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February 2008
- - - G�MMISSIpryEgS AGENDA OF THE, FEBRUARY 24, 2008 o H COMMISSION MEETING oe con Regular Meeting THIRTEENTH FLOOR ROOM 1308 County -City Building MONDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 2008 7:OOPM I. CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL II. PUBLIC HEARING A. CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS 1.710 Park Avenue COA#2008-0214 2.710 Park Avenue COA#2007-1107A Continued B. LANDMARK None C. NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION -None - 111. REGULAR BUSINESS A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES January 28, 2008 B. TREASURER'S REPORT Location Report C. COMMITTEE REPORTS 1. President's Report Committee Assignments 2. Committee Reports D. STAFF REPORTS: 1. C of A Approvals; Correspondence; A. Director's Report B. Assistant Director's Report 2. Legal IV. OLD BUSINESS V. NEW BUSINESS VI. HEARING OF VISITORS AND ADJOURNMENT rA a V STAFF REPORT CONCERNING APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS Date: February 14, 2008 Application Number: COA# 2008-0214 Property Location: 710 Park Avenue Property Owner: Georges Enderle Landmark or District Designation: Local Landmark, Chapin Park LHD/NR Rating: Outstanding STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: This Eclectic Italianate was built for Mary Chapin Anderson and Andrew Anderson between 1875 and 1877. Four generations of the Anderson-DuShane family lived in this house until 1962. This is one of the most significant residential architectural structures in the city of South Bend and in Chapin Park. APPLICATION ITEMS: Four wood "tilt pacs", double hung (Marvin) in the bay area. Storage of old sashed in a safe place. CHAPIN PARK STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES C. WINDOWS AND DOORS Window and door frames are in most cases wood and vary depending upon the style of the home. Many are double -hung windows with wood trim and sills. Brick structures have stone sills and brick lintels. In some cases where aluminum siding has been applied, the window and door trim has been covered. About half of the structures in the district have aluminum storm windows; the other half have wood storm windows. Required Original windows and doors shall be retained including sashes, lintels, sills, shutters, decorative glass, pediments, hoods and hardware. When deteriorated beyond repair, they shall be replaced with units. and trim resembling the.. original. - Recommended Wood storm windows and doors painted or finished to match the original should be used but should not damage existing frames. If new sashes or doors are installed, the existing or original materials, design and hardware should be used. When metal storm doors are used, they should be painted, anodized or coated to match the existing. When awnings are used, they should be of canvas material. Prohibited Original doors, windows and hardware shall not be discarded when they can be restored and reused in place. New window and door openings, which would alter the scale and proportion of the building may not be introduced. Inappropriate new window and door features such as metal, vinyl or fiberglass awnings, hoods or aluminum insulating glass combinations that require removal of original windows and doors, shall not be installed. Not Recommended Fake shutters that would detract from the existing character or appearance of the building should not be used. GROUP B LANDMARK STANDARDS B. Treatment: Treatment shall be defined as any change of surface materials that will not alter the style or original form. Such improvements include reproofing, glazing, or landscaping lawns and may involve a change that can potentially enhance or detract from the character of the landmark. A treatment change of any surface whether on the landmark or in its environment may require a Certificate of Appropriateness if it significantly alters the appearance of the landmark. Although these kinds of changes may not require a Building Permit, a Certificate of Appropriateness may be necessary. The commission should review the proposed treatment for character and style consistency with the original surfaces. RECOMMENDATION: The "tilt pac" replacement sashes was one of the options that some Commissioners thought would be a less invasive and more acceptable alternative to a complete window replacement. Staff recommends approval because the "tilt pac" sashes will leave the original window frame in place. Also, the original window sashes will be stored and can be restored and replaced by future homeowners. V Application - FOR - Certificate of Appropriateness Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend & St. Joseph County 125 S. Lafayette Blvd., South Bend, Indiana 46601 Mailing Address: County -City Building, South Bend, Indiana 46601 Phone: 574-235-9798 • Fax: 574-235-9578 • Email: SBSJCHPC0aco.st joseph.in.us Website: http://www.st osephcountyindiana.com/s chp/index.html OFFICE USE ONLY ,»/»» DO NOT COMPLETE ANY ENTRIES CONRINED IN THIS BOX »»» OFFICE USE ONLY Date Received �7 L 02008 Application Number o� 00� _ O.Z Al Past Reviews: YYES (Dale of Last RMety) Staff Approval authorized by: Historic Commission Review Date: Wy 4� .200' F] NO Title: [ v Local Landmark [ <0cal Historic District (Name) F1 National Landmark [ej<ational Register District (Name) Certificate of Appropriateness: R Denied Q Tabled E] Sent To Committee R Approved and Issued DATE Address of Property for proposed work: '7710 retyk Ayo- Street�Nlumbeer/and Sty -eel Name � Name of Property Owner(s): (Please Print) 1.7 e7 C� � � s °te0 to Address of Property Owner(s): Contractor(s) Name: Contract Company Name: Contractor Address: City: Current Use of Building: Type of Building Construction: 710 Potik Ave . J&C,�, ' frlk G(AVCH e Rowe S'rr Ice_ G7E6 21 Mu 6ovr ktc acA 00WCAgt AC w M1 Phone: 574 220 47S & vvR l am.,6,wly . (Single Family/^ -1 Multi -Family — Commercial — Government — Industrial — Vacant — etc.) rvood &WP (Wood Frame — Brick — Stone. — Steel — Concrete — Other) Proposed Work: n In-kind FjLandscape n New [Replacement (not in-kind) F]Demolition (more than one twx may to checked) /n1 // fl, -\C.5,,/ / Description of Proposed Work: -AKrI k%odo( -04fl,-\C.5vl(44b(e-A�'j 1 �(ii llo\ S�Fd � o�C S�l,�s ii-. s�e h(acsL Owner/Contractor: Fax: T4 63( s2ss- e-mail �Q Acte,r1E, #4A (This office Wnll un•re-SpOnd With onht one designee) and/or - - APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS ARE LISTED ON REVERSE SIDE — University of Notre Dame Mendoza College of Business 393 Notre Dame, Indiana 46556-0399 Dr. Georges Enderle John T. Ryan, Jr. Professor of International Business Ethics Mrs. Catherine D. Hostetler Director, Historic Preservation Commission 227 West Jefferson Blvd. South Bend, IN 46601 Dear Mrs. Hostetler, Phone: 574-631-5595 Fax: 574-621-5255 E -Mail: genderle@nd.edu February 14, 2008 Please find enclosed my application for Certificate of Appropriateness regarding the four windows of the bay area in my house at 710 Park Avenue. After consultation with Mr. Sassano, Mr. Schoberg, and Mr. Arndt, I propose four Tilt Pacs (Marvin windows) as documented in the appendix. This means that the existing frames of the windows would keep staying in place while the sashes would be replaced with new double -pane sashes. I would store the old single -pane sashes in a safe place in my house. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at 574-631-5595 or 574-234- 6582. Sincerely, Georges Enderle Enclosed Tilt Pac (Marvin window) Application for CoA Check of $10.00 MARVIN 01 Windows and Doors WOOD TILT PACS' Made(oryou: UNIT FEATURES aa -ah. • Pine wood Interior and exterior standard. Optional mahogany or vertical grain Douglas fir • Double Hung filt-pac Sash thickness: 15/16" (33) - • Magnum and Historical Magnum Sash thickness: 13/4" (44 mm) • Double Hung Top rail width: 2 15/32" (63). Bottom rail width: 3 3/4" (95). Stile width: 125/32" (45) • Magnum Double Hung Top rail width: 21/4" (57). Bottom rail width: 3 7/8" (98). Stile width: 21/4" (57) • Historical tilt-pac Top rail width: 21/32" (52). Bottom rail width: 31/2" (89). Stile width: 21/32" (52) • Bottom rail Bevel 14 degrees • Removable exterior glazing stops • Historical Magnum has Finger pulls on bottom rail interior apd exterior flpish: • Treated bare wood or white primed (pine only) eti a t•Jaroware: . • 'Lock: High pressure'zinc die-cast cam lock and keeper. Optional: keyed lock. Two locks on glass sizes of 36 inches (914 mm) and wider. Color. Satin Taupe. Optional: Bronze, White, Plated brass • Balance System: Magnum and Historical Magnum: Double coil spring block and tackle with nylon cord and fiber filled nylon clutch • Balance System: Double hung: coil spring block and tackle with nylon cord and fiber filled nylon clutch • Jamb Track: All wood tilt-pacs: Vinyl extrusion, foam backing. Color: Beige or White • Sash retainer plate: Magnum and Historical Magnum: Polycarbonate thermoplastic. Color: Bronze, White.(Double hung: Optional Sash retainer plates) • Sash lifts: All wood tilt-pacs: 'Optional. High pressure zinc die-cast. Color: Satin Taupe. Optional: Bronze, White, or Brass Weathers(riq pq: • Weather-strip: Maghum and Historical Magnum: Continuous, leaf weather strip at head jamb parting stop which seals against top sash; dual durometer double leaf at check rail; bulb type dual durometer weather strip at bottom rail. Color: Beige • Weather strip: Double hung: Dual durometer double leaf at check rail; bulb type dual durometer weather strip at bottom rail. Color: Beige Insect Sc(eens: • Wood screen. Optional aluminum screen: Full screen standard, half screen optional. Both are shipped loose. Color: Stone White, Bahama Brown, Bronze, Pebble Gray. Select and Custom colors • Screen mesh: 18 by 16 charcoal fiberglass, optional screen mesh: Charcoal aluminum wire, Black aluminum wire, Bright aluminum wire, Bright bronze wire WooOCorpbirlat(gn Storrp $ash and Screen: • Rigid track utilized to hold storm and screen panels • Storm panel. Color: Bronze, Bahama Brown, Pebble Gray, and Stone White • Hardware: Spring loaded locking pins to hold movable storm panel in position. Heavy metal clips to lock upper and lower storm panels together. Turn latches hold non-movable storm screen panels Removabj_e jInterior Gfj(les - JDoub(e Jhuea apd Maonum Double huna): • Bar: Pine wood; 3/4" (19) or 1 1/8" (29) wide • Pattern: Rectangular, custom lite layouts available, contact your Marvin representative Simulated Divided Lite (SDL): • Bar (interior and exterior): 7/8"(22) or 1 1/8" (29) wide bars. Pine wood standard, optional mahogany or vertical grain Douglas fir. Finish to match interior and exterior • Pattern: Rectangular, custom lite layouts available, contact your Marvin representative. • installation method: Factory applied with acrylic foam tape . . Autkeptic Div)ded Lite (&M. • =interior and exterior): single glazed 7/8" (22) wide bars, insulated glass 1 7/16" (37) wide bars (Double Hung) and 1-11/16" (43) wide bars(Magnum Double Hung): available in standard pine and optional mahogany or vertical grain Douglas fir. Finish to match Interior and exterior • Pattern: Rectangular, custom lite layouts available, contact your Marvin representative Glass ancJ Giazipa: • Glazing method: Double Hung and Magnum Double Hung. Insulated or single glazed, single glazed with energy panel. Insulated glass hermetically sealed • Glazing method: Historical Double hung. Single glazed, single glazed with interior energy panel • Glazing seal: Silicon glazed • Glazing type: Clear glass, optional glass types: Low E II hand -coat, Laminated, Tempered, Obscure, Bronze tint, Gray tint, and Reflective Bronze I • Insulated glass will be altitude adjusted for higher elevations, argon gas not included Accessories: • Sash retainer plates: Polycarbonate thermoplastic. Color: Bronze, White • Sash lifts: High pressure zinc die-cast. Color: Bronze, White, or Brass NOTE: - - - - Values shown in parenthesis represent metric equivalents For product specifications please refer to the CSI Product Specifications, contact your Marvin representative 3/04 25.2 MARVIN A . Windows .-a Doors WOOD TILT PACS Madeforyou: MINIMUM AND MAXIMUM MEASUREMENTS / MEASUREMENT CONVERSIONS Glazing Type Insulated Glass Single Glaze Insulated Glass Single Glaze Single Glaze Minimum and Maximum Measurements Minimum Glass Size Width 6-(203) 8-(203) 12-(304) 12-(304) 12-(304) Minimum Maximum Maximum Glass Size Glass Size Glass Size Height Width Height Double Hung lilt Pac . •.. 8-(203 44-(1117) 48-(12191 8- (203) 44", (1117) 48-(1 2 1 9) . Magnum Double Hung Tilt Pac , 12" (304)60'(1524) (DLO) 60" (1524) 12-(304) 60-(1 524) 64-(1625) Magnum Historic Tilt Pac (SO) 12-(304) ( 60'(1524) I 64" (1625) PER SASH Maximum Glass Size not to exceed Square Feet When glass height exceeds 48" top sash will be stationary and bottom sash will have limited travel. MAXIMUM SASH WEIGHT 70 LBS per sash. Measurement Conversions =,Double hung Tilt Pac,,,, 10.0 Sq. Feet (0.93 Sq. Meters) 12.0 Sq. Feet (1.11 Sq. Meters) 18.5 Sq. Feet (1.72 Sq. Meters) 18.5 Sq. Feet (1.72 Sq. Meters) 18.5 Sq. Feet (1.72 Sq. Meters) 7/03 25.3 Daylight Glass Outside Outside Sash Size Opening Size Measurement Measurement Opening Referenced (DLO) (GS) Top Sash Bottom Sash (SO) ..' Dimension Needed :". • .. . .. Daylight Width + 1 1/16' Width + 3 8/16" Width + 3 8/16' (so) Width' + 5 1/16" (129) Opening (27) (so) each sash Height: -+ / 1/16" +4 SM' Height ; ;; +ss/16' ' Height -(141) •" Height DLox2 +8W (DLO) (27I - ., (106) (206) Glass I Width 11/16' (27) Width +21/2" (64) Width +21/2' (64) Width +4' (102) Size (GS) I Height .11/16" +33/32' Height +a 112":- Height 114 - He, GSx2, 4 52 Outside Width I - 3 9/16" (90) Width - 2 1/2' (64) Width 0 Width +1112- (38) Measurement Top Sash o m Height - 4 5/32" •. Height - 3 3132"., • Height + 1 13/32" Height SASH HT X 2' :.31516" (tO6j C/9) . (36) O Outside 0 Width I -39/16- (90) Width ' 21/2' (64) Width 0 Width + 1 1/2" (36) Measurement SASH HT x 2 Bottom Sash Height - 5 9/16" ,, (1411 Height - 4112' _ (114) -113132- Height . (36) .. Height - 3'.. Sash Width - 51/16' (129) Width -4- (102) Width - 1 112" (38) Width - 1 1/2' (38) Opening 60/2 S0/2' :SO/2. SO12 (SO) Heigh -41/16 Height -3. Height ' + 3/32" Height + 1 112" (I D3) . (76) (2) .(38) 7/03 25.3 •onirbrs MARVINA Windows ,and Doors WOOD TILT PACS Daylight Madeforyou.1 MEASUREMENT CONVERSIONS Outside Sash Size Opening (. ;.:: =Measurement Measurement Conversions Magnum bobble Huln-dnit ac P w. Opening Daylight Glass Outside Outside Sash Size Opening Size Measurement I Measurement Opening Referenced (DLO) (GS) Top Sash Bottom Sash (SO) Opening (10) Dimension Needed (103) (162) Daylight Width +11/16' Width +41/2- Width + 4 112' Width 613116- Opening a 'H -ioht 1 (27) (114) (114) (173) each sash 10 Heigh,.4.11/16 ".: '+331!32".•:-. HeightHeight - - — + 5 19/32* . DLOX2 Height, (DLC)�1 + 3 11/16' Width Width + 3 11/16* 42) (2(M Glass -11/16•I Width (94) +37/16' Width +37/16- Width Width +5314' h Size (27) - Height +33M' (87) - (87) (146) (GS) HeiC +229=*r:+417/32:.., Height HeightH . ..... GS X 2 - '3 . (27) �(71) SOX2 7,�- (149) Outside -412' g Width (114) Width -37/16- Wi (87) 1/8, Height .(29) Width 0 +25/16' Width (59) Measurement r3 -1- , -.,I ' M. 3 3i�i-"" � :,H1":`;, -i .: --,. 11.-�!O - . 2 Top Sash 0 Height 0 eight. -+ Height 167. elgh 1:� JJX � C Bottom Sash Height Width 4 112* 1114) Width -37116- (87) Width 0 Height 21/8' —. Width + 2 W16- (59) Outside Sash Measurement Width -6- (152) Width 2 5116' (59) Width 2 5/16" (59) ',�:SO X 2.;",,*,:. Bottom SashFj -SO/2 e;gtt SO/2 3 3M 6, `t' (SO) Height' 313/16',; ' ... L:''. ' �: .. -t<a � . Height + 1 1116'.:- - .: (81).°fit: .._ Sash Width 173) 5 314' Width (146) Width -25/16- (59) Width 2 5116* Opening So SO 12w-+,-: (SO) Height:; ght, 2 7103 25.4 NOTE: Conversions represent units without dividers. Contact Marvins for additional conversions. •onirbrs .`�.i,�-;�Aeasuremen wll k1 146 Tfi ns'!�, agnum s o t Fac, Daylight Glass Outside Outside Sash Size Opening Size Measurement Measurement Opening Referenced (DLO) (GS) Top Sash Bottom Sash (SO) " Dimension N' e4ded',�+ Daylight Width +3/6' Width +41/16' Width +41/16' Width +63/8• Opening (10) (103) (103) (162) each sash 3 314" + 4 718* -Z2 (DLO) a 'H -ioht 1 Height eight ':w+7.5/6 Y� 10 :o Fjj,- Glass + + -318. Width (10) + 3 11/16' Width Width + 3 11/16* Width + 6' Size (94) A94) (152) (GS) �. - •:-3/8'..:: Height. ; � ,- 0i Height +33M' - :,:.+412'.::..,. HeightHeight , . -GSX2 , x,.67/6' (175) C Outside Width -41/16- (103) Width -311/16' (94) Width 0 Width +25/16' (59) Measurement 0C - '3 . SOX2 a Top Sash — 0 Height., . r+,,,- 3/4- .1 (95)(86j 3 3/8*, Height 1 . .: 1/8, Height .(29) Height 1J8 - C . (3) Outside a Width -41/16- (103) Width -311/16- (94) Width 0 Width + 2 5/16" (59) MeasurementSOX2 � - Bottom Sash Height . . Height (114) - Height (29). Height 21/8' —. Sash Width 6 W (162) Width -6- (152) Width 2 5116' (59) Width 2 5/16" (59) Opening 'SO/2 -SO/2 ...SO/2 'Height' SO/2 (SO) Height' 313/16',; 7116- +1/16' Height + 1 1116'.:- (97) ..(27). NOTE: Conversions represent units Without dividers. Contact Marvins for additional conversions. 7103 25.4 WOOD TILT PACS TILT PAC MEASUREMENTS SCALE: 3" = 1'0" Existing Frame Replacement Sash Head Jamb I � I � ii c a o N I 14' Bevel Sill Top Sash MARVIN -A Windows and Doors Madeforyou: Replacement Sash Jamb Liner Checkrail I — — — Side Jamb Bottom Sash I — — Instructions: Follow these steps to measure an opening for Tilt Pac Replacement Sash Existing Frame 1. To find the sash opening height: If the old window has wood blocks holding the top sash in place, remove them. Lowerthe top sash for measuring clearance, then measure the height of the window from where the top sash meets the head jamb to where the bottom sash meets the sill when the bottom sash is fully closed. 2. To find the sash opening width: Take an inside measurement of the frame from jamb to jamb. 3. To find the sill angle: Raise the bottom sash and place a carpenter's protractor on the sill, the angle will register. Marvin's standard bottom rail angle is 14 degrees, other angles must be specified. NOTE: Double Hung sash shown above. Instructions and measuring locations apply to Single Hung, Magnum Double / Single Hung sash, and Magnum Historical sash. I 7/03 25.5 WOOD TILT PACS - ALL TILT PAC FULL SCREEN MEASUREMENTS 9-s MARVIN 0 Windows and Doors Made foryou: Screen Opening -s► Instructions: To insure a proper screen fit, it is recommended to order a screen after the Tilt Pac installation. Side Casing 1. To find the screen opening height: Measure from the top casing to the edge of where the screen will rest at the sill, minus 3/32" (2) for the outside measurement (OSM) of the screen height. 2. To find the screen opening width: Measure from the inside edge of the side casing to theinside edge of the opposite side casing, minus 1/8" (3) for the outside measurement (OSM) of the screen width,. . NOTE: Double Hung sash and screen are shown above. Instructions and measuring locations apply to Single Hung, Magnum Double / Single Hung sash, and Magnum Historical sash. Screen measuring instructions also apply to Combination Storm / Screen measurements. Standard angle on combination bottom rails is 14 degrees, other angles must be specified. +1'7103 25.6 WOOD DOUBLE HUNG TILT PACS PARTS LIST C- Double Huna Tilt Pac A L if C Sinale Huna Tilt Pac OF f a H F I 7/os 25.7 M MARVIN -i'' Windows and Doors Madeforyou: A. Top Sash B. Bottom Sash C. Cam Pivots D. Left Vinyl Jamb Liner E. Right Vinyl Jamb Liner F. Head Jamb Part Stop G. Two Plastic Sash Stops H. Metal Brackets (quantity varies) I. Two foam gaskets A. Top Sash B. Bottom Sash C. Cam Pivots D. Left Vinyl Jamb Liner E. Right Vinyl Jamb Liner F. Head Jamb Part Stop G. Two Plastic Sash Stops H. Metal Brackets (quanity varies) I. Stationary Sash Bracket (quanity may vary) J. Sash Filler K. Sash Opening Filler WOOD DOUBLE HUNG TILT PACS PARTS LIST Maanum Double Huna Tilt Pac MARVIN j Windows and Doors Made for you: A. Top Sash ' ! •� K B. Bottom Sash . C. Cam Pivots D. Left Vinyl Jamb Liner, E. Right Vinyl Jamb Liner F. Head Jamb Part Stop i C © G. Two Plastic Sash Stops H. Metal Brackets (quantity varies) . 