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HomeMy WebLinkAboutJanuary 2008V NOTICE OF MEETING OF, HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND AND ST. JOSEPH COUNTY Notice is hereby given that an executive session of the Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend and St. Joseph County (the "Commission") will be held on January zz, 2oo8 in the Conference Room of the Office of the Historic Preservation Commission at I25 S. Lafayette, South Bend, Indiana 46601 commencing at 5:30 p.m. The purpose of the meeting will be to discuss matters pursuant to Indiana Code 5- 14-I.5-6.I(b)l1o)(C)• Dated: January 16, zoo8 Historic Preservation Commission Of South Bend and St. Joseph County Timothy S. Klusczinski, President From: "Timothy S. Klusczinski" <tsk@myVine.com> To: "'Catherine Hostetler"' <CHOSTETL@co.st-joseph.in.us> Date: 1/23/2008 11:12 AM Subject: RE: Special Meeting for HPC Minor amendments below. Added two words: "... [POSITION] and read references [MENTIONED]... " Changed "in" to WITHin". Caps for reference only. Tim January 22nd, 2008 Executive Session of the Historic Preservation Commission (of SB & SJC) Location: HPC Conference Room, 125 S. Lafayette Blvd.; South Bend 46601 Purpose: To conduct an interview session with an applicant for the position of Architectural Historian. Present: Timothy Klusczinski, Chair Lynn Patrick Todd Zeiger Mary Jane Chase Linda Riley David J. Sassano, Architect (Applicant) Absent: Gerald Ujdak Meeting called to order at 5:36pm Timothy Klusczinski described the Architectural Historian [POSITION] and read references [MENTIONED] WITHin the ordinance. Mr. Sassano provided a detailed summary of his professional background, including projects of local interest and other community activities. Mr. Sassano was eager to serve on the Commission so that he might utilize his abilities and experience to further local preservation efforts. A question and answer session ensued. Meeting Adjourned at 6:31 pm Motion: Timothy Klusczinski; Second: Lynn Patrick; All in Favor -----Original Message ----- From: Catherine Hostetler [mailto:CHOSTETL@co.st-joseph.in.us] Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 10:21 AM To: Timothy S. Klusczinski Subject: RE: Special Meeting for HPC OK. The notices are going to be posted today for both the Friday meeting and our regular meeting. Who has the required sign -in sheet from last night and the synopsis of the meeting for our records? Director, Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend and St. Joseph From: "Timothy S. Klusczinski" <tsk@myVine.com> To: "'Catherine Hostetler"' <CHOSTETL@co.st-joseph.in.us> Date: 1/23/2008 11:07 AM Subject: RE: Special Meeting for HPC January 22nd, 2008 Executive Session of the Historic Preservation Commission (of SB & SJC) Location: HPC Conference Room, 125 S. Lafayette Blvd.; South Bend 46601 Purpose: To conduct an interview session with an applicant for the position of Architectural Historian. Present: Timothy Klusczinski, Chair Lynn Patrick Todd Zeiger Mary Jane Chase Linda Riley David J. Sassano, Architect (Applicant) Absent: Gerald Ujdak Meeting called to order at 5:36pm Timothy Klusczinski described the Architectural Historian and read references in the ordinance. Mr. Sassano provided a detailed summary of his professional background, including projects of local interest and other community activities. Mr. Sassano was eager to serve on the Commission so that he might utilize his abilities and experience to further local preservation efforts. A question and answer session ensued. Meeting Adjourned at 6:31 pm Motion: Timothy Klusczinski; Second: Lynn Patrick; All in Favor -----Original Message ----- From: Catherine Hostetler[mailto:CHOSTETL@co.st-joseph.in.us] Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 10:21 AM To: Timothy S. Klusczinski Subject: RE: Special Meeting for HPC OK. The notices are going to be posted today for both the Friday meeting and our regular meeting. Who has the required sign -in sheet from last night and the synopsis of the meeting for our records? Director, Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend and St. Joseph County, Indiana 574 235 9798 NOTICE OF SPECIAL MEETING HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION mg SOUTH BEND & ST. JOSEPH COUNTY FRIDAY, JANUARY 25, 200$ NOON AT 125 S. LAFAYETTE OFFICE OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION AGENDA; APPOINTMENT OF ARCHITECTURAL HISTORIAN MISCELLANEOUS AGENDA OF THE JANUARY 28, 2008 COMMISSION MEETING Regular Meeting THIRTEENTH FLOOR ROOM 1308 County -City Building MONDAY, JANUARY 28, 2008 7:OOPM I. CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL II. PUBLIC HEARING A. CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS 1.315 W. Northshore COA #2008-0117 2.710 Park Avenue COA#2007-1107A Continued M�1 . B. LANDMARK -None ~ C. NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION -None - 111. REGULAR BUSINESS A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES December 17, 2007 B. TREASURER'S REPORT Location Report .H C. COMMITTEE REPORTS 1. President's Report W Committee Assignments 2. Committee Reports D. STAFF REPORTS: 1. C of A Approvals; Correspondence; A. Director's Report B. Assistant Director's Report C 2. Legal IV. OLD BUSINESS W V. NEW BUSINESS 1. Preservation Specialist Wayne Doolittle's 2008 Contract 2. Preserve America Community 3. Commissioner Recognition VI. HEARING OF VISITORS AND ADJOURNMENT `pM,MISS�Ory�.q� 4�r O�r STAFF REPORT CONCERNING APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS Date: January 18, 2008 Application Number: 2008-0117 Property Location: 315 W. Northshore Drive Property Owner: Alison and Greg Credi Landmark or District Designation: W. Northshore LHD Rating: Outstanding STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: This Tudor Revival home was designed by Austin and Shambleau in 1923 for Samuel R. Dunnuck. He served first as bookkeeper for G.E. Meyer & Son, a local building supply and hardware store. After his marriage in 1908 to Mary Johanna Meyer, granddaughter of the founder, Mr. Dunnuck served as general manager and eventually became president in 1935. APPLICATION ITEMS: The addition of a dormer on the third storey on the alley side (back) of the house. Will have casement window (as originals do) and surrounded by slate to match existing roof. JC Lauber will do the slate roof. Guidelines for W. Northshore: III. STRUCTURES A. Roofs. Preferred: Keep the original shape of the roof. Retain the original roofing material. A special effort should be made to do this when the roof in question is of tile, slate or some other unique material not usually found today. Preserve or replace all architectural features which give the roof its character, such as dormer windows, cupolas, cornices, brackets, chimneys, cresting, weathervanes and special eaves. Permitted: When necessary to replace roofing material, match the original as closely as possible in size, shape and texture. Prohibited: Do not add, remove or alter features which will change its character or the architectural character of the house. IV. New Construction or additions to existing structures: Preferred: Consider the size, scale, roof lines, etc., in the design of a new structure, so that it will be compatible with its adjacent buildings in particular and will blend with the neighborhood in general. New additions to existing structures must be compatible in scale, building materials and texture to the building to which the addition is made. Retain as much of the original structure as possible so that the addition could be removed without damage to -the basic structure and appearance of the building. Prohibited: Do not use asbestos or asphalt siding. Do not use artificial brick or cast stone siding. Do not use glass brick. Structural concrete block may be used only on foundations for new construction or additions. RECOMMENDATION: Staff recommends approval of the dormer. Gabled dormers are a commonly found feature of Tudor style houses and the materials will match the original materials of the house, i.e. the slates and casement windows. The addition of this dormer will not be visible from the street and conforms to the guidelines for this district. Application - FOR - . CeMficate of Appropriateness Historic Preservation Conuidalon of South Bend & St. Joseph County 125 & Lafayette Blvd., South Bend, Indiana 46601 Mailing ArWmacs South 'R,2"A Tntftinn 46601 Phone: 5742359798 @ Fax 574-2359578 Favd- WCHF0@costjosephJnus Website: http,//www.s§osephcotmVh%Uana.com/ochp/hWu-hhW OFFICE USE ONLY >>>>>> DO NOT COMPLETE ANY ENTRIES CONUMED LV THIS BOX >>>>>> OMCE USE ONLY - Date Received 17(k-9- Application Number 7 Past Reviews: [3 YES (U*,YL"t &L*W) Staff Approval authorized by: 2 Historic Commission Review Date: XP flg-,' 0,0 M Local Landmark Blocal Historic District oveme) [) National Landmark C] National Register District ovame) Certificate of Appropriateness. no Tide. E] Denied []'Tabled E] Sent 1b Committee [] Approved and Issued DATE Address of Property for proposed work- stnxt Number and Stmt Name Name of Property Owner(s); (Please Print) 0 0 1:Z Address of Property Owner(s): -1 Contractor(s) Name: Contract Company Nam: iq q Contractor Address: City. r Phone: Current Use of Building! ((Single Famr�y Multi Famity - Commercial - Government - Industrial - Vaamt - etc.) Type of Building Construction: (wood Fra StW - St0d - COMA* - Othff) Proposed Work. E] In-kind Landscape New ❑ Reollacement (not in-kind) ❑ Demolition (more darn one box may be cha�l) Description of Proposed Work t r-\ t) l'�C 4,Q 0( 1A -Al-6 1. 1-o 0 r n ef Okt fx)-(-�0't"i6wner/Contractor Fax: e-mail r�r f C, � t,X)4-) (This office YXW"Upund uith only one designa) 4 b, % ,4 cLck A and/or -- APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS ARE UffW ON REVERSE SIDE -- 01/17/2008 23:57 2431124 sr b i0ati MIKE aaPAGE 02 f49 �-0O }tom w -.grow., �..�� - -- wtMMM+/�+t+• •whwr..�Mf.�c'.:,�LY.OnFfNMw, " s r 3 t f t F h • ; i l t �..w.R+�w�-...w. •..4.M. ..--rr. ^ _, �•.. w • ..Y -h.... .w.. �. ..rw. ..}�•4�.....•.wwTr n._� ....� r_ { ,( I AltoC. , Yj . 0 . . ........ ... .. 471 tv 000, 315 W. North Shore, January18, 2008 + J.. /. Bill is to I" 911F, �jflwir �i lt11911'c{J3 • 'IIlR��I�, � + �.. �..x�+�-•T waw: Gds, � � 5� ��kri �P"!''qd�; �r"iil i",'„a... .� f 141 a h .::. S•'L: C RA I 'Etf `r I •. 7 i 1 f w '--•iF 1 - 4t. J, _ ✓ � � i ? li • +. _ tyyf yr S Y < t +o '{ * '' 1P.1 t��i i $1!►SYS\ �•; 1 MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE 2 HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION 3 OF SOUTH BEND & SAINT JOSEPH COUNTY 4 5 6 December 17, 2007 7 13th Floor Conference Room 8 County — City Building, South Bend, Indiana 9 10 Members Present: Joann Sporleder, Timothy Klusczinski, Mary Jane Chase, Lynn Patrick, Linda 11 Riley (late arrival), Jerry Ujdak, Todd Zeiger 12 Members Absent: None 13 Staff Present: Catherine Hostetler, Amy Herdman, Shawn Peterson 14 Also Present: Don Sporleder, Kevin Wilson 15 16 CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL: President Tim Klusczinski called to order at 7:05 pm 17 I. PUBLIC HEARING 18 Application Number: 2007-1120A 19 Property Location: 1344 E. Wayne Street South 20 Property Owner: Kevin Wilson 21 Landmark or District Designation: East Wayne Street LAD 22 Rating: Contributing 23 24 STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: This 1925 Colonial Revival house 25 was built by Whitcomb and Keller and sold to Ruth and Anton W. Peterson in 1927. Mr. Peterson was 26 president of Peterson Battery and Ignition Company located at 321-325 Lafayette. Mrs. Peterson was a 27 nurse and director of the Nurse's Registry for St. Joseph County. This house had eight additional 28 owners before it was purchased in 1995 by Kevin Wilson =9 0 APPLICATION ITEMS: To demolish non-original 2'/z car garage and replace with new 3 car 31 garage tying in with existing concrete slab. The garage will be built in a style and with materials to 32 compliment the house. Please see attached drawings and site plan. 33 34 STANDARDS FOR EAST WAYNE STREET: IH NEW CONSTRUCTION, C. SHED AND 35 ACCESSORY BUILDINGS: Accessory buildings are those structures that serve a specific 36 subordinate function to the residence. These include garages, carports and storage sheds. All of the 37 accessory buildings are located in the rear yard. Most of the garages were designed in an architectural 38 style related to the residence and were constructed at the same time as the residence. 39 REQUIRED: Accessory buildings shall be located at the rear of the property and as unobtrusively as 40 possible while preserving historical relationships between buildings, landscape features and open 41 spaces. Proportions and materials shall conform to those required for new construction. 