HomeMy WebLinkAbout01-06-95 Health & Public Safety Commfttts Zeport:
Health arriPublic Safety Committee
ZO die QCOmmon Council of the City of boutb Vtntr:
The January 6, 1995 meeting of the Health and Public Safety Committee was called
to order by its Chairperson, Council Member Tom Zakrzewski at 4:05 P.M.in the Council
informal meeting room.
Persons in attendance included Council Members Coleman, Slavinskas,
Zakrzewski, Kelly, Puzzello, Ladewski, Luecke, and Duda; Chief Luther Taylor, Chief
Ron Marciniak, Corporal Tom Leszcz, Sgt. Dave Hecklinski, Don Porter, and Kathleen
Cekanski-Farrand.
Council Member Zakrzewski noted that the Health and Public Safety Committee for
1995 is composed of Council Members Kelly, Puzzello, and Slavinskas with himself as
Chairperson.
Council Member Zakrzewski then called upon Council President Ladewski to
present Bill No. 121-94.
Council President Ladewski noted that he introduced the Bill so that it would reflect
policies which the Police and Fire departments would implement with regard to retirement
gift policies. Fire fighters upon 20 years of service would receive their helmets upon
retirement in good standing and Police officers with 20 years of service who retire in good
standing would receive the weapons which are issued to them by the City.
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Council Member Coleman then reviewed the substitute Bill (attached) which he
stated presents an alternative to honor members of the Police and Fire Departments. He
stated that he hoped that there would be a consensus for this as an alternative.He noted that
this is not a discussion of what should or should not be given but what City Government
should or should not be doing as a practice.He stated that the City should not be in the gun
give away program or the gun sale business and that he believes that it is inappropriate in
principle.He further noted that he voted against the current policy in 1988 which passed by
a 5 to 4 margin. He stated that he believes that his alternative is fair and equitable and that
he would appreciate support of it.
Council President Ladewski then provided a copy of a memorandum prepared by
the Council Attorney dated January 6th, 1995 (copy attached) which highlighted the fact
that the Indiana State Police, the Alcoholic Beverage Law Enforcement Officers, and the
Conservation Officers receive their service weapons upon retirement after 20 years of
service to the State of Indiana.
Corporal Tom Leszcz, the President of the Fraternal Order of Police stated that in
response to Council Member Coleman's Bill that he took opposition that all that an officer
is worth is $700.00 after taxes upon retirement. He stated that the Police want their guns
upon retirement. Sgt. Dave Hecklinski, the secretary of the FOP voiced the same concern
on behalf of the FOP.
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Committee Report
Health and Public Safety Committee
January 6, 1995
• Page 2
Council Member Slavinskas stated that the argument is not over$700.00 but rather
one of fairness. He stated that he would prefer that the Chief's have an option with regard
to giving of obsolete equipment and that he hoped that through the process that something
appropriate would be given upon retirement.
In response to a question raised by Council Member Zakrzewski, Chief Marciniak
noted that the cost of the guns which are currently being used by the Police Department
were $658.00 with a trade-in. Chief Marciniak noted that the Common Council has been
pro-public safety and pro-police for a long period of time. He noted that this is an
emotional issue and that in some respects it is also a sentimental issue since officers depend
upon their equipment as a matter of life and death and that it is not a matter of money. He
stated that he understands Council Member Coleman's position however believes that since
the State of Indiana sees no problem in giving their officers their service weapons upon
retirement that the City of South Bend should continue giving their service weapons also
upon retirement. He stated that the men and women that work for the South Bend Police
Department are constantly trained with the handling care and discharge of the weapons and
therefore safety should not be an issue.He stated that the Common Council made the right
discussion in 1988 and that it should be continued. He stated that he believes that the large
majority of the Police Department would prefer the weapon which they have used in the
line of duty.
Council Member Luecke noted that there is a difference between registration and a
permit to carry a gun. Chief Marciniak noted that the State issues a a lifetime permit to
officers upon 20 years of service after retirement.
Sgt. Dave Hecklinski stated that part of his duties include the issuance of gun
permits. He stated that typically approximately 500 to 600 gun permits are issued but in
1994,797 gun permits were issued with many if not most of the individuals receiving such
permits not being trained at all into how to use such weapons.
Chief Marciniak noted that in his discussions with the City Controller that between
16 to 20 city employees retire each year.
Chief Taylor stated that he does not want fire helmets stacking up in the fire stations
each year. Since the City purchased the new helmets as a result of OSHA regulations he
believes that this is a fitting and appropriate retirement gift to Fire fighters upon 20 or more
years of service to the City.
Council Member Kelly appreciated the thoughts and ideas set forth by Council
Member Coleman. He stated that officers are well trained and that he would prefer status
quo by permitting officers to retain their service weapons upon retirement.He believes that
an overall gift policy for retiring members of the Police and Fire Departments is proper and
appropriate. He also noted that the Gun Control Ordinance which he authored required
training and that he shares the same concern that Sgt. Hecklinski noted earlier in this area.
