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first affect of this experiment, or the first stage of my replacement. In that case, then the experimentation is a relevant consideration. There's some confusion there. If your thought really is a solution then the C ofA should be more detailed in terms ofyour true intentions. DeFrees: The most the important part of the experiment is not the thermal, it's the aesthetic, because... Klusczinski: But as you said it's going to fail because it's not to exactly compare to what we had. That's very subjective. It's not going to look better when you put a sill on top of a sill then one that is designed and built and installed right on the property there. DeFrees: You talk about absolute. But we don't know the degree of savings. I'd much rather have the window look exactly as it does right now, but when we have to make a decision between the two... Klusczinski: And what I'd say is that I don't'see any basis in the guidebook for what we're trying to decide as far as the preservation of a structure that has any leniency towards scientific analysis that could turn into a precedent for every other window in that house. I'm not sure that we're prepared to make that argument or that case tonight because that's certainly something that could come out of this. It's loaded. And also for the record, interject a couple things that were not part of the application items here within... well, yes and no, in the Chapin Park guidebook on page 81, it says 'in the case of structures located within the district which are designated individually as landmarks, the most restrictive guidelines shall apply'. That's very simple. Then when you go in Group B standards, which apply to 710 Park Avenue it says on page I that you're required to maintain the building as is, and if possible returned to original. Two very absolute statements and we're faced with this scientific analysis which is a little bit smoke and mirrors beyond what we're supposed to be focused on for historic aesthetics. Zeiger: My question is about the unit itself. Is this a clad unit that you're proposing to put in? DeFrees: We're proposing a clad unit, but we would consider wood. A painted wood window. Klusczinski: But the window on the C ofA is clad? Petitioner responded, but did not approach the microphone, so comments are unintelligible. Zeiger: I'm asking a question so I understand what I'm looking at here. Before it was clad. I'm just asking what the application is for. So the application is for a painted wood unit. I'm a little confused though about how long this unit will be in for. In your presentation you said that in case someone decides to restore this, these pieces parts will be saved, so that says to me that this isn't an experiment and this is a permanent installation that you're asking for. So how long is this window intended to be in for experimental purposes. Enderle: As soon as we have reliable results we'll make another application. The proposal is, and I think that this is a pragmatic way to proceed that doesn't pre-suppose anything. Look at both dimensions, if we can find out that both windows look almost the same we don't have to say that they are completely different, but aesthetically, there's no big difference. This is a very... Klusczinski: But you're judge and jury over something that you're asking our permission for. Enderle: The only difference is in the picture here. Zeiger: I object to the extra sills, I objected to the extra sills last year because you do notice it, it sits back from the edge from the original and you can see the new sill. Is this a permanent installation or is this really an experiment? When you takeout the windows, how are you going to, in three weeks, put it back in when we don't approve of the change? You're going to put it back? Enderle: Sure. Hostetler: When we were discussing this with Mr. DeFrees and Dr. Enderle, the idea was to fully restore one of the wood windows so that it's functioning properly, sealing, and f tting into it's frame properly to see just how much energy is being lost. An appreciable difference? Zeiger: Maybe this is under conversations of the-Commission, and I would like to pursue that a bit more. Oh, and why not have sash packs instead of an entire window with an extra sill and a jamb and all that? DeFrees: I'm not sure what you're talking about. Zeiger: Kolbe and Kolbe and Marvin and others make a system to replace just the sash that don't' require sills and jambs and other things with a spring loaded system so that you can 13