42 RECOMMENDED: Accessory building designs should be compatible in character and mood to the 43 residence and the neighborhood. 44 45 RECOMMENDATION: Staff recommends approval. The proposed garage will replace a non- 46 original structure. It will be in a style and scale to the house and located at the rear of the property and 47 not visible from the street. 48 49 Klusczinski: Did you have an opportunity to sign in? Ok. Please pull up a chair closer 50 hereto get you closer to the mic. And if you would also state your name and address for 51 the record. 52 Wilson: Yes, thank you. Kevin Wilson, 1344 E Wayne Street South, South Bend. =3 Klusczinski: Would you care to make a brief presentation on your C ofA? N. Wilson: As Mrs. Hostetler pointed out, I was proposing to demolish the existing 2112 car garage and replace it with a new 3 car garage in the style matching as close as I can to the home. Again, it is back off of the, from the visibilityfrom the street, but I will make it as attractive and like the home as I possibly can. I love my home. Klusezinski: Thank you. Any Commissioners with questions for the petitioner? Ujdak: Yes, the entrance to the garage will be way of driveway? Wilson: Yes. It's actually a vacated alley that's just pea gravel. That is a shared drive for myself and my neighbor to the west of me. Ujdak: Oh, ok so it doesn't come off from the street? Wilson: Yes, it does, well no... the garage is back, but yes to enter it's.... Ujdak: Really from the back? Wilson: No, there is no entrance from the back. You have to enter from the front, from East Wayne Street, yes. Ujdak: And the driveway is where then? Wilson: It's to the west of my lot, yes. At the top, yes. (gesturing to diagram) Klusezinski: Let the record reflect that Linda Riley has joined us mid -session. Todd you had a question? Zeiger: Yeah, just a couple quick questions, just to verify, I'm sorry I couldn't see it very clearly, so the dashed lines on the survey... these dashed lines are your driveway then? Wilson: Yes, and with this you can kind of see where the street lies here. Yes and here's the existing... Zeiger: So the extra 10 ft is going to come this way towards the house? Wilson: No, it's going to come this way towards the back. There's a vacated alley behind the property, 7ft I own, 7ft the gentleman behind me owns, and we've already worked out the agreement that I will purchase that vacated half of the alley. Zeiger: So there's 14 (ft) and you'll take 10 of it? Wilson: Yes, which gives me a little room to go that way. The backyard is so small... Zeiger: Yes, that's what I was asking. Also can you clarify what are going to be the finish materials on the outside? I didn't, or I missed that. Chase: I didn't see that either. Zeiger: What's the finish material going to be, and what's the finish material on the house? Wilson: It's a cedar shake on the home, it was actually aluminum sided when I purchased it, and a number of years ago I decided to take the siding off and when I saw the cedar shake it was very nice. It certainly took some work and expense to repair it and paint it, and obviously there will be maintenance over years but it was very nice and I'd like to keep that look to the house. I've been complimented on the home over the number of years. I did bring an estimate from my contractor showing the application of siding, vinyl siding, the cedar shake simulated siding, the cement siding, and the clapboards. I'm afraid that I don't have enough copies for everyone, but I do have some copies. Obviously, expense is only going to allow me certain choices, I would like to side it with a nice vinyl, in the same color as the home... Uj dak: But a cedar shake, a shake shape? Wilson: No, if you'll look at the pricing, it's almost double the cost and that would be prohibitive for me to simulate that appearance. Again, it is set back off the street where it wouldn't be visible by any passerby. I can't afford to spend double the price to have that done, and I would like to use a very nice vinyl in the same color, to do as best that I can to replicate the home. Riley: Kevin, was there any objection about this from your neighbor to the west about this easement? Wilson: No, there was not. Riley: She got a notice about it? Wilson: Yes she did. Riley: Did you ever talk to her about it? 0) f Sporleder: That looks quite tight. 108 Wilson: I mentioned it to her boyfriend and so far, and I know that it's really the mother 109 that owns the home. I hardly ever meet her mother or her father, but when I've spoken to 110 them in the past and told them that I was planning to build a garage they said that it was 111 fine. So, I haven't heard anything, but then sometimes you don't hear anything as you 2 know. —3 Ujdak: What's the current garage siding? 114 Wilson: I believe its clapboard. 115 Sporleder: So which one of these sidings were you going to use? 116 Wilson: I was probably going to choose the $3700.00 estimate because the reveal is 5in 117. rather than 4, and again I'd like'the color to match the color of the home. 118 Sporleder: So it will look like siding, it won't look like shakes? 119 Wilson: No, it won't look like cedar shakes, no. 120 Sporleder: With the regular horizontal... 121 Wilson: Well actually the shakes have that same appearance too, its just the grain look... 122 Sporleder: Uh huh, and this does not have that grained look. 123 Wilson: No. 124 Sporleder: I had another question. I wanted to pickup on what Todd said on the location 125 in the back. So, the doors in the picture are where, on which side? 126 Wilson: Currently, it is on the west, there's a double door here, and that won't change, the 127 only difference will be that this will be extended IOft back and there will be a 2 car garage 128 door here and a single here. Everything else will be the same. 129 Sporleder: And there's enough room for pulling out and turning around? 130 Wilson: Yes, there is. 131 Sporleder: The other question that I was going to have was that, that you're going to 132 purchase this, relative to the set back requirements of the city. 133 Wilson: Yes, I have variances that I'll discuss this week, and the variance that I have here 134 is to be a foot from the property line here and I have plenty of room here, but then again 135 I'll be a foot from this corner, and I'll be fine here. i -t6 Sporleder: That looks quite tight. J7 Wilson: Right, but once I get his 7 ft, I have my 7 ft. and I only really need 10 of that. I'll 138 be fine. 139 Klusczinski: Any other questions for the petitioner? Hearing none. We move to 140 Commission discussion. Any comments or discussion? 141 Riley: Are we deciding on the material that he's going to use? 142 Sporleder: Here, pass this down to Linda please. 143 Riley: We have one here. 144 Zeiger: My only comment, what I was trying to get at, was some of the detailing, and 145 maybe we should have asked it, but the devil is always in the details. I was just wondering 146 about the trim on your house, does it have corner boards or does the cedar come right up 147 to the corners? 148 Wilson: No, and I did want to make sure that windows had the same, whatever types of 149 panes that is... 150 Riley: The mullions. 151 Wilson: Is that what they're called? Where instead ofjust a window it looks nice with little 152 squares cut out. Anything that I can do to replicate the home, I would certainly do. 153 There's only going to be two windows in the garage, but.... 154 Zeiger: That was my only comment. 155 Riley: What about, I mean do we determine the siding that he's going to use? We approve 156 that? 157 Wilson: I was going to use, not the least, but the next more expensive- the double S inch. 158 Riley: Vinyl siding? 159 Wilson: Yes, the double 5 inch, which is a little more expensive than the 4in and will better 0 replicate the appearance of the home as it's a little wider. Klusczinski: And would you be willing to amend your C ofA at this time with that particular detail? Wilson: Yes, I'd like to. I will be able to do that siding. Klusczinski: Just to give us something concrete to consider. Wilson: Thank you, yes. Klusczinski: Any other discussion? Moving on to public hearing. Is there anyone that wishes to speak in support of the petition? Hearing none, seeing none. Is there any member of the public wishing to speak in opposition? Also hearing none and seeing none, the chair closes public hearing. Any final comments? Wilson: I thank you for time, and hope that I can create a beautiful addition to my home. Klusczinksi : The chair will entertain a motion. Chase: I'll make a motion that we accept 2007-1128 as amended to stipulate that the siding will be the S inch profile. Riley: Second. Klusczinski: Motion has been made and seconded, any other questions? Moved: Chase . Second: Riley To approve C of A 2007-1128 Approved Unanimously As amended (with consent of petitioner) Application Number 2007-1107 Property Location: 710 Park Avenue Property Owner: Georges Enderle Landmark or District Designation: Chapin Park LRD, CPNRD, Local Landmark Rating: Outstanding This C of A was heard at previous meeting (11/19/2007) but no final action was taken. Due to a previous obligation out of the country, the petitioner was not able to be present at this meeting. HPC Legal Counsel, Shawn Peterson, was contacted via email by Attorney Robert E. Rodes, representing the petitioner. The petitioner, via Mr. Rodes, requested a continuance of this matter. Commissioners discussed the merits of a continuance, including whether or not a modification suggested conversationally at the previous meeting of the HPC (see Minutes 11/19/2007) had the consent of the petitioner, i.e .... if the petitioner was amenable to modifying his petition as briefly mentioned during the meeting, is it even necessary to continue 2007-1107, or should it be modified to reflect the suggested change. It was determined that the petitioner had not been formally asked to consent to the modification at the meeting of 11/19/2007, nor was the petitioner nor his counsel present at this meeting to consent, therefore consideration of a continuance of 2007-1107 is appropriate. Moved: Ujdak Second: Sporleder To Continue 2007-1107 Approved 5-2 Klusczinski, Patrick dissenting C of A 2007-1107 is continued until the regularly scheduled meeting of the HPC on January 28, 2007 (a week later than usual due to MLK holiday) at 7:00 p.m., 13`h floor, County City Building. Any modifications, changes, or addendums to C of A 2007-1107 must be received by staff at or before 12 NOON ON JANUARY 17TH, 2008. B. LANDMARKS — None. II. REGULAR BUSINESS A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES November 19, 2007 With the corrections pointed out by Commissioner Sporleder. Moved: Ujdak Second: Chase Approved Unanimously 0 214 B. TREASURER'S REPORT 215 Accepted into the record as presented. 216 C. STAFF REPORTS 217 1. Correspondence Ml 8 Two thank you notes were shared with Commissioners. M9 2. Director — Catherine Hostetler 220 Distributed to Commission. 221 3. Assistant Director — Amy Herdman 222 Distributed to Commission. 223 4. Legal Counsel — Shawn Peterson 224 None. 225 226 D. COMMITTEE REPORTS 227 1. President's Report — Tim Klusczinski 228 President Klusczinski reports that he's often approached and asked if in fact 229 Marquette is "safe?". The short answer is that for now it is, and President 230 Klusczinski wishes to thank and congratulate all of those on the HPC, or affiliated 231 with the HPC who contributed to this effort. President Klusczinski reviewed the 232 most recent developments in the effort: Common Council votes 5-3 to designate 233 Marquette a historic landmark on November 26, 2007, Mayor Luecke issues a letter 234 to Common Council on December 5, 2007 detailing his intent to veto the landmark 235 status and enumerating his rationale, by a 6-3 vote on December 10, 2007 Common 236 Council nullified the Mayor's veto per the legal opinion submitted to them by their 237 appointed counsel; and so for now, Marquette is "safe". President Klusczinski and .238 Director Hostetler participated in a meeting with the SBCSC and members of 239 Common Council to attempt compromise on this matter. During those meetings it 240 was suggested that non-contributing additions at Marquette could be removed, as 241 well as the deteriorating chimney, as a measure of compromise and progress. g 12 Despite that, and despite the mayor's directive (in the text of his veto explanation) 3 to revisit the option of renovation and to perform more extensive "value 244 engineering" before the bond is considered in February, SBCSC continues to 245 pursue new construction exclusively. President Klusczinski also wished everyone 246 very happy holidays. 