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Home My WebLink AboutSeptember 2007HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING HPC CONFERENCE ROOM 125 LAFAYETTE, SUITE 101 SEPTEMBER 11, 2007 5:15 AGENDA STANDARDS AND MAINTENANCE COMMII-IEL 508-508 '/z LINDSEY 730 LELAND MISCELLANEOUS STAFF REPORT .CONCERNING APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS Date: August'9, 2007 Application Number: 2007-0806B Property Location: 508-508 % Lindsey Property Owner: NNN Landmark or District Designation: Chapin Park LHD Rating: non contributing STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: Bunker Young House is an American Four Square built between 1902 and 1903. Mr. Bunker was the Chief of Police for several years. - APPLICATION ITEM: Removal of aluminum siding and replace with smooth cement fiber product to match lap, width and texture of original siding. STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES: II Existing Structures A. Building Materials Original exterior building materials in the district include brick, stucco, clapboard, wood shingles and brick or stone masonry. In some instances vinyl, composite and aluminum siding have been applied over the original material Required: Original exterior building materials shall be retained when possible. Deterioration of wood materials shall be presented though repair, cleaning and painting. The existing architectural detail around windows, porches, doors and eaves shall be retained or replaced by replicas of the same design when deteriorated beyond repair.... Recommended: Whenever possible, the original building materials should be restored. When maintaining or repairing original siding is not feasible aluminum, vinyl or composite siding may be used. When used over wood surfaces, the siding should be the same size and style as the original wood. Every effort should be made to retain original trim around windows, doors, cornices, gables, eaves and other architectural features.... STAFF RECOMMENDATION: Staff can not make a recommendation since it does not know the condition of the original siding and can not make a determination at this time. Staff requests that it be allowed to work with NNN to make recommendations and return its recommendations to either the Standards and Maintenance Committee or the Commission. 4 Application - FOR - Certificate icate o f Appropriateness Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend & St. Joseph County 125 S. Lafayette Blvd., South Bend, Indiana 46601 Mailing Address: County -City Building, South Bend, Indiana 46601 Phone: 574-235-9798 • Fax: 574-235-9578 • Email: SWCHPMcost joseph.in.us Website: http://www.sqosepha)un4indian&com/s chp/index.html OFFICE USE ONLY »»» DO NOT COMPLETE ANY ENTRIES CON711INED IN THIS BOX »»» OFFICE USE ONLY Date Received G A4sieo2 DD 7 Application Number a O O 7- 4811 8 Past Reviews: ❑ YES (Date of last Review) ❑ NO Staff Approval authorized by: Title: Historic Commission Review Date: C2 0 0 7 ❑ Local Landmark ❑ Local Historic District (Name) ❑ National Landmark ❑ National Register District (Name) Certificate of Appropriateness: ❑ Denied ❑ Tabled ❑ Sent To Committee ❑ Approved and Issued DATE Address of Property for proposed work: 50-8 - 5-C9 16 IIII.IFq Street Number and Street Name Name of Property Owner(s): (Please Print) -- 'fP `f' }I j ��=lC� IKLC -, Address of Property Owner(s): �• 1�C�X c j"t't-I•l�t (1�1 �{�O(!� Contractor(s)Name: _�T 1 ,p�v-- M� Contract Company Name: Contractor Address: City: Phone: Current Use of Building. C' (Single Family — Multi -Family — Commercial — Government — Industrial — Vacant — etc.) Type of Building Construction:- Nn'I FEP*_-{E (Wood Frame — Brick — Stone — Steel — Concrete — Other) Proposed Work: WIn-kind ❑ Landscape ❑ New ❑ Replacement (not in-kind) ❑ Demolition (more than one box may be chccW) Description of Proposed Work: l ►1,(t�, A1.1�J "IT44 -_4Ar cM-1 CiatAt a rr- 4=iROz cr i71 vjPT 4► \ In ID -I :ftjrj 71Fq_TLr'%P c'T�tcat Owner/Contractor: Fax a�— i 1 .41 e-mail I.11.11�1D1e1� � [' e�V tt �F ,Cfsi•� (This o/fi x will corn7ond with only one designee) . �-':•' r,NMpn Tom. I «LII!er► •IIII•Iiioiii III !C — APPLICATION REQIIIRFMENTS ARE LISTED ON REVERSE SIDE — Application - FOR - Certificate of Appropriateness Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend & St. Joseph County 125 S. Lafayette Blvd., South Bend, Indiana 46601 Mailing Address: County -City Building, South Bend, Indiana 46601 Phone: 574-235-9798 • Fax: 574-235-9578 Email: SBSJCHPC@co.st joseph.in.us Website: http://www.sqosephcounVindiana.com/sjchp/index.htual OFFICE USE ONLY »»» DO NOT COMPLETE ANYENTRIES COMPUNED IN THIS BOX » — OFFICE USE OArLY Date Received _ Z0o 7 - Application Number oZ 00 % _ 40,fd G 6, Past Reviews: F� YES (Date of last Review) NO Staff Approval authorized by: Title: Historic Commission Review Date: oZO &240 a0-0 7 [] Local Landmark ['Local Historic District (Name) �eJ National Landmark F_� National Register District (Name) Certificate of Appropriateness: Denied E] Tabled [-] Sent To