1. Two foam gaskets � J. Two Top Sash Stays � Two Sash Retainer Plates E K. F L^J b (NOTE: Only on Magnum Tilt Pacs) T O L. Finger Pulls (NOTE: Only on Magnum Historical Tilt Pacs) Maanum Sinale Huna Tilt Pac pA A. Top Sash n --. --. — B. Bottom Sash 00", C. Cam Pivots D. Left Vinyl Jamb Liner X",\ E. Right Vinyl Jamb Liner F Head Jamb Part Stop �© L G. Two Plastic Sash Stops H. Vinyl Hardware Clips r (Amount varies with unit size) G I. Stationary Sash Brackets D .. h (Amount varies with unit size) J. Stationary Sash Filler F p K. Sash Opening Filler L. Finger Pulls - (NOTE: Only on Magnum Historical Tilt Pacs) M. Two Sash Retainer Plates (NOTE: Only on Magnum Tilt Pacs) 7/os 25.8 WOOD DOUBLE HUNG TILT PACS PARTS LIST/ SECTION DETAILS: DIVIDED LITE OPTIONS NOT TO SCALE Maanum Historical Double Huna Tilt Pac Insulating Glass i (22) U_11/ 7/8" SDL with Spacer Bar 1(1/7) Aluminum Grille Between Glass Single Glaze '1 I7/8" (22) 7/8" SDL NOTE: Grille = Removable interior divider SDL = Simulated divided lite ADL = Authentic divided lite M Double Huna Insulatina Glass (19) L 1(29), 3/4" Grille 1 1/8" Grille 1 1/8" 1 1/8" (29) (29) 1 1/8" SDL 1 1/8" SDL without Spacer Bar with Spacer Bar Double Huna Sinale Glaze Single Glaze with Energy Panel . �1 1/8" (29) 1 1/8" SDL 2/os 25.9 3/4' 314" Grille MARVIN j4, Windows and Doors Made foryou: A. Top Sash B. Bottom Sash C. Cam Pivots D. Left Vinyl Jamb Liner E. Right Vinyl Jamb Liner F. Head Jamb Part Stop G. Two Plastic Sash Stops H. Metal Brackets (quantity varies) I. Two foam gaskets J. Two Top Sash Stays K. Finger Pulls 7/8" (22) D=i� Single Glaze ADL 7/8" (22) ,1 7/8"SDL without Spacer Bar t1 1 7/18• (37) 1 7/16" ADL 1 1 (29)� 1 1/8" Grille 7/8" (22) Single Glaze ADL with Energy Panel 4 I WOOD MAGNUM DOUBLE HUNG TILT PACS SECTION DETAILS: DIVIDED LITE OPTIONS NOT TO SCALE II Ir Insulating Glass I I I r '�11J �1Y 7/8" SDL with Spacer Bar K� ' Q Single Glaze ( 2) 7/8" SDL Maonum Double Hung Insulating Glass __ (3 jll �,D 3/4" Grille ti17 1 1/8" SDL 1118- (29) 'I1 �12 1 1/8" Grille 1(2M): rfT1, II I I it \lY 1 1/8" SDL with Spacer Bar MARVIN -O'' Windows and Doors Made foryou: - -1 _ 1�2) m II �1 7/8" SDL f---� Maonum Double Hung Sinole Glaze 3/4' 1 l/8" �Y (19) (29) Single Glaze 3/4" Grille 1 1/8" Grille with Energy Panel — �: (29) 1 1/8" SDL E�% - 0 Single Glaze 7/8" SDL with Energy Panel - Grille = Removable interior -divider SDL = Simulated divided lite ADL = Authentic divided lite 7/03 Maonum Historic Double Huno Fn ;"�2 . I Y_/ , I z,;; I I Single Glaze 7/8" SDL with Energy Panel 7/8' (22 7/8" ADL with Energy Panel 7/8" 7/s" 170 ff,4I I 7/8" ADL 7/8" ADL . with Energy Panel 25.10 WOOD DOUBLE HUNG TILT PACS STANDARD SIZES 7/03 Standard Sizes and Ute Patterns le Grille Call #. Sash 78' SOIL 1 1/ 8 SDL (Glass size) Opening 78' ADL 1 7/16 ADL WUHTP1612 1-8X2-6 2W2H 2W1H WDHTP1614 1-8X2-10 2W2H, 2W1H " WDHTP1616 1-8X3-2 2W2H 2W1H WDHTP1618� 1-6X3-6. 2W2H 2W2H WDHTP1620 1-8X3-10 2W2H 2W2H WDHTP1622 V=8 X'4-2 '2W211 ;.2W2H ii WDHTP1624 1-8 X 4-6 2W2H 2W2H ' WDHTP1626 ; .1-8X,4-10' `2W2H • :.2W2H y WDHTP1628 1-8X5-2 2W2H! 2W2H WDHTP 1630 1-8 X 5-6 `, ; 2W2H , :: 2W2H. ,- WDHTP1632 1-8 X 5-10 2W3H 2W3H WDHTP1634' 1-8 X 6-2 `-, :2W3H,,` 2W3H ; WDHTP1636 1-8X6-6 2W3H 2W3H WUH 1 P2012 2-0 X 27-6,. 3W21-1--. . 2W 1 H WDHTP2014 2-0 X 2-10 3W21-1 MH WDHTP2016 2-0X3-2,:-< 3W2H 2W1H" WDHTP2018 2-0 X 3-6 3W2H 2W2H WDHTP2020' 2-0 X 3-10 ' .3W2H'- ': 2W2H' WDHTP2022 2-0 X 4-2 3W2Hs ` 2W2H WDHTP2024 `. 2-0X4-6: :.3W214 'MH'' WDHTP2026 2-0 X 4-10 3W2H MH WDHTP2028` 2-0X.5-2 ` `3W2H,` z' .:2W2H;' WDHTP2030 2-0 X 5-6 3W21-1 2W2H WDHTP2032 2-0 X 5-10; _ 3W3H 2W3H WDHTP2034 2-0 X 6-2 3W3H 2W3H WDHTP2036' 2-0X 6-6 °." 'MM`` '_:2W3H WUH VP2412 2-4 X 2-6 3W2H MH WDHTP2414,; 2-4X2-10 :3W2H.' 3W1 H. WDHTP2416 2-4 X 3-2 3W21-1 MH WDHTP2418" 2-4X3-6,'; '.3W2H ; :3W2H r WDHTP2420 - 2-4 X'3' -1'O 3W2H 3W21-1 WDHTP2422: 2-4X4-2'." .,I W2H; 3W2H WDHTP24245 2-4 X 4-6 3W21-1 3W2H WDHTP2426' 2-4X4=10 3W2H:: ','3W2H:-' WDHTP2428 2-4 X 5-2 3W21-1 3W21-1 WDHTP2430 2-4 X 5-6 -, - 3W21-1 3W2H, WDHTP2432 2-4 X 5-10 3W3H 3W3H WDHTP2434 2-4X6-2: " 3W3H 3W3H WDHTP2436 2-4 X 6-6 3W3H 3W3H WDHTP2612 2-6X2-6 3W2H 3W1H. WDHTP2614 2-6X2-10 3W21-1 MH WDHTP2616 2-6 X 3-2 3W2H MH WDHTP2618 2-6 X 3-6 3W2H 3W21-1 WDHTP2620 2-6X3-10 3W21-1 3W2H , WDHTP2622 2-6 X 4-2 3W21-1 3W2H WDHTP2624 2-6 X 4-6 3W2H 3W2H WDHTP2626 2-6 X 4-10 3W2H 3W2H WDHTP2628 2-6 X 5-2, - 3W2H', : 3W2H WDHTP2630 2-6 X 5-6 3W2H 3W2H WDHTP2632 2-6X5-10 ' 3W3H: 3W3H WDHTP2634 2-6 X 6-2 3W31-1 3W3H WDHTP2636 2-6 X 6-6 3W3H .. ' 3W3H - 7/03 Standard Sizes and Ute Patterns 25.11 MARVIN-01 Windows and Doors Made Foryou: Call # (Glass size) WUH I P4012 WDHTP4014 WDHTP4016 WDHTP4018 WDHTP4020 WDHTP4022 WDHTP4024 WDHTP4026 WDHTP4028 WDHTP4030 WDHTP4032 .WDHTP4034' WDHTP4036 Sash Opening 3-8 X 2-6 3-8 X 2-10 3-8 X 3-2 3-8X3-6 3-8 X3-10 3-8 X 4=2 3-8 X 4-6 3-8 X 4-10• 3-8 X 5-2 3-8 X 6-6 3-8X5-10 3-8 X 6-2 3-8 X 6-6 3/4' Grille 718" SOL 78" ADL 4W2H 4W2H 4W2H 4W2H 4W2H 4W2H . 4W2H 4W2H, 4W2H 4W2H. 4W3H 4W3H 4W3H 1 18 Grille 1 1/8 SDL 17116 ADL 4W1H 4W1H 4W1H 4W2H 4W2H "4W2H 4W2H 4W2H 4W2H 4W2H 4W3H 4W3H 4W3H' 1 1/8 Grille 3/4' Grille 1 1/8 SDL Call # Sash 78" SDL (IG Only) (Glass size) Opening 78' ADL 17/16 ADL WUH I P2812 2-8 X 2-6 3W2H 3W1 H WDHTP2814 2-8 X 2-10 3W2H 3W1H . WDHTP2816 2-8X3-2 3W2H 3W1H WDHTP2818 2-8 X 3-6 3W2H, 3W2H WDHTP2820 2-8 x3- 1 1 o 3W2H 3W2H . WDHTP2822 .- 2, 8 X 4=2, ,3W2H',' 3W2H WDHTP2824 2-8 X 4-6 3W2H 3W2H WDHTP2826 2-8 X 4-10;- 3W2H 3W2H, WDHTP2828 2-8 X 5-2 3W2H 3W2H WDHTP2830 2-8X5-6: 3W2H;`. '.3W2H WDHTP2832 2-8 X 5-16 3W3H 3W3H WDHTP2834 . 2-8 X 6-2 ', 3W3H' : '3W3H WDHTP2836 2-8 X 6-6 3W3H 3W3H WUH I P3012 2-10 X 2-6 3W21-1 3W1H WDHTP3014 2-10X2-10 3W2H 3W1 H WDHTP3.016_„ 2-10 X 3-2 3W2H;- ', 3W1H , - WDHTP3018 2-10 X 3-6 3W2H 3W2H WDHTP3020 2-10X3-10 ,3W2H, .3W2H ' WDHTP3022 2-10 X 4-2 3W2H 3W2H WDHTP3024, 2-10X4 6 - '-3W2H ; :'3W2H ' WDHTP3026 2-10X4-10 3W2H 3W2H WDHTP3028 2-10X5-2-' -3W2H" 3W2H. WDHTP3030 2-10X5-6 3W2H 3W2H WDHTP3032 2-116X5-10 .3W3H > ;' 3W3H WDHTP3034 2-10X6-2 3W3H 3W3H ,WDHTP3036 2-10X6-15'. ,.3W3H„ ` 3W3H - WUHiP3212 3-0X2-6 4W2H MH WDHTP3214' 3-0 X 2-10 ' 4W21-1 ; ;.: MH WDHTP3216 3-0X3-2 4W21-1 3W1H WDHTP3218 3-0 X 3-6' �: 4W2H, 3W2H WDHTP3226 3-0 X 3-10 4W2H 3W2H WDHTP3222. 3-O X 4-2 '' :4W2H ; 3W2H WDHTP3224 3-0 X 4-6 4W2H 3W2H WDHTP3226, 3-0 X 4-10 - 4W2H :; .: 3W2H WDHTP3228 3-0 X 5-2 4W2H 3W2H WDHTP3230. 3-0 X 5-6:1' 4W2H =' 3W2H . WDHTP3232 3-0 X 5-10 _ 4W3H 3W3H WDHTP3234 3-0 X 6-2 4W3H' 3W3H WDHTP3236 3-0 X 6-6 4W3H 3W3H WDHTP3612 3-4 X 2-6 . 4W2H MH WDHTP3614 3-4 X 2-10 4W2H 3W1H WDHTP3616. 3-4 X 3-2 4W2H MH WDHTP3618 3-4 X 3-6 4W2H 3W2H WDHTP3620 3-4 X 3-10 4W21-1, 3W2H WDHTP3622 3-4 X 4-2 4W2H 3W2H WDHTP3624 3-4 X 4-6' 4W2H 3W2H ' WDHTP3626 3-4 X 4-10 4W2H 3W2H WDHTP3628 3-4 X 5-2 4W2H'. .3W2H WDHTP3630 3-4 X 5-6 4W2H 3W2H WDHTP3632 3-4 X 5-10 4W3H' 3W3H WDHTP3634 3-4 X 6-2 4W3H 3W3H WDHTP3636 , 3-4 X 6-6 4W3H 3W3H 25.11 MARVIN-01 Windows and Doors Made Foryou: Call # (Glass size) WUH I P4012 WDHTP4014 WDHTP4016 WDHTP4018 WDHTP4020 WDHTP4022 WDHTP4024 WDHTP4026 WDHTP4028 WDHTP4030 WDHTP4032 .WDHTP4034' WDHTP4036 Sash Opening 3-8 X 2-6 3-8 X 2-10 3-8 X 3-2 3-8X3-6 3-8 X3-10 3-8 X 4=2 3-8 X 4-6 3-8 X 4-10• 3-8 X 5-2 3-8 X 6-6 3-8X5-10 3-8 X 6-2 3-8 X 6-6 3/4' Grille 718" SOL 78" ADL 4W2H 4W2H 4W2H 4W2H 4W2H 4W2H . 4W2H 4W2H, 4W2H 4W2H. 4W3H 4W3H 4W3H 1 18 Grille 1 1/8 SDL 17116 ADL 4W1H 4W1H 4W1H 4W2H 4W2H "4W2H 4W2H 4W2H 4W2H 4W2H 4W3H 4W3H 4W3H' ENDERLE: GEORGE ENDERLE Version 6.082 11106/06 PRICES LISTED IN USD QUOTE: 00000001 =:WY: 1 MARK UNIT - WOOD DOUBLE HUNG TILT PAC SASH OPENING 37" X 85" ** OVERSIZED UNIT ** INSULATED GLASS - I LITE CLEAR SPECIAL BEVEL - 10 DEGREE SATIN TAUPE SASH LOCK BARE PINE INTERIOR PRIMED PINE EXTERIOR TOTAL PRICE V AS VIEWED FROM THE EXTERIOR PAGE 1 466.64 0.00 21.28 0.00 0.00 13.68 501.60 P If. MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND & SAINT JOSEPH COUNTY January 28, 2008 13th floor conference room County -City Building, South Bend, Indiana Members Present: David Sassano, Todd Zeiger, Timothy Klusczinski, Lynn Patrick, Linda Riley, Mary Jane Chase Members Absent: Jerry Ujdak Staff Present: Catherine Hostetler, Amy Herdman, Larry Metiever (New Attorney), Aladean DeRose (Interim'Attomey) Also Present: Don Sporleder, R.E. Rodes, Georges Enderle, Joann Sporleder, Alison Credi, Michael Dregits, Mikki Dobski CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL: President Tim Klusczinski called to order at 7:02 Klusczinski: I ask for a vote to suspend the agenda for consideration of Commissioner Recognition; may I have a motion, please. In a motion by Mary Jane Chase and a second Linda Riley, it passed unanimously. Klusczinski: I'll sponsor the following resolution: Resolution OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND AND SAINT IOSEPH COUNTY7. INDIANA, At the January 28, 20o8 Meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend and Saint Joseph County: Whereas: Joann Sporleder has served this Commission, and has generously donated services which were highly useful to citizens of Saint Joseph County, and the City of South Bend; Whereas: She has effectively, tirelessly, and responsibly served for thirty-five years as Architectural Historian of the Commission, and as member of the Landmarks, Southhold Awards, Fagade Easements and Standards and Maintenance Committees. Every member of the Commission, as well as, the many citizens whom she has served and assisted, view her with affection and respect; Now Therefore: This Historic Preservation Commission declares that the services volunteered by Joann Sporleder are a significant and material benefit to the citizens of South Bend and Saint Joseph County, and it is proper that her good work be publicly recognized and remembered. Timothy Klusczinski, President Mary Jane Chase, Treasurer Linda Riley David Sassano, Architect Historian Is there a second? Linda Riley: Second Gerald Ujdak, Secretary Todd Zeiger Lynn Patrick, Vice President January z8, zoo8 In a motion by Timothy Klusczinski with a second by Linda Riley, the motion passes unanimously. The chair then recognizes Mikki Dobski-Shidler representing the Mayor of South Bend. Mikki Dobski Shidler: I am representing Mayor Luecke and it is an honor to be here. In light of what you just learned about Joann I have a Key to the City that the Mayor would like to present. The Mayor could not be here tonight because he had to be on the fourth floor, but I feel blessed to be here. And as President Klusczinski said, this is in recognition of not only your 35 years of service but also because Joann was one of the founding members (of the HPC) along with Ruth Price and got the ball rolling like she has for so many things. I really want to say that you have been a real role model for me. She would call and it would always, inevitably be when I was, "Oh I can't believe all this! Things are just not fun!" And you would call with something so neat and interesting to do. So, it is really my pleasure to be able to present this to you. Joann: I have never had such an honor. Thank you so much. My Goodness! 2 Klusczinski: Back to our Agenda, begin public hearing first with Certificate of Appropriateness number 2008-0117. Hostetler: Application Number: 2008-0117 Property Location: 315 W. Northshore Drive Property Owner: Alison and Greg Credi Landmark or District Designation: " W. Northshore LHD Rating: Outstanding STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: This Tudor Revival home was designed by Austin and Shambleau in 1923 for Samuel R. Dunnuck. He served first as bookkeeper for G.E. Meyer & Son', a local building supply and hardware store. After his marriage in 19o8 to Mary Johanna Meyer, granddaughter of the founder, Mr. Dunnuck served as general manager and eventually became president in 1935• APPLICATION ITEMS: The addition of a dormer on the third storey on the alley side (back) of the house. Will have casement window (as originals do) and surrounded by slate to match existing roof. JC Lauber will do the slate roof. Guidelines for W. Northshore: III. STRUCTURES A. Roofs. Preferred: Keep the original shape of the roof. Retain the original roofing material. A special effort should be made to do this when the roof in question is of tile, slate or some other unique material not usually found today. Preserve or replace all architectural features which give the roof its character, such as dormer windows, cupolas, cornices, brackets, chimneys, cresting, weathervanes and special eaves. Permitted: When necessary to replace roofing material, match the original as closely as possible in size, shape and texture. Prohibited:, Do not add, remove or alter features which will change its character or the architectural character of the house. IV. New Construction or additions to existing structures: Preferred: Consider the size, scale, roof lines, etc., in the design of a new structure, so that it will be compatible with its adjacent buildings in particular and will blend with the neighborhood in general. New additions to existing structures must be compatible in scale, building materials and texture to the building to which the addition is made. Retain as much of the original structure as possible so that the addition could be removed without damage to the basic structure and appearance of the building. Prohibited: Do not use asbestos or asphalt siding. Do not use artificial brick or cast stone siding. Do not use glass brick. Structural concrete block may be used only on foundations for new construction or additions. RECOMMENDATION. Staff recommends approval of the dormer. Gabled dormers are a commonly found feature of Tudor style houses and the materials will match the original materials of the house, i.e. the slates and casement windows. The addition of this dormer will not be visible from the street and conforms to the guidelines for this district. 3 Hostetler: Mrs. Credi and the Contractor, Mike Dregits are present. Klusczinski: Thank you. Please state your name and address for the record. Dregits: My name is Michael Dregits and the address of the Building is 315 West Northshore Blvd. This is the residence of Dr. and Mrs. Credi. Klusczinski: So, you are making a presentation for the petitioner? Dregits: Yes. I believe that this is just going to add to the character and beauty of the house. There are other dormers on the house, already, existing. This is on the alley side. The roof line that it is going to be applied to is a hipped roof so the gabled dormer's coming out toward the alley and it's all going to be covered in slate. Everything is going to match the existing house. I think that it will add for to the house, rather than detract from the house. Patrick: Just for clarity sake, it doesn't indicate on here which is the alley side. Could you draw or indicate here which view the dormer is going to be on. Dregits: This view right here. He points out the location on the picture. And this dormer right here is actually the two hips going up, right here. So the dormer is going right here. This is going to be a gabled dormer coming out on the hip. You do have other gabled dormers on the house, that are existing right now. I think that it is just going to add to it. Patrick: Nice.............Great Sassano: So the top of the gable goes up, your elevation shows the top of the gable into the small little gable that's currently there? Dregits: No, it's actually about two feet below the existing roof line. It isn't a gable there, it's a hip. Sassano: This isn't drawn to scale? Dregits: This is pretty much to scale, but it is not done by an architect, obviously. Sassano: But you see what I am saying, this line is above the... Dregits: That line is not above the hip line, not above the existing ridge of the house, it's below that. Klusczinski: Any other questions for the petitioner? Riley: Are you just doing this to add light? Dregits: It's actually adding living space; and you have to have an escape route from the third floor. Sassano: The side walls of the gable are how? The exposed side walls... Dregits: Slate I Sassano: So you are going to have the slate roof and the slate is going to come down the sides. Dregits: Yes. Klusczinski: Any other questions? Patrick: What is the cost of this project? Dregits: Fifty thousand. Patrick: Fifty Thousand? Sassano: Are you going to try to use the tapered slate? Dregits: The project also includes the second floor bath, and slate is not inexpensive. Sassano: Are you going to match the multi colored sort of tapered slate? Dregits: As best as possible. Mrs. Credl: If I could speak to that; JC Lauber has been taking care of the roof for about ten years. Before that the person that replaced one of the slates used a different, thinner slate; and so I found J C Lauber actually puts on slate that matches the existing. Klusczinski: Chair opens up for Commission discussion; any discussion? Hearing none, the Chair opens up public hearing. Is there any member of the public wishing to speak in support of the current petition? Seeing, hearing none, is there any member of the public 4 wishing to speak in opposition of the current petition? Also seeing, hearing none, chair closes public hearing. Would any one care to make a motion? Riley: I make a motion that we accept this proposal as presented... application 2008-0117. Chase: Second.. In a motion made by Linda Riley with a second by Mary Jane Chase the Commission voted to approve COA 2008-0117 with a unanimous vote of 6. Lynn Patrick recused herself because there was a quorum. VJusczinski: Continuance of Certificate of Appropriateness 2007-1107A. Catherine could you re read that for us, please. Hostetler: Sure. Application Number: COA# 2007-1107 Property Location: 710 Park Avenue Property Owner: Georges Enderle Landmark or District Designation: Local Landmark, Chapin Park LHD/NR Rating: Outstanding STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE(HISTORIC CONTEXT: This Eclectic Italianate was built for Mary Chapin Anderson and Andrew Anderson between 1875 and 1877. Four generations of the Anderson -Du Shane family lived in this house until 1962. This is one of the most significant residential architectural structures in the city of South Bend and in Chapin Park. I APPLICATION ITEMS:. Four Marvin replacement windows in the bay area, wood ultimate insert double hung, double pane, upgraded to Low E 11 with Argon gas. Per letter and specifications submitted. RECOMMENDATION: Staff can not recommend approval as the windows are not deteriorated beyond repair and can be restored in-situ in this significant architectural landmark. These are the same windows that were applied for in COAs 2006-1108A and 2007-0905A which the Commission denied. Klusczinski: Thank you. Members of the Commission, we are under a continuance, for those of you who did not attend the meeting on November 19, 2007, we were unable to take action. We had two that abstained from the vote, we had two that voted in the negative and two that voted, in the affirmative. We took a couple of passes at it and arrived at the same results. We typically would have'taken action at the December meeting; we were asked by counsel representing the petitioner to hold off so that he could review the case and make a presentation to this commission. In doing so, they waived the 60 day period that we normally would be obligated to act within. So, tonight, we are here not to hear public testimony, since we have already done that part', you are going to have to scratch your brain or review the minutes for what was done on November 19; but to hear the additional legal testimony from the petitioner's counsel. Rodes: I am Robert Rodes attorney for the applicant. My contention here is that the proposal will not change the appearance of the house sufficiently to make it within the power of the Commission to turn it down. My claim is ... I prepared a legal memorandum, has it been distributed? (Affirmed) Well then, basically, my claim is that the role of the Commission is to preserve the general ambience both of the building and of the neighborhood. What we are talking about here is a change that will, the most that it will do, is increase the thickness of a window sill by a half an inch. And that will not be visible, that will not be a noticeable change. And I have put together my arguments as to why the, from the language of the Ordinance and the language of the State's statutes as to why I believe the Commission cannot interfere with so minor, so little visible, a change. I think, this is a matter of what is the scope of the Commission's authority and I think the important work of the Commission is to preserve the ambience of the community. And I think, here we have, my client is cold in winter and electricity, source of heats the house, he wants to put in double glazing for comfort and efficiency. I think, changes of this kind are within the... unintelligible ... to historical preservation. Now, I have here arguments, fairly technical from the text of the Ordinance and the State's statutes which I'll be glad to enlarge upon if the Commission wishes, but I shouldn't read something that I have already given out in writing. So I ask the Commissioners... Patrick: Thank you. Rodes: Any ... anything further? Klusczinski: Are there any questions for the petitioner's counsel? Zeiger: A clarification. You said that the only modification, what you just said that it is only going to add a half inch window sill... Rodes: The only visible Zeiger: So in this COA that has been supplied to us, it says that the new width of the daylight opening is 305/8 inches and the existing window sashes are 31 V4 , so that is a decrease in size. So that is a change. In addition to the window sill, as well as the height of the new is 37 3/8 and the existing window is 39, so that is another change. So what you really just represented isn't true. Rodes: I stand corrected. That was my mistake. Zeiger: That is a significant difference between just a half an inch window sill and changes in sash size and window openings size and that's my objection to this COA is that it is significantly changing