RM 09-16-77 - Laserfiche WebLink

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7. FLOORIDISCUSSION (CONT'D Mrs. Allen asked what would happen if the downtown project didn't go, where would the money come from to pay back to HUD. Mr. Brownell indicated that we dic not owe HUD anything that we owed the trust company ... and that the financial settlement in 1978 would pay off the project notes. Mr. Anderson asked who paid them off and where did the money come from and Mr. Brownell indicated that the Commission paid off the notes and that the money would come from crants that HUD held back from us. Mr. Anderson asked if there was any guarantee that involved the City of South Bend to make up any deficits that night arise? Mr. Brownell added that he didn't think so ... Mr. Anderson added that "while you may not think so Mr. Brownell is it not a fact that if this program goes through, the City has to guarantee to make up any deficits and over-costs of the project ?" Mr. Brownell answered "you are talking about another thing, we are talking about the close out of Project R -66, a Section 112 B Financial Settlement." Mr. Anderson asked "what were the previous over - uns on our earlier projects that the City had to pick up ?" Mr. Brownell didn't know of any. Mr. Anderson said "you don't know of any, would an audit reveal such costs ?" Mr. Brownell said an audit would. Mr. Anderson said " were ou ever audited ? "... Mr. Brownell said we have to have an audit every two y ars...Mr. Anderson asked "were you ever audited specifically for the purpose of determining the costs that the City had to pick up ?" Mr. Brownell added that if there were, the audit would reveal it. Mr. Anderson asked "if those records existed, are they available to the public ? "...Mr. Brownell said yes they existed, and he didn't know if they would be public information. Mr. A derson said "if I asked for them would you refuse to let me see them..." Mr. Brownell said he did not know the answer to that ... Mr. Anderson said "I would constitute that to be a refusal if you don't know the answer." Mr. Brown Ell said "you can constitute anything you want I don't really care what you constitute." Mr. Anderson said "I know you don't really care..." Mr. Brown Ell added he didn't like Mr. Anderson's attitude... that you question us as though you felt we were dishonest. We have been audited on every project, everything has been taken care of and there are no problems. There has been an au it on this present project, and it was just accepted September 2 by HUD.. an audit by John Dobson and Associates. Mr. Anderson asked if Mr. Dobson's audit included the determination of cost over -runs on prior projects...Mr. Nimtz interrupted, "No, this audit was just on this project, now let's settle this thing, Dick, if you want anything give Mr. Butler a letter of what you want and it will be determined if it can be furnished to you. Many of these projects have been close out and I presume records are in storage. We don't have the space up here to hold everything, HUD has complete records on everything...just give Mr. B tier a letter and if it can be legally given to you we will give it to you." Mr. A derson answered by saying that "firstly, I don't believe the public should have to give a letter requesting service, I think the public would be very interested and it would be a matter of good politics on your part to provide information to the public without written demand, or court order for them..." Mr. N mtz, said "Dick, there is no need for a court order . now just listen to me .. if you want anything give Mr. Butler a letter of what you want and we wi 1 give it to you if we can legally give it to you. I don't want you walki g in and verbally saying give us this, give us that, there has to be some -ecord of what has been asked for. It is as simple as that." Mr. Anderson added "if your lawyers indicate that I cannot get it I will not get it..." Mr. N mtz answered "I presume so if the attorneys say we cannot legally give this to you we can't. I don't know all the regulations and that is why we have Mr. Butler, although we differ politically, I respect his opinion and so far there has never been anything told me wrong. Mr. Anderson added... "we will hold fhat in abeyance." (11)