247 248 2. Nominating Committee — Joann Sporleder, Chair 249 Chairwoman Sporleder reported that the Nominating Committee met on Tuesday 250 December a at 12N. Commissioners Sporleder, Chase, and Patrick were in 251 attendance. The following slate of officers is presented by the committee: Tim 252 Klusczinski, President, Lynn Patrick, Vice President, Mary Jane Chase, Treasurer, 253 Jerry Ujdak, Secretary. 254 Moved: Sporleder Second: Zeiger 255 To elect 2008 officers as presented. Approved Unanimously 256 257 III. OLD BUSINESS 258 Advisory Board — VP Patrick was asked about progress in contacting and meeting with 259 those that had accepted a seat on the Advisory Board (as discussed at the 10/15/07 meeting 260 of the HPC). VP Patrick has only been able to contact 2 out of approximately 18 that 261 accepted and agreed to serve on the Advisory Board. VP Patrick is aware of an interested 262 candidate for the soon -to -be -vacant Architectural Historian seat on the Commission. 263 IV. NEW BUSINESS 264 265 V. HEARING OF VISITORS M Don Sporleder was recognized and wished everyone a Merry Christmas. 268 ADJOURNMENT 8:28 pm 269 Moved: Riley Second: Patrick 270 Approved: Unanimously 271 Attest: 272 273 274 Todd Zeiger, Date 275 Secretary, Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend & St. Joseph County 31 V.1 4 Location Budget as of 12-31-2007 � Saint Joseph County Note: Includes transactions after the last posted date of 07-01-2007. Fund: 001 County General for 01/01/2007 thru 12/31/2007 Loc: 037 Historic Preservation A=unt Original Addt'I/Adj Total Unencumbered Unexpended Object Description Appropriation Appropriation Appropriation Encumbrance Expenditure BalancelPercent Balance/Percent 11075 Deputy Director 30,000.00 0.00 30,000.00 0.00 30,000.00 0.00 0.00 000 General GovT. 0.00 0.00 11309 Historic Preservation Admin. 36,050.00 0.00 36,050.00 0.00 36,050.00 0.00 0.00 000 General GovT. 0.00 0.00 10000 Totals """""""""""""'""`""""""'"'""""" 66,050.00 0.00 66,050.00 0.00 66,050.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 21030 Office Supplies 1,250.00 (341.50) 908.50 131.98 702.80 73.72 205.70 000 General GovT. - 8.11 22.64 22010 Gas Oil & Lubricants 883.00 0.00 883.00 75.00 555.13 252.87 327.87 000 General GovT. 28.64 37.13 22120 Garage & Motor Supplies 700.00 0.00 700.00 0.00 662.43 37.57 37.57 000 General GovT. 5.37 5.37 20000 Totals """"""""'""`"'"*`""'""`"""`"""" 2,833.00 (341.50) 2,491.50 206.98 1,920.36 364.16 571.14 14.62 22.92 31070 Other Contractual Services 28,000.00 2,275.00 30,275.00 319.00 28,374.58 1,581.42 1,900.42 000 General GovT. - 5.22 6.28 32020. Travel 425.00 1,464.60 1,889.60 0.00 1,889.60 0.00 0.00 000 General GovT. 0.00 0.00 32050 Instruction & Training 1,000.00 (595.60) 404.40 0.00 375.00 29.40 29.40 000 General GovT. 7.27 7.27 32053 Public Relations 2,570.00 638.82 3,208.82 0.00 3,197.52 11.30 11.30 000 General GovT. 0.35 0.35 32200 Telephone 160.00 (140.00) 20.00 0.00 0.00 20.00 20.00 000 General GovT. 100.00 100.00. 32350 Postage 2,160.00 700.36 21860.36 500.00 2,345.80 14.56 514.56 000 General GovT. 0.51 17.99 33010 Publication Of Legal Notices 500.00 (300.00) 200.00 0.00 134.38 65.62 65.62 000 General GovT. 32.81 32.81 User ID KSQBE KI 01/0212W 1:31 AM Page 81 `- IIIIIII I IIII b Location Budget as of 12-31-2007 Note: Includes transactions after the last posted date of 07-01-2007. Fund: 001 County General for 01/01/2007 thru 12/31/2007 Loc: 037 Historic Preservation Account Original Object Description Appropriation 33100 Printing 3,000.00 000 General GovT. 37100 Auto Lease 500.00 000 General GovT. 39010 Dues & Subscription 750.00 000 General GovT. Encumbrance 39600 Refunds, Awards & Indemnities 0.00 000 General GOVT. 5,528.00 39750 Data Processing 1,000.00 000 General GovT. 39980 Funds W/O Approp. 0.00 000 General GovT. 0.00 30000 Totals """..... ""..... """ 40,065.00 42010 Buildings & Structures 0.00 367 Gifts&Contrib 0.00 44250 Office Machines 0.00 000 General GovT. 0.05 40000 Totals """""""""""""""""""" 0.00 Location Totals """"""""""""""""""""' 108,948.00 Investment Accounts Transfer Accounts Saint Joseph County Addt'VAdj Total Unencumbered Unexpended Appropriation Appropriation Encumbrance Expenditure BalancelPercent Balance/Percent 3,124.36 6,124.36 5,528.00 594.98 1.38 5,529.38 0.02 90.29 0.00 500.00 0.00 500.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 750.00 0.00 749.95 0.05 0.05 0.01 0.01 0.00 0.00 0.00 22,762.58 (22,762.58) (22,762.58) 0.00 0.00 1,430.64 2,430.64 2,208.60 0.00 222.04 2,430.64 9.14 100.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 12,391.75 (12,391.75) (12,391.75) 0.00 0.00 8,598.18 48,663.18 8,555.60 73,316.14 (33,208.56) (24,652.96) (68.24) (50.66) 30,000.00 30,000.00 0.00 30,000.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 3,651.82 3,651.82 0.00 3,651.82 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 33,651.82 33,651.82 0.00 33,651.82 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 41,908.50 150,856.50 8,762.58 174,938.32 (32,844.40) (24,081.82) (21.77) (15.96) 0.00 0.00 174,938.32 User ID KSOBECKI 01/02/2008 11:31 AM Page 82 Location Budget as of 12-31-2007 Note: Includes transactions after the last posted date of 07-01-2007. Fund: 013 County Special Gifts for 01/01/2007 thru 12/31/2007 Loc: 037 Historic Preservation Account Total Original Object Description Appropriation 00000 Gen Govt 0.00 000 General Gov r. Balance/Percent 00000 Totals.............t...,,,,,,,,,..,..,t,...,t, 0.00 23240 Other Supplies 0.00 000 General GoV7. 20000 Totals tff..ttfi.R.Y.fiY,fi.,RRRRR:R,R.RRtR:RR.R,. 0.00 42010 Buildings & Structures 0.00 367 Gifts&Contrib 9,028.25 40000 Totalst•rt,...Y,„«rt...,RRRRRRR..,.,...RRR.R.. 0.00 Location Totals tYftYfttit.tttttlfRtRRRrtfirtfitfitrtfRRRRRRfrtt 0.00 Investment Accounts Transfer Accounts User ID KKI Saint Joseph County Addt'I/Adj Total Unencumbered Unexpended _ Appropriation Appropriation Encumbrance Expenditure Balance/Percent Balance/Percent 9,028.25 9,028.25 0.00 0.00 9,028.25 9,028.25 100.00 100.00 9,028.25 9,028.25 0.00 0.00 9,028.25 9,028.25 100.00 100.00 2,716.00 2,716.00 0.00 0.00 2,716.00 2,716.00 100.00 100.00 2,716.00 2,716.00 0.00 0.00 2,716.00 2,716.00 100.00 100.00 52,000.00 52,000.00 0.00 52,000.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 52,000.00 52,000.00 0.00 52,000.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 63,74425 63,744.25 0.00 52,000.00 11,744.25 11,744.25 18.42 18.42 0.00 0.00 52,000.00 01/09Onjj 11:31 AM Page 156 pUTe `OM,MISS10 J p�5HRte, HISTORIC PRESERVATIONCOMMISSION ,z�.' o=. PRESIDENT'S-REPORT41/28/08- , 1865 2008 Recap January Windows Workshop o January 26th, 2008 o Hosted By Eric Goss of South Bend. o Presentation by Wayne Doolittle on the rehabilitation of existing wood windows and storms. I assisted. . o Well -attended — expected enrollment was exceeded. Enthusiastic participants are eager for more, more, more! o My thanks to Wayne Doolittle for his presentation and management of the event and to Eric Goss for graciously hosting the workshop in his home. And to Steve and Jeff Schoberg for demonstrating their tried and true restoration techniques. RestoreMichiana o March $th, 2008. o I'll ask for a brief progress report from staff under New Business 2008 Goals The Preservation Plan. o Investigate funding options that will permit a professional and legal evaluation of that document. o Begin to transform the guide into a more useful strategic plan. . Re-establish active LHD Liaison Committees and re -connect with our districts. o I propose that we charge the Historic Districts Committee: • To revisit our current list of active liaisons. • To solicit new individuals for this service by developing a progressive and measurable outreach action. • Require that active liaisons meet to discuss and prepare state -of -the - district reports about their respective communities and environment. • The Historic District Committee should evaluate and summarize this information and make recommendations to this board. • 1 would like to have completed status reports no later than July 1 st Advisory Board o Much discussion has transpired over the use and purpose of this still untapped resource. The by-laws only state that the "Advisory Board is to assist [the HPC] in fulfilling its mission and effectiveness in the community." o As budget cuts are perhaps our greatest obstacles in satisfying local preservation needs while limiting our operating efficiency, I recommend that we task the Advisory Board to find creative solutions intended to reduce the impact of these budgetary constraints. This includes but is not limited to: • Marketing concepts • Assistance in the sale and distribution of County and City Survey Booklets Commissioner Requirements o CLG requirements must be met. • Commissioners are required to attend seminars, workshops and other events each year. We all need to share in the effort. Becoming a Preserve America Community O Amy Herdman will update us with her presentation under New Business. I ask for your careful attention to this important initiative. �SpUTH gFN HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION r �w 2008 STANDING COMMITTEES 1865 � EXECUTIVE OFFICERS Timothy Klusczinski, President & Chair Lynn Patrick, Vice President Gerald Ujdak, Secretary Mary Jane Chase, Treasurer BUDGET & FINANCE: Advises budgetary appropriations, project expenditures and other financial matters. Mary Jane Chase, Chair Linda Riley, Catherine Hostetler - Ex Officio, Timothy Klusczinski - Ex Officio LEGAL AFFAIRS: Makes Legal recommendations as they relate to historic sites, structures, properties and/or the entire HPC as an agency. Todd Zeiger, Chair HPC Legal Representative, Catherine Hostetler - Ex Officio, Timothy Klusczinski - Ex Officio STANDARDS & MAINTENANCE: Investigates proposals for of applications and recommends solutions sympathetic to existing guidelines, standards and utilizing preferred rehabilitation practices. David Sassano, Chair Lynn Patrick, Linda Riley, Timothy Klusczinski - Ex Officio *Paul Hayden, Technical Consultant (pending) HISTORIC LANDMARKS: Recommends the historic designation or de -listing of individual sites, structures or properties and develops preservation strategies from survey information. Linda Riley, Chair Todd Zeiger, Gerald Ujdak, Timothy Klusczinski - Ex Officio *Sandy Rossow, Citizen Member (pending) HISTORIC DISTRICTS: Recommends the historic designation or de -listing of district sites, structures or properties and develops preservation strategies from survey information. Collaborates with LHD Liaisons on projects. Lynn Patrick, Chair Todd Zeiger, Mary Jane Chase, Timothy Klusczinski - Ex Officio *John Nagy - Citizen Member (pending) FACADES & EASEMENTS Gerald Ujdak, Chair Mary Jane Chase, Catherine Hostetler — Ex Officio, Timothy Klusczinski - Ex Officio, PUBLIC RELATIONS & COMMUNITY EDUCATION Outreach and educational initiatives. Lynn Patrick, Chair David Sassano, Todd Zeiger, Timothy Klusczinski - Ex Officio *Veronnica Towne - Citizen Member (pending) Director's Report January, 2008 December 18-20 Contacted John Peddycord's Office and put together a comprehensive packet of information on Marquette School in anticipation of legal action. Applied for a HLFI grant for legal aid to pay for Mr. Peddycord's services if and when they are required. The County Commissioners' rejected HPC request for use of a County Attorney in a City matter. December 18 Data Board hearing for purchase of HPC's lap top and digital projector and accessories. December 19 Sent out letters to 7 candidates for Architectural Historian. December 26 County Commissioner's approve HPC's purchases. Finish working on year end budget and reconciliation. Arranged for HPC to use 13' floor for meetings and contacted South Bend Tribune. ,January 3 County Commissioners' meeting. Followed up with Mark Dobson on letter for the CLG Annual Report and Martha Choitz's replacement. January 8 Meeting with Todd on Restore Michiana, firm up date and location. January 9 Perspectives training session for Department Heads. Met with Susan at Cushing Manor Inn concerning their bay windows (Italianate). Wayne and I met with NNN (Karen Ainsley) and Memorial Hospital (Ted Foti and Kreg Gruber) and Chuck Leone. Learned that all of the demolition south of Memorials' Campus will be devoted to surface parking for the foreseeable future; requested that concerns had been expressed to HPC that all this surface parking makes South Bend look less like a City and that these sites be landscaped. The Children's Hospital will be on the South side of Bartlett Street. The current building projects are all on time and on budget. There was a parking study by DLZ which determined that a 500 space parking garage near the Civic Theatre would cost $17000.00 per space and even