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The October 17, 2001 joint committee meeting of the Public Works and Property Vacation
Committee and the Health & Public Safety Committee was called to order by Public Works and
Property Vacation Committee Chairperson David Varner at 9:35 am in the Council Informal
Meeting Room.
Persons in attendance included Council Members: Kelly, Varner, Pfeifer and Kirsits; Citizen
Member Khadijah Muhammad, Citizen Member Isabel Gonzalez, Mayor Stephen J. Luecke, Police
Chief Larry Bennett, Fire Chief Luther Taylor, Assistant Chief Bert Prawat, Director of Public
Works Gary Gilot, City Engineer Carl Littrell;Mark Catanzarite,John Sabinash of the Zimmerman
Design Group of Milwaukee, Wisconsin; Joseph Zwietzynski, Amy Lesko Hrivnak, Victor
Saavedra, Bruce Hudson and Stephen P. Kromkowski of DLZ;Terry Bland of the §6O0 Vent(
trVibUttt, and Kathleen Cekanski-Farrand, Council Attorney.
Council Member Varner thanked everyone coming to the joint committee meeting which was called
to receive the first of a series of updates on the Municipal Services Facility.
Mayor Luecke thanked the Council for the opportunity to discuss the most appropriate facility for
the police and fire departments. The Mayor noted that this topic has been "on the table since he
was on the Council in 1988". It is hoped that the facility would meet the needs of the City of
South Bend for the next 30-40 years. There are many possibilities with regard to the appropriate
concentration on the current site as well as consideration of a new site for the fire department.
Mayor Luecke also noted that concerns and updates on Fire Station#2 and Fire Station#9 would
also be discussed today.
Fach Committee Member was given a copy of the October 2001 "South Bend Municipal Service
Facility Renovation--Program and Schematic Design" report prepared by DLZ Indiana. LLC and
the Zimmerman Design Group (copy attached), as well as a one-page summary setting forth the
"Agenda for briefing the South Bend Common Council"(copy attached).
Gary Gilot, Public Works Director, then reviewed the aerial photograph of the site and highlighted
problems which focus on trying to put"10 lbs into a 5 pound bag", parking problems and security
issues. He then introduced representatives from the Zimmerman Design Group and DLZ Indiana,
LLC who have been hired by the City for this project.
Mr. Steve Kromkowski of DLZ noted that the process as been inclusive of the staff and the
administration in both the police and fire departments. He noted that a survey was sent to both
departments, and that representatives from both departments toured other facilities in order to
properly develop a program. Square footage and spacing needs were evaluated in order to
maximize efficiency and utilization of space. The proposals represent a reduction on the police side
of 25 % and a reduction on the fire side of 15 %.
Mr. John Sabinash of the Zimmerman Design Group noted that currently the police department is
very open and is basically a 30 year old structure. Security is one of the key issues. When
reviewing the fire department, he has asked people to "think outside the box" so that the needs of
the community would be addressed for the next 20 to 50 years. Mr. Zimmerman then summarized
portions of the report. He noted that many of the police services that are currently being
outsourced would be brought back into the police department. The planning includes the
Joint Committee Meeting of the
Public Works and Property Vacation Committee and the Health and Public Safety Committee
October 17, 2001
Page 2
divergence in the work force in light of women; addresses the image of both departments with
regard to their facilities; the wellness of employees and their quality of life; and service based
programs.
In response to a question from Council Member Kirsits it was noted that the drawing is not
complete since it does not depict the area for special fire apparatus however it is accounted for on
page 15. Mr. Zimmerman noted that the gross square footage will generate the budget. He then
reviewed the program analysis.
Council President Pfeifer inquired whether the City and Memorial Hospital work together with
regard to the evidence in rape cases. Chief Bennett noted that the chain of custody is protected and
that such evidence as well as infectious disease concerns must be developed and more involved.
Chief Taylor noted that he sees the fire department as being a training magnet with adequate
classrooms as well as offsite training in burn towers, etc.
Isabelle Gonzalez noted the ongoing need for such training facilities as a regional level. She also
noted the need for training facilities which would enable training for public works employees also
with cross-training possibilities. In response to a question from Ms. Gonzalez it was noted that a
separate ventilation system is proposed at the shooting range which would meet all OSHA
requirements.
The six (6) options were then briefly reviewed by Mr. Steve Kromkowski. He noted that Option#
4 is the preferred option and calls for the police department taking over the current site and
relocating the fire department.
Council Member Kelly inquired where the fire department would be located. He also noted that a
training facility and the potential revenue stream that it would create as a regional training center has
been discussed for many years by the city. He noted that the City has a fiduciary duty but it should
do the right thing so that the facilities will meet the needs of the city for the next 50 years. He
hoped that the City would not"nickel and dime this project to death".
Mr. Steve Kromkowski stated that 6,800 square feet have been identified for training and that 5-8
acres would be explored for a site. He noted that a burn building and other training would have
high noise levels, along with live burns and all such items would be taken into consideration.
Police Chief Larry Bennett noted that currently the City pays overtime for officers to travel to the
FOP's shooting area as well as rent to use the facility. He sees a savings by having the shooting
range as a part of the police facility.
The Council Attorney noted that Warren Township Fire Department has expressed an interest in
having their firefighters trained in South Bend. Additionally, Michigan City currently sends its
firefighters to Illinois at a cost of approximately$ 2,000 per firefighter for training.