not only the window sill it is also changing the size of sashes by inserting a completely new unit into this window frame. That is my objection to this COA and why I feel it is not compatible with the guidelines. I appreciate the clarification in that. Rodes: Fair enough, my claim continues to be that it will not be a noticeable change from the outside, from the street, which is what we are looking for the ambience of the building. Also, it will not be a change in the historic or architectural character of the building. That language is in the State statute but... Zeiger: The State statute that clarifies the state statute that runs this Commission or the statewide statute that runs the rest of commissions in the state? r4i Rodes: My contention is that the grandfathering of this Commission is unconstitutional. I have advocates from the Indiana Count of Appeals which will so hold .... that is... Zeiger: You are going to be mounting a constitutional challenge to the Commission in addition to challenging this COA? Rodes: I am. Zeiger: Interesting. I don't think that is germane to our discussion here this evening. Rodes: I have a case ...your attorney will... speak... DeRose: I will, in fact let me speak. Aladean DeRose, Legal Department. What the petitioner is claiming is that both, there is not authority to do what the Commission has proposed to do by the last motion, denying the COA and secondly, and separately, that Commission has been improperly delegated responsibility under State law because it has a code that is different from the rest of the State and there is a Constitutional provision that provides ... a Constitutional provision that requires that all laws be uniformly and generally enforced throughout the State. Those are legal issues that would be addressed to a different forum. They would be addressed to a judicial forum; so that in the event that this case goes further those issues may be determined. But for your purposes, at this time, I don't think you have the power or the authority to determine whether you're acting unconstitutionally or in violation... Rodes: Could I, could I elaborate on that..... DeRose: Well, we could argue about that, I am sure Mr. Rodes wants to make... Zeiger: It is not germane to the COA. Rodes: It's not, it's not.... That ... you can, certainly, follow the state guidelines if you were so minded, there is nothing to stop you from doing so. That counsel has pointed out whether you are obliged to follow them is not a question for this tribunal, but you are certainly at liberty to follow them; it might be wise to do so. Klusczinski: Professor Rodes, did you look at the diagrams for the proposed installation of the replacement option that the petitioner chose? Rodes: I didn't. Ilooked at them but I did not follow them completely because I... Klusczinski: Do you read blueprints? Rodes: Uh... I....ah prob... Klusczinski: Fair enough. I understand. Rodes: Basically, I am making this argument from the practicalities...of my client Klusczinski: And I understand. But what I was trying to draw a correlation to is if you don't know exactly what he proposes to install into the opening how can you assess that it wouldn't detract from the current visual appearance of the building or structure which would lend itself to the historic credibility of a significant local landmark in the Chapin Park historic district? Rodes: Not that, I think that I will, I will defer to my client there. My understanding from, my understanding from him was that it was not plain that there would be a noticeable change in the appearance of the building. Now, if there is such a claim... Klusczinski: We believe there is and I think that that has been a point of contention all the way along. There is a secondary sill that was proposed. Also, as per the guidelines as per all the requirements where we have a precedent set in the local community since 1973 what we have to remain sensitive to, also, is that typically our position has generally been to further artifacts and amenities to historic structures that also lend themselves to the character and preservation of those structures. We believe, I believe, and when I say"we" 7 I mean by majority decision because we did have some dissention in the past, and I'll certainly be honest about that; but I certainly believe that there is rationale and that the existing wooden windows can be restored and the drafty condition exhibited by those windows is a characteristic of some of the glass panels sliding down which is a maintenance issue and not necessarily a course for the replacement of an entire feature in an historic building. So those are some of the other options that we are trying to weigh ourselves through. The house, certainly, is high profile landmark and for whatever reason or purpose for the last 135 plus years the existing windows are intact; which is a rare feature, in and of it self. None of us probably would claim that we are the last people standing in our houses or the last and final owners of our houses; and Professor, you and I both hale from the Chapin Park Historic District and we know that, so I guess in the spirit of stewardship what we are trying to do is to look beyond just a convenience issue for a particular petitioner and also do things in the best interest for the structure in the long term. When I have been able to physically investigate the windows, and we did over a year ago, we convened a committee and we met with Professor Enderle at his residence at least once and maybe up to three times, I think between Staff and members of the Standards and Maintenance Committee, it wasn't apparent to us that the windows are damaged beyond repair or that it's worth setting precedent to allow something that other people in the community have been able to go into compliance with. So, those are some of the issues that we also have to consider. Rodes: Well, I now, I have, I was called into this case to render legal advice and I have tried to limit myself to it. My argument is based on the supposition that the change will not be a notable change that is the language, conspicuous, the word conspicuous appears in the ordinance. And I have.... Klusezinski: But have you investigated, either from a national, state or local level, what affect that has upon a local landmark? Because to some extent everything is ascertainable from the outside appearance; just because you and I could pass by and not necessarily notice it one particular day, doesn't mean it detracts from the market value and the rating of the structure as far as the state goes. Rodes: Now, the word "conspicuous", I have looked at the dictionary meaning of the word "feature" and I don't think these are conspicuous changes or changes in the feature. I don't think that they are changes in the historical or architectural character of the building. Those are the things....now...I think, certainly the Commission is right to look at more authenticity in dealing with the issue trying to reach a compromise with the homeowner and, my client has been in discussion with the Commission Staff for well over a year; and my client is still open more authentic option that is available to meet his needs. But, I think... Klusczinski: Several were presented in the past. Rodes: The ones that have been presented in the past, he has not found acceptable. Now I gather that he was visited by Mr. Ujdak the other day... Klusczinski: Mr. Ujdak is not here to corroborate that, one way or the other. Rodes: He informed me that he was visited by Mr. Ujdak who made another suggestion and certainly my client is open to considering that suggestion even after this is granted. But I don't think or... Klusezinski: Or denied as the case may be ... [End of Tape #1 side A] N. Rodes: But, But my claim is that level of authenticity cannot be coerce -ably imposed. That is, that is, that's basically my claim, I made the argument. I, you asked what I found else... elsewhere, well I went to I went to West Law and, looked up all the terms and found nothing. So, I gather you are making precedent for the whole United States. I couldn't find anything in the legal resources interpreting the any of the terms that are used here. Maybe a better researcher could, but I have not. So, That, that that is basically... DeRose: Mr. Rodes, can I clarify what I understand the argument that I think I understand or hear you to be making that you are making is that the guideline for this particular change, that the guideline exceeds the scope of the authority of the Commission, argument I? Rodes: To impose it coercively, yes DeRose: Argument number 2 is that this Commission is acting pursuant to a law that you think is unconstitutional because it does not apply throughout the State? Rodes: Not exactly. Argument Number 2 is that to the extent that the grandfathering allows the Commission to impose a more onerous burden upon the citizens of South Bend than other Commissions can impose upon other citizens in other communities, it is unconstitutional. DeRose: O.K. Thank you. Rodes: The technicalities of it can be grandfathered. I don't know if you have had a chance to look at the case that I have cited DeRose: I have not ... but at least I understand your argument Rodes: That's the argument: the details can be grandfathered but the ultimate burden on the citizen cannot. Klusczinski: Any other questions? Chase: We did receive you correspondence and I do not have it with me, but I jotted down, if I could address your correspondence to us, I have my notes here, some of the things that you brought up and I would like to address them. You said that the timing of the application was early fall and when we did have the last vote I did abstain and these are my objections because I feel that timing of this, and this has happened in more than one year, the timing is early fall, to take out the windows at that time and repair them would be impossible if this would be in early spring or early summer you are going to have the time of the year to do this. But if you pick the fall you would have the hardship because the cold weather. Rodes: But the claim of hardship is not simply for this winter for all the.... Chase: You said hardship and the other thing that was stated was he did not get enough assistance from the Staff and I think that the staff did everything that they could to be of assistance concerning repair. The materials are of the nineteenth century, repair would be current, new materials. There are epoxies that are better than the wood that is there. That could fix the window, the glass would stay in place, so it wouldn't be, "Go back and use the nineteenth century materials and methods". The other thing would be a very big imposition for Mr. Enderle to put the windows up, if he had storms to put them up all the time. Am I to understand that Mr. Enderle washes all of these windows in the house, himself, he gets up on a ladder, now? This he would probably hire to have done. Rodes: I live in a house which has storm windows when I bought it and I have never put them up in over fourty years. 0 Chase: Well these were stated as some hardships and I don't think that they would be a hardship. But, if you decide to put on a roof and you want to do it in a blazing snowstorm that is not good thinking. If you do what needs to be done at the time of the year that it is feasible, it could be done very easily. Rodes: What I am thinking of are the storm windows, the kind you hang in the fall and you take down in the spring. Hostetler: But, these are the ones we recommended for him. A photograph was presented to Professor Rodes of the interior storm window approved by the Department of the Interior for historic renovation projects from Allied Window, Inc of Cincinnati, Ohio.) Can you see them? Rodes: No. Hostetler: They are the interior ones. Klusczinski: Which are typical of the ones that we would recommend for structures like that would have any difficulty in applying exterior storms. Chase: So I was just answering questions that were in your correspondence. Rodes: As I say, I will leave the technicalities for my client who is here, now and available for questions. I confine myself to the legal arguments. Klusczinski: And I think that is what we are confined to here tonight are the legal arguments. Rodes: That is as far as my expertise goes. I have decided not to get into the technicalities. Klusczinski: In light of what you wrote and what we received and what we reviewed, I think we wanted to establish that there was a great deal of support from this Commission to try to find compromises and alternative solutions; making several visits; doing investigations and finding something that we could achieve energy efficiency with and also preserve the historical integrity of a building that is very important. Rodes: That, there were long discussions which my client was not satisfied. He asked me to raise the legal point and I have done so. My client is here if you wish to.... Enderle: I wish to say a few words. My name is Georges Enderle 710 Park Avenue, the owner of the house. As you know it has been a long process; I started a search with the Commission not in the fall but in July, 2006; and had first meetings with the Commission and was hoping that within three months it would be possible. I could not do it before because I was many months in China. Second: About what Mr. Zeiger said about the big change of the width and the height of the windows, that is not exact, because the difference is not even half an inch in width and in the determined height is one inch higher. Zeiger: What it the precedent, I'm sorry, what is the procedure here for this discussion... Klusczinski: Point of order? DeRose: There's no motion on the table ... so you can... Zeiger: Then I have a question for the owner if I might, Mr. Chairman. Sir, I am reading from your COA which you submitted. Enderle: Yes, exactly, I am reading this, also, the same text. The openings of the window sashes are 30 5/8 and the existing window is 31 1/4, so this is not even a half an inch... Zeiger: But it is a diminishment of size. My question was is this smaller than the existing windows? 10 Zeiger: Plus the 'lz inch at the sill Enderle: Yes Zeiger: So that becomes more than 2 inches difference Enderle: Yes Zeiger: Over 2 inches is a significant change in the windows in my opinion Enderle: But you have the numbers here. And if you look from outside, I wonder if you could see that difference. Zeiger: I can see it. Enderle: The about the cooperation with the Commission, that is my third point. That really I am grateful to Jerry Ujdak, particularly, he came to my house and checked the windows and he said first it is very clear that this window never had exterior storm windows. It would be a shame to push exterior storm windows on my house. That was the position as you know... Klusczinski: That may be, but unfortunately that is hearsay, since Mr. Ujdak isn't here to substantiate... Enderle: Others have, my house never had exterior storms and it's in the minutes. And I was fighting against that from the beginning and your Commission and some Commissioners, Wayne Doolittle first wanted me at first to put exterior storm windows there because I was not allowed to have double paned windows there. Now Mr. Ujdak said two days ago he could find a solution with a double pane ... What I am saying is that I do not have a clear proposal from the Commission up to now which does not force me to put interior storm windows and nor interior storm windows and to force me to have windows with single pane that in my view is inacceptable. That was my third point. Klusczinski: Professor Enderle, I think here on November 19 I read in detail Catherine Hostetler's letter to you that had recommendations from the Commission specifically and Just as a point of clarification the topic on the floor was never whether you were allowed to have two glasses, as you say, or whether or not there was an insulated glass; but every form of insulated double paned glass that you proposed also had an accompanying frame and that additional .window sill with it.. That is a whole different ball of wax... In November, Mr. Ujdak was present and the minutes may reflect that he was aware of a manufacturer that made an encapsulated double paned glass that had an Argon or Krypton filling in it, the could possibly be retro-fitted into your window units. That was proposed but you did not decline or withdraw your COA at that point, you decided to keep this one active. Enderle: Well... Klusczinski So in order for better solution to come into play, the proposal that is on the table today is one that specifically allows yet another frame and an additional sill as you option for thermo efficiency. Enderle: I proposed a test. Remember? Klusezinski: Right. It was a faulty test Enderle: It was not faulty to compare two types of solutions and to see how it works. Klusczinski: What you didn't propose in your test. As far as a constant, was to fix the window that you had. Compare a new double panes window from the factory with the current window of single paned glass that was not repaired. EnderleBostetler: No, No that was not it. Fully repaired by Mr. Schoberg. 11 Enderle: That was the point. Mr. Schoberg was to repair the window as it is because you told me this is not beyond repair. And I say, Okay, Mr. Schoberg, please repair this window with single pane and we take this and compare with my solution my test, Catherine Hostetler Klusczinski: But the single pane will always lose to a double pane unless you introduce a storm window solution. Enderle: Well that was the question... your forced me to put either interior or exterior storm windows and I don't accept that. I am happy that I was fighting against exterior storm windows. If you look, it would be a shame for my house. And I could not understand why some Commissioners wanted me to have exterior storm windows on my house I mean this is, it is not, but I understand that it would destroy the appearance of the house. Klusczinski: It would be less invasive than Enderle: And now we are discussing half inches.....It's a little more disportionate Zeiger: It is more than that ... it's more than a half inch.—The over all affect is 21/8 inches in height and that is a significant change. Klusczinski: Any other questions for the petitioner? Zeiger: The one thing that we talked about, but I don't see explored, was the installation of sash packs where you don't have to have the whole frame where you can replicate the exact size of the windows with what are called Marvin Sash Packs or other similar units—or makes... Enderle: It was on the table Zeiger: It's not what you have applied for. Enderle: The tilt pack could be put into the existing frame work. Plus also proposed by _ Joann Sporleder and I was:.. Klusczinski: Joann Sporleder was a member of this Commission and did not propose anything. Enderle: It was it is in the minutes... Klusczinski: What she suggested was an alternative which did not represent what you proposed on that C of A Enderle: I said yes Zeiger: Have we ever had a COA that had a tilt pack? DeRose: Let me just cut to the chase here. You have a certificate of Appropriateness for this item four Marvin Replacement windows in the bay area wood something or other, insert double hung, double pane upgraded to Low E2 with Argon gas period. That is all that is before the Commission. The only thing that you can take action on tonight. So that is what you need to do. If there are, if that is approved, then fine; if it is disapproved you'll come back with another application. Enderle: May I add one point. I make it brief. I am willing to continue to cooperate with the Commission and I was very pleased that Jerry Ujdak came and we had a good conversation and if I know that I can have the sash as it is but restore with two, double pane and it is acceptable from a quality point of view from a cost point of view, today, I don't know if that is the case and certainly I have time to check that because I am not going to fix the problem now in January or February. We can find out the solution there, but the point made by Professor Rodes, and this is my point, that these are details and I appreciate your advice but I think that you cannot force me to buy one particular window 12 instead of another'solution equally reasonable, more or less. That's my point. I am not saying that tomorrow or immediately I would buy or order those Marvin windows if I can find a solution to which helps me to have double pane windows and also to make sure that wind is not coming through the sashes and the frame, you know that's another problem that has to be fixed. If I have such a solution I am more than happy to do that; but I think that you cannot force me. Patrick: I would like to make a statement. We are not in the habit of forcing people. I am sorry if you feel that we have tried at I any point to force you to do anything. We are just trying to preserve the house, the artistic integrity, the architectural the historic...The fact that we have had so many meetings should be, if nothing else, a sign of our good will and our desire reach a common accord. And I would like to know more about these sash packs. Is that something you could....? Zeiger: When you are done I have a question for the chair and the staff Patrick: I am done. Zeiger: I am just curious; if I could ask Wayne as the staff, or Catherine, when you met with Schoberg did you investigate swapping out the glass itself with dual pane in those sashes? Hostetler: That was in the letter. That was a- recommendation. Zeiger: Has Schoberg looked at the sash with that regard; are the sashes thick enough to swap out the glass itself Doolittle: I wasn't at that meeting. Zeiger: A lot of times you can rout out those sashes and put the dual pane in and line the jambs. And I also had a question because what you are asking us to approve what we have here in front of us and that, what I am hearing you say is if you found a different solution that would preserve the windows that you would do that, if you did that your would have to come back for a different, another COA? DeRose: What I was thinking as you were discussing all this, is that you can withdraw this COA application, you could submit a COA application for one window done as the Commission has suggested, you could then test that window, because I think I hear a sort on consensus that it would be approved if you did it that way and then if you liked it then you could come back and do a COA for the remaining three or come back with this petition if you_ don't like it and then have the Commission rule on it then. So that's an alternative. Enderle: Well my point is that I appreciate your willingness to cooperate, but I have willingness also and I think I have demonstrated that but I think I am forced not to buy Marvin windows. You don't allow me to do that. Well if you do that,,if you can give me' that freedom, then you can vote positively today. But, I am not... Klusczinski: Marvin makes different models and styles of windows. We are not resisting any manufacturer, we resisting your submission of design for that solution. Enderle: No, this is Marvin windows.... Klusczinski: They make more than one window.... Enderle: Of course, it is exactly what is described here. Klusczinski: And we are saying that Marvin probably makes something that we would like more, so we are not trying to discriminate against Marvin, like you said, if I am understanding you correctly. 