with 50/50 with the City it was too costly. CT's is still an obstacle. Chuck Leone said that South Bend can do a receivership program by issuing First Lien bonds to fund the fix -up projects. Ted mentioned that there may be changes with La Petite Day Care as the quality of die programs has declined. He also was interested in a census of the surrounding neighborhoods of owner occupied versus rentals; vacancies and code violations. ,January 10 Prepared 710 Park Avenue synopsis. Contacted David Piser as a possible candidate for a Commissioner or the Advisory Board as requested by Councilman Varner, Sent letters to Council Presidents Rouse (City) and Morton (County) requesting a Preserve America Community Support Resolutions from those legislative bodies. January 14 Wrote letters of recommendation for former Assistant Director, Julie Schutte for various Law Schools and former surveyor, Elicia Dadloxv, for graduate studies in Historic Preservation at Ball State and School for the Art Institute of Chicago ,January 22 Meeting with Tim and Todd concerning the City Surveys. Executive Session of the Commission. January 24 Botanical Society of South Bend, Executive Committee Meeting concerning the matching grant money and various fund raisers. Also, Mciier's Gardens Steve LaWarre's assessment of the collection and conditions. January 25 Special Commission meeting at noon in Conference Room. January 26 Window Workshop Assistant Director's Report HPC Meeting — 01-28-2008 ■ Met with Marcia Qualls regarding W Washington Walk. Discussed possibility of local historic district signage. ■ Attended Code Hearing regarding 612-614 S. Carroll Street. ■ Restore Michiana meetings: total of 3. ■ Designing Restore Michiana mailer. ■ Visited St. Joseph HS and selected it as 2008 Restore Michiana site. ■ Made contact with RM speakers. ■ Created RM mailing list. ■ Assisted Parks Dept in creation of parks history display at O'Brien. ■ Prepared Preserve America application for City of South Bend. ■ Teleconference with Steve Kennedy of DHPA regarding PA application. ■ Negotiated printing for RM mailer. ■ Attended meeting of Lincoln Hwy 2009 National Conference planning committee @ Mayor's Office. ■ Met with DAR regarding City Cemetery. ■ Exploring possibility of architectural salvage of abandoned houses in SB. ■ Toured Burke Building. ■ Mailed out holiday newsletter. ■ Assisted with logistics for Wood Window Workshop. ■ Began layout for winter newsletter. ■ Rescued broken white bronze funerary sculpture from City Cemetery. ■ Spoke with Parks regarding storage of light fixture at Erskine golf course. ■ Met with architect and engineer from the Troyer Group for building assessment for People's Church. STAFFAPPROVALS OCTOBER IZECEMBER 31, 2007 20074010 1323E Wayne Tree Removal per Brent Thompson 2002.1011 725 Lincoln Way East Re. -Roof 20071011B 729 Lincoln Way East Re -Roof 2007x1012 1013 Jefferson In -Kind repairs and replacements 2007x1017 729 Lincoln Way East In4and repair/replace of siding 2007x1030 1341E Wayne Roof 20074107 984 Riverside Complete tear off & re- roof 20071107B 1320E Wayne In --kind garage door replacement 20074120 211E South Street Complete tear off & re -roof 20071127 831 Park Avenue Foundation repair & re -point 20071220 61191 US 31 South Chimney restoration on Milk House 2007--1126A 615 Portage Complete tear off & re -roof 20071226 615 Portage In-kind replacement of windows Doors and siding. Fire damage 2007--1227 1426E Wayne In --kind cedar siding replacement CITY OF SOUTH BEND, ST. JOSEPH COUNTY AND THE HPC DECEMBER 31, 2007 ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEWS: 2002 86 2006 96 2003 94 2007 224 2004 115 2005 249 CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS: 2005 80 CITY OF SOUTH BEND 1 2006 105 3 2007 107 3 106 REVIEWS: 2006 3 CITY OF SOUTH BEND 1 1 2007 3 6 ST. JOSEPH COUNTY ST. JOSEPH COUNTY INVENTORY STRUCTURES IN NATIONAL REGISTER DISTRICTS: 1,667 IN CITY OF SOUTH BEND 0 IN ST. JOSEPH COUNTY SINGLE SITE NATIONAL REGISTER LANDMARKS: 32 IN CITY OF SOUTH BEND 2 IN ST. JOSEPH COUNTY STRUCTURES IN LOCAL HISTORIC DISTRICTS: 748 IN CITY OF SOUTH BEND 0 IN ST. JOSEPH COUNTY LOCAL LANDMARKS: 130 IN CITY OF SOUTH BEND 73 IN ST. JOSEPH COUNTY MARQUETiE SCHOOL LOST 1 114 LWW HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING DATES 2008 JANUARY 28 FEBRUARY 25 MARCH 17 APRIL 21 MAY 19 JUNE 16 JULY 21 AUGUST 18 SEPTEMBER 15 ©CT0336"R 20 . NOVEMBER 17 DECEMBER 15 All meetings begin at 7:00 pm In 13th Floor, Room 1308 President Timothy Klusczinski January 2008 HPC Staff is hard at work preparing applications (one for South Bend and a second for St. Joseph County) to become Indiana's 11`x' Preserve America Community! Preserve America Community designation means: ■ Grant funds available only to Preserve America Communities ($1Orn in 2007) ■ Federal recognition ■ Solidifies our CLG status, and will eventually mean a "preferred" status in the eyes of the DHPA. (In the near future, DHPA/DNR, when reviewing grant/scholarship applications, will rank applicants for consideration based partially upon whether or not that applicant has achieved Preserve America designation.) ■ Affords the HPC another opportunity to connect with other organizations and agencies in the area; both through the solicitation of letters of support for the application, and through future P.A. collaborations. Catherine is working on the County application, as well as preparing the resolutions that both County Council and Common Council must pass as a component of the application. Amy is preparing the City application and has been contacting former project partners, city/county agencies, neighborhood associations, and private businesses to request letters of support for our application. Application deadline is March 1, 2008! The Preserve America Program for Communities & Neighborhoods www.preserveamerica.gov The Preserve America Initiative Launched in 2003, the Preserve America Program unites various federal agency partners to encourage and support community efforts for,the preservation and enjoyment of our priceless cultural and natural heritage. This program now includes community and neighborhood designation, an annual grants program, and annual Presidential Awards. Purpose "Preserve America is intended to stir interest in learning about our Nation's heritage, recognize and support ongoing local preservation efforts, and encourage people to take advantage of the great cultural and natural assets of our country to improve economic health and the quality of life in our communities." Recognition The Preserve America Program provides recognition for communities that: ► Protect and celebrate their heritage, ► Use their historic assets for economic development and community revitalization, and ► Encourage people to experience and appreciate local historic resources through education and heritage tourism programs. Benefits of Participation ► White House recognition & certificate, ► A Preserve America Community road sign, ► Local use of the Preserve America logo, ► Listing in the Preserve America on-line community directory, ► Inclusion in national and regional press releases, ► Official notification of the community's designation to State tourism offices and visitor bureaus, ► Enhanced community visibility and pride, ► Eligibility for annual Preserve America grants, ► Eligibility for annual Presidential Awards, ► Other benefits still being developed. Eligibility for Designation ► Neighborhoods in cities of population greater than 200,000, ► Cities and towns, incorporated or not, ► Townships, ► Counties, ► Federally recognized Indian tribes. 0" va J"fICHIANA M M M Saturda-y, March 8, 2008 St. Joseph's Hi6h School South Bend gam--4pm Session Topics Include: ♦ Masonry Basics ♦ New Tools and Toys ♦ Fab Faux Finishes ♦ House Histories ♦ Outdoor Home Care ♦ Plaster & Wall Repair ♦ Greening An Old House ♦ Window Restoration ♦ Project Process ♦ Signature Style Vendor displays, demonstrations, and more! New this year. ♦ Lunchtime "round4able" chats with presenters! ♦ Restore Michiana website under construction! ADDITIONAL DETAILS TO FOLLOW SAVE THE DATE! 4 SOUTH BEND & SAINT JOSEPH COUNTY HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION January 28, 2008 MEETING GUESTS: PLEASE SIGN THIS LIST SO THAT, YOUR PRESENCE CAN BE NOTED FOR OUR, MINUTES Print Name Address Sjgnature ZC47 J 14V U. 1 MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND & SAINT JOSEPH COUNTY January 28, 2008 13th floor conference room County -City Building, South Bend, Indiana Members Present: David Sassano, Todd Zeiger, Timothy Klusczinski, Lynn Patrick, Linda Riley, Mary Jane Chase Members Absent: Jerry Ujdak Staff Present: Catherine Hostetler, Amy Herdman, Larry Metiever (New Attorney), Aladean DeRose (Interim Attorney) Also Present: Don Sporleder, R.E. Rodes, Georges Enderle, Joann Sporleder, Alison Credi, Michael Dregits, Mikki Dobski CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL: President Tim Klusczinski called to order at 7:02 Klusczinski: I ask for a vote to suspend the agenda for consideration of Commissioner Recognition; may I have a motion, please. In a motion by Mary Jane Chase and a second Linda Riley, it passed unanimously. Klusczinski: I'll sponsor the following resolution: Resolution OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND AND SAINT TOSEPH COUNTY, INDIANA At the January 28, 20o8 Meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend and Saint Joseph County: Whereas: Joann Sporleder has served this Commission, and has generously donated services which were highly useful to citizens of Saint Joseph County, and the City of South Bend; Whereas: She has effectively, tirelessly, and responsibly served for thirty-five years as Architectural Historian of the Commission, and as member of the Landmarks, Southhold Awards, Fagade Easements and Standards and Maintenance Committees. Every member of the Commission, as well as, the many citizens whom she has served and assisted, view her with affection and respect; Now Therefore: This Historic Preservation Commission declares that the services volunteered by Joann Sporleder are a significant and material benefit to the citizens of South Bend and Saint Joseph County, and it is proper that her good work be publicly recognized and remembered. Timothy Klusczinski, President Mary Jane Chase, Treasurer Linda Riley David Sassano, Architect Historian Is there a second? Linda Riley: Second Gerald Ujdak, Secretary Todd Zeiger Lynn Patrick, Vice President January 28, 20o8 In a motion by Timothy Klusczinski with a second by Linda Riley, the motion passes unanimously. The chair then recognizes Mikki Dobski-Shidler representing the Mayor of South Bend. Mikki Dobski Shidler: I am representing Mayor Luecke and it is an honor to be here. In light of what you just learned about Joann I have a Key to the City that the Mayor would like to present. The Mayor could not be here tonight because he had to be on the fourth floor, but I feel blessed to be here. And as President Klusczinski said, this is in recognition of not only your 35 years of service but also because Joann was one of the founding members (of the HPC) along with Ruth Price and got the ball rolling like she has for so many things. I really want to say that you have been a real role model for me. She would call and it would always, inevitably be when I was, "Oh I can't believe all this! Things are just not fun!" And you would call with something so neat and interesting to do. So, it is really my pleasure to be able to present this to you. Joann: I have never had such an honor. Thank you so much. My Goodness! 