02-09-76 Council Meeting Minutes

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REGULAR MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 1976 NEW BUSINESS CONTINUED Council President Parent said he would like to entertain a motion to suspend the rules that says the chair cannot participate in the discussion, without leaving the chair. Councilman Taylor made such a motion, seconded by Councilman Horvath. Councilman Adams called for a roll call, however, Councilman Parent said they did not need a roll call vote on this. The motion did not carry. Councilman Taylor said that he did believe in due process of law. He said the situation was really relatively simple, there were five people involved, either as participants or witnesses to the incident, and these five people are Councilmen Kopczynski, Miller, Horvath, Dombrowski and Taylor. He said he would be extremely happy to wrap up this entire affair tonight, tomorrow or in the next few days, he said he would like to invite the world to watch, but there are only five people involved and those five people can shed light on the affair. He said as far as the incident is concerned, Councilman Parent did not hear it, Councilman Chris Adams did not hear it, Councilman Serge was in the hospital, and Councilman Szymkowiak was out of the room. He said he would like to go on record as saying the only thing he has asked for is simply to having some kind of a vehicle where these five people could give testimonly, and that he was perfectly willing to have it done in public. He said he could not see where anyone would object to that, and he did not feel he was being unfair to those five people. He said he would like the truth told without waiting fifteen months, and that we would like to have that vehicle. He said he thought that it was up to the attorneys to help the council find that vehicle. Councilman Szymkowiak said he felt that somebody was making a mountain out of a mole hill. He said he had been on the council for many years. He said the problem did not start at the caucus meeting it started before that meeting. He said there were words exchanged like happens among men. He said he felt the citizens of South Bend deserve the best from their council, that men act like men and take it as men. He said their responsibility was to serve the people and the city to the best of their ability and to do the job, not be here like a bunch of kids. He said if it gets too hot in the kitchen, get out. Councilman Horvath said he would like a legal opinion as to whether or not they had investigative) powers. Thomas Brunner, City Attorney, said that it was their opinion that the council did not have the right. Kathy Cekanski, Council Attorney, said you do have the power and the authority, however, the vehicle is missing to carry out that authority. She said you do have the right to discipline a member, and you have the authority of expulsion, should it be your overall objective Councilman Taylor asked if there would be anything illegal in submitting a report to the council reviewing the incident. Thomas Brunner, City Attorney asked if this would be a public report. Councilman Taylor said he had in mind a report that would be made public. Thomas Brunner, asked the purpose of such a report. Councilman Taylor said it would be to clarify what happened. Thomas Brunner, City Attorney, said we indicated that expulsion is specifically covered under the statutes, and it would be "his opinion that the council would have the right to proceed. However, if other than expulsion was comtemplated, and if the council desired to achieve any objective other than expulsion, they were running the risk of exercising authority outside their jurisdic- tion. Councilman Dombrowski, said that in other words any of us can do anything we want in caucu and nothing can be done. Kathy Cekanski, Council Attorney, indicated that the council was governed by rules of decorum. She said it would be her suggestion that an appropriate ordinance be drafted to cover any such incidents in the future. Thomas Brunner, said he concurred with this. Council President Parent said he would entertain a motion to allow about fifteen or twenty minutes for the public to speak on the issue. Councilman Adams made such a motion, seconded by Councilman Szymkowiak. The motion carried. Mr. Roman Kowalski, 802 Birchwood, said he was in full agreement with the city attorney, and he did not think there was too much of a chance for them to proceed with what they wanted to do. He said he did not feel the council would be justified in investigating another member. He said he thought the place this should have been taken care of was at the caucus meeting. He said the council must have some type of rules, and it was up to the chairman to take care of this. He said he felt the council was wasting the _taxpayers time and money. Councilman Miller said he thought it was clear from what has happened that there is a need to revamp the rules. He said Roberts Rules are not the normal rules being used today. He said it was obvious the council rules were inadequate and he would stand on the resolution. Councilman Miller asked if the motion is withdrawn, would it be proper to reconsider the resolution. He said he would be in favor of having the motion withdrawn, especially if the resolution could be considered at this meeting. Council President Parent said in his opinion the motion could be withdrawn. Thomas Brunner, City Attorney, said he had no opinion on the subject. Council President Parent said he would not withdraw the motion, and Councilman Miller reminded him it was not his motion. Council President Parent asked Vice President Dombrowski to take the chair. Council President Parent said he had requested an investigation of the incident, after there had been a lot of discussion on it in the press. He said he proposed the investigation in order to bring the matter to a head, in a fair manner by due process. He said he was unaware that the council did not have the rules adopted that would provide for due process. He said his intentio was to get the matter resolved as quickly as possible. He said that apparently the council coul entertain a resolution to actually expel one of its members, it seems the council has a legal right to do that. He said he wanted to follow the advice of the attorneys. He said the right for the investigation has opened a number of areas we will have to work out. He said the pro- ceedings and the incident is very unusual, and that the council would have the power of censure without investigation. He said he would like to ask the council attorney if his interpretation of the memos was correct, in that although the council has implied powers to conduct an inves- tigation and chastise one of its members, or expel one of its members, in fact because there is no vehicle there is no way it can look into this as a council. Kathy Cekanski, Council Attorney said she would agree with that at this point. Council President Parent asked if the council could censure one of its members without an investigation, or take any type of punishment. Kathy Cekanski said that censure was referred to in both the Municipal Code and Roberts Rules, however, she was unclear as to what its effect was in either book, since it was not defined. Council President Parent asked if there was anything open to the council so they could get this resolved. Kathy Cekanski said that anything the council would do that was not in an official capacity, would be on a purely civil matter, therefore, it would open each one of you to the possibility of a suit. She said she would caution all of the council members from anything in that area. Councilman Dombrowski asked Mr. Brunner if he had anything to add. Thomas Brunner, City Attorney, said that he had already indicated they had the remedy, and that is expulsion.