Council Member Zakrzewski stated that he was that sponsor of the 1988 Ordinance and his
position has not changed.In discussions with then Corporal Richard Redwine it was noted
that police moral in 1988 was low and that it was not a matter of dollars and cents.
PJCommittee Report
Health ry and Public Safety Committee
anua 6, 1995
age 3
Sentiment with regard to giving a officer his or her service weapon was the key
driving force then and that he did not in any way mean to neglect the Fire Department back
in 1988. He supports the current Bill and requests that the Council Members support
Council President Ladewski's version of the Bill.
Council Member Puzzello stated that a service weapon and a fire helmet are unique
gifts and they are perceived through the years as life saving devices. She stated that she
could not go along with a $1,000.00 retirement bonus since there are sentimental values
involved as well as emotional issues involved with regard to the closeness of the equipment
used by the individual Fire fighters and the Police Officers. She stated that because of the
respect that she has for the Police and Fire Department personnel that the service weapons
and fire helmets are an appropriate and fitting tribute to these hard working men and
women. She further stated that most of the Council Members would not trade positions
with any person working in the Fire and Police Departments and that these gifts are
appropriate for people who sacrifice so much for the City of South Bend and its residents.
Council Member Luecke noted that the helmets are probably obsolete upon
retirement. He observed that he thought during the appropriation for the new guns that the
Council was advised that they would not be given. He noted that he voted for the Bill in
1988 and that the strongest argument was the attachment to the weapon as being symbolic.
In light of officers having other weapons he did not believe that the argument of disarming
an officer upon retirement was valid. He also voiced concern whether there was a history
of Police Officers being pursued after retirement by individuals once they have left
institutions of incarceration. Chief Marciniak noted that in today's society you never know
what is going to happen. He questioned whether disabling the weapon would be a possible
compromise. Chief Marciniak noted that in no way did he intend to mislead the Common
Council with regard to the appropriation process and that the trade in value of the guns was
always a part of the contract.He further noted that before 1988 an armorer retro-fitted each
revolver so that it could be reissued to new officers. He further noted that the reason for the
City of South Bend changing to semi-automatics as the primary City issue was a safety
reason.
Council President Ladewski noted that he attends many of the Police retiree lunches
and almost all of those members carry a weapon with them. He stated that from discussions
that he does not believe that money would be appropriate as a retirement gift, and that of the
individuals who have spoken to him that the gun would be preferred in light of the safety
reasons involved. He stated that if the State of Indiana is in the gun give away program and
have not had problems, that the City of South Bend should maintain its policy which has
been in effect for over 6 years in this area. He stated that the issue is one of responsibility
and that the officers of the Police Department are responsible individuals. He further noted
that he did not want money to cause someone to retire.
Corporal Leszcz noted that the City of Elkhart policy is to allow their officers to
receive their service weapons upon retirement upon retirement also. Council Member
Slavinskas stated that he agrees with many of the remarks of Corporal Leszcz and Chief
Marcinick. He stated however that he is bothered by the disparity between the proposed
gifts to the retiring Police Officers and Fire fighters and,that he was looking at a win-win
position.He would like to give more if at all possible.
Committee report
Health and Public Safety Committee
January 6, 1995
page 4
Both Council Member Ladew ski and Council Member Duda questioned where the
$1,000.00 figure came from. Council Member Coleman stated that in fairness to the
consideration that the Council should focus either on whether the amount is $700.00 or
$1,000.00 if it was to be considered at all.
Council Member Duda stated that the option of the value of the weapon or money
should be one that is proposed. She further proposed that an axe should be given along
with the helmet. Chief Taylor noted that an ax is not given to a Fire fighter as part of the
department issue.
Sgt.Dave Hecklinski stated that he would not be in favor of the option.
Council Member Coleman thanked the Committee for the opportunity to present his
substitute Bill.He stated that he proposed the substitute as a matter of principle and stated
that in 120 years there have been no exceptions that the gun belongs to the citizens and that
the symbol should be the badge of preserving and protecting the citizens and not the gun.
He further noted that anyone can carry a gun but few can wear the badge.
Following further discussion, Council Member made a motion, seconded by
Council Member Kelly that original Bill No. 12-94 proposed by Council President
Ladewski be recommended favorably to Council. Council Member Slavinskas noted that he
has received between 18 to 20 calls on this issue.He further noted that in his district he has
a high concentration of retirees.He stated that although his position is somewhere between
the two Bills currently considered, that in light of the consensus received who have
contacted him that he would be voting in favor of the original if required to choose today.
Following further discussion the Committee then voted by a 4 to 0 margin in favor
of the Bill.
The Council Attorney stated that if the Common Council acts favorably on original
Bill No. 121-94 at next Monday's Council meeting, that the Council should consider an
amendment to the Bill making it retro-active so that any Fire fighter or Police officer who
has retired since the policy was put on hold that the Chiefs of the respective Departments
could give the appropriate retirement gift. Chief Marciniak and Chief Taylor agreed with
this recommendation.
Following further discussion the meeting was adjourned at 5:15 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Council Member Tom Zakrzewski
Chairperson,Health and Public Safety Committee
Attachments