13 Enderle: This is the second Marvin proposal, I had another first with the aluminum clad that you rejected and I said Okay I understand your concern I go to Marvin back and asking what is the best to do in terms of wood inserts and tilt packs, and here they are. So what else can I do? Hostetler: We have not had a COA application, Dr. Enderle, for a tilt pack or sash inserts. Enderle: But my question is how many times do I have to go back to Marvin and what is your competence? I mean, are you a body which gives advices within in some guidelines or are you a body like the lawmakers who says you have to do that. DeRose: I think they are a combination of both; and they have provided you with advice and some suggestions. Enderle: The point that I am making is I need double pane windows. When Doolittle said we could put the second window on top of the old window. Afterwards he told me this is not feasible because the windows are far too big. Okay, I was looking for other things. And then from the Home Depot I went to Marvin to try to find something. I was asked to put exterior storm windows. I found out that this is nonsense. I don't understand why such a proposal could come from your Commission. I was asked to put interior storm windows... well, that is not your competence. DeRose: But that is not what this is. The Commission is not ruling today on an interior storm window. Klusczinski: You would be allowed to do that without our consent because we don't have jurisdiction over the interior. Enderle: That's a hardship to me! To put interior storm windows this is hardship to me, you don't have the competence to say so, you cannot force me. Patrick: May I make a comment? I know that this has been frustrating. And frustrating for us all. Normally, once every two years or so we will have an issue such as this for various reasons. When he talks about the sash packs, right away I felt that everybody felt, "Oh, that could be a solution". Maybe this is something that we should explore and go forward, because I feel confident that our path to the solution lies in continuing to go forward instead of going back over what we have seen is not acceptable to you or to us. Maybe we should go forward and explore this. Riley: Could I ask you something? I thought I heard you say, in the last half hour, that you would be willing to have the whole window completely repaired with a double pane. Enderle: Yes, if the quality is acceptable. I know that it is not possible to put Argon gas inside. Zeiger: You can order custom gas filled panes of glass. Enderle: Second I have to find a solution for those (unintelligible phrasing) sashes and I am saying I am willing to look at that solution and to check the quality and also the price. I am willing to do that. Riley: I'll bet it's cheaper to have it rebuilt and insulted than buying all these windows you want to put in. Enderle: I am willing to do that but my point is how can you force me not to have that solution of Marvin windows? I think you that is my understanding, that you are overstepping your competency.... 14 Klusczinski: Professor, would you be willing to withdraw this particular CofA that is a point of contention and submit one with the encapsulated glass panels that can be retro- fitted into your windows? Enderle: Well, if I come to the conclusion that solution is not as good as the Marvin windows what should I do then? Zeiger: Submit the proof. DeRose: They haven't voted on this one so you could re submit. Rodes: I think what we could look at having another continuance with another holding of the sixty day limit during the continuance. DeRose: I would suggest that you withdraw this petition. Klusczinski: This one will get messy, because this is nothing that we are supposed to look at as far as information; appearance or.....And, I don't think, there's no time issue, that I am aware of, in submitting a brand new CofA. You have the clock restart the same way as you would a Continuance. Enderle: Well my point is that if I go for restoration of sashes with double panes before I make that decision I want to know how much does it costs and what's the quality. That's why I am in favor of a Continuance. If I come to that conclusion you know, I make the proposal; if I don't come conclusion, well, what should I do? Klusezinski: With a Continuance, I'm not sure that its, that we have a fair time advantage on considering it. Rodes: Well, if you Continue this then if we find the alternative is acceptable then we withdraw this and put in a petition for the alternative. If we find no acceptable alternative than this will be before you another time. Enderle: If I give up this... Klusczinski: Any other questions for the petitioner?. Zeiger: I am curious as to our legal counsel's opinion after hearing all of this. Rodes: I was saying that we Continue this for another month that between now and the next month's meeting we come up with an acceptable alternative than we can withdraw this and put in another one. That seems to me... DeRose: As long as you waive, as long as the Commission stili has the power retains their jurisdiction over this application doesn't get stuck with the sixty day.... - Rodes: We hold the sixty day limitation from the last meetings and if we Continue it we hold the sixty days until next time. DeRose: There is certainly nothing illegal about that, you can do that if that made sense to you all. l Klusczinski: Are there any disadvantages to that? DeRose: No, not really. Zeiger: Do we have to outline what these alternatives are that we're expecting to be looked at? DeRose: What he would do, I would think, would be to provide you with another C of A, a second C of A. Rodes: Another acceptable alternative... Zeiger: There are at least two that I would like to see demonstrated as alternatives. And I guess what I am asking is do we have to specify what those are or do we just work with the applicant in between now and then? 15 DeRose: I think, if you want to give directions today, it would probably be helpful, that will shorten the time, certainly. Zeiger: I am all in favor of that. I just asking what we are supposed to do. DeRose/Klusczinski: Yes/ I am in favor of that. Zeiger: What I am throwing out for consideration for the Commission there are at least two that I would like to see strongly investigated that are legitimate options: #1 being retrofitting the existing sash with dual paned gas filled, you can order these windows glass lights; retrofitting the existing sash with new glass and lining the jambs to tighten up the area of infiltration that you may or may not have in that situation. I think that's #1 and Schobergs you've already met with, there's other contractors out there we can provide you with the names. And, the other is, Marvin makes them Kolbe makes them others make them, is tilt pack, that's a brand name, but they are sash inserts. They are brand new sashes, new liners with the filled glass. I think that those are at least two that I would like to see. Klusczinski: And that would eliminate the extra sill. Zeiger: It eliminates the extra sill; it matches the height and width exactly; keeps the size of the glass the same and in the first alternative, keeps the original sash in place which I think is really the goal. So, I put that out for consideration. Klusczinski: Does that seem like an acceptable proposal? Enderle: Well, I mean for the tilt pack, yes. And also the first proposal [End Tape 1 Side B] Patrick: Would it be appropriate for Todd to assist in putting together this CofA A and helping to resource it, since he is more familiar with the product and that might mitigate some of the confusion and misunderstanding from the past? Klusczinski: Let me clarify one thing; is staff not familiar with these alternatives? Hostetler: We are familiar with them Zeiger: I would be glad to assist but, I think Wayne and Catherine have plenty of experiences, as well; but I will be glad to assist their efforts. Patrick: I wanted to try to make sure that the Professor was not out there searching the darkness for this and then coming and finding that it was not what we meant at all. Just trying to make this as easy as possible at this point, as clear, as comfortable, as precise, as effective, as efficient, as economical.... Klusczinski: I almost gaveled you. Riley: Does the Chair recognize someone in the audience? Klusczinski: I recognize everyone in the audience. Bear in mind there are no public comments, but Joann, since you are here... Joann Sporleder: I just wanted to comment on one of the proposals that Todd is suggesting had in fact had been looked at. The problem which can still be investigated of course is that two of the windows the framework is not in good shape [Zeiger: That can be dealt with.] The frame work would need to be rebuilt, basically; it is completely rotted out in the corners on at least two of the windows that I am aware of personally. Zeiger: That is a condition that can be readily dealt with epoxies and repairs. Sassano: How is that dealt with in the current C of A? Zeiger: It's ripped out... Klusczinski: Right....demolition 16 Joann: The current C of A is taking all of the windows out and replacing them and the frames, what goes around the window... Zeiger/Sassano: Oh, she means sashes. Sassano: The tilt pack replaces the sash completely. Joann: Right, that option looks from what I understand to be fairly good. But rebuilding the existing thing that holds in the glass....the sash ... doesn't look like a good idea to me for two reasons one because of the completely rotted out wood in two of the windows and because there was some concern that the weights in the windows weren't adequate to make proper balance with the heavier windows with the double paned glass. It's a consideration, it's not insurmountable; I just wanted to get it out there that it had already been looked at, at least in part. Zeiger: That information has never been provided to the Commission. I have not seen that information. And sash, if there are eight sash total and only two are rotted that is easily dealt with epoxy and repair and fabrication. And you can put the new glass in there, you can add weight to the window weights, you can buy new weights to go into the window wells. This is all do-able stuff; it is done all over the country in all kinds of old houses all over the place. So, that is why I made my recommendation. DeRose: Well, it appears that the petitioner is willing to Continue on this C of A. Klusczinski: Do we need action from this Board that they are willing to accept this Continuance with these conditions? DeRose: We have hand written notes. We have a written waiver of statutory time period and if Professor Enderle or Professor Rodes, his legal representative is willing to sign this, I think that we can proceed. Klusczinski: Do we have consensus on the Board that we are willing to fore go action tonight. Zeiger: So moved. Chase: Second. In a motion by Todd Zeiger with a Second by Mary Jane Chase the Commission voted unanimously to fore go action tonight and Continue COA 2007-1107. [Professor Rodes signs the Waiver] Klusczinski: Thank you, gentlemen. Public hearing is closed. Moving onward to Regular Business and the Approval of Minutes from December 17, 2007. Riley: So moved. Patrick: Second. In a motion by Linda Riley and with a second by Lynn Patrick the minutes were approved unanimously. Zeiger: I make a motion that we approve the minutes of the special meeting of January 25, 2008. Chase: Second In a motion by Todd Zeiger with a second by Mary Jane Chase the minutes were approved unanimously. Klusczinski: Treasurer's Report Chase: You have the report in your packets on the green paper. I have read it over and approve. If you have any questions ask our Director. Klusczinski: I need a motion to approve the treasure's budget, location report. Riley: So moved. 17 Zeiger: Second. In a motion by Linda Riley and with a second by Todd Zeiger the Commission voted unanimously to accept the Treasurer's report. President's Report: Distributed to Commissioners. Committee assignments were distributed with the caveat that there may be changes as new Commissioners are appointed by the Mayor and the County Commissioners. With regards to the standing committee only by a vote of the entire Commission can a task be given to a committee for study. There was a lengthy discussion on the 2008 Goals and especially on Commissioner CLG requirements to attend seminars. During the course of that discussion Todd Zeiger said that Historic Landmarks Foundation of Indiana could put on workshops for the Commission, a half an hour or an hour before the meetings or at lunch, if the Commissioners would submit their ideas to Catherine Hostetler. C of A Approvals: Fourth Quarter Staff Approvals distributed via Commissioner packets. Director's Report: Hard copy distributed to Commissioners. Assistant Director's Report: Hard copy distributed to Commissioners. Legal: Assistant City Attorney, Aladean DeRose introduced Larry Metiever as the Commission's permanent City Attorney. Larry has past experience with Elkhart County's Historic Preservation Commission. New Business: The Director presented the Preservation Specialist's Contract for Commission approval. In a motion by Todd Zeiger with a second by Mary Jane Chase the Commission voted unanimously to approve the contract. Assistant Director gave a brief presentation on the Preserve America Community and its importance to the Commission for future grant opportunities. [End Tape 2 Side A] Commissioner Recognition: President Klusczinski said that Martha Choitz will be recognized for her years of service on the Commission when she returns from Florida in the spring. Also, President Klusczinski wants to seek funding sources for a professional review and overhaul of the Preservation Plan into a more useful and user friendly document. Todd Zeiger also said that a portion of the proceeds from the sale of the Surveys could be used to finance the Preservation Plan. He estimated about $15,000.00 would be needed for someone to review and do the Preservation Plan with the possibility of a matching grant from DHPA to net $30,000.00 to do the job really well. Todd also said that since the Commission is a Certified Local Government means that the State has already certified its Ordinance "is in line". President Klusczinski asked for a "vote of consensus to do something with the Preservation Plan of use to the Commission at some point in the future perhaps using the proceeds from the sale of the survey booklets". In a motion by Todd Zeiger and with a second by Mary Jane Chase the Commission voted unanimously to approve the motion. President Klusczinski then asked the Commission to "charge the Historic Districts Committee with pursuing the LHD liaison committee or reactivating those individuals or activating new ones or doing whatever we have to get some representatives from these districts." In a motion by Todd Zeiger with a second by Mary Jane Chase the motion was approved unanimously by Commission. President HIusczinski: And the Advisory Board, does that seem like a legitimate use for the Advisory Board, something that they might be able to help us with or at least find an opportunity to become engaged right now and use their resources to assist us. [President's Report: As budget cuts are perhaps our greatest obstacles in satisfying local preservation needs while limiting our operating efficiency, I recommend that we task the Advisory Board to find creative solutions intended to reduce the impact of these budgetary constraints. This includes but is not limited to: marketing concepts and assistance in the sale and distribution of County and City Survey Booklets.] Zeiger: I think it's a great idea. Klusczinski: Chair entertains a motion. We are charging them to action as far as marketing and -fund raising. Patrick: I was thinking that with Restore Michiana coming up that's something that we can get people showing up to help out, getting involved. Klusczinski: Now they could do that individually. I don't know if they could be required to do that as an Advisory Board... Patrick: I'd like to spearhead this and drag other people along with me if I may. I am - very interested in this... In motion by Todd Zeiger with a second by Mary Jane Chase the motion was passed unanimously by the Commissioners. Assistant Director Amy Herdman announced that Restore Michiana will be on March 8, 2008 at St. Joseph High School. By doing the graphics for the mailer Amy estimates that she will save two-thirds the cost of design and printing over last year. She also utilized the surveys from last year's Restore Michiana to determine the work shops and to arrange for a Round Table style lunch with the speakers. She is also building a website which will take registrations on-line. She also said that the staff at St. Joseph High School was very helpful and gracious. Hearing of Visitors: Don Sporleder as a member of the board for the Northern Indiana Center for History commented on the move of the Sons of Israel Synagogue to the NICH Campus. The U.S. 19 Green Council made a presentation at the University of Notre Dame School of Architecture. Existing buildings and restoration are now areas for LEEDS certification. Joann Sporleder said that she did go into the vault of the Presbyterian Church to look for blue prints of the former church (now Ambassadors for Christ) and wasn't able to find anything that looked like them. She said that she would look again. She thanked the Commission again and said that she enjoyed her 35 years on the Commission most of the time and wished the Commission good luck. Zeiger: Motion to adjourn. Riley: Second The motion to adjourn passed unanimously at 8:50 p.m. Attest: Date: Gerald Ujdak, Secretary 20 Location Budget as of 01-31-2008 Note: Includes transactions after the last posted date of 01-01-2008. Fund: 001 County General for 01/01/2008 thru 01/31/2008 Loc: 037 Historic Preservation Account Original Addt'VAdj Object Description Appropriation Appropriation 11075 Deputy Director 30,000.00 0.00 000 General GovT. 92.31 92.31 11309 Historic Preservation Admin. 