2 Klusczinski: Back to our Agenda, begin public hearing first with Certificate of Appropriateness number 2008-0117. Hostetler: Application Number: 2008-0117 Property Location: 315 W. Northshore Drive Property Owner: Alison and Greg Credi Landmark or District Designation: W. Northshore LRD Rating: Outstanding STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: This Tudor Revival home was designed by Austin and Shambleau in 1923 for Samuel R. Dunnuck. He served first as bookkeeper for G.E. Meyer & Son, a local building supply and hardware store. After his marriage in 19o8 to Mary Johanna Meyer, granddaughter of the founder, Mr. Dunnuck served as general manager and eventually became president in 1935• APPLICATION ITEMS: The addition of a dormer on the third storey on the alley side (back) of the house. Will have casement window (as originals do) and surrounded by slate to match existing roof. JC Lauber will do the slate roof. Guidelines for W. Northshore: III. STRUCTURES A. Roofs. Preferred: Keep the original shape of the roof. Retain the original roofing material. A special effort should be made to do this when the roof in question is of tile, slate or some other unique material not usually found today. Preserve or replace all architectural features which give the roof its character, such as dormer windows, cupolas, cornices, brackets, chimneys, cresting, weathervanes and special eaves. Permitted: When necessary to replace roofing material, match the original as closely as possible in size, shape and texture. Prohibited: Do not add, remove or alter features which will change its character or the architectural character of the house. IV. New Construction or additions to existing structures: Preferred: Consider the size, scale, roof lines, etc., in the design of a new structure, so that it will be compatible with its adjacent buildings in particular and will blend with the neighborhood in general. New additions to existing structures must be compatible in scale, building materials and texture to the building to which the addition is made. Retain as much of the original structure as possible so that the addition could be removed without damage to the basic structure and appearance of the building. Prohibited: Do not use asbestos or asphalt siding. Do not use artificial brick or cast stone siding. Do not use glass brick. Structural concrete block may be used only on foundations for new construction or additions. RECOMMENDATION. Staff recommends approval of the dormer. Gabled dormers are a commonly found feature of Tudor style houses and the materials will match the original materials of the house, i.e. the slates and casement windows. The addition of this dormer will.not be visible from the street and conforms to the guidelines for this district. Hostetler: Mrs. Credi and the Contractor, Mike Dregits are present. Klusczinski: Thank you. Please state your name and address for the record. Dregits: My name is Michael Dregits and the address of the Building is 315 West Northshore Blvd. This is the residence of Dr. and Mrs. Credi. Klusczinski: So, you are making a presentation for the petitioner? Dregits: Yes. I believe that this is just going to add to the character and beauty of the house. There are other dormers on the house, already, existing. This is on the alley side. The roof line that it is going to be applied to is a hipped roof so the gabled dormer's coming out toward the alley and it's all going to be covered in slate. Everything is going to match the existing house. I think that it will add for to the house, rather than detract from the house. Patrick: Just for clarity sake, it doesn't indicate on here which is the alley side. Could you draw or indicate here which view the dormer is going to be on. Dregits: This view right here. He points out the location on the picture. And this dormer right here is actually the two hips going up, right here. So the dormer is going right here. This is going to be a gabled dormer coming out on the hip. You do have other gabled dormers on the house, that are existing right now. I think that it is just going to add to it. Patrick: Nice.............Great Sassano: So the top of the gable goes up, your elevation shows the top of the gable into the small little gable that's currently there? Dregits: No, it's actually about two feet below the existing roof line. It isn't a gable there, it's a hip. Sassano: This isn't drawn to scale? Dregits: This is pretty much to scale, but it is not done by an architect, obviously. Sassano: But you see what I am saying, this line is above the... Dregits: That line is not above the hip line, not above the existing ridge of the house, it's below that. Klusczinski: Any other questions for the petitioner? Riley: Are you just doing this to add light? Dregits: It's actually adding living space; and you have to have an escape route from the third floor. Sassano: The side walls of the gable are how? The exposed side walls... Dregits: Slate Sassano: So you are going to have the slate roof and the slate is going to come down the sides. Dregits: Yes. Klusczinski: Any other questions? Patrick: What is the cost of this project? Dregits: Fifty thousand. Patrick: Fifty Thousand? Sassano: Are you going to try to use the tapered slate? Dregits: The project also includes the second floor bath, and slate is not inexpensive. Sassano: Are you going to match the multi colored sort of tapered slate? Dregits: As best as possible. Mrs. Credi: If I could speak to that; JC Lauber has been taking care of the roof for about ten years. Before that the person that replaced one of the. slates used a different, thinner slate; and so I found J C Lauber actually puts on slate that matches the existing. Klusczinski: Chair opens up for Commission discussion; any discussion? Hearing none, the Chair opens up public hearing. Is there any member of the public wishing to speak in support of the current petition? Seeing, hearing none, is there any member of the public 4 wishing to speak in opposition of the current petition? Also seeing, hearing none, chair closes public hearing. Would any one care to make a motion? Riley: I make a motion that we accept this proposal as presented... application 2008-0117. Chase: Second. In a motion made by Linda Riley with a second by Mary Jane Chase the Commission voted to approve COA 2008-0117 with a unanimous vote of 6. Lynn Patrick recused herself because there was a quorum. Klusczinski: Continuance of Certificate of Appropriateness 2007-1107A. Catherine could you re read that for us, please. Hostetler: Sure. Application Number: COA# 2007-1107 Property Location: 710 Park Avenue Property Owner: Georges Enderle Landmark or District Designation: Local Landmark, Chapin Park LHD/NR Rating: Outstanding STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT. This Eclectic Italianate was built for Mary Chapin Anderson and Andrew Anderson between 1875 and 1877. Four generations of the Anderson-DuShane family lived in this house until 1962. This is one of the most significant residential architectural structures in the city of South Bend and in Chapin Park. APPLICATION ITEMS: Four Marvin replacement windows in the bay area, wood ultimate insert double hung, double pane, upgraded to Low E 11 with Argon gas. Per letter and specifications submitted. RECOMMENDATION: Staff can not recommend approval as the windows are not deteriorated beyond repair and can be restored in-situ in this significant architectural landmark. These are the same windows that were applied for in COAs 2006-1108A and 2007-0905A which the Commission denied. Klusczinski: Thank you. Members of the Commission, we are under a continuance, for those of you who did not attend the meeting on November 19, 2007, we were unable to take action. We had two that abstained from the vote, we had two that voted in the negative and two that voted in the affirmative. We took a couple of passes at it and arrived at the same results. We typically would have taken action at the December meeting; we were asked by counsel representing the petitioner to hold off so that he could review the case and make a presentation to this commission. In doing so, they waived the 60 day period that we normally would be obligated to act within. So, tonight, we are here not to hear public testimony, since we have already done that part, you are going to have to scratch your brain or review the minutes for what was done on November 19; but -to hear the additional legal testimony from the petitioner's counsel. Rodes: I am Robert Rodes attorney for the applicant. My contention here is that the proposal will not change the appearance of the house sufficiently to make it within the power of the Commission to turn it down. My claim is ... I prepared a legal memorandum, has it been distributed? (Affirmed) Well then, basically, my claim is that the role of the Commission is to preserve the general ambience both of the building and of the neighborhood. What we are talking about here is a change that will, the most that it will do; is increase the thickness of a window sill by a half an inch. And that will not be visible, that will not be a noticeable change. And I have put together my arguments as to why the, from the language of the Ordinance and the language of the State's statutes as to why I believe the Commission cannot interfere with. so minor, so little visible, a change. I think, this is a matter of what is the scope of the Commission's authority and I think the important work of the Commission is to preserve the ambience of the community: And I think, here we have, my client is cold in winter and electricity, source of heats the house, he wants to put in double glazing for comfort and efficiency. I think, changes of this kind are within the... unintelligible ... to historical preservation. Now, I have here arguments, fairly technical from the text of the Ordinance and the State's statutes which I'll be glad to enlarge upon if the Commission wishes, but I shouldn't read something that I have already given out in writing. So I ask the Commissioners... Patrick: Thank you. Rodes: Any ... anything further? Klusczinski: Are there any questions for the petitioner's counsel? Zeiger: A clarification. You said that the only modification, what you just said that it is only going to add a half inch window sill... Rodes: The only visible Zeiger: So in this COA that has been supplied to us, it says that the new width of the daylight opening is 305/8 inches and the existing window sashes are 31 '/4 , so that is a decrease in size. So that is a change. In addition to the window sill, as well as the height of the new is 37 3/8 and the existing window is 39, so that is another change. So what you really just represented isn't true. Rodes: I stand corrected. That was my mistake. Zeiger: That is a significant difference between just a half an inch window sill and changes in sash size and window openings size and that's my objection to this COA is that it is significantly changing not only the window sill it is also changing the size of sashes by inserting a completely new unit into this window frame. That is my objection to this COA and why I feel it is not compatible with the guidelines. I appreciate the clarification in that. Rodes: Fair enough, my claim continues to be that it will not be a noticeable change from the outside, from the street, which is what we are looking for the ambience of the building. Also, it will not be a change in the historic or architectural character of the building. That language is in the State statute but... Zeiger: The State statute that clarifies the state statute that runs this Commission or the statewide statute that runs the rest of commissions in the state? 10 Rodes: My contention is that the grandfathering of this Commission is unconstitutional. I have advocates from the Indiana Count of Appeals which will so hold....that is... Zeiger: You are going to be mounting a constitutional challenge to the Commission in addition to challenging this COA? Rodes: I am. Zeiger: Interesting. I don't think that is germane to our discussion here this evening. Rodes: I have a case ...your attorney will... speak... DeRose: I will, in fact let me speak. Aladean DeRose, Legal Department. What the petitioner is claiming is that both, there is not authority to do what the Commission has proposed to do by the last motion, denying the COA and secondly, and separately, that Commission has been improperly delegated responsibility under State law because it has a code that is different from the rest of the State and there is a Constitutional provision that provides ... a Constitutional provision that requires that all laws be uniformly and generally enforced throughout the State. Those are legal issues that would be addressed to a different forum. They would be addressed to a judicial forum; so that in the event that this case goes further those issues may be determined. But for your purposes, at this time, I don't think you have the power or the authority to determine whether you're acting unconstitutionally or in violation... Rodes: Could I, could I elaborate on that..... DeRose: Well, we could argue about that, I am sure Mr. Rodes wants to make... Zeiger: It is not germane to the COA. Rodes: It's not, it's not.... That ... you can, certainly, follow the state guidelines if you were so minded, there is nothing to stop you from doing so. That counsel has pointed out, whether you are obliged to follow them is not a question for this tribunal, but you are certainly at liberty to follow them; it might be wise to do so. Klusczinski: Professor Rodes, did you look at the diagrams for the proposed installation of the replacement option that the petitioner chose? Rodes: I didn't. I looked at them but I did not follow them completely because I... Klusczinski: Do you read blueprints? Rodes: Uh... I....ah prob... Klusczinski: Fair enough. I understand. Rodes: Basically, I