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11 CITY OF SOUTH BEND OFFICE OF THE CLERK <br /> Committee Chair White requested Dr.Mueller to follow up with Ms.Kesim outside of the meeting. <br /> Bill Dunn, 1620 Southwood Avenue, stated, Listening to this and looking back over the number <br /> of years it has been discussed, I think James and Tim made a good point about changing our stance <br /> on how to use TIF funds. Now it is a more aggressive approach to abatements. I end up with two <br /> (2) questions. One(1)is what metrics, if any, are we keeping to tell us of the success? I know that <br /> is a complicated question just based on tax values, assessments and what not. But what are the <br /> metrics that tell us whether or not we have achieved our goal? Secondly, assuming we had <br /> something like that in place, have we ever done a project that we wish we hadn't done? <br /> Dr. Mueller replied, I will start with the last one (1) and it is probably yes. I don't know exactly <br /> off hand but yes, absolutely,there are projects that don't wear as well with time. I think sometimes <br /> we go back and maybe we should have known better but with the information at the time it seemed <br /> like a good thing. <br /> Mr. Dunn interjected, And that goes back to my question about the metrics. One (1) of the most <br /> damning statements in the world of investments is, gee, it seemed like a good idea at the time. But <br /> when we figure out that maybe it wasn't a good idea, it seems like the value in that is to learn the <br /> lesson and where it went wrong from where we anticipated. Now that doesn't necessarily mean <br /> reading the tea leaves on the next deal,but there have to be some lessons learned from this process. <br /> Dr. Mueller replied, There are good metrics. We talked about property tax and when we look at <br /> development we look at return on a project. We can look at that. The challenge is, in our current <br /> system, we don't have any control over the assessments. So there are other things we can track in <br /> the annual tax abatement report. We track what we can there in terms of what was promised and <br /> what was delivered. <br /> Mr. Dunn interjected, But see,that would tell us. The fact we have no control tells us,well, we are <br /> making our estimates now. We should look ahead for, what, four (4), five (5), six (6), ten (10) <br /> years under abatements. Surely there is something that would tell us whether or not the assessments <br /> panned and their portion would be more conservative or more transient. <br /> Dr. Mueller replied, Yeah, we can run those numbers but the assessments are all over the place. If <br /> it was predictable we could adjust to that but it is not obvious how it will turn out. <br /> Ms. Kesim interjected, I have one(1) more. <br /> Committee Chair White replied, Ok I will let you ask but Councilmember McBride has to go back <br /> to work and she has some questions too. <br /> Ms. Kesim stated, One (1) more comment. In reading the reports we mentioned with Ball State, <br /> Purdue and all that, I don't feel like the City has been good at separating TIF and abatement. They <br /> recommend that you don't give abatement to TIF areas because you are cutting yourself off at the <br /> knees. Dr. Varner pointed out sixty-four(64) abatements that at zero (0) dollars for ten(10) years <br /> cuts us off at the knees for ten(10)years.The abatements are way too extensive and they shouldn't <br /> be given in a TIF area. You either give one (1) or the other. Give TIF dollars or abatements but <br /> don't give both. Then there is the Enterprise Zone. I really feel there needs to be a better tracking <br /> EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY INNOVATION INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT <br /> 455 County-City Building 227W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend,Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f 574.235.9173 TTD574.235.5567 www.southbendin.gov <br /> 21 <br />