36,050.00 0.00 000 General GovT. 92.31 92.31 10000 Totals ................... ""'• 66,050.00 0.00 21030 Office Supplies 700.00 131.98 000 General GovT. 700.00 700.00 22010 Gas Oil & Lubricants 880.00 63.18 000 General GovT. 845.72 845.72 22120 Garage & Motor Supplies 700.00 0.00 000 General GovT. 700.00 700.00 20000 Totals ",""""""""•"•,,,,,,,,,,,,,,*" 2,280.00 195.16 31070 Other Contractual Services 29,000.00 1,815.50 000 General GovT. 90.73 90.73 32020 Travel 500.00 0.00 000 General GovT. 90.50 90.50 32050 Instruction & Training 900.00 0.00 000 General GovT. 100.00 100.00 32053 Public Relations 1,570.00 0.00 000 General GovT. 100.00 100.00 32200 Telephone 160.00 0.00 000 General GovT. 85.78 100.00 32350 Postage 2,588.00 392.88 000 General GovT. 100.00 100.00 33010 Publication Of Legal Notices 300.00 0.00 000 General GovT. 86.82 86.82 Total Appropriation 30,000.00 36,050.00 66,050.00 831.98 943.18 700.00 2,475.16 30,815.50 500.00 900.00 1,570.00 .160.00 2,980.88 300.00 Saint Joseph County User ID KSOBECKI 02/07/200811:28 AM Page 77 x, Unencumbered Unexpended Encumbrance Expenditure Balance/Percent Balance/Percent 0.00 2,307.70 27,692.30 27,692.30 92.31 92.31 0.00 2,773.08 33,276.92 33,276.92 92.31 92.31 0.00 5,080.78 60,969.22 60,969.22 92.31 92.31 0.00 131.98 700.00 700.00 84.14 84.14 0.00 97.46 845.72 845.72 89.67 89.67 0.00 0.00 700.00 700.00 100.00 100.00 0.00 229.44 2,245.72 2,245.72 90.73 90.73 0.00 2,926.00 27,889.50 27,889.50 90.50 90.50 0.00 0.00 500.00 500.00 100.00 100.00 0.00 0.00 900.00 900.00 100.00 100.00 223.21 0.00 1,346.79 1,570.00 85.78 100.00 0.00 0.00 160.00 160.00 100.00 100.00 0.00 392.88 2,588.00 2,588.00 86.82 86.82 0.00 7.98 292.02 292.02 97.34 97.34 User ID KSOBECKI 02/07/200811:28 AM Page 77 x, Location Budget as of 01-31-2008 Saint Joseph County Note: Includes transactions after the last posted date of 01-01-2008. Fund: 001 County General for 01/01/2008 thru 01/31/2008 Loc: 037 Historic Preservation Account Original Addt'VAdj Total Unencumbered Unexpended Object Description Appropriation Appropriation Appropriation Encumbrance Expenditure Balance/Percent BalancelPercent 33100 Printing 1,200.00 5,528.00 6,728.00 5,528.00 0.00 1,200.00 6,728.00 000 General GovT. 17.84 100.00 37100 Auto Lease 300.00 0.00 300.00 0.00 0.00 300.00 300.00 000 General GovT. 100.00 100.00 39010 Dues & Subscription 300.00 0.00 300.00 0.00 0.00 300.00 300.00 000 General GOVT. 100.00 100.00 39750 Data Processing 400.00 2,208.60 2,608.60 0.00 2,208.60 400.00 400.00 000 General Gov T. 15.33 15.33 30000 Totals """""""""""""""""""" 37,218.00 9,944.98 47,162.98 5,751.21 5,535.46 35,876.31 41,627.52 76.07 88.26 Location Totals ... """"""""""""""""""' 105,548.00 10,140.14 115,688.14 5,751.21 10,845.68 99,091.25 104,842.46 85.65 90.63 Investment Accounts 0.00 Transfer Accounts 0.00 10,845.68 User ID KSOBECKI 02/07/2008 11:28 AM Page 78 Save the Date Preservation Activities October 2007 -October 2008 www.in.p-ov/dnr/historic October 2007 October 24: Historic Preservation Review Board Meeting, Indianapolis. Contact the Division of Historic Presrevation andArchaeology for more information, 317/232-3494. November 2007 November 2-3: Midwest Historical Archaeology Conference, DePaul University, Chicago, IL. httn://condor denaul.edu/anthro/conferences/2007/overview html. November 15: Slavery, the Courts, and the Underground Railroad, Lecture by law historian Dr. Paul Finkelman at the Indiana State Library in Indianapolis, part of the Spirit and Place Festival and made possible by a grant from the Indiana University's Cornelius O'Brien Lecture Series Concerning Historic Preservation. wwwin.cov/dnr/historicleven talk.html. November 23: Annual Meeting of the Center for French Colonial Studies, Lafayette, IN. httD://deDts.noctrl.edu/cfcs/cfcsamualmeeffim.htrnL. December 2007 December 11: Indiana Statehood Day, events in Indianapolis at the State Capitol. Contact the State Capitol Tour Office for more'infommation, 317/233-9830. January 2008 January 23: Historic Preservation Review Board Meeting, Indianapolis. Contact the DHPA for more information, 317/232-3494. February 2008 February is Black History Month. Check with your local historical society or library for events going on in yourcommunity. February22-23: IndianaAssociation of Historians Annual Meeting. For more information, 317-788-2190 March 2008 March is Women's History Month. Check with your local historical society or library for events going on in your community. March 1: Multi -cultural Indiana: Teaching Indiana's Historic Diversity. One -day workshop for educators. For more information, contact the DHPA at 317/234-1268. March 30 -April 2: National Main Streets Conference, Philadelphia, PA. www mainstreetora April 2008 April 23: Historic Preservation Review Board Meeting, Indianapolis. Contact the DHPA for more information, 317/232-3494 April 27 -May 1: AmericanAssociation of MuseumsAnnual Meeting and Museum Expo, Denver, CO. www aam-us.orli May 2008 May: National Historic Preservation Month, statewide events. www in. eov/dnr/historic May 30 - 31: Beginners Cemetery Preservation Workshop, Indianapolis. Contact the DHPA for more information 317/234-1268.. Date TBA: CAMP - Training for Historic Preservation Commission Members and Staff. For more infor- mation, contact the DHPA at 317/232-6981. June 2008 June 19: Juneteenth, statewide events celebrating the emancipation of the enslaved. Contact your local library or historical society for events in your community. June 19-22: Association for Gravestone StudiesAnnual Meeting, Amherst, MA. www.gravestonestudies.org. July 2008 July 16-19: League ofHistoricAmerican Theaters Annual Conference, Boston, MA. wwwlhat.ora. July 23: Historic Preservation Review Board Meeting, Indianapolis. Contact the DHPAfor more informa- tion, 317/232-3494. August 2008 August 30: Advanced Cemetery Preservation Worskshop, Indianapolis. Contact the DHPA for more information, 317/234-1268. September 2008 September: IndianaArchaeology Month, statewide events. wwwin.Lov/dnr/historic/archeomonth.htrnl. October 2008 October 10 -11: National Underground Railroad Conference, Philadelphia. Contact the Underground Railroad Research Institute for more information, www, uari.owJ. October 16 -18: Cornelius O'Brien Conference on Historic Preservation and the Indiana Main Street Conference, Bloomington. Contact the DHPAfor more information, 317/232-3494. DNR r�r INDIANA DIVISION OF Indiana Department of Natural Resources HISTORIC PRESERVATION AND ARCHAEOLOGY ♦8:30 am Registration Opens ♦ 9:00 am Welcome & Overview The Little Theater ♦9:30 -11:00 am SESSION #1 Choose One Classroom A The Great Outdoors Mr Wayne Doolittle, HPC Mr. Brent Thompson, City Forester, South Bend Parks A quick overview of seasonal checklists to keep your home safe and sound, followed by a tree care and landscape primer. Classroom B Plaster and Wall Repair Mr. Paul Hayden, HLH Prepping and priming plaster to ensure smooth, beautiful results when painting, wallpapering, and decorating. The Little Theater New Tools and Toys Mr. Paul Elston, Lowe's Learn about the latest gadgets and implements to make your projects perfect! ♦11:15 -12:15 pm SESSION #2 Choose One Classroom A Masonry Basics Mr. Steve Bognar, Masonry Contractors Keeping your foundation and masonry in top shape can keep a little problem from becoming a BIG problem. Learn the basics. Classroom B Greening An Old House Mr. Todd Zeiger, HLFI The greenest building is one already built. See how easy it is to integrate green building elements into your home. ♦12:15 -12:45 LUNCH Cafeteria Join our presenters in casual, round -table discussions in their area(s) of expertise, or take time to visit our vendors. ♦1:00 - 2:30 pm SESSION #3 Choose One Classroom A Wonderous Walls Mr. Charlie Fazio, Lowe's Ms. April Haliwood, Artist Discover the new line of paint developed with the National Trust for Historic Preservation, followed by faux finishing & other techniques. Classroom B Window Restoration Mr. Dick Spigelmyer, OHN The director of the Old House Network of - Kalamazoo, MI dubunks the myths and shares tips on maintaining your original windows. The Little Theater House Histories Mr. John Kovach, StJCPL Discover all of the local resources available to help you trace the history of your house. ♦2:45 - 3:45 pm SESSION #4 Choose One Classroom A Growing a Great Garden Mr. Wayne Doolittle, HPC Shrubs and seeds and flowers - oh my! Learn what's best to plant & when for our zone. Clasroom B Project Process Mr. Chuck Bulot, Bldg Dept M. Amy Herdman, HPC Discover the process for filing for a Certificate of Appropriateness and a Building Permit and why both are SO important! The Little Theater The Little Theater Tile and Stone Mr. Tom Kaade& Historic Survey Ms. Amanda Jones, HLFI Ms. Kathy Sousleii, Miles Dist. Learn how field surveyors and architecture Learn about proper care and maintenance of professionals assess, rate and evaluate the various surfaces that you may find in and historic_ resources inIn_ diana, _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ aroundyour_house------------------------------------ To Register By Mail: 402 W. Washington St., South Bend, IN 46601 By Fax: 574-232-5549 RESTORE J11(:H1ANA 88 Names) Method of Payment Address Check—Made payable to Credit Card Please register by Historic Landmarks FEBRUARY 29TH Foundation of Indiana Phone Email Address Credit Card # SIC Code (3 digits on back) Registration Fee: $25 - includes boxed lunch Name as it appears on card Turkey &Cheese [:]Roasted Veggie Expiration Date Quantity auanuey Signature Special rate! One year full membership to HLFI - $15.00 Check here to sign up! ❑ 2008 Restore Michiana brought to you by: — FiISTCiI:!r I.2i- l F UI.;\ U \-r10N )F I INDIAN RD P2 C li�turic I�rscnation Gnnmissineti South N1111 << St. 40 (1)11 G UM%. 17H1i,U41 Want to know more about our 2008 speakers? www.restoremichiana.com 299 *ON 1II42I3d NI QNHU HJAOS GMT HDazSod Sri a.LS IUSUd ♦ Please always use common sense and approriate safety gear. *Vendors tables open until 4pm. *Register by: FEBRUARY 29TH. ♦Registration fees cannot be refunded but the courtesy of a call to cancel is appreciated. ♦ Parking at St. Joseph's High School is free! ♦Can't wait to see you there! Tell your neighbors! LLiO�'L�LiL�iLI�ILLI�dO�.S�,i'lviMM K19-17-N7f�L9 I099b NI `P0S 11}110S 400-1}S u049u111SP1V,'M �Oi� PLIPTLIJIPq axo jsax mlaiIAWA 0011 M C313 Practical Preservation Solutions March 8, 2008 St. Joseph's High School South Bend, Indiana 9:00 am - 4:00 pm Printed on 900% recycled paper, with the renewable resource ofplant based ink. Director's Report February, 2008 January 29 County Commissioners Meeting January 31 Membership meeting with the Botanical Society of South Bend February 4 Paula Elliott concerning the Ullery House Local Landmark February 12 ,john Peddycord message left concerning Marquette—No Response to date. Letters to InnKeepers concerning 2009 calendars and meeting on 2/28 February' 13 County Commissioners Meeting February 14. Department Head meeting with County Commissioners concerning the impact of the circuit breaker February 15 Redevelopment Commission meeting concerning the development in the Downtown area near Coveleski Stadium; also the Natatorium as a Civil Rights Museum/IUSB February 19 Meeting with Phil St. Claire, Matthew Moyers, Rick Payton, the new Park's Development Officer, Bob Monroe, Terry DeRosa (Zoo Director), Jan Maciulski, Martha Lewis concerning the Conservatories beyond fiscal year 2008; fund raising activities for 2008. February 20 SherrifPs Sale concerning 728 Leland -repurchased by Deutsch Bank. Watched Live Video of the School Tax Board meeting with SBCSC. Code meeting concerning 723 Park and meeting with Mr. Goetz and his real estate agent. Interview with WNDU on Marquette. PARCs meeting concerning the Conservatories. Meeting with Marti and Jan setting the Agenda for 2/28 BSSB meeting. February 22 Toured NNN's Lindsey Street project. Wayne documented with photos. SOUTH BEND & SAINT JOSEPH COUNTY HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION 235-9798 MEMORANDUM Monday, February 25, 2008 TO: County Commissioners County Auditor and Chief Deputy Auditor DRAFT FROM: Catherine D. Hostetler Director, HPC RE: HPC Budget Funding Sources Personnel Office/Misc. Total Budget $105,548. 66,050. 39,298. County 80,548. 60,050. 20,298. City Grant 25,000. 61000. 19,000. HPC Vehicle This is a Department vehicle used by all members of the HPC staff. 2005 Chevrolet purchased with City Funds. It is serviced at City Garage. Parts and Labor and the Insurance premium paid out of department budget. It is not part of the County's fleet of vehicles. Attornev HPC Attorney is provided by the City Attorney's Office. The City Attorney's Office has not been able to locate a copy of the above arrangement with the City of South Bend. Work Shops and Public Relations: When I became Director in 2004 the function of the Office emphasized becoming a resource center for owners of landmarks and homeowners in historic districts. HPC has sponsored workshops, lectures and Restore Michiana. The fees charged for the workshops are structured to recover the costs of the materials. The lectures are free and the speaker's fees and expenses are covered by grants from Historic Landmarks Foundation of Indiana. Restore Michiana is a joint venture between HPC and HLFI with fees and admission charges replenishing a revolving fund for future Restore Michiana. Since 2006 the Office has recreated the newsletter on a quarterly, The Commission Courier, with Assistant Director Amy Herdman as Editor. I would like to recommend that the newsletter be reduced to three times a vear because of the, increase in postage in May. Survev Books: Every 10-15 years the Department of Historic Preservation and Archaeology conducts the survey of the historic sites and structures in South Bend and St. Joseph County. The 2005 Surveys were funded with 70% of grant monies while the printing of the Surveys were funded with 50% of grant monies from the Department of the Interior, National Park Service, the Indiana Department of Natural Resources, Division of Historic Preservation and Archaeology. The balance of the funding came from the proceeds of the sale of the 1993 Survey Books and from the budget of the HPC. It is anticipated that the proceeds of the sale of the two current survey books will be reserved to secure grants for future surveys and their publication sometime between 2015-2020. I would recommend working with the St. Joseph County Auditor's Office to establish a line item, dedicated to future survev publications funded by the proceeds of the Countv and Citv Survev sales. Fees: The Office of the Historic Preservation Commission currently charges $5.00 for a Staff Approved Certificate of Appropriateness and $10.00 for a Certificate of Appropriateness that would go before the Commission. I would recommend that the Commission consider raising the fees to $10.00 for Staff Approval, and $20.00 for Commission Approval. Assistant Director's Report HPC Meeting — 02/25/2008 ■ Continued planning works on Restore Michiana. ■ Secured $100 sponsorship from Martin's for coffee breaks at Restore Michkana. ■ Discussed new Historic District signs with Marcia Qualls @ Public Works. ■ Attended Code Hearings regarding 319 N William, 620 and 612/614 S Carroll St. ■ Toured the Burke Building. ■ Designed mailer for Restore Michiana. ■ Designed and mailed HPC Newsletter. ■ Met with Common Councilman Henry Davis regarding Monroe Parks and Taylor's Field. ■ Completed Preserve America application for South Bend, resolutions held up at Council level. Applications will be submitted for lune 1St - deadline. Conferred with Steve Nemeth and Mike Eby regarding City Cemetery. ■ Designing volunteer job descriptions etc., for DAR volunteers at City Cemetery. _ ■ Requested inclusion on 3/17/2008 Parbs Board agenda. ■ Redesigning City Cemetery road signs. ■ Took receipt of Troyer Groups site assessment for People's Church. ■ Hung posters regarding RM. ■ Toured NNN redo of 508 Lindsey. ■ Conducted drive through inspection of S Carroll St. properties. ■ Conferred with Monroe Parr neighbors to ensure that deadlines were being met at 620 S Carroll St. HPC and HLFI staff have been given admission to the building on Friday March 7th for set-up. This will alleviate the unpleasant, unorganized and mad scramble that was last year's set up. 2 St. Joseph's cafeteria staff is providing coffee service. That too will be set up the night before, we need only plug in the urns in the morning. 3 Hallway, vendor table, classroom and cafeteria set ups will be faxed to the school next week. Set-ups will be verified the night before. 4 Registered attendees have not been sent confirmations, nor will they require wrist bands this year. As lunch is included, it wasn't necessary to delineate between paid/un-paid lunchers. Also, not mailing another piece of mail saved on postage. 5 Volunteers that wish to help with registration, etc., should plan to be at St. Joseph's High School at 7:30 AM on 3/8/08. Additional information will be sent to you via email or otherwise closer to the date of the event. 6 The schedule of the day is attached. "/ I r ••ata-,^%9?K; i*M�nl+>W`a.pp^mw,%°ty _.m-rgyra-;Oi R+�?�x°yr°ef;e��°aM1eS°eg ♦8:30 am Registration Opens ♦9:00 am Welcome & Overview The Little Theater ♦9:30 -11:00 am SESSION #1 Choose One Classroom A The Great Outdoors Mr Wayne Doolittle, HPC Mr. Brent Thompson, City Forester, South Bend Parks A quick overview of seasonal checklists to keep your home safe and sound, followed by a tree care and landscape primer. Classroom B Plaster and Wall Repair Mr. Paul Hayden, FILE Prepping and priming plaster to ensure smooth, beautiful results when painting, wallpapering, and decorating. The Little Theater NewTools and Toys Mr. Paul Elston, Lowes Learn about the latest gadgets and implements to make your projects perfect! ♦11:15 -12:15 pm SESSION #2 Choose One Classroom A Masonry Basics Mr. Steve Bognar,Masonry Contractors Keeping your foundation and masonry in top shape can keep a little problem from becoming a BIG problem. Learn the basics. Classroom B Greening An Old House Mr. Todd Zeiger, HLFI The greenest building is one already built. See how easy it is to integrate green building techniques into your home. The Little Theater Historic Surveg Ms. Amanda Jones, HLE Learn how field surveyors and architecture professionals assess, rate and evaluate historic resources in Indiana. ♦12:15 -12:45 LUNCH Cafeteria Join our presenters in casual, round- table discussions in their area(s) of expertise, or take time to visit our vendors. 0:00 - 2:30 pm SESSION #3 Choose One Classroom A WonderousWalls Mr. Charlie Fazio, Lowes Ms. April Hallwood, Artist Discover the new line of paint developed with the National Trustfor Historic Preservation, followed by faux finishes and creative painting techniques. Classroom B Window Restoration Mn Dick Spigelmger, OHN The director of the Old House Network of Kalamazoo, MI dubunks the myths and advocates for restoring old windows. The Little Theater House Histories Mr. John Kovach, StJCPL Discover all of the local resources available to help you trace the history of your house. ♦2:45 - 3:45 pm SESSION #4 Choose One Classroom A Growing a Great Garden Ms. Brenda Lee, Lowe's Shrubs and seeds and flowers - oh my! Learn what's best to plant and when in our zone. Clasroom B Project Process Mr. Chuck Bulot, Bldg Dept Ms. Amy Herdman, HPC Discover the process for filing for a Certificate of Appropriateness and a Building Permit and why both are SO important! The Little Theater Tile and Stone Mr. Tom Kaade & Ms. Kathy Sousleg, Miles Dist. Learn about proper care and maintenance of the various surfaces that you may find in and around your house. ¢3 ^F ,..�xa.,. ,... �,a..;,�.,.. •.:f.,i ,R�:u..,'.:..:,-.,,�s,�;.:,. � �..._a. ,, _....,..>_ . � ..,_ ... .. _. ....,,,�_.,«.... .,. ...�„ .