Committee Ej Approved and Issued DATE Address of Property for proposed work: Street Number and Street Name Name of Property Owner(s): (Please Print) 1►��C - Address of Property Owner(s): �. X. t �� arA—MA IM, Z4&'1Qq Contractor(s) Name: --tom ITh=a.1 (-t F1,—=r5 -Pn- 7 Contract Company Name: Contractor Address: City: Phone: Current Use of Building: ) ,Prltfi' (Single Family -Multi-Fainily- Commercial - Government -Industrial—Vacant - etc.) --- -- - --- — - Type of Building Construction: lbca-) T:�.Pd_4e (Wood Frame - Brick - Stone - Steel - Concrete - Other) Proposed Work: In-kind ❑ Landscape R New F1 Replacement (not in -land) _ Q Demolition (more than one box may be checked) Description of Proposed Work: 'P 7-cfa i f 4011 Owner/Contractor: Fax -3Q - I FT ( e-mail G Vk nr.(uklc .(Y-0-4 (This office will correspond with onlyone designee) and/or I 7kt ii `tel — APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS ARE LISTED ON P.EVERSE SIDE — Attachment A Description of Proposed Work The NNN plans to rehabilitate the property at 730 Leland (see Attachment B) and return it to a single family home. To accomplish this, the NNN is requesting permission to do the following: • The existing windows have been previously replaced. The NNN will remove the existing windows and replace them with a Kolbe and Kolbe wood replacement window. • A number of additions to the structure will be removed in order to return the property back to its original footprint. This includes: the removal of an addition of an enclosed stairway on the south side of the structure, the removal of the rear entrance, including addition and stairway on the north side of the structure, and the removal of the addition to the wall on the west of the southeast porch, return to the original house wall. (See Attachment C.) After the additions are removed, the structures roof line will be returned to the original roof line. • All existing roofing materials will be removed and a new 30 year architectural grade shingle will be applied. • The existing front porch will be removed including foundation. The porch will be replaced with a wood, tongue and grove flooring, bead board ceiling, columns and spindles similar to existing neighborhood housing stock. ■ The existing aluminum siding will be removed. The siding will be replaced with a smooth cement fiber product to match lap, width, and texture of the original siding. • The existing gutters will be removed and a new gutter system will be installed to match the renovations. 508 - 508 1/2 Lindsey CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS The Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend & St. Joseph County has reviewed the proposed work: Lynn A. Patrick, President REMOVE 1943 ADDITION, RETAIN TWO ORIGINAL WINDOWS FOR REUSE; REPLACEMENT OF REPLACEMENT WINDOWS WITH KOLBE&KOLBE ONE -OVER -ONE DOUBLE HUNG WOOD WINDOWS. PORCH REHABILITATION: REMOVAL OF CONCRETE PORCH FLOOR AND METAL SUPPORTS AND RAILINGS AND REPLACEMENT WITH WOOD TONGUE AND GROOVE FLOORING, BEAD BOARD CEILING, COLUMNS AND SPINDLES PER PHOTOS SUBMITTED. DETAILS OF PORCH AND REAR ELEVATION TO BE WORKED OUT WITH HPC STAFF. REMOVAL OF SECOND FRONT DOOR; IN-KIND REPLACE- MENT OF ROOF, GUTTERS AND SIDEWALK. CONTRACTOR -TBD. HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND ST. JOSEPH COUNTY Phone: (574) 235-9798 FAX: (574) 235-9578 e -mall: SBSJCHPC@co.st-joseph.in.us Catherine D. Hostetler, Director for the following location: 508-508 1/2 Lindsey Chapin Park LHD COA #2005-1207 A -B Extended 8/6/2007 in the County of St. Joseph; State of Indiana; which is: ITILocated in a Local Historic District FIA Local Historic Landmark and found this application to be appropriate according to the Standards pertaining to Local Historic Landmarks and/or Local Historic Districts. Regulations pertaining to the Historic Preservation Commission are found in Chapter 21 (Zoning), South Bend Municipal Code & Chapter 26 of the St. Joseph County Code. The issuance of this permit does NOT in any manner, release the recipient from the responsibility of complying with the requirements of the zoning ordinances, building codes, safety codes, ADA or other requirements of the City of South Bend, the County of St. Joseph, the State of Indiana, or the United States Federal Government. This permit is good for one year from the date of issuance and is effective from the date entered herein. Plans are on file and open for public inspection at the office of the Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend & St. Joseph County, 227 West Jefferson Blvd. RM 1123, South Bend, Indiana,during normal business hours. THIS PERMIT IS NOT TRANSFERABLE NAME OF APPLICANT: Near Northwest Neighborhood DATE PERMIT TAKES FORCE: 12/20/2005 PERMIT ISSUED BY: Catherine D. Hostetler, Director POST IN A CONSPICUOUS PLACE ON THE STREET SIDE OF THE PROJECT UNTIL COMPLETION OF ALL WORK. STAFF REPORT CONCERNING APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS Date: August 9, 2007 Application Number: 2007-08060 Property Location: 730 Leland Property Owner: NNN Landmark or District Designation: Chapin Park LHD Rating: non contributing STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: Formerly 706 Leland, this Queen Anne house was built by 1894 probably for John Beyrer and his wife Flora. Mr. Beyrer was a contractor and gravel roofer for Ford Roofing Co and later established his own successful firm. John Beyrer and Sons Roofing Company roofed many of the Studebaker and Oliver plant buildings by 1922. APPLICATION ITEMS; 1. The existing windows have been previously replaced. The NNN will remove the existing windows and replace them with a Kolbe and Kolbe wood replacement window. 