am making this argument from the practicalities ... of my client Klusczinski: And I understand. But what I was trying to draw a correlation to is if you don't know exactly what he proposes to install into the opening how can you assess that it wouldn't detract from the current visual appearance of the building or structure which would lend itself to the historic credibility of a significant local landmark in the Chapin Park historic district? Rodes: Not that, I think that I will, I will defer to my client there. My understanding from, my understanding from him was that it was not plain that there would be a noticeable change in the appearance of the building. Now, if there is such a claim... Klusczinski: We believe there is and I think that that has been a point of contention all the way along. There is a secondary sill that was proposed. Also, as per the guidelines as per all the requirements where we have a precedent set in the local community since 1973 what we have to remain sensitive to, also, is that typically our position has generally been to further artifacts and amenities to historic structures that also lend themselves to the character and preservation of those structures. We believe, I believe, and when I say"we" VA I mean by majority decision because we did have some dissention in the past, and I'll certainly be honest about that; but I certainly believe that there is rationale and that the existing wooden windows can be restored and the drafty condition exhibited by those windows is a characteristic of some of the glass panels sliding down which is a maintenance issue and not necessarily a course for the replacement of an entire feature in an historic building. So those are some of the other options that we are trying to weigh ourselves through. The house, certainly, is high profile landmark and for whatever reason or purpose for the last 135 plus years the existing windows are intact; which is a rare feature, in and of it self. None of us probably would claim that we are the last people standing in our houses or the last and final owners of our houses; and Professor, you and I both hale from the Chapin Park Historic District and we know that, so I guess in the spirit of stewardship what we are trying to do is to look beyond just a convenience issue for a particular petitioner and also do things in the best interest for the structure in the long term. When I have been able to physically investigate the windows, and we did over a year ago, we convened a committee and we met with Professor Enderle at his residence at least once and maybe up to three times, I think between Staff and members of the Standards and Maintenance Committee, it wasn't apparent to us that the windows are damaged beyond repair or that it's worth setting precedent to allow something that other people in the community have been able to go into compliance with. So, those are some of the issues that we also have to consider. Rodes: Well, I now, I have, I was called into this case to render legal advice and I have tried to limit myself to it. My argument is based on the supposition that the change will not be a notable change that is the language, conspicuous, the word conspicuous appears in the ordinance. And I have.... Klusezinski: But have you investigated, either from a national, state or local level, what affect that has upon a local landmark? Because to some extent everything is ascertainable from the outside appearance; just because you and I could pass by and not necessarily notice it one particular day, doesn't mean it detracts from the market value and the rating of the structure as far as the state goes. Rodes: Now, the word "conspicuous", I have looked at the dictionary meaning of the word "feature" and I don't think these are conspicuous changes or changes in the feature. I don't think that they are changes in the historical or architectural character of the building. Those are the things....now...I think, certainly the Commission is right to look at more authenticity in dealing with the issue trying to reach a compromise with the homeowner and, my client has been in discussion with the Commission Staff for well over a year; and my client is still open more authentic option that is available to meet his needs. But, I think... Klusczinski: Several were presented in the past. Rodes: The ones that have been presented in the past, he has not found acceptable. Now I gather that he was visited by Mr. Ujdak the other day... Klusezinski: Mr. Ujdak is not here to corroborate that, one way or the other. Rodes: He informed me that he was visited by Mr. Ujdak who made another suggestion and certainly my client is open to considering that suggestion even after this is granted. But I don't think or... Klusczinski: Or denied as the case may be ... [End of Tape #1 side A] Rodes: But, But my claim is that level of authenticity cannot be coerce -ably imposed. That is, that is, that's basically my claim, I made the argument. I, you asked what I found else... elsewhere, well I went to I went to West Law and looked up all the terms and found nothing. So, I gather you are making precedent for the whole United States. I couldn't find anything in the legal resources interpreting the any of the terms that are used here. Maybe a better researcher could, but I have not. So, That, that that is basically... DeRose: Mr. Rodes, can I clarify what I understand the argument that I think I understand or hear you to be making that you are making is that the guideline for this particular change, that the guideline exceeds the scope of the authority of the Commission, argument 1? Rodes: To impose it coercively, yes DeRose: Argument number 2 is that this Commission is acting pursuant to a law that you think is unconstitutional because it does not apply throughout the State? Rodes: Not exactly. Argument Number 2 is that to the extent that the grandfathering allows the Commission to impose a more onerous burden upon the citizens of South Bend than other Commissions can impose upon other citizens in other communities, it is unconstitutional. DeRose: O.K. Thank you. Rodes: The technicalities of it can be grandfathered. I don't know if you have had a chance to look at the case that I have cited DeRose: I have not ... but at least I understand your argument Rodes: That's the argument: the details can be grandfathered but the ultimate burden on the citizen cannot. Klusczinski: Any other questions? Chase: We did receive you correspondence and I do not have it with me, but I jotted down, if I could address your correspondence to us, I have my notes here, some of the things that you brought up and I would like to address them. You said that the timing of the application was early fall and when we did have the last vote I did abstain and these are my objections because I feel that timing of this, and this has happened in more than one year, the timing is early fall, to take out the windows at that time and repair them would be impossible if this would be in early spring or early summer you are going to have the time of the year to do this. But if you pick the fall you would have the hardship because the cold weather. Rodes: But the claim of hardship is not simply for this winter for all the.... Chase: You said hardship and the other thing that was stated was he did not get enough assistance from the Staff and I think that the staff did everything that they could to be of assistance concerning repair. The materials are of the nineteenth century, repair would be current, new materials. There are epoxies that are better than the wood that is there. That could fix the window, the glass would stay in place, so it wouldn't be, "Go back and use the nineteenth century materials and methods". The other thing would be a very big imposition for Mr. Enderle to put the windows up, if he had storms to put them up all the time. Am I to understand that Mr. Enderle washes all of these windows in the house, himself, he gets up on a ladder, now? This he would probably hire to have done. Rodes: I live in a house which has storm windows when I bought it and I have never put them up in over fourty years. 0 Chase: Well these were stated as some hardships and I don't think that they would be a hardship. But, if you decide to put on a roof and you want to do it in a blazing snowstorm that is not good thinking. If you do what needs to be done at the time of the year that it is feasible, it could be done very easily. Rodes: What I am thinking of are the storm windows, the kind you hang in the fall and you take down in the spring. Hostetler: But, these are the ones we recommended for him. A photograph was presented to Professor Rodes of the interior storm window approved by the Department of the Interior for historic renovation projects from Allied Window, Inc of Cincinnati, Ohio.) Can you see them? Rodes: No. Hostetler: They are the interior ones. Klusczinski: Which are typical of the ones that we would recommend for structures like that would have any difficulty in applying exterior storms. Chase: So I was just answering questions that were in your correspondence. Rodes: As I say, I will leave the technicalities for my client who is here, now and available for questions. I confine myself to the legal arguments. Klusczinski: And I think that is what we are confined to here tonight are the legal arguments. Rodes: That is as far as my expertise goes. I have decided not to get into the technicalities. Klusczinski: In light of what you wrote and what we received and what we reviewed, I think we wanted to establish that there was a great deal of support from this Commission to try to find compromises and alternative solutions; making several visits; doing investigations and finding something that we could achieve energy efficiency with and also preserve the historical integrity of a building that is very important. Rodes: That, there were long discussions which my client was not satisfied. He asked me to raise the legal point and I have done so. My client is here if you wish to.... Enderle: I wish to say a few words. My name is Georges Enderle 710 Park Avenue, the owner of the house. As you know it has been a long process; I started a search with the Commission not in the fall but in July, 2006; and had first meetings with the Commission and was hoping that within three months it would be possible. I could not do it before because I was many months in China. Second: About what Mr. Zeiger said about the big change of the width and the height of the windows, that is not exact, because the difference is not even half an inch in width and in the determined height is one inch higher. Zeiger: What it the precedent, I'm sorry, what is the procedure here for this discussion... Klusczinski: Point of order? DeRose: There's no motion on the table ... so you can... Zeiger: Then I have a question for the owner if I might, Mr. Chairman. Sir, I am reading from your COA which you submitted. Enderle: Yes, exactly, I am reading this, also, the same text. The openings of the window sashes are 30 5/8 and the existing window is 31 %a, so this is not even a half an inch... Zeiger: But it is a diminishment of size. My question was is this smaller than the existing windows? 10 Zeiger: Plus the %Z inch at the sill Enderle: Yes Zeiger: So that becomes more than 2 inches difference Enderle: Yes Zeiger: Over 2 inches is a significant change in the windows in my opinion Enderle: But you have the numbers here. And if you look from outside, I wonder if you could see that difference. Zeiger: I can see it. Enderle: The about the cooperation with the Commission, that is my third point. That really I am grateful to Jerry Ujdak, particularly, he came to my house and checked the windows and he said first it is very clear that this window never had exterior storm windows. It would be a shame to push exterior storm windows on my house. That was the position as you know... Klusczinski: That may be, but unfortunately that is hearsay, since Mr. Ujdak isn't here to substantiate... Enderle: Others have, my house never had exterior storms and it's in the minutes. And I was fighting against that from the beginning and your Commission and some Commissioners, Wayne Doolittle first wanted me at first to put exterior storm windows there because I was not allowed to have double paned windows there. Now Mr. Ujdak said two days ago he could find a solution with a double pane ... What I am saying is that I do not have a clear proposal from the Commission up to now which does not force me to put interior storm windows and nor interior storm windows and to force me to have windows with single pane that in my view is inacceptable. That was my third point. Klusczinski: Professor Enderle, I think here on November 19 I read in detail Catherine Hostetler's letter to you that had recommendations from the Commission specifically and Just as a point of clarification the topic on the floor was never whether you were allowed to have two glasses, as you say, or whether or not there was an insulated glass; but every form of insulated double paned glass that you proposed also had an accompanying frame and that additional window sill with it.. That is a whole different ball of wax... In November, Mr. Ujdak was present and the minutes may reflect that he was aware of a manufacturer that made an encapsulated double paned glass that had an Argon or Krypton filling in it, the could possibly be retro -fitted into your window units. That was proposed but you did not decline or withdraw your COA at that point, you decided to keep this one active. Enderle: Well... Klusczinski So in order for better solution to come into play, the proposal that is on the table today is one that specifically allows yet another frame and an additional sill as you option for thenno efficiency. Enderle: I proposed a test. Remember? Klusczinski: Right. It was a faulty test Enderle: It was not faulty to compare two types of solutions and to see how it works. Klusczinski: What you didn't propose in your test. As far as a constant, was to fix the window that you had. Compare a new double panes window from the factory with the current window of single paned glass that was not repaired. Enderle/Hostetler: No, No that was not it. Fully repaired by Mr. Schoberg. 