<....,. ..r ..,�., x ..,.:_„a .,.....A.., uw.y:,:'"�,-� � 1 -10 SOUTH BEND & SAINT JOSEPH COUNTY HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION FEBRUARY 25, 2008 MEETING GUESTS: PLEASE SIGN THIS LIST SO THAT YOUR PRESENCE CAN BE NOTED FOR OUR MINUTES Print Name, Address SignaWre 1�54 lclltd Aoc (e0,rql2S —rnCt, fq 7/o ff �U/u F)q Fxl/yur- h'lv/'6 4N G 1) 00 C..1 TTLJ,--- MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND & SAINT JOSEPH COUNTY February 25, 2008. _ 13`h Floor Conference Room County — City Building, South Bend, Indiana Members Present: Timothy Klusczinski, Mary Jane Chase, Lynn Patrick, Linda Riley, David Sassano Members Absent: Jerry Ujdak Staff Present: Catherine Hostetler, Wayne Doolittle, Larry Metiever Staff Absent: Amy Herdman, absent due to illness Also Present: Georges Enderle, Paul Hayden, Colin Hodson, Mark Kroll CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL: President Tim Klusczinski called to order at 7:05 pm I. PUBLIC HEARING Application Number: COA# 2008-0214 Property Location: 710 Park Avenue Property Owner: Georges Enderle Landmark or District Designation: Local Landmark, Chapin Park LHD/NR Rating: Outstanding STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: This Eclectic Italianate was built for Mary Chapin Anderson and Andrew Anderson between 1875 and 1877. Four generations of the Anderson-DuShane family lived in this house until 1962. This is one of the most significant residential architectural structures in the city of South Bend and in Chapin Park. APPLICATION ITEMS: Four wood "tilt pacs", double hung (Marvin) in the bay area. Storage of old stashed in a safe place. CHAPIN PARK STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES C. WINDOWS AND DOORS Window and door frames are in most cases wood and vary depending upon the style of the home. Many are double -hung windows with wood trim and sills. Brick structures have stone sills and brick lintels. In some cases where aluminum siding has been applied, the window and door trim has been covered. About half of the structures in the district have aluminum storm windows; the other half have wood storm windows. Required Original windows and doors shall beretained including sashes, lintels, sills, shutters, decorative glass, pediments, hoods and hardware. When deteriorated beyond repair, they shall be replaced with units and trim resembling the original. - Recommended Wood storm windows and doors painted or finished to match the original should be used but should not damage existing frames. If new sashes or doors are installed, the existing or original materials, design and hardware should be used. When metal storm doors are used, they should be painted, anodized or coated to match the existing. When awnings are used, they should be of canvas material. Prohibited Original doors, windows and hardware shall not be discarded when they can be restored and reused in place. New window and door openings, which would alter the scale and proportion of the building, may not be introduced. Inappropriate new window and door features such as metal, vinyl or fiberglass awnings, hoods or aluminum insulating glass combinations that require removal of original windows and doors, shall not be installed. Not Recommended Fake shutters that would detract from the existing character or appearance of the building should not be used. GROUP B LANDMARK STANDARDS B. Treatment: Treatment shall be defined as any change of surface materials that will not alter the style or original form. Such improvements include reproofing, glazing, or landscaping lawns and may involve a change that can potentially enhance or detract from the character of the landmark. A treatment change of any surface whether on the landmark or in its environment may require a Certificate of Appropriateness if it significantly alters the appearance of the landmark. Although these kinds of changes may not require a Building Permit, a Certificate of Appropriateness may be necessary. The commission should review the proposed treatment for character and style consistency with the original surfaces. RECOMMENDATION: The "tilt pac" replacement sashes was one of the options that some Commissioners thought would be a less invasive and more acceptable alternative to a complete window replacement. Staff recommends approval because the "tilt pac" sashes will leave the original window frame in place. Also, the original window sashes will be stored and can be restored and replaced by future homeowners. Klusczinski: Thank you, Professor would you please... ? State your name and address for the record please? Enderle: Georges Enderle, 710 Park Avenue South Bend, Indiana. And so I'm submitting this proposal for the tilt pacs, maybe I should say a few words before. After our last session, in January, I called Mr. Schoberg and he came to my house with his son, and I asked him about the solution of the proposal to retrofit- to restore the existing windows and to add a second pane on the existing window. He told me that he would not do that. I asked him to prepare a quote, and he made a quote for the restoration of my prime window sashes and jambs, plus a quote for the custom wood framed glass inserts for the dining room and another quote for a custom aluminum frame. So, I have that, it's here, it would be between $4400-$4600 for 4 windows. Klusczinski: Did he state a reason that he wouldn't do it? I'm not clear on that part. Enderle: I asked him and he said that he would not do it. Probably for a (unintelligible) of reasons. I don't know. I asked him explicitly you know because it was one of the options that was discussed last time. The second option which was proposed also by Todd Zeiger was the tilt pac Marvin windows. And, I contacted (unintelligle) and also Marvin windows, in particular Bruce. He has been to my house two or three times, and so he knew about that. And that's why I am proposing that solution. To look at the minutes that I got from you, the tilt pac matches height and width of the existing windows, it keeps the size of the glass the same, and it also eliminates the extra sill. And it is about Y2 of the price. Riley: Will you be having the frames around the windows restored? (Interrupting with gavel strikes) Klusczinski: We're not there yet. Ok, are there any other points to your proposal? Enderle: That's it. Klusczinski: Ok. Very well. Chair recognizes Commissioners or Staff with questions for the petitioner. Linda, you had a question. Riley: Yes, I did. Will you be having the frame around the window restored? Enderle: Not at the moment. I'm considering repainting the house within I year. It will be necessary within one year or so. What I'm proposing is to have the sashes of the tilt pacs painted the same color that they are now, but I'll leave the rest as it is for the time being because I think that I need to do that with the repainting of the house which will be necessary within one or two years. Right now, the painting is ok- not on the East side, on the East side there are some critical spots, but otherwise, on the whole it's still in quite good shape. I'm considering that in one or two years I have to think about repainting the whole house. Riley: Might be a better idea to do it now before you put the windows in. Enderle: You mean inside the window? 2 109 Riley: The frames... 110 Enderle: Well inside yes, but outside, I mean... it would be repainted by the whole rest is not 111 painted it remains the same. I certainly would consider that particularly ... the windows, the 112 sashes themselves are in need of repair including paint but around the sashes is not so bad. —3 Riley: Ok. —4 Sassano: I have a question that may be too technical, I don't know ifyou know the answer. 115 Are you going to be using the 15/16s sash or the 13/4s? The Magnum is the 13/4. 116 Enderle: It's not the Magnum. 117 Sassano: Not the Magnum. Did you get the cost for the Magnum? 118 Enderle: It's about $150.00 more. 119 Sassano: Per window. 120 Enderle: That might be necessary for the ones that are bigger windows, now we're just 121 talking about those four windows that are in the bay. 122 Sassano: Which are about 3 x 7, or just about? 123 Enderle: They are, you know, for instance, there is a big window on the west side of the 124 dining room. That would need (unintelligible). 125 Klusczinski: Professor what is the thickness of the existing windows now? 126 Enderle: The thickness....? 127 Klusczinski: Of the sash. 128 Enderle: The sash.... 129 Hostetler: I believe that it's 1 and 3116s. 130 Sassano: Oh, so it's thin? I don't think that it's that thin. 131 Hostetler: We checked it. 132 Sassano: That's thin. 133 Several conversations muddled the recording. 134 Enderle: And that is really not a problem if you retrofit the second glass. I'm not sure if 135 Mr. Schoberg mentioned it or someone else, that it would be too heavy. 136 Unknown speaker: Could be. 17 Sassano: Where will you store them? .8 Enderle: In the basement, I have a big room which is close to the heating, so it will be a 139 good temperature. 140 Sassano: I just wanted to make sure that it's not out in the garage. 141 Enderle: No, it's in the house. 142 Klusczinski: Any other questions for the petitioner? Hearing none, Chair opens discussion 143 among Commissioners. I did have something that I wanted to share. There was some 144 communication that I was engaging in with the state historic preservation organization, 145 David Duvall in particular, some of you might know him. I'll read an email that he wrote 146 regarding this case `...specifically with regard to the Anderson house, since this house is 147 of a rare type and rated Outstanding in the survey, presumably individually eligible for the 148 National Register, and with unique window details, radiused heads, etc., replacement 149 windows would necessarily need to be custom built. Without knowing the level of 150 deterioration, one may presume from the status of the house and its period that they were 151 made from old growth hardwoods. Therefore an equivalent material available today would 152 be premium wood such as mahogany or cypress. Currently harvest poplar wouldn't be 153 sufficiently durable for such an application. Given those considerations, it's diff<cult to 154 believe that replacement would constitute an economical alternative to repair unless the 155 existing windows are profoundly defective. Relative merits of insulated glass, presumed for 156 replacement vs. single pane glass with a storm window, become very (unintelligible) or 157 scientific but generally favor the latter. Especially when long term maintenance is 158 considered. ' -159 Sassano: Could you repeat that last sentence again Tim, I'm sorry. 160 Klusczinski: Yes, Relative merits of insulated glass, presumed for replacement vs. single 1 pane glass with a storm window, become very (unintelligible) or scientific but generally 3 162 favor the latter. Especially when long term maintenance is considered.' By insulated glass 163 I assume that he means encapsulated. Do you want me to go on? Any other thoughts? 164 Sassano: I certainly have a lot of respect for Mr. Duvall, but we are talking about the four 165 simplest windows in the house in that they're four rectangle shapes. I don't think that it's =6 97 any secret that there's going to beat some point in time a grand scheme here. One of the 195 things that I think that we often overlook in these houses is the quality of the glass itself. 168 And oftentimes when we retrofit them it requires discarding the glass. Whether it's to put 169 in a Y inch insulated unit or not. The thing that I like the most about the proposal is that 170 we're saving these sashes. They're going to be there and if a future owner wants to put 171 them back in and go with an interior or exterior storm, to me that's the single most 172 important aspect of what we're doing. And I think once we accomplish the goal of saving 173 the authentic material which is literally just pulling it out of it's, there's literally no 174 construction to the sash itself, then we're left with what's the visual character of the 175 window. And I think that the tilt pac as presented is as close as we're going to get with any 176 kind of a modern thing. Regarding the mahagony, which this offers an option for, I think 177 that there's an assumption there that this window becomes the long term solution. I'm not 178 sure that it's necessarily appropriate to demand a higher quality when I view this as a non - 179 invasive alteration in which the original material is kept fully in tact. That, to me, is the.... 180 Klusczinski: Do you reconcile that with the language in the guidebook? 181 Sassano: Um... 182 Klusczinski: ...for windows that are not yet deteriorated beyond repair? 183 Sassano: I don't. I'm going to plead naivete, this is my second meeting. I have read the 184 guidelines; my familiarity is more with the National Register guidelines and the Secretary 185 of the Interior's standards which are always trying to strike a balance between improved 186 environmental control and maintaining authentic fabric. And, again, the national 187 standards focus more on authentic fabric, I mean, it's important that it's actually 100 years 188 old. And so the saving of authentic fabric is paramount when possible. In this case, the 189 thought is you know, 10 years from now who knows where the technology is, what's the 0 opportunity to do better insulation in the walls with some new material and we can then 1 put the older windows back in and you know the respective loss to the heating and cooling 192 loads could be greatly diminished, who knows? Um, so that's how I'll answer your 193 question- no I don't reconcile it because it says to me, although I've been known for 194 parsing a few words now and then, original doors, windows and hardware shall not be 195 discarded when they can be restored or reused in place. Um, that... well, they're not being 196 discarded. It's open to interpretation. 197 Klusczinski: Well, and the other thing — requirement: original windows and doors shall be 198 retained. And when deteriorated beyond repair implying that would be the replacement 199 option, they shall be replaced with units and trim resembling the original. 200 Sassano: What I'm giving deference to here really is to the glass over the wood. I'd rather 201 see the original glass stored in the basement than removed and discarded to save a] 202 inch piece of wood. I'd rather see that window come back in with its original hand floated 203 glass at some future time and date. I just don't know that we have the jurisdiction to say no 204 you can't do anything. That's where ... uh, can well tell somebody that they're not allowed 205 to improve the energy efficiency of their home, I don't know. 206 Metiever: The short answer is yes. You do have that authority if it detracts from the 207 exterior appearance of the structure. 208 Sassano: Well right see, but I don't think that you can argue that it detracts from the 209 exterior appearance; it only detracts from the original authentic value. And that's where... 210 Klusczinski: And neither would David, keeping the original windows and installing interior 211 storms. That could accomplish the same... --21? Sassano:-0h,-there's no question that there are options; -and againTI don't know that it's 213 our job to direct what has to be done as much as it is to react to what's being proposed. 4 He's submitting the application and we have to react to its appropriateness. 5 Metiever: That's true. 4 216 Sassano: And so 1 just like the idea that we're not precluding other future options here. 217 That to me is very valuable. 218 Klusczinski: You had something Linda? 219 Riley: I'd like to speak in favor of this, I was presently surprised to see that the staff �0 91 recommended this after all that we've been through. When you look at these windows, 249 unless you go right up to these windows and bang them and knock on them, you're not 222 going to know the difference between the ones that they want to put in and the old ones. If 223 you saw the window in his house, some of the window frames that the glass fits in is so 224 rotted that it would have to be replaced anyway. The only difference being you're going to 225 probably have a majority of the wood replaced, you're going to lose the original glass 226 which is wavy and unique. 227 Sassano: No, you can repair that wood without losing the glass, you can epoxy fill that. 228 Riley: Well... 229 Chase: We've brought that up a number of times. 230 Riley: Well, ok, but I would like to see him have an energy efficient house and it's not going 231 to lookfrom the street like... 232 Sassano: I think that it's also important to note that in this area of the house, either for now 233 or for opening to wall opening is significantly, is... in other words there's far more window 234 opening than wall opening. I do think that it's worth noting that when we look at a lot of 235 the other windows there's a lot of wall in this house and I'm not sure that the gain to 236 energy efficiency is going to be as great as sealing cracks, as insulating, as things like that. 237 Throughout the rest of the house, we're looking at a much smaller percent of the openings. 238 But you know I can appreciate the value in this one spot where it's almost all glass. So I do 239 see this as a somewhat unique condition in this house due to percentage of window to wall. 240 Klusczinski: And how would future boards or petitioners differentiate that particular 241 aspect especially when those qualifications aren't spelled out in the guidelines? 242 Sassano: I appreciate your question. 243 Klusczinski: I think that any window in this house is now at libertyfor change because of 4 these four. 5 Sassano: Sure. 246 Klusczinski: If these are original, those are too. 247 Sassano: Sure, I mean precedent is something that we always have to say, I can only offer - 248 that not being terribly familiar with the guidelines until recently, I'm a little surprised to 249 not see a specific set of statements regarding energy efficiency. I can only tell you that in 250 the Secretary of the Interior's standards, it says quite a bit about it. And maybe that's 251 something that we need to consider addressing. 252 Klusczinski: Did you have something to say, or were you... ? 253 Patrick: I'm just listening. 254 Klusczinski: Any one else with comments? 255 Chase: Am I to understand that this proposal would be acceptable to keep the look to the 256 original? 257 Klusczinski: I wouldn't want to comment on that. 258 Chase: And that's just what I needed to know if this proposal is going to duplicate the look 259 that's there with the change in glass to give you double pane and either repairing or 260 replacing pieces of wood. That this is going to solve the security in the home with a 261 warmer window vs changing the sill in all the way we talked. Is this proposal going to be 262 more to the original look? 263 Klusczinski: To each his own. 264 Sassano: My opinion is that visually the lines will be the same. 265 Chase: Ok. --266------------- Sassano: -The sticking point here is how one interprets the guidelines which could suggest -- 267 - that if the window can at all be repaired that it must be repaired. �8 Chase: Well that was our contention, but the problem with that was we didn't know if the _�9 fill pac could go in. 5 Klusczinski: And this is the fill pac. I guess that I'm of the mind still, and until I die, that unless, because of the nature of the windows, because they contribute greatly to the structure and because there are no better matches to the building than the windows that it was constructed with. Unless they're deteriorated, and I think that where they fall short, as far as thermal efficiency and all that which would allow us to guide the public to be able to introduce those solutions and be able to retain the original windows. I don't have enough experience to know what might happen to compromise the aesthetics of this building since it's not yet a National Register landmark in and of itself. And, it right now has it's original 136 year old original windows in it- and a matched set all the way around, 54 windows, something like that. If we start piece mealing this, or if people do, it should be an all or nothing and I'm not sure that I'm comfortable in saying that if it's an all replacement house that it really serves the public or historic preservation for the example.... Sassano: I would argue that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Nothing in our guidelines suggest... Klusczinski: But this would be National Register consideration. And it would be what they would call on it. Sassano: Well, National Register would certainly valuate their review of this based on how much of that material is authentic. Which is why a critical aspect of this is that we save them; and that they're there. And that, should someone in the future want to put this on the National Register and David Duval comes up and says you want the register then you have to put the windows back in, well then ok, they're going back in. Or should he decide that after he puts two tilt pacs in that he doesn't like them and the interior sash isn't such a bad idea after all, there they are. Klusczinski: Or do you know that in the installation process... Sassano: In the installation process that they won'tfit right or will be damaged. The question that I have a hard time answering is when you evaluate whether something requires replacement. What role does inefficiency play in that determination? That's where our guidelines are just unfortunately not clear. Klusczinski: But I think that we do offer latitude to be able to satisfy those things. Sassano: And you're looking at interior storms? Klusczinski: Yes, I am. Any other questions, comments. Chase: I'm just really not clear on this, so ... in suggesting the fill pack, you're still saying this isn't what HPC is looking for? Klusczinski: My opinion and it's not the same as everyone on the Board, my opinion would be is that it conflicts with the guidelines. And it's capable of setting an unfortunate precedent that could undermine many of the suggestions that we would make to support these guidelines in and of themselves. So, I worry about that, and I worry about what this Board's role would be if it wasn't for the retention of original historic features and amenities and parts and pieces of a building that are not deteriorated beyond repair. When I look at this, I don't see us as the pseudo -historic design review committee. I see us the Historic Preservation Board. In my mind, there's a reason beyond just the aesthetics of what we're looking at or what one of us would feel they'd see from a sidewalk view of the building or area in question. I think that what we're trying to do is to preserve a structure of a certain period in time of history with windows that do more than just operate as windows. Its part of a matched set, its part of a building, and it compliments a structure - they are the original Anderson windows. The other Andersons. Chase: Not the Anderson company, the other Andersons... Klusczinski: Yeah, so I look at more than just architectural features, that certainly plays into it. We're historic preservation, we're not historic architecture, there are other things... prominentpeople living in this house, whether or not the original features can or should be retained. -I think that it's in our mission to help that to happen whenever it's - possible. Without that, everything is subject to change. This building inevitably would become something completely different, if the HPC hadn't intervened since 1973 and there weren't other C of As, and because it's such a unique example to... 2 324 Chase: So if they're stored in the basement, is that an acceptable solution? 