2. A number of additions to the structure will be removed in order to return the property back to its original footprints. This includes the removal of an addition of an enclosed stairway of the south side of the structure, the removal of the rear entrance, including addition and stairway on the north side of the structure and the removal of the addition to the wall on the west of the southeast porch, return to the original house wall. (See Attachment C.) After the additions are removed, the structure's roof line will be returned to the original roof line. 3. All existing roofing materials will be removed and a new 30 year architectural grade shingle will be applied. 4. The existing front porch will be removed including foundation. The porch will be replaced with a wood, tongue and grove flooring, bead board ceiling, columns and spindles similar to existing neighborhood housing stock. 5. The existing aluminum siding will be removed. The siding will be replaced with a smooth cement fiber product to match lap, width and texture of the original siding. 6. The existing gutter will be removed and a new gutter system will be installed to match the renovations. STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES:, II Existing Structures A. Building Materials Original exterior building materials in the district include brick, stucco, clapboard, wood shingles and brick or stone masonry. In some instances vinyl, composite and aluminum siding have been applied over the original material -- - - - Required: Original exterior building materials shall be retained when possible. Deterioration of wood materials shall be presented though repair, cleaning and painting. The existing architectural detail around windows, porches, doors and eaves shall be retained or replaced by replicas of the same design when deteriorated beyond repair.... Recommended: Whenever possible, the original building materials should be restored. When maintaining or repairing original siding is not feasible aluminum, vinyl or composite siding may be used. When used over wood surfaces, the siding should be the same size and style as the original wood. Every effort should be made to retain original trim around windows, doors, cornices, gables, eaves and other architectural features.... B.Roofs and Roofing: Recommended: The original shape and materials of the roof should be restored. Roof covering which is deteriorated beyond repair should be replaced with new material that matches as closely as possible the original in composition, size, shape, color and texture. Gutters and downspouts are often a necessary adjunct in order to prevent deterioration of the structure; they should be maintained whenever possible or replaced with a style comparable and suitable to the architectural period. C. Windows and Doors: Required: Original windows and doors shall be retained including sashes, sills, shutters, decorative glass, pediments, hoods and hardware. When deteriorated beyond repair, they shall be replaced with units and trim resembling the original. Prohibited: Original doors, windows and hardware shall not be discarded when they can be restored and reused in place. New windows and door openings, which would alter the scale and proportion of the building may not be introduced. Inappropriate new window and door features such as metal, vinyl or fiberglass awnings, hoods or aluminum insulating glass combinations that require removal of original windows and doors shall not be installed. STAFF RECOMMENDATION: #1. Staff does not recommend approval of this item as the windows appear to be original and only the storm windows are aluminum replacements. The original wood windows can be restored in place and new storm windows applied. #2. Staff recommends approval to the removal of the non original additions to the house footprint and the roof line. #3. Staff recommends approval of the complete tear off and re -roof. #4. Staff recommends approval of the porch restoration along the length and depth of the perceived original porch along the front of the house and its return to a style compatible to the age and style of the house and neighborhood. #5. Staff can not make a recommendation as it does not know the condition of the original material and can not make a determination at this time. Staff requests that it be allowed to work with NNN to make recommendations and return its recommendation to either the Standards and Maintenance Committee or the Commission. #6. Staff recommends approval of the replacement gutters and downspouts. ff Ssm Addition to be removed. Removal of an addition to the wall on the west side of the southeast porch. The porch will be returned to its original size and the wall will be returned it's original location. S013 THE °2 AGENDA OF =hHE SEPTEMBER 17, 2007 COMMISSION MEETING 1865 Regular Meeting itittcTEETH FLOOR- ROOM 1308 County-City Building MONDAY, September 17, 2007 7:OOPM I. CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL II. PUBLIC HEARING A. CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS 1. 