11 Enderle: That was the point. Mr. Schoberg was to repair the window as it is because you told me this is not beyond repair. And I say, Okay, Mr. Schoberg, please repair this window with single pane and we take this and compare with my solution my test, Catherine Hostetler Klusczinski: But the single pane will always lose to a double pane unless you introduce a storm window solution. Enderle: Well that was the question... your forced me to put either interior or exterior storm windows and I don't accept that. I am happy that I was fighting against exterior storm windows. If you look, it would be a shame for my house. And I could not understand why some Commissioners wanted me to have exterior storm windows on my house I mean this is, it is not, but I understand that it would destroy the appearance of the house. Klusezinski: It would be less invasive than Enderle: And now we are discussing half inches.....It's a little more disportionate Zeiger: It is more than that ... it's more than a half inch.—The over all affect is 21/8 inches in height and that is a significant change. Klusezinski: Any other questions for the petitioner? Zeiger: The one thing that we talked about, but I don't see explored, was the installation of sash packs where you don't have to have the whole frame where you can replicate the exact size of the windows with what are called Marvin Sash Packs or other similar units ... or makes... Enderle: It was on the table Zeiger: It's not what you have applied for. Enderle: The tilt pack could be put into the existing frame work. Plus also proposed by Joann Sporleder and I was:.. Klusczinski: Joann Sporleder was a member of this Commission and did not propose anything. Enderle: It was it is in the minutes... Klusczinski: What she suggested was an alternative which did not represent what you proposed on that C of A Enderle: I said yes Zeiger: Have we ever had a COA that had a tilt pack? DeRose: Let me just cut to the chase here. You have a certificate of Appropriateness for this item four Marvin Replacement windows in the bay area wood something or other, insert double hung, double pane upgraded to Low E2 with Argon gas period. That is all that is before the Commission. The only thing that you can take action on tonight. So that is what you need to do. If there are, if that is approved, then fine; if it is disapproved you'll come back with another application. Enderle: May I add one point. I make it brief. I am willing to continue to cooperate with the Commission and I was very pleased that Jerry Ujdak came and we had a good conversation and if I know that I can have the sash as it is but restore with two, double pane and it is acceptable from a quality point of view from a cost point of view, today, I don't know if that is the case and certainly I have time to check that because I am not going to fix the problem now in January or February. We can find out the solution there, but the point made by Professor Rodes, and this is my point, that these are details and I appreciate your advice but I think that you cannot force me to buy one particular window 12 instead of another solution equally reasonable, more or less. That's my point. I am not saying that tomorrow or immediately I would buy or order those Marvin windows if I can find a solution to which helps me to have double pane windows and also to make sure that wind is not coming through the sashes and the frame, you know that's another problem that has to be fixed. If I have such a solution I am more than happy to do that; but I think that you cannot force me. Patrick: I would like to make a statement. We are not in the habit of forcing people. I am sorry if you feel that we have tried at any point to force you to do anything. We are just trying to preserve the house, the artistic integrity, the architectural the historic ... The fact that we have had so many meetings should be, if nothing else, a sign of our good will and our desire reach a common accord. And I would like to know more about these sash packs. Is that something you could....? Zeiger: When you are done I have a question for the chair and the staff Patrick: I am done. Zeiger: I am just curious; if I could ask Wayne as the staff, or Catherine, when you met with Schoberg did you investigate swapping out the glass itself with dual pane in those sashes? Hostetler: That was in the letter. That was a recommendation. Zeiger: Has Schoberg looked at the sash with that regard; are the sashes thick enough to swap out the glass itself Doolittle: I wasn't at that meeting. Zeiger: A lot of times you can rout out those sashes and put the dual pane in and line the jambs. And I also had a question because what you are asking us to approve what we have here in front of us and that, what I am hearing you say is if you found a different solution that would preserve the windows that you would do that, if you did that your would have to come back for a different, another COA? DeRose: What I was thinking as you were discussing all this, is that you can withdraw this COA application, you could submit a COA application for one window done as the Commission has suggested, you could then test that window, because I think I hear a sort on consensus that it would be approved if you did it that way and then if you liked it then you could come back and do a COA for the remaining three or come back with this petition if you don't like it and then have the Commission rule on it then. So that's an alternative. Enderle: Well my point is that I appreciate your willingness to cooperate, but I have willingness also and I think I have demonstrated that but I think I am forced not to buy Marvin windows. You don't allow me to do that. Well if you do that, if you can give me that freedom, then you can vote positively today. But, I am not... Klusczinski: Marvin makes different models and styles of windows. We are not resisting any manufacturer, we resisting your submission of design for that solution. Enderle: No, this is Marvin windows.... Klusczinski: They make more than one window.... Enderle: Of course, it is exactly what is described here. Klusczinski: And we are saying that Marvin probably makes something that we would like more, so we are not trying to discriminate against Marvin, like you said, if I am understanding you correctly. 13 Enderle: This is the second Marvin proposal, I had another first with the aluminum clad that you rejected and I said Okay I understand your concern I go to Marvin back and asking what is the best to do in terms of wood inserts and tilt packs, and here they are. So what else can I do? Hostetler: We have not had a COA application, Dr. Enderle, for a tilt pack or sash inserts. Enderle: But my question is how many times do I have to go back to Marvin and what is your competence? I mean, are you a body which gives advices within in some guidelines or are you a body like the lawmakers who says you have to do that. DeRose: I think they are a combination of both; and they have provided you with advice and some suggestions. Enderle: The point that I am making is I need double pane windows. When Doolittle said we could put the second window on top of the old window. Afterwards he told me this is not feasible because the windows are far too big. Okay, I was looking for other things. And then from the Home Depot I went to Marvin to try to find something. I was asked to put exterior storm windows. I found out that this is nonsense. I don't understand why such a proposal could come from your Commission. I was asked to put interior storm windows... well, that is not your competence. DeRose: But that is not what this is. The Commission is not ruling today on an interior storm window. Klusczinski: You would be allowed to do that without our consent because we don't have jurisdiction over the interior. Enderle: That's a hardship to me! To put interior storm windows this is hardship to me, you don't have the competence to say so, you cannot force me. Patrick: May I make a comment? I know that this has been frustrating. And frustrating for us all. Normally, once every two years or so we will have an issue such as this for various reasons. When he talks about the sash packs, right away I felt that everybody felt, "Oh, that could be a solution". Maybe this is something that we should explore and go forward, because I feel confident that our path to the solution lies in continuing to go forward instead of going back over what we have seen is not acceptable to you or to us. Maybe we should go forward and explore this. Riley: Could I ask you something? I thought I heard you say, in the last half hour, that you would be willing to have the whole window completely repaired with a double pane. Enderle: Yes, if the quality is acceptable. I know that it is not possible to put Argon gas inside. Zeiger: You can order custom gas filled panes of glass. Enderle: Second I have to find a solution for those (unintelligible phrasing) sashes and I am saying I am willing to look at that solution and to check the quality and also the price. I am willing to do that. Riley: I'll bet it's cheaper to have it rebuilt and insulted than buying all these windows you want to put in. Enderle: I am willing to do that but my point is how can you force me not to have that solution of Marvin windows? I think you that is my understanding, that you are overstepping your competency.... 