325 Klusczinski: Well, if they're stored in the basement, I think that legally we have no 326 mechanism for reviewing if that everhappens and to what extent that would satisfy us. It 327 sounds good, and I certainly believe that Dr. Enderle would do it, but what about the next �8 9 owner? And how about if boxes fall onto the sashes? And I think that the nicest way to preserve the windows is to preserve them in place where they can function and satisfy the 330 dwelling. So, I'd rather see them on the house than in the basement because we have no 331 mechanism to make sure to make that happens, nor to make sure that no unfortunate 332 damage from the installation of sash pacs causing maybe the original windows not to go 333 right back in without more and more modifications. So, those are concerns that I have. I . 334 try to standardize my decision making process from within this guidebook. I mentioned 335 before that it's the closest thing that we have to a contract with the neighborhood. And, I 336 did have the availability to sit on the local district standards committee to review this book; 337 in fact that's how I met many of you to begin with. And I know what the logic and the 338 sentiments were coming from the neighborhood at that time, and I know that our panel was 339 composed of people that were both for and against the ordinance in general, but for 340 whatever reason, we came together So with the understanding that windows are worth 341 keeping in place and everyone on our committee back then had no problem seeing that- I 342 don't represent that committee anymore, but I bring that here as an understanding of what 343 the entire district, I guess, found acceptable from the representatives that we had sit on that 344 committee. So, I mean...I'm a windows guy... 345 Sassano: And you make a very eloquent case, I must admit. I want to ask Mr. Enderle, do 346 you currently open the windows? And they operate pretty well? What would you say if I 347 told you that the chances of them opening as well will likely decrease when you put these 348 new ones in because with the pressure bar, there's every likelihood that they will jam. 349 Enderle: What I open, I open the window to the east and so, and I open the door of the 350 house, and the kitchen... 351 Sassano: Of the four windows that you have, do they all open pretty well? fi2 Enderle: No, not all four. �3 Sassano: But that's something that's important to you? 354 Enderle: Yes. 355' Sassano: These new windows likely aren't going to open that well, are you aware of that? 356 Enderle: What I see, I also on the second floor, I can open ... I open the lower sash in winter 357 time and the upper sash in summer time. 358 Sassano: But do you appreciate that your new windows may not open? 359 Enderle: The question is... 360 Sassano: Well, the technology is such that they're going to get stuck. It's not a question of 361- the windows not really fitting, I think that by looking you can see that they're square 362 enough to fit, but they may not be square enough to go up and down. 363 Enderle: That was my concern that I always had, you know. That's why, that was the main . 364 reason that first I proposed the wood insert. Then you have the frame which is squared. . 365 The thing is that the windows and the house is quite stable, I'm amazed to see that, but 366 quite right I can't guarantee if they'll really work. The main point why I want those is for 367 air conditioning. I don't have any air conditioning in my house, and I don't need it. I can 368 do it by opening those two different sashes and it works. 369 Riley: Ifyou can't open these new windows then where are you? 370 Sassano: What we're suggesting and I think that we all agree that what's in the best 371 interest of your house is restoring those windows. I know that you don't believe that, but I 372 think that we.... 373 Enderle: I think that if you restore the windows then you'll have the same question about ---374--------------squared....-------------- -- ------------------ --- -------- 375 Sassano: No, you won't because they're already built and they can easily be adjusted. The —6 thing is ... you see, becauseyou're using a weighted movement, not a pressurized unit, ok, —7 the weighted movement allows the window to go up and down in a non perfectly square - 7 378 unit. I think that we've all experienced in a window that's not open, the window can 379 actually jiggle around a little when it goes up and down. New windows require two 380 perfectly pressurized vinyl tracks and it's the consistency of it's pressure, what happens is 381 it goes up just like that then it sticks. 2 Endele: But then it's not insulating enough. IfI restore it, and maybe they go up and down 3 but there is a space between the sashes and the frame. 384 Sassano: That's easy to insulate with standard weather stripping. 385 Enderle: But I assume that they work, yes. 386 Klusczinski: I'm sure that's something that could be adjusted or remedied too. I'm sure 387 that the frames could be slightly racked or shimmed or something... 388 Sassano: The sash frame or the windows frame? 389 Klusczinski: The window frame. 390 Sassano: What you have to remember is that all of those windows were built on site and 391 they could have been built out of square. I mean, they were carpentry, they didn't order 392 them and off load them off of a truck. So if they're not square, that's how they were built. 393 Klusczinski: So it's an original example of craftsmanship now? 394 Sassano: Well, that was never in doubt. 395 Riley: Did you have a letter that you wanted to read? 396 Klusczinski: I did. 397 Riley: From.... 398 Klusczinski: I slipped it in... 399 Riley: From Joan... 400 Klusczinski: We're not at the public hearing yet. I'll try to hurry up. Very good. Thank 401 you professor. Is there any member of the public willing to speak in support of the 402 petition? Hearing none, seeing none. Is there any member of the public wishing to speak 403 in opposition to the current position? Name and address for the record sir. 404 Hayden: My name is Paul Hayden, and my address is 402 W Washington Street in South 405 Bend. For the last 30 years, I've worked as a restoration contractor in the West :R6 Washington district and the surrounding areas. For the last year I've been a preservation =7 consultant with Historic Landmarks Foundation. I'd like to take this opportunity to let you 408 know that I made a site visit to this property on 10/2/2007. I was able to inspect the 409 windows and sashes for this bay window in question. I just made some notes, and wanted 410 to review those. Sashes appeared to be original on all four, both upper and lower. The 411 corners on the upper sashes were loose so they had dropped down a bit and that was 412 causing gaps. Some of the wood at the bottoms was slightly soft, as some moisture had 413 gotten in there and some of the wood was creating rot. Window glaze was in pretty good to 414 fair condition. There was a minor amount of peeling paint, and I'd say that judging from 415 the amount of peeling, the windows had been painted in about the last five or so years. 416 There was a slight angle at the bottom of the sash where the sash met the sill. There was a 417 little bit of a gap there that would have to be addressed. That was not the fault of the 418 window; the bay has sunk slightly in the foundation. Some missing things were also 419 important- there was no sign of weather stripping on any of the windows. Nor any sign 420 that it had been applied. I didn't find any remnants of storm window hardware, that would 421 indicate to me that a wood storm window was not original. I just wanted to get that out 422 and say that out front. Also, what was a little unusual on these was the lack of a window 423 stop. In typical construction for double hung windows you'd have an upper sash that's 424 held in place by a window stop and then you have the outer casing. There was no window 425 stop on this which was a little different then you would typically see. So, based on that, I 426 want to make a few comments... here's what I feel strongly about; 1. the preservation creed, 427 first, do no harm. Don't tear out something that can be repaired. Leave it in place. Sash —428-----------pacs remove the original sashes; the glass;- the pulley system and damage the window --- 429 jambs. Having worked on houses that have sash pacs that rot and deteriorate over the =0 years, this is a problem that I want to impress upon- most window pulleys are pressed into 1 the sides of the jamb, many contactors just hack them out, they're very difficult to remove N. 432 carefully. It's like porcupine quills, when you pull those out it cracks out the jamb stock. 433 Also not recommended is the new pine wood stock. They're not rot resistant. Existing 434 jamb openings are out of square I think that's problematic. What is recommended in a 435 window of this circumstances? The sashes are old growth poplar. Probably the wood for M6 A7 this house came from within 50 miles or less of this house. Came from forests that were native poplar and were humungous back then. The wood used would have been 100+ 438 years old. That should be retained it's an important part of the house. Of course, the old 439 glass is there, it's wavy; it's irregular, and its part of the history of the house that should be 440 kept. Wood storm windows, or any kind ofstorm windows were not originally on the 441 house. So, I do want to get that out there. However, having worked on federal historic tax 442 credit projects before, those are allowed to be introduced. You would do it in such away 443 with the appropriate historic hardware and do it in such a way that you didn't damage the 444 surrounding window trim. At a later date, ifsomeone wants to remove those they can. I 445 would recommend whether you actually approve replacement windows or restore the 446 existing, slightly jack up the bay. It is tilting towards the west, and it's creating an 447 irregular gap. And finally, I'd recommend weather stripping; it does a whole lot ofgood. 448 My conclusion is that this property is outstanding. It's rated outstanding, it's an important 449 neighborhood, and this is the one that's considered outstanding... one of only several in 450 that neighborhood. We have an obligation to guard that. I would conclude that you need 451 to deny the request for replacement windows. 452 Patrick: Paul, I have one question for you. 453 Hayden: Sure. 454 Patrick: In the storm windows, and I know that you don't want to install them, but I just 455 want to be clear. With the little hinge, they're never actually lifted up and put up and taken 456 down, they just remain in place they just tilt out when you want them to? 457 Hayden: Yes, and that is the option. You could take them down if you need to, or leave 458 them for, and push them out for ventilation, they usually have a handle on the inside, pull 459 them shut and then latch. .�0 Patrick: So the homeowner would have the option of taking them up and down or just 1 kicking them out for ventilation? My neighbor does that on his. 462 Hayden: It's what I've got on my own house. Thank you very much. 463 Klusczinski: Another hand? 464 Hodson: I'm Colin Hodson, and I live at 807 Ashland Avenue in Chapin Park. I want to 465 first say that I'm not an expert in anything that has to do with old homes. However, I was 466 on the second committee for the Chapin Park neighborhood association that worked on the 467 standards, not the final committee that Tim was talking about, but the original body that 468 took examples from other districts and came up with the base set of samples that was 469 finalized into what we have today. I do have kind of a vested interested in that I already 470 have a lot of hours dedicated to the principles that we're hoping to uphold by having those 471 standards in place. That's about the only thing that I have intimate knowledge of other 472 than my visual aid is a certificate that I got when I went to the 3 day workshop on restoring 473 wood, double hung sash windows of the type that we're talking about today. I'm not a 474 particularly handy guy, but what we did was took down, disassembled, restored and 475 replaced 8 ft double hung windows in the old synagogue building, built in 1901. A new 476 one. I understand though that double hung wood windows have not changed a whole lot 477 over the years. I was amazed that the windows we took apart and I worked with a 19 year 478 old girl, the two of us with the guidance of Bob Yapp, in one weekend, the two of us who 479 had never done that before completed the window. I was amazed and astounded by what 480 you can do. The techniques we used make the windows fit a little better. Since I did the 481 seminar back in 2005, I've restored a number of the windows in my house, not all of them --482--- or as many as I should have, -but I've done them - We've repaired some pretty extensive - 483 damage. When we got finished with it, _ it took two or three people to get those =4 counterweights back in and that top sash all the way up. The tops ofsashes are an arch. =5 When we got done they were just beautiful, some of them had, uh... well, that's irrelevant, 0 486 go by and see the building, the other thing that I want to talk about is practicality. The fact 487 is if Mr. Enderle ever moves out of his house then any guarantees that the windows might 488 be preserved is gone. The practical fact of the matter is that ifI moved into a house and by 489 the way, I want to thank Mr. Enderle for buying and preserving that house, it's beautiful. I =0 wish my house was as beautiful as yours, but it never will be. My house is more value N* 1 because it's as beautiful, and the neighborhood benefits because it's beautiful. The point 492 that I wanted to make was that ifI bought that house or someone else bought it from Dr. 493 Enderle, it may just be a dusty pile of junk to me. I might stack my books on it, or it might 494 get knocked over by the kids when they're playing down there, and I'm going to sweep it all 495 out into the bin behind the house and that will be the last that we ever see of that. If you 496 want to preserve something, leave it where it is, and that would probably be the best way to 497 preserve it, that's just my practical viewpoint. 498 Klusczinski: Thank you. 499 Chase: I think you're bringing up epoxy is so important because it seems to be a point of 500 disbelieffor so many people. That you can repair it better than it was. Many people just 501 don't believe it. They think that glue is glue and putty is putty, but not what they do with 502 windows. 503 Hodson: In fact, I have a fireplace in the inglenook in the entrance to my house and 504 someone had broken out some of the brick that fronts it. I got a different version of that 505 epoxy and I just kind of pasted it in there, after cleaning the brick and chiseled and sanded 506 it and even put the grout line in and you can't even tell it. It's amazing. 507 Kroll: My name is Mark Kroll and I live at 819 Park Avenue, South Bend. I've been a 508 contractor since 1968 and sometime in the mid -80s I started specializing in old home 509 restoration. I've restored hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of windows. And, just 510 like the last gentleman said, restoring windows is one of the easiest things. Any carpenter 511 with just modest skills can restore an old wood window properly, and they will work like 512 brand new. Lift up and down.with one finger. They seal well, they insulate well, the 513 addition of screens and storms whether they're inside or outside will give you your r J 4 insulation factor. You know, you have in your guidebook, on page 81, it says in case of 5 structures located within the district that are designated individually as landmarks, the 516 most restrictive guidelines shall apply. We know we're talking about 4 windows today, but 517 we're not, we're not just talking about every window in that house, but in that 518 neighborhood. If a house of that significance is allowed, to replace with something that 519 isn't exactly the same, and I've worked with those Marvin windows on jobs and I'll tell you 520 the jobs that we used them on were houses that were burned and in the ghetto. It's not a 521 very good product. I've never been happy with them, and just as Mr. Sassano talked about, 522 the operation with them, a new unit in an old frame is bound to have problems. Somebody 523 will slam a door and the top sash will come down, I mean you know you're constantly 524 going out to readjust the tension on those jamb liners. Remember, you're putting metal 525 jamb liners into wood, and that is visible from the outside. Like Paul Hayden mentioned, 526 the only way that you're getting that jamb liner is to pull those pulleys out, and somewhere 527 it says that you're to maintain the hardware not just the, the hardware parts. You're not 528 going to have the same hardware parts. Those are probably going to get destroyed in the 529 process. Let's see, I have done work on this house for the previous owner and I was asked 530 about the windows, not asked for an estimate at that time but for my opinion, but my 531 opinion then and now is that they're very restorable, they're no where near the state of 532 some that we've... we had a mill shop we could build sash and have built sash. We've done 533 additions on historic homes where we would match the sash and build it exactly like the ret 534 of the house. These windows will stick out like a sore thumb, I guarantee you that. You 535 walk by, you are going to know, and then once you have that, now what do we do? As Mr. 536--------- Klusczinski said, it's really an all or nothing thing.- It's not going to have the same ---- -- - 537 appearance, I guarantee you that. You're going to see those metal jamb liners. Like I say, =8 we used to build wood storms, some people wanted them inside, some outside, we could fit ;.-9 them however. The nice thing about storms is even if they're not original to the structure 10 they're a temporary thing, you have to do virtually nothing to remove it. And you do get a lot of insulation; I think there's been studies done about what you gain from insulated glass vs. wood sash and wood storms. It would take something like 500 years or something to ever get your money out of replacements, it's silly. And you're talking about stacking a whole lot of windows down in some'guys basement, and I'm telling you, you'd better not mix them up. You'd better have it branded on those sashes and the jamb for where it went, if you try to put sash X in Y's jamb, you're going to be pulling them out and trying to figure out what's what. There's just no reason for it, your own guidelines say that if they're repairable, that's what you do. I mean, if they were, and I'm sure the owner would, I mean, that's all he wants is ventilation, he's going to have a worse situation, and you know personal preference, 'I'd rather have something new than something... 