Dr. Varner asked Mr. Gilot if he utilized"value engineering"on this project.
Mr. Gilot noted that his assessment did utilized value engineering without cutting effectiveness.
Joint Committee Meeting of the
Public Works and Property Vacation Committee and the Health and Public Safety Committee
October 17, 2001
Page 3
Ms. Gonzalez inquired whether a revenue study had been conducted and inquired about its impact.
Mayor Luecke stated that this project is a"work in progress".
Council President Pfeifer inquired about wellness including mental wellness, stress, etc as part of
the training programs and facilities. She stressed the need for trained mental health professionals
and social workers in addition to Police and Fire Chaplains and adequate space for such
operations.
The Council Attorney inquired about the impact on 911 Communications since in the past when the
issue of separating the police and fire operations, this issue was raised and used as a reason not to
separate such operations. The Council Attorney also suggested that perhaps a questionnaire be
sent to all of the surrounding fire departments including volunteer fire departments to see if they
would participate in a regional training center in South Bend if the City had such facilities.
Chief Taylor stated that this issue has been discussed and that currently it is more a matter of
convenience then necessity. He noted that an option to move Communications was concerned but
was considered too expensive, therefore option # 4 includes this operation to remain as a part of
the Police operations.
Mr. Sabinash noted that separating the departments would not negatively impact responding to
emergency calls.
Chief Bennett stressed the need to have as secure an operation as possible and especially the 911
Communications facilities. Chief Bennett also stressed on the buildings affect the morale of the
departments. He noted that with Community Oriented Policing that more public comes to the
department and space must include those operations. There are five (5) police academies carried
out each year and training is paramount. The building will also affect recruitment. He noted that
he has been in the same building for 33 years from a 1st Class Patrol Officer to now as Chief. He
noted that need for night training operations also and the appropriate facilities to carry out such
training.
Assistant Chief Prawat noted that several communities were visited including Milwaukee. The
reductions did not reduce efficiency.
In response to a question from Dr. Varner, Police Chief Bennett stated that there would be a
savings in overtime from the $ 50,000 currently spent since training could take place while
working with a special effect on the midnight shift officers.
Dr. Varner requested that there be regular updates from the Administration on this project as we
move through the various phases.
Mr. Gilot then discussed Station#2. He noted that there has been significant growth on the south
and northwest portions of the city which also impacts the relocation of Station#2. He noted that
the 1996 study conducted by DLZ made recommendations on Station#9 also.
Bruce Hudson of DLZ made the presentation on Station#2 and showed a series of maps with
Joint Committee Meeting of the
Public Works and Property Vacation Committee and the Health and Public Safety Committee
October 17, 2001
Page 4
regard to Station Nos. 2,3 and 9. He noted that NFPA 1710 addresses the new time response and
the 1.75 miles; and that ISO addresses the 1.5 mile response. Typically, emergency response
vehicles may traveling 15 mph over the posted speed limits taking into consideration weather
conditions, traffic, cornering and turning. GIS maps are also being utilized in the process of
determining the best locations. Station # 9 has a simulated location at Greenlawn and Wall; and
Station Nos 2 and 3 as anywhere within the"red zones"depicted on the maps. Mr. Hudson noted
that in light of the possible relocation of Station# 1 that they need to step back on the relocation of
Station#2.
Mr. Gilot noted that in light of the growth zones that re-evaluation of needs as they relate to Station
# 12 and Station# 11 may be in order. The costs of having another Engine Company would also
be considered.
Council Member Kirsits who works at Station #2 noted that it is in a good location currently but
that the facility needs significant upgrades. It was noted that anywhere within the red zone would
meet the ISO requirements of 1.5 miles.
The Council Attorney suggested that if the 1996 Fire Study is updated that the copy maintained in
the City Clerk's Office which the City Council utilizes be updated also.
Mayor Luecke noted that currently the City has not engaged anyone to update that study, however
in light of what Council Member Kirsits called "the domino effect on all of the fire stations and
their locations" that an update may be in order.
Dr. Varner inquired about combining Station#2 and the main station into a single station.
Fire Chief Luther Taylor stated that that idea would generate a lot of discussion. He noted that he
is unaware of anyone putting two (2) Engine Companies together. Dr. Varner noted that no one
has ruled this possibility out.
Council President Pfeifer inquired whether Station#2 meets the physical accommodations needed
today. Council Member Kirsits noted that it is in a great location but is a poor building. She also
inquired whether the concerns of the neighborhoods are taken into consideration when determining
fire station locations.
Fire Chief Taylor stated that when Station # 10 was proposed that there were a series of
neighborhood meetings as well as surveys utilized which resulted in a good process.
Mayor Luecke noted that Memorial does not have immediate plans for this area but would land
bank it for the future.
Council Member Kirsits noted that the acquisition costs of$ 50,000 appears to be low.
Council Member Varner thanked everyone for coming to the meeting and looked forward to further
updates on each of this topics as they move toward the next phase.
There being no further business to come before the joint Committees, Dr. Varner adjourned the
meeting at 11:45 a.m.
Joint Committee Meeting of the
Public Works and Property Vacation Committee and the Health and Public Safety Committee
October 17, 2001
Page 5
Respectfully submitted,
Council Member David Varner, Chairperson
Public Works and Property Vacation Committee
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