14 Klusczinski: Professor, would you be willing to withdraw this particular CofA that is a point of contention and submit one with the encapsulated glass panels that can be retro- fitted into your windows? Enderle: Well, if I come to the conclusion that solution is not as good as the Marvin windows what should I do then? Zeiger: Submit the proof. DeRose: They haven't voted on this one so you could re submit. Rodes: I think what we could look at having another continuance with another holding of the sixty day limit during the continuance. DeRose: I would suggest that you withdraw this petition. Klusezinski: This one will get messy, because this is nothing that we are supposed to look at as far as information, appearance or.....And, I don't think, there's no time issue, that I am aware of, in submitting a brand new CofA. You have the clock restart the same way as you would a Continuance. Enderle: Well my point is that if I go for restoration of sashes with double panes before I make that decision I want to know how much does it costs and what's the quality. That's why I am in favor of a Continuance. If I come to that conclusion you know, I make the proposal; if I don't come conclusion, well, what should I do? Klusczinski: With a Continuance, I'm not sure that its, that we have a fair time advantage on considering it. Rodes: Well, if you Continue this then if we find the alternative is acceptable then we withdraw this and put in a petition for the alternative. If we find no acceptable alternative than this will be before you another time. Enderle: If I give up this... Klusczinski: Any other questions for the petitioner? Zeiger: I am curious as to our legal counsel's opinion after hearing all of this. Rodes: I was saying that we Continue this for another month that between now and the next month's meeting we come up with an acceptable alternative than we can withdraw this and put in another one. That seems to me... DeRose: As long as you waive, as long as the Commission still has the power retains their jurisdiction over this application doesn't get stuck with the sixty day.... Rodes: We hold the sixty day limitation from the last meetings and if we Continue it we hold the sixty days until next time. DeRose: There is certainly nothing illegal about that, you can do that if that made sense. to you all. Klusczinski: Are there any disadvantages to that? DeRose: No, not really. Zeiger: Do we have to outline what these alternatives are that we're expecting to be looked at? DeRose: What he would do, I would think, would be to provide you with another C of A, a second C of A. Rodes: Another acceptable alternative... Zeiger: There are at least two that I would like to see demonstrated as alternatives. And I guess what I am asking is do we have to specify what those are or do we just work with the applicant in between now and then? 15 DeRose: I think, if you want to give directions today, it would probably be helpful, that will shorten the time, certainly. Zeiger: I am all in favor of that. I just asking what we are supposed to do. DeRose/Klusczinski: Yes/ I am in favor of that. Zeiger: What I am throwing out for consideration for the Commission there are at least two that I would like to see strongly investigated that are legitimate options: #1 being retrofitting the existing sash with dual paned gas filled, you can order these windows glass lights; retrofitting the existing sash with new glass and lining the jambs to tighten up the area of infiltration that you may or may not have in that situation. I think that's # 1 and Schobergs you've already met with, there's other contractors out there we can provide you with the names. And, the other is, Marvin makes them Kolbe makes them others make them, is tilt pack, that's a brand name, but they are sash' inserts. They are brand new sashes, new liners with the filled glass. I think that those are at least two that I would like to see. Klusczinski: And that would eliminate the extra sill. Zeiger: It eliminates the extra sill; it matches the height and width exactly; keeps the size of the glass the same and in the first alternative, keeps the original sash in place which I think is really the goal. So, I put that out for consideration. Klusczinski: Does that seem like an acceptable proposal? Enderle: Well, I mean for the tilt pack, yes. And also the first proposal [End Tape I Side BJ Patrick: Would it be appropriate for Todd to assist in putting together this CofA A and helping to resource it, since he is more familiar with the product and that might mitigate some of the confusion and misunderstanding from the past? Klusczinski: Let me clarify one thing; is staff not familiar with these alternatives? Hostetler: We are familiar with them Zeiger: I would be glad to assist but, I think Wayne and Catherine have plenty of experiences, as well; but I will be glad to assist their efforts. Patrick: I wanted to try to make sure that the Professor was not out there searching the darkness for this and then coming and finding that it was not what we meant at all. Just trying to make this as easy as possible at this point, as clear, as comfortable, as precise, as effective, as efficient, as economical.... Klusczinski: I almost gaveled you. Riley: Does the Chair recognize someone in the audience? Klusczinski: I recognize everyone in the audience. Bear in mind there are no public comments, but Joann, since you are here... Joann Sporleder: I just wanted to comment on one of the proposals that Todd is suggesting had in fact had been looked at. The problem which can still be investigated of course is that two of the windows the framework is not in good shape [Zeiger: That can be dealt with.] The frame work would need to be rebuilt, basically; it is completely rotted out in the corners on at least two of the windows that I am aware of personally. Zeiger: That is a condition that can be readily dealt with epoxies and repairs. Sassano: How is that dealt with in the current C of A? Zeiger: It's ripped out... Klusczinski: Right.... demolition 16 Joann: The current C of A is taking all of the windows out and replacing them and the frames, what goes around the window... Zeiger/Sassano: Oh, she means sashes. Sassano: The tilt pack replaces the sash completely. Joann: Right, that option looks from what I understand to be fairly good. But rebuilding the existing thing that holds in the glass....the sash ... doesn't look like a good idea to me for two reasons one because of the completely rotted out wood in two of the windows and because there was some concern that the weights in the windows weren't adequate to make proper balance with the heavier windows with the double paned glass. It's a consideration, it's not insurmountable; I just wanted to get it out there that it had already been looked at, at least in part. Zeiger: That information has never been provided to the Commission. I have not seen that information. And sash, if there are eight sash total and only two are rotted that is easily dealt with epoxy and repair and fabrication. And you can put the new glass in there, you can add weight to the window weights, you can buy new weights to go into the window wells. This is all do -able "stuff; it is done all over the country in all kinds of old houses all over the place. So, that is why I made my recommendation. DeRose: Well, it appears that the petitioner is willing to Continue on this C of A. Klusczinski: Do we need action from this Board that they are willing to accept this Continuance with these conditions? DeRose: We have hand written notes. We have a written waiver of statutory time period and if Professor Enderle or Professor Rodes, his legal representative is willing to sign this, I think that we can proceed. Klusczinski: Do we have consensus on the Board that we are willing to fore go action tonight. Zeiger: So moved. Chase: Second. In a motion by Todd Zeiger with a Second by Mary Jane Chase the Commission voted unanimously to fore go action tonight and Continue COA 2007-1107. [Professor Rodes signs the Waiver] Klusczinski: Thank you, gentlemen. Public hearing is closed. Moving onward to Regular Business and the Approval of Minutes from December 17, 2007. Riley: So moved. Patrick: Second. In a motion by Linda Riley and'with a second by Lynn Patrick the minutes were approved unanimously. Zeiger: I make a motion that we approve the minutes of the special meeting of January 25, 2008. Chase: Second In a motion by Todd Zeiger with a second by Mary Jane Chase the minutes were approved unanimously. Klusczinski: Treasurer's Report Chase: You have the report in your packets on the green paper. I have read it over and approve. If you have any questions ask our Director. Klusczinski: I need a motion to approve the treasure's budget, location report. Riley: So moved. 17 Zeiger: Second. In a motion by Linda Riley and with a second by Todd Zeiger the Commission voted unanimously to accept the Treasurer's report. . President's Report: Distributed to Commissioners. Committee assignments were distributed with the caveat that there may be changes as new Commissioners are appointed by the Mayor and the County Commissioners. With regards to the standing committee only by a vote of the entire Commission can a task be given to a committee for study. There was a lengthy discussion on the 2008 Goals and especially on Commissioner CLG requirements to attend seminars. During the course of that discussion Todd Zeiger said that Historic Landmarks Foundation of Indiana could put on workshops for the Commission, a half an hour or an hour before the meetings or at lunch, if the Commissioners would submit their ideas to Catherine Hostetler. C of A Approvals: Fourth Quarter Staff Approvals distributed via Commissioner packets. Director's Report: Hard copy distributed to Commissioners. Assistant Director's Report: Hard copy distributed to Commissioners. Legal: Assistant City Attorney, Aladean DeRose introduced Larry Metiever as the Commission's permanent City Attorney. Larry has past experience with Elkhart County's Historic Preservation Commission. New Business: The Director presented the Preservation Specialist's Contract for Commission approval. In a motion by Todd Zeiger with a second by Mary Jane Chase the Commission voted unanimously to approve the contract. Assistant Director gave a brief presentation on the Preserve America Community and its importance to the Commission for future grant opportunities. [End Tape 2 Side A] Commissioner Recognition: President Klusczinski said that Martha Choitz will be recognized for her years of service on the Commission when she returns from Florida in the spring. Also, President Klusczinski wants to seek funding sources for a professional review and overhaul of the Preservation Plan into a more useful and user friendly document. Todd Zeiger also said that a portion of the proceeds from the sale of the Surveys could be used to finance the Preservation Plan. He estimated about $15,000.00 would be needed for someone to review and do the Preservation Plan with the possibility of a matching grant from DHPA to net $30,000.00 to do the job really well. Todd also said that since the Commission is a Certified Local Government means that the State has already certified its Ordinance "is in line". President Klusczinski asked for a "vote of consensus to do something with the Preservation Plan of use to the Commission at some point in the future perhaps using the proceeds from the sale of the survey booklets". In a motion by Todd Zeiger and with a second by Mary Jane Chase the Commission voted unanimously to approve the motion. President Klusczinski then asked the Commission to "charge the Historic Districts Committee with pursuing the LHD liaison committee or reactivating those individuals or activating new ones or doing whatever we have to get some representatives from these districts." In a motion by Todd Zeiger with a second by Mary Jane Chase the motion was approved unanimously by Commission. President Klusczinski: And the Advisory Board, does that seem like a legitimate use for the Advisory Board, something that they might be able to help us with or at least find an opportunity to become engaged right now and use their resources to assist us. [President's Report: As budget cuts are perhaps our greatest obstacles in satisfying local preservation needs while limiting our operating efficiency, I recommend that we task the Advisory Board to find creative solutions intended to reduce the impact of these budgetary constraints. This includes but is not limited to: marketing concepts and assistance in the sale and distribution of County and City Survey Booklets.] Zeiger: I think it's a great idea. Klusczinski: Chair entertains a motion. We are charging them to action as far as marketing and fund raising. Patrick: I was thinking that with Restore Michiana coming up that's something that we can get people showing up to help out, getting involved. Klusczinski: Now they could do that individually. I don't know if they could be required to do that as an Advisory Board... Patrick: I'd like to spearhead this and drag other people along with me if I may. I am very interested in this... In motion by Todd Zeiger with a second by Mary Jane Chase the motion was passed unanimously by the Commissioners. Assistant Director Amy Herdman announced that Restore Michiana will be on March 8, 2008 at St. Joseph High School. By doing the graphics for the mailer Amy estimates that she will save two-thirds the cost of design and printing over last year. She also utilized the surveys from last year's Restore Michiana to determine the work shops and to arrange for a Round Table style lunch with the speakers. She is also building a website which will take registrations on-line. She also said that the staff at St. Joseph High School was very helpful and gracious. Hearing of Visitors: Don Sporleder as a member of the board for the Northern Indiana Center for History commented on the move of the Sons of Israel Synagogue to the NICH Campus. The U.S. 19 Green Council made a presentation at the University of Notre Dame School of Architecture. Existing buildings and restoration are now areas for LEEDS certification. Joann Sporleder said that she did go into the vault of the Presbyterian Church to look for blue prints of the former church (now Ambassadors for Christ) and wasn't able to find anything that looked like them. She said that she would look again. She thanked the Commission again and said that she enjoyed her 35 years.on the Commission most of the time and wished the Commission good luck. Zeiger: Motion to adjourn. Riley: Second The motion to adjourn passed unanimously at 8:50 p.m. Attest: Date: -? moi .Y 20