'well, this Commission is here for a reason, and you're just going to open up the flood gates. I just, not just for this house, but why should anybody, I mean just ignore this and throw it away. You're here because most people don't know what's proper, most people that own these homes, they don't know. Ifyou took an opinion poll up and down, they don't what goes into tearing old sash out, they don't know what damage you do, you gotta pull out the weights and pullies, and damaged, and you're not going to have the same hardware. There's something that I've always found difficult, though somewhat successful in doing is building age into anew product, so it looks like its 100 or 130 years old. It's hard to do, it's hard to take something brand new, and make it look like its part of, and just by that alone, they stick out. I just believe that this Commission has an absolute obligation to go with the letter of the law. I am going to tell you that the restoration of windows is not an expensive thing, it's just not. As this gentlemen said, a few hours, a few days, me working by myself can do one in a day, taking everything out, take all the glass out, take all the putty out, reglaze the glass, put the glass back in, re -rope it, paint and putty, oil the pulleys. It's a one finger operation, they were made well. The only windows I can recall that we had to go to something to replace whether than repair, was if there was afire. And I've worked on buildings that were abandoned for years, left vacant and empty and even those. I've done a lot of work for SB Heritage, $250, 000 projects for them that were uh a big portion was doors and windows. I won't take up anymore of your time. Anyone have any questions? Doolittle: I promise that I will be brief. I'm Wayne Doolittle, 407 Lamont Terrace. To me, it is not about the homeowner. It's not about me, I've lived in my house, I've lived in my house for 31 years, it's not about George or anyone else, it's about the properties themselves. We're only there temporarily so when we do things for ourselves, because we want to have them that way, it makes them all disappear for all time. I have never seen a new window that I could not tell from an old one. And in the many many houses I've looked at, new windows are new windows and old ones are old ones. You can always_ tell. I just have a feeling that what we do, that what I'm doing is a care taker of my house. It doesn't make a difference if I can see something from the street or not when you restore a propertyyou're restoring an entire property and you often restore things that you don't ever see. So it isn't about what you can see ultimately, it's about the integrity of the whole house. I would also echo the thought that if we start to do this, then we have a real problem. You're losing 20% of your heat through your windows; well 80% is going somewhere else. There are other ways of doing this, actually this house probably had shutters on it to begin with. Many people took their shutters down and put storms up and that began in the 1880's some chose to do it, some didn't. Thank you. Hostetler: I have a letter to read. This morning we received an email from Poland, from Joanie Downs Krostenko: `Dear Catherine, Greetings from Poland. It is appropriate of me to write to the members of the HPC Board re: the latest attempts by Dr. Enderle to permanently deface probably the most pristine treasure of vernacular architecture surviving in St. Joe County. As I am out of the country for the year, I can not be in attendance at the meeting on Monday. Ido not have all of their email addresses. Please, please do not let this C of A go through. How will we prevent Dr. Enderle from changing 11 594 other windows in this amazing house? How will we prevent other people in St. Joe County 595 from doing the same? As you know, the preservation/restoration of original windows is 596 recognized by all authorities in historic preservation as of singular importance to the 597 integrity of our priceless patrimony (?). Please do not let him take this away from us. J�D8 Sincerely, Joan Downs Krostenko'. =9 Doolittle: May I add one quick thing again? If I can remember.... Wayne Doolittle 407 600 Lamont Terrace. Uh, this Commission has been requiring people to take windows out and 601 store them for 32 years. Not one person has ever put them back in. They'll never go back 602 in, because when you're changing the opening, you're changing the opening. Which means 603 you can not put them back in, that's just an observation. 604 Klusczinski: Chair closes public hearing. Professor, you have a 3 minute rebuttal. 605 Enderle: First, I'm not so eloquent like the previous speakers. I'm not, this is my foreign 606 language, English. I did not organize my defense like someone else organized four 607 speakers you know to speak against nay proposal. I did not do that. I think that the 608 guidelines should be applied equally for Tippecanoe and my house, for any historic 609 building, not just for my house. I feel now like you're concentrating on my house, telling 610 me that this is the most beautiful house and that we have special rules for your house, and 611 this is not legal. Now, another point and I the email in my profession an evaluation and 612 judgment, but before you do that I need to know the situation. I must say that she (Joan 613 Downs Krostenko) has never been in my house to look at the concrete issues. How can I 614 make a judgment or to say something without..I don't understand this. Now about. 615 restoring the windows. I'm willing to do that if it's possible to retrofit to have two double 616 glass pane windows, is that it's not the case. Then to say to put exterior storm windows on 617 top of my existing windows as I said last time would be a shame. It would destroy the 618 appearance of my windows as they are now. If I can slip out one piece of the storm 619 windows out or not. I have one exterior storm window which is ugly, and I don't' want to 620 have all of my windows to have this kind of exterior storm windows it would be against the 621 spirit and the letter of these guidelines. 2 Sassano: Can we ask him questions? 3 Klusczinski: Not at this point. Thank you professor. Chair recognizes commissioners for 4 additional discussion at this time. 625 Riley: I have a question about a house in our neighborhood where the windows were 626 allowed to be replaced and I'm assuming.... 627 Klusczinski: And I think that the consideration was that it didn't have the same rating. 628 Riley: Because this is so significant. 629 Hostetler: Are you thinking of the Soderberg's? 630 Riley: No, the ... (unintelligible) 631 Hostetler: Because I think that the Soderberg's were already replacement windows. 632 Riley: Do we have a Wayne Street... ? 633 Klusczinski: Ok, other thoughts? 634 Riley: So you're not ... when the house is not so very significant, then you're not... 635 Klusczinski: Well, at times what this Board has been willing to do is when a house is non 636 contributing overall, this has a threefold quality, it's in a National Register district, it's in 637 a local district and it's also a local protected landmark, so it is... 638 Sassano: It is a local landmark? 639 Patrick: Oh yes. 640 Klusczinski: What it's not is a National Register landmark of itself, but those qualities 641 might be compromised for changes because it is a rare and unique example of 136 year old 642 windows in tact. Does that answer your question? 643 Riley: Yes, thank you. 644 Chase: -Going -with -that, -the Chapin -Park district -is -much older than..... 645 Klusczinski: Chapin Park, the first house was platted in 1857. W6 Riley: Yeah, I know, uh huh. 12 Patrick: I would like to make the comment of the Professor that it's illegal to hold him to a different standard, and just comment that he's not being held to a different standard but to what's in the guidebook, i.e. the windows not being replaced, unless they are deteriorated beyond repair. Based on my personal visit and all other evidence I don't believe that they're deteriorated beyond repair. And you're not being held to a different standard, it's about what's in the guidebookfor that kind ofproperty. Klusczinski: So in cases where there are dual guidelines, the most restrictive ones apply and your house is nestled within a National Register district, a local historic district and it's a landmark itself. Hostetler: Tippecanoe's guidelines are the A guidelines, they're the only ones in the City that are different from everyone else's, and they apply to the interior. Klusczinski: So, professor, they're under even more stringent guidelines because we have some jurisdiction over the inside of the building unlike your house. Hostetler: It's a national, it's a fagade easement with Historic Landmarks Foundation. Klusczinski: So it's not a local landmark, Group A standards.... Hostetler, No, it's a National Register Group A. . . Klusczinski: Ok, very good, any other discussion? Any comments from legal? Metiever: Not at this time. Klusczinski: Hearing none. Chair entertains a motion. Patrick: I'll make a motion. Regarding Certificate of Appropriateness 2008-0214, I move that the C of A as submitted be denied. Sassano: You have to give reasons right? Klusczinski: Not yet, is there a second? Chase: Second. Klusczinski: Motion has been made and seconded. Any additional discussion? Correct me if I'm wrong counsel, we've been told by previous counsel that we had to give reasons if we conflicted with the main motion. Metiever: Yes, and no. Generally you world make a motion in the affirmative to approve and then anyone voting against the approval would give reasons for the disapproval. As the motion is made and pending on the table, the motion is to deny, so a yes vote for that particular motion is a disapproval and therefore under the general guidelines you would have to give a reason for in this case a yes vote to deny. So, yes, you have to give a reason. Klusczinski: So in other words whenever a C of A is denied, we must give a reason. Sassano: All of us. Metiever: Yes. Sassano: So everyone that is in favor of that motion to deny must give a reason. Klusczinski: Any other discussion? Hearing none, I'll begin with roll call please. Patrick: Do I have to give my reason? Klusczinski: Yes, your official vote and reason. - Patrick: Ok, I vote to deny for the reason that the windows are not deteriorated beyond repair, and that replacement is contraindicated based on the historic guidelines for this district and this property. Klusczinski: Timothy Klusczinski, vote in favor of the motion to deny with these brief comments. History is forever. But its symbols are temporary. Someday every historic building that we cherish today will be lost. Even in our lifetime, we can recall entire neighborhoods erased, buildings razed and houses remuddled. Some changes are drastic, others add up over time. Recognizing that all change is inevitable, preservation should do it's very best to guide the changes that confront symbols of our heritage. The 1872 Anderson House is one of these examples. Historic preservation is not a pretty buildings' society. Well beyond that notion it is a plan for mapping our culture with recognition for those that paved the way. It's about innovation, craftsmanship and a complete understanding of now unavailable materials, the longevity of the products built from them and the embodied energy that they possess. 13 As romantic as preservation might appear, it is also anchored in science and economics. Successful preservation must be furthered by reasonable, objective standards. It sometimes must differentiate between society's needs and its wants. We are only stewards of our domain and the buildings that we occupy. Rare and unique examples of the past must be carefully guarded. Preservation must strive to be informed and energy conscious. It must respect the birth of new ideas with respect to the need for change and the impact of change to the surroundings. That does not mean that it conflicts with progress and technology. It also does NOT mean that historic features are wasteful and inefficient. Nothing could be further from the truth! According to "The Repair of Historic Wooden Windows " Preservation Brief no.9 - issued by the US Secretary of the Interior and National Park Service -Technical Preservation Services, and relating to historic properties and windows, "After all of the factors have been evaluated (these are, "admitting light to the interior spaces, providingfresh air and ventilation to the interior, providing a visual link to the outside world, and enhancing the appearance of a building'), "windows should be considered significant to a building if they: 1) are original, 2) reflect the original design intent for the building, 3) reflect period or regional styles or building practices, 4) reflect changes to the building resulting from major periods or events, or 5) are examples of exceptional craftsmanship or design. " Preservation Brief no.9 continues, "Consider energy efficiency as one of the factors for replacements, but do not let it dominate the issue. Energy conservation is no excuse for the wholesale destruction of historic windows, which can be made thermally efficient by historically and aesthetically acceptable means. " Therefore, I vote to deny C of A #2008-0214 for the following reasons: 1. Page 74175 of the Chapin Park Guidebook directs that "original windows and features shall be retained" and that they "shall not be discarded when they can be restored and reused in place. " It goes on to say that 'features... that require the removal of original windows and doors, shall not be installed. " 2. The existing windows on the structure are not deteriorated beyond repair and can be reconditioned and repaired as necessary. 3. A correctable, lack of maintenance is not a case for the replacement of existing or original window units or window components. 4. Enhancements and upgrades that do not compromise the structure or the Guidebook language are available and can be installed to compliment the existing and original window units (i.e. interior storms). 5. The proposed changes are in stark contrast to practices endorsed by the HPC for the preservation of historic structures. 6. While the owner volunteers to store the old sashes in a safe place, the HPC has no mechanism to verify that this practice will be carried out satisfactorily or that sashes will be sustained in an acceptable form to permit reinstallation, which I believe to be the rationale for storage. It is also conceivable that the original window frames will be compromised or damaged from the installation of the "tilt pacs " thereby negating the opportunityfor stored sashes to be re -installed into their corresponding frames - in the future. 7. The maintenance and repair of original and unique features (including windows) is endorsed by the Indiana Department of Natural Resources, Division of Historic Preservation & Archeology, the National Trust for Historic Preservation, and honor the US Secretary of the Interior's Guidelines for Restoration. 8. The Anderson House is a signature Local Historic Landmark that resides inside the Chapin Park Local and National Historic Districts. In its present state, it is a National Register candidate. Modifications and adulterations to the structure including the replacement of exterior features (windows) will undermine its qualifications for that status. 14 803 804 805 =6 9. I firmly believe that the existing 136 -year-old windows are a rare feature of this landmark and contribute toward its identity and appeal. 10. That the replacement offour or even one window, will serve to set a dangerous precedent for additional windows to receive the same treatment and latitude. 11. The permission to replace windows in a signature landmark will serve only to challenge this Commission's authority and guidance when reviewing proposals for other historic properties within its jurisdiction. An exception to the guidebook will invite accusations of policy rooted in subjective, arbitrary and capricious practices. The Guidebook must always be preserved as a frameworkfor preservation and a contract to property owners inside the District. 12. The petitioner has not demonstrated an unreasonable hardship from the denial of this application, or from recommendations to pursue standard maintenance and repair practices or other prescribed improvements. 13. It is questionable to think that other members of the public whose projects have supported the Guidebook of the district or that of Local Historic Landmarks will view the proposed changes favorably. Or that the change will best serve future homeowners of the Anderson House. Sassano: With the caveat that I'm still trying to understand the intent of the Code, it clearly states that original doors, windows and hardware shall not be discarded when they can be restored and reused in place, page 75 of the guidebook. In my professional opinion, and in any opinion I'd think, the windows clearly are restorable and to remove them and not restore them in place would clearly be in contradiction to the guidebook. Based on those guidelines I move in favor of the motion to deny. Chase: Mary Jane Chase, I am in favor of the motion for a couple of reasons. When you accept a house of this quality, you accept obligations. An obligation is to preserve it, you're a caretaker. The threat of having legal action taken is not the issue. The issue is to be a good caretaker, and we have proof that the windows can be restored and work very well, better than a fake replacement. It would be like taking the Hope diamond, taking it out and putting a glass chip in there. Then you relinquish the stewardship of that house. I vote to accept the motion. Klusczinski: Linda? Riley: I vote to deny the motion. I've been convinced tonight by all of these people that know more than I do, of how significant this house is and how important it is to keep the windows and repair them... Klusczinski: Chair requires a clarification of your vote. I think that you voted in favor to deny, which is to deny a denial... - Riley: I'm voting in favor of the motion. Sorry. This house is so significant, I think that the windows should be repaired and maintained. We are opening Pandora's Box if we start allowing one of the better houses in our town to replace the windows. Moved: Patrick Second: Chase To deny C of A 2008-0214 Approved Unanimously 5-0 Klusczinski: We're under a continuance for C of A 2007-1107A. There is no public hearing tonight. That C of A was introduced November 26, if memoryserves, or November 19, 2007. We have been under continuance in the December and January meetings and require a decision tonight. The continuance will expire, and that C of A will go through by default if not defeated. So, it's a clarification. Chair entertains a motion to accept or deny C of A 2007-1107A. 15 809 APPLICATION ITEMS: Four Marvin replacement windows in the bay area, 0 wood ultimate insert double hung, double pane, upgraded to Low E II with Argon gas. 1 Per letter and specifications submitted. — . 2 813 Sassano: So this doesn't automatically....? 814 Patrick: No, because there was a continuance. 815 Chase: Ok, I'll present C ofA 2007-1107A, that that C ofA be denied. 816 Klusczinski: Motion has been made, is there a second? 817 Riley: Second. 818 Klusczinski: Motion is made and seconded. Any Commission discussion? 819 Sassano: It seems to me that I should recuse myselffrom this as this was all before I was 820 here. 821 Klusczinski: Let. the record show that Mr. Sassano recuses himself at this point. Motion to 822 deny is made and seconded. Roll call please. 823 Patrick: I vote to deny because it is contrary to the standards of the neighborhood and 824 because windows are not deteriorated beyond repair. 825 Klusczinski: Timothy Klusczinski, I vote to accept the motion to deny 2007-1107A for all 826 of the reasons cited in 2008-0214. 827 Chase: Mary Jane Chase, my reasons are the same from the previous C ofA. _ 828 Riley: I vote to deny C ofA the same reasons. 829 Metiever: For clarification, the Sassano vote is really an abstention. 830 Moved: Chase Second: Riley 831 To deny C of A 2007-1107A Approved Unanimously 4-0 832 Sassano Abstention. 833 834 B. LANDMARKS – None. ==:;5 116 II. REGULAR BUSINESS 837 A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES January 28, 2008 838 Moved: Sassano Second: Riley 839 Approved Unanimously 840 841 B. TREASURER'S REPORT 842 C. STAFF REPORTS 843 1. Correspondence . 844 One thank you note from a Montessori student that used the HPC library. 845 2. Director – Catherine Hostetler 846 Distributed to Commission. 847 Memorandum discussed for presentation to County Commissioners 848 regarding departmental funding sources. Memo includes information on 849 the $25K grant from the City, the HPC vehicle, and legal counsel; all 850 provided by the City. It is noted that the original agreement securing the 851 $25K grant can not be located. Director Hostetler will double check_ with 852 the County to see if they may have the originals. 853 ■ Newsletter publication was reduced to 4 times, down to 3 times per year 854 due to the impending postal increase. President Klusczinski suggested that 855 more effort be made to collect email addresses to send newsletters 856 electronically. 857 ■ Survey books have been discussed at the last few meetings. Director 858 Hostetler would like to work with the auditor's office to establish a line E59 item for the sale proceeds which would in turn fund future survey work. 16 This matter should go for a vote to ensure that funds are not lost into the general fund. Moved: Chase Second: ? — tape expired To authorize creation of line item Approved Unanimously to receive proceeds of sales of current survey books, to be utilized by the HPC for the purpose of funding future survey works and other publications including a preservation plan. Fees for HPC services were raised to $15 per C of A whether staff approved or presented to the Commission. Moved: Riley Second: Chase Raise fees to $15 Approved Unanimously 3. Assistant Director — Amy Herdman — Absent from meeting due to illness. Distributed to Commission. 4. Legal Counsel — Larry Metiever D. COMMITTEE REPORTS 1. President's Report — Tim Klusczinski Working on Advisory Board calls, and will continue to do so with the intent of arranging a meeting in the near future. Historic Districts Committee met. 2. Committee Reports —Historic Districts - Lynn Patrick HD committee met with existing liaisons, and new liaisons. Will be following up on 3 names received. Will put something up to attempt to recruit at Restore Michiana. III. OLD BUSINESS IV. NEW BUSINESS V. HEARING OF VISITORS ADJOURNMENT Moved: Rile Second: Patrick Approved: Unanimously ak, I DatJ Secretary, Historic reservation Co sion of South Bend & St. Joseph County 17