621 N. Lafayette COA 2007-0716/0907 2. 101 S. Lafayette COA 2007-0904 ~ 3. 710 Park Ave COA 2007-0905A H 4. 1715 E. Wayne COA 2007-0906 B. LANDMARK O C. NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION_ III. REGULAR BUSINESS A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES August 20, 2007 B. TREASURER'S REPORT Location Report C. STAFF REPORTS 1. Correspondence 2. C of A Approvals a 3. Directors Report 4. Assistant Director Report 5. Legal Counsel D. COMMITTEE REPORTS: Q 1. President's Report CA IV. OLD BUSINESS H M V. NEW BUSINESS VI. HEARING OF VISITORS AND ADJOURNMENT STAFF REPORT CONCERNING APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS Date: August 9, 2007 Application Number: 2007-0716 Property Location: 621 North Lafayette Property Owner: Allyson and Aaron Hinds Landmark or District Designation: Chapin Park NR/LHD Rating: Notable STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT,: The Queen Anne Style House was built in 1888 by Stephen Fred Brown and his wife Christina, Mr. Brown was a machinist for Strayer's and eventually Studebaker. Fred Brown eventually left the house to Frederick and Vida Brown, a shaper i operator for Studebaker. The house stayed in the Brown family until its sale to James Quinlan in the 1980s. The current owners are Allyson and Aaron Hinds. APPLICATION ITEM: To recreate the Original Front Porch, attach to sill -plate at base, with lean-to roof until end of porch and then a full roofline fagade to create something much like the porch shown in the COA illustration. The construction would be all wood. STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES: II Existing Structures, D. Entrances, Porches and Steps Required: When deteriorated beyond repair, existing or original porches, stoops, patios and steps including handrails, balusters, columns, brackets, tiles and roof decorations shall be retained or replace by replicas of the same design or by a design more in keeping with the historic period of the structure. STAFF RECOMMENDATION: Staff recommends approval of the concept as the project proposed will replicate an original feature of the house in an appropriate period style and replace a non contributing structure. Application - FOR - Certificate of Appropriateness Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend & St. Joseph County 125 S. Lafayette Blvd., South Bend, Indiana 46601 Mailing Address: County -City Building, South Bend, Indiana A"m Phone: 574-235-9798 - Fax: 574-235-9578 - Email: SBSjCHPC@co.st joseph.in us Website: http://www.sgosephcounVindiana.com/s chp/indexltml OFFICE USE ONLY »»» DO NOT COMPLETE ANY ENTRIES COMAWED IN THIS BOX »»» OFFICE USE ONLY Date Received )4 A�e .ZOd ,% Application Number c2 00 Z - D % / G Past Reviews: El YES (Date of Last Review) Staff Approval authorized by: ■ • Title: Historic Commission Review Date: OW et00 7 (] Local Landmark [Local Historic District (Name) N n National Landmark [✓�'jVational Register District (Name) Certificate of Appropriateness: E] Denied E] Tabled [D Sent To Committee E] Approved and Issued DATE Address of Property for proposed work: 1 V J Sumb r nd Street Namr. Name of Property Owner(s): (Please Print) Pin Address of Property O e Contractor(s) Name: Contract Company Name: ' Contractor Address: '< ALS k City:_ __SoaAk� fi.4nd Phone: Current Use of Building: (Single ami7y —Multi -Family — Commercial — Government — Industrial — Vacant — etc.) Type of Building Construction: (Wood Frame — Brick — Stone — Steel — Concrete —Other) Proposed Work: [] In-kind E] Landscape JANew TVReplacement (not in-kind) [] Demolition (vane than one box may be duxW) I IJJ Description P posed Work: �`�� Xtfl l A Owner/Contractor: Fax: a-mailZR Lee_4(!:�ffl� A ILL (This rtes rid with only one I k7 I - () I and/or - — APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS ARE LISTED ON REVERSE SIDE — ,Q�ciS�t�t (,k)Ob'Olt k6 (-)rA 4rwJ So rrAn Diu Atj� ( We-, w4k -we-a4J w/m-htx. "&cecA�� srll p 6A-V, uA3 YuA I 0-*m NO-QA W2,/ M4� o.." wtl-L Ik.CFri-Q �r��Tl�)J= pre. Ce�jA- a� rove. have, s�i.e�c � lti ov �- � ' 7 f2Crea�- °� O�,IUrtJAL �,�i.it pDP-CY-a*O� s•\1p�ct.