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exactly match the sash that are in place but they're double hung thermal glazed. They don't require the sill, or the jamb changing. It's a sash pack. This, what you're proposing does shrink it down. DeFrees: No it doesn't. The one thing that could be done is to alter the sill, but I think that's... Zeiger: You're talking about routing out the sill. That's my question, why these sash kits weren't considered. DeFrees: We did look at one vinyl unit, but... Zeiger: I'm not proposing a vinyl window. Enderle: The proposal that we're proposing now it gives more stability to the whole thing than just to have 2 sashes, and that is the basic point. And it doesn't make the daylight smaller, we measured in my letter. The replacement window is almost the same surface as, and that's why the proposal is not the final thing, I'm very interested to know how that 's practical. If it is possible to do it, you know, then we can say yes, and if it raises too many questions then we can talk. When I went to see Catherine and Wayne, my proposal was just to have one replacement window. And they explained that it would be meaningful to have this one restored and have them side by side. So we know both and we can get a realistic picture to compare it. Klusczinski; Not until there's another storm window to compliment ... Enderle: The storm window question in the bay window area is perfectly clear- it's not possible to have exterior storm windows, it's never been it's not possible, or inside, you have not the authority to force me to put in inside storm windows. Klusczinski: But that doesn't mean that it's not a solution. Enderle: For me, it's not a solution. Klusczinski: I also had a question for you directly and that was, I have 3 C of A's for the windows at different times: 2006-0908A, 2006-1005A and the one we're seeing tonight. Just for my satisfaction, did Professor Enderle ever pay the processing fee for these? Hostetler: Uh, yes he did. I have a receipt right here. Klusczinski: For the one tonight? Hostetler: For the one tonight. Klusczinski: So we have an outstanding balance of $20 for those that we've already heard? Ok, I just wanted to know. Enderle: I asked to pay $10 every time and I was told that this is part of the original proposal so I don't have to pay, but if you want my $20,1 can do it tonight. Klusczinski: I was very happy that you paid tonight, but I was also under the impression that without paying for both of the original ones last year that you may not have again tonight. I wanted to see if there's a problem with staff or something else that we needed to attend to. Riley: Can I make a comment and I apologize... Klusczinski: Only if it's a question, because I have to open public hearing. Any other questions for the petitioner? Hearing none. I open public hearing. Any member of the public wishing to speaking in favor of the public? DeFrees: I would. Klusczinski: You're a representative of the petitioner. DeFrees: Yes, but I'm not the petitioner. Ujdak: Give him 3 minutes. DeFrees: I'd really most like to hear what all of you think of this kind of situation and what you think of the future of our historic buildings. Zeiger: Didn't we address that, because I have a response to that. Because there are studies out there that you can make these windows thermally efficient -US Dept of Energy, Homebuilders Associations, we have that data. So, the question of can we make them thermally efficient has been answered and it's yes. DeFrees: With alterations. Zeiger: No, with an internal storm window. Which thepetitioner doesn't want. All I'm doing is addressing your question. There are ways to make them more thermally efficient without ripping them out. I understand your position on the interior storms and we don't have anyplace to go in the interior, but yes we can make them more efficient. If you're about thermal efficiency that's 14