�-e.. � b�e�, w ��1-i.., "f_eo�>-ro" roe un�-� I .e.YJ W,A'l VVINVA" 11 NOV AK w 411 STAFF REPORT CONCERNING APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS Date: September 7, 2007 Application Number: COA #2007-0904 Property Location: 101 S. Lafayette/302 W. Washington Property Owner: Ambassadors For Christ Landmark or District Designation: Local Landmark/ Downtown National Register District Rating: Significant STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: The Richardsonian Romanesque Church was constructed by_Christopher Fassnacht in 1888 for the First Presbyterian Congregation. Mr. Fassnacht also constructed the Studebaker's Tippecanoe mansion. The First Presbyterian Church was organized in 1834 under the direction of Horatio Chapin. The building was sold in 1952 to the People's Church of South Bend. The Ambassadors for Christ have been the owners since 2001. APPLICATION ITEMS: Roofs are an integral part of any building and at 302 W. Washington our roof is severe need of major repairs. At this time, however, we are considering only a couple of smaller areas where the need is greatest for repair. Repairs of the "same kind" are out of our financial reach. Therefore, what we propose is a repair that we can accomplish. This would consist of the following materials as needed: Complete removal of old material (slate), new wood only as needed (3/4" be plywood), 31/4" galvanized nails, new 15 weight base paper, 11/2" button nails, solid roll galvanized flashings 12" wide (to be totally covered), cold cement paste to be used around areas such as chimneys and vent stacks in combination with the fiber reinforcement (for long term strength, fiber reinforcement; architectural shingles (estate gray) and 11/2" electro -galvanized shingle nails. Area to be repaired is above the pastor's office which is located on the parking lot side of building directly in front of side drive. A semi -circular area above the window with air conditioner in it. GROUP B LANDMARK STANDARDS: C. RENOVATIONS AND ADDITIONS 2. Material— Additions and improvements involving any new material in the landmark should be of the same material as the original. It should be the same size and texture. An Alternative material may be allowed if it duplicates the original. RECOMMENDATION: Staff does not recommend approval of this project with the substitute materials. The work will be performed by volunteers with no experience in dealing with a slate roof. There is the possibility that the slates could be removed carefully, the decking repaired with new materials and under layment felt or paper and the original slates re -installed. It is estimated by the Preservation Specialist on staff that if the slates are removed carefully they should be able to reuse most of them, and only have to buy a minimum of new Vermont slate or artificial slate for fill-in. The Artificial slate is $300.00 or less per 100 square feet and slate is $425. to $475. for 100 square feet, delivered. SEP -4-2007 17:27 r FROM: ,^ .. .r. �_ ., TO:15742359576 P.1_- application FOR - Cerii ficate o, f Appropriateness Historic Preservation Commission of South Bead & Str Joseph Courtly 125 S TAfayette /sins., South Band, Thdiai a *Wl Ntai A.1.7—cot +ty-icy s,.aA.-- , A.4k A.A lndiana4W Plwne 574- 8 • Fax: 574=?35.9578 - Enla)1: S9S7CHPMost josepbJn.us Weiniue; http:Ilwwuv.stjc,�e�at�ccnmtyatdi�tz►aeozn jajc#�plindac,�ixa+l . GaTce USE ONLXb»»> DO NOT COAWLMAME7ITMMS CONDU3NED IW 2WSBOX >p»» OFFICE ELSE ONLY Date Received. -at o700 7 Applications Number! 90_7 . d 90 past Reviews: O YES (vwrvirw &stem) [3 NO Staff Approval authorized bar Title: historic Commission Review Date: Q Logi Landmark ❑ Local Mstoric District av—} [3National Landmark [] National Register District (Name Certificate ofAppmptiatenew ! [] Dented 0 M3bted n Sent To Coln dttee [] Approved and Issued n� Aaddrew of Property for proposed wvrk:_3 e, StrnctNronGGrncd Std Namr Nance of Property Owner(s): {Please Prier) A M k Apts s a rl p so Cr.S— Address ofPropetty Owtler(s): __7.kS 9 S, AS( Zr g Contraetor(s) Naas mC !'Lk r e h /1 err - Contract Compmsy Name: Contractor Address: �lrf k`'r5 Zt'z`/k C113r Phone:—( Current Use of Bunding: n Gk C {SI/�rQFRmihf—�^{tljEi•FRRI7if—t:wtlefef�fli—Conctmnxirtt—Jedaihiar—VtIG1}It—GEC Type oi' Building Construction: S 4 t3,.. e: '- P r l l' h (Woad Fmmp —Back— Stmt— Steer— cmw= r— cried Proposed work: Orn -kind ❑ Landscape n New ('Replacement (sot Jn-a d) ❑ Demolition {nmtc Jnr oee Las tray be dmd:td) Description of Proposal Work: 4 4+,R r k e C' lwrneecontoactor. Pvc 773 ( 7+? 3 �frl t �/i a.mail {Thi+1rnTrcar 14"dtaithemt ;grrtr) _and/or JK -- APPUCATMN REQ►UDitF.t13 MARE LLS W ON REVERSE SIVE -- SEP -5-2007 10:29 FROM: TO:15742359578 P.1 Roofs are an integral part of any building, and at 302 W. Washington our roof is in severe need of major repairs. At this time, however, we are considering only a couple of smaller areas where the need is the greatest for repair. Repairs of the "same kind" are out of our financial reach. Therefore, what we propose is a repair that we can accomplish. This would consist of the following materials as needed: • Complete removal of old material (slate) • New wood only as needed (3/4" be plywood) • 3 1\4" galvanized nails • New 15 weight base paper • 1 1\2" button nails • Solid roll galvanized flashings 12" wide (to be totally covered) • Cold cement paste • To be used around areas such as chimneys and vent stacks in combination with the fiber reinforcement (for long term strength) • Fiber reinforcement • Architectural shingles (estate gray) • 1 112" electro -galvanized shingle nails area to be repaired is above the pastors office which is located on the parking lot side of building directly in front of side drive. A semi — circular area above window with air conditioner in it. STAFF REPORT CONCERNING APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS Date: September 7, 2007 Application Number: COA #2007-0906 Property Location: 1715 E. Wayne Street Property Owner: Linda and John Brady Landmark or District Designation: East Wayne Street LHD Rating: Contributing STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: Whitcomb and Keller built this H.R. Stapp designed Tudor Revival house in 1929. John T. and Jean Voedisch were the first owners. Mr. Voedisch was an assistant football coach for Notre Dame under Knute Rockne. APPLICATION ITEMS: Gerard Homes Inc. is proposing to add a 16'x13'-6" screen porch to the rear of the home. They will be pouring footings and a concrete slab. Building materials will be all cedar; black aluminum screen will then be added with cedar trim. Roof will be Y2" OSB plywood with architectural shingles, aluminum fascia and soffit to match existing roof. The Exterior siding will be 1"x8" horizontal cedar. Interior will have 3' knee walls on three sides with an 8'x8'-6' French door leading into existing additions. Interior walls and ceiling will have 1"x8" horizontal T&G cedar. Exterior siding will be painted first with a primer and then brown to match existing house color. All landscaping, sidewalks, fences will be restored to their original appearance. EAST WAYNE STREET STANDARDS: III. New Construction: A. Height and Proportion: Required:... Additions to existing building shall be related in height and proportion to the existing structure. B. Building Materials: Required: Exterior materials used on a new structure shall be compatible in scale, texture and color with adjacent structures. Materials used on an addition to an existing structure shall relate to the existing or original materials of that structure. As much of the original structure as possible shall be retained so that the addition could be removed withdut damage to the basic structure and appearance of the building. RECOMMENDATION: Staff recommends approval. The porch will be in scale and proportion to the rest of the house and will match the materials of the house. - It will be in the rear of the home and attached to a non original addition to the house and will not obscure any original features. Application - FOR - Certificate of Appropriateness Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend & St. Joseph County 125 S. Lafayette Blvd., South Bend, Indiana 46601 Mailing Address: County -City Building, South Bend, Indiana 4b601 Phone: 574-735-9798 - Fax 574-235-M • Email: SBSjCHPC®co.st josephin us Website: http://wwws§osephcountyindianacom/s chp/index html OFFICE USE ONLY >»»y> DO NOT NOT COMPLETE ANY ENTRIES CONTAINED IN THIS BOX »»» OFFICE USE ONLY Date Received 4 Xan t a00 7 Application Number --1-0-0-7 - D �?O4; Past Reviews: El YES (tate of Lot Review) Staff Approval authorized by: Historic Commission Review Date: / 7. Z jaZ,- 4" -2Ov 7 Local Landmark (Xocal Historic District (Name) [j National Landmark E] National Register District (Name) AM Title: Certificate of Appropriateness: F] Denied E3Tabled ❑ Sent To Committee F1 Approved and Issued Rag Address of Property for proposed work: / 7/5 r, W,4YAtF- 5-r. t Street Number and Street Name Name of Property Owner(s): (Please Print) j#.Vnf L.. 1.-16 A 15RAb K Address of Property Owner(s): / ?/'S ?5-- L�.(r 9:7- Contractor(s) Name: 45 --RAA-6 AM hvc- -- FAMP-1 ae- e,49i: Contract Company Name: 6 6- A•IZ 6 4o)q e 1-1c ContractorA•ddress: /02$01 4 • - city -t- %k',� �te� EYZ , f . Phone: Current Use of Building: rArw.- j (Single Family - Multi -Family - Commercial - Government - Industrial - Vacant - etc.) Type of Building Construction: 1,1000D CR, -A, -Q5 (Wood Frame - Brick - Stone - Steel - Concrete - Other) Proposed Work: [l In-kind [] Landscape N New n Replacement (not in-kind) n Demolition (n orethan one box maybe checked) t Description of Proposed Work: D b I A U / 3- (v a .K l Gy J ��'l� t �•.! &AIX, rr,4cW &x Owner/Contractor. Fax: e21cf- 7- D 8 7( t e— mail-(M office u!4l1 ntd with only one designee) --- F3 14&Ni C,.. i g C .< Df -4 and/orj/ 1 — APPUC4 TON REQUIREMENTS ARE LISTED ON REVERSE SIDE — 171.5 East Wayne Street Gerard Homes Inc. is proposing to add a 16'x13'-6" screen porch to the rear of the home at the above address. We will be pouring footings and a concrete slab. Building materials will be all cedar; black aluminum screen will then be added with cedar trim. Roof will be 1/2" OSB plywood with architectural shingles, Aluminum fascia and soffit to match existing roof. Exterior siding will be 1" x 8" horizontal cedar. Interior will have 3' knee walls on three sides with an 8' x 6'-8" French door leading into existing additiom interior walls and ceiling will have 1 "x 8" horizontal T&G cedar. Exterior siding will be painted first with a primer, and then brown to match existing house color.' All landscaping, sidewalks, fences will be restored to their original appearance. Any suggestions from the. committee in regards to materials being proposed would be greatly appreciated. C2017 • 102.40 1 1 9 11 ----p . I ,q -o 1 5 it 6 � I W A -y m lF .5-,T. 11 v ,- t �""r IIi+, f �t > **k s`iK%. xi-•=a4� A.==. .._ , .,._ '. �S__[ ; {^rT� s .r i { -i i RIC r F i- t' _ s ,:..M i" ` low MUM=� STAFF REPORT CONCERNING APPLICATION FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS Date: September 7, 2007 Application Number: COA# 2007-0905A Property Location: 710 Park Avenue Property Owner: Georges Enderle Landmark or District Designation: Local Landmark, Chapin Park LHD/NR Rating: Outstanding STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: This Eclectic Italianate was built for Mary Chapin Anderson and Andrew Anderson between 1875 and 1877. Four generations of the Anderson-DuShane family lived in this house until 1962. APPLICATION ITEMS: For Comparative purpose: Restoration on one window (one glass) in bay area of dining room. Replacement of one window (two glasses), next to restored window with Marvin Window (wood ultimate insert double hung window). This proposal will allow to compare the aesthetica) and thermal impact of the restoration solution and the replacement solution and provide valuable information for the how the window problem in my house can be solved satisfactorily. Standards and Guidelines for Chapin Park: II Existing Structures, C Windows and Doors: Please see attached pages 74 and 75 of the Chapin Park Standards and Guidelines for the verbatim Standards concerning windows. GROUP B LANDMARK STANDARDS B. Treatment: Treatment shall be defined as any change of surface materials that will not alter the style or original form. Such improvements include reproofing, glazing, or landscaping lawns and may involve a change that can potentially enhance or detract from the character of the landmark. A treatment change of any surface whether on the landmark or in its environment may require a Certificate of Appropriateness if it significantly alters the appearance of the landmark. Although these kinds of changes may not require a Building Permit, a Certificate of Appropriateness may be necessary. The commission should review the proposed treatment for character and style consistency with the original surfaces. RECOMMENDATION: Staff recommends approval of this experiment. The two window applications will be side by side under nearly identical conditions on the west side of the bay and will not be visible from the street. 6 Application -FOR- Certificate of Appropriateness Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend & St. Joseph County 125 S. Lafayette Blvd., South Bend, Indiana 46601 Mailing Address: County -City Building, South Bend, Indiana 4tAnl Phone: 574-235-9798 • Fax: 574-235-%78 Email: SBSjCHPC@co.st joseph.in.us Website: http//www.sqosephcoun"diana.com/sgchp/index.html OFFICE USE ONLY »»» DO NOT COMPLETE ANY ENTRIES CONTAINED IN THIS BOX »»» OFFICE USE ONLY Date Received .S�dr�-aa a -cc -1 Application Number o�4O'7 - l 96 SA Past Reviews: [B"OTS (Date oftast Reviao) [] NO Staff Approval authorized by: Title: Historic Commission Review Date: A007 (Q E� /,�j} Landmark �ocai Historic District (Name) (.:�4at !� M National Landmark [PlI ational Register District (Name) Certificate of Appropriateness: C] Denied ❑ Tabled ❑ Sent To Committee [] Approved and Issued DATE Address of Property for proposed work: Name of Property Owner(s): (Please Print) 710 Pa.,r k Ike. Stmt Number and Street Name GEor?_67F_S C.Nor 2LE Address of Property Owner(s): 7 ( 6 Po r�! A\0_. Contractor(s) Name: R(CI1IR0 C(1Aj`F1.F_ Contract Company Name: H © M P C r_rm c - Contractor Address: M 2( NtA b Ou. r (ZaA'( City: 00 WA tRC l M t Phone: 574 220 447S - Current Use of Building:Si f',Ih_ kA -j4 (Single Family – M00-4mily – Commercial – Government – Industrial – Vacant – etc.) Type of Building Construction: Node( � lqwmp (Wood Frame – Brick – Stone – Steel – Concrete – Other) Proposed Work: [] Ln -kind n Landscape n New [] Replacement (not in-kind) n Demolition (more than one box may be chucked) Description of Proposed Work: For Co k4 P �lve lot Wo O.S� eeghra+,o v-, &� 01K4, Crit-'aokv rantmss 1k b are"X_d ©Wgs root"' �C¢wnc+.,,� r ivir,otmw lccsres ted art moors w,'Kdow Ajtx r, - ftwUt'v, Gvi`kctpw l`Gv,: CA UA�wt,t;,r 41 se r+i c(a cab(e h t� tirt?�oGn w�} Owneri'Cu., 9,.. Fax: W4 C3 j 5`r95e-mail Gi AEt &P Pi (This offixetd with ant tme dcssgtter) �'1 � and/or — APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS ARE LISTED ON REVERSE SIDE — i University of Notre Dame Mendoza College of Business 393 Notre Dame, Indiana 46556-0399 —Dr. Georges Enderle —John T. Ryan, Jr. Professor of International Business Ethics Historic Preservation Commission St. Joseph County, Indiana 124 N. Lafayette Blvd. South Bend, IN 46601 Sir: Madam: Phone: 574-631-5595 Fax: 574-621-5255 E -Mail: genderle@nd.edu September 5, 2007 After consultation with Professor Alan DeFrees (University of Notre Dame), Mrs. Catherine Hostettler (Director) and Mr. Wayne Doolittle (Inspector), I would like to submit the following application: Restoration of one window (one glass) in the bay area of my dining room and Replacement of one window (two glasses), next to the restored window. with a Marvin window. This proposal will allow to compare the aesthetical and thermal impact of the restoration solution and the replacement solution and provide valuable information for the way how the window problem in my house can be solved satisfactorily. The replacement Marvin window is specified as shown in the enclosed product specification: • Wood ultimate insert double hung window The daylight openings of this window (i.e., sashes) are: • Width: 30 5/8 "(existing window/sashes: 31 1/4 ") • Height: 37 3/8 " (existing window/sashes: 39 ") The insulated glass (two glasses) is upgraded to Low E II with Argon gas. Price of one window: $558.48. With this proposal I hope to find a consensus that is acceptable to all parties. Sincerely, ,9,01y9 r . Georges Enderle Enclosure: Marvin window: Wood ultimate insert double hung window Marvin window: Quote of 1 unit (37" x 85") Guidebook Chapin Park Local Historic District Recommended The original shape and materials of the roof should be restored. Particular effort should be made to retain materials such as slate, tile and other unique materials not commonly found in new con- struction. Roof covering which is deteriorated beyond repair should be replaced with new mate- rial that matches as closely as possible the original in composition, size, shape, color and texture. Gutters and downspouts are often a necessary adjunct in order to prevent deterioration of the structure; they should be maintained whenever possible or replaced with a style comparable and suitable to the architectural period. Prohibited ROOF TYPES Nothing shall be done to change the essential character of the roof as viewed from a street by adding architectur- al features or large NIP co,�to� unsightly fixtures, or by using materials inappropriate to the style of the house. The roof shall not be stripped of architec- tural features important to its character. Not Recommended Overhanging eaves, soffit, brackets and gables should not be covered or enclosed when adding sid- ing to a building. C. WINDOWS AND DOORS Window and door frames are in most cases wood and vary Intel ' ' '' H.ad depending upon the style of lead , lazing the home. Many are double- tri', ; 1 top ran �`abbet pully parting bead hung windows with wood �TT: muntin trim and sills. Brick structures 1'"'b ,rr r- 1 t —meeting rail weights have stone sills and brick lin- 4 cash _ p„,� weight pocket tels. In some cases where alu- I' pariing bras �.mb t�t1�t I —slit. Interior stop minum siding has been ,'. ,' pull r - applied the window and sill _\bottom rail '•y sillr � Nool Mwnin Profiles door trim has been covered. ' ”` "" r ' Z ' � These are only three examples About half of the structures in ''; 5 ; s+ll of many pnsende prnfiles. Mun• l_ tins ran mnlribute substantially the district have aluminum wlnaow Elevation _ winjow Sections to win= significance. storm windows; the other half have wood storm windows. Required Original windows and doors shall be retained including sashes, lintels, sills, shutters, decorative glass, pediments, hoods and hardware. When deteriorated beyond repair, they shall be replaced with units and trim resembling the original. Casement windows adapted the English tradition h. � I of using wrought iron casements with leaded it ? 1 cames for residential use. Rolled steel casements q t (either single, as shown, or paired) were popular in the 1920s for Cottage -style residences and 1l Gothic -style campus architecture. More stream- ' t lined casements were popular in the 1930s for institutional and small industrial buildings. Page 74 Chapin Park Local Historic District Recommended Guidebook Wood storm windows and doors painted or finished to match the original should be used but should not damage existing frames. If new sashes or doors are installed, the existing or original materials, design and hardware should be used. When metal storm doors are used, they should be painted, anodized or coated to match the existing. When awnings are used, they should be of can- vas material. Piohibited Original doors, windows and hardware shall not be discarded when they can be restored and reused in place. New window and door open- ings, which would alter the scale and propor- tion of the building may not be introduced. Inappropriate new window and door features such as metal, vinyl or fiberglass awnings, hoods or aluminum insulating glass combina- tions that require removal of original windows and doors, shall not be installed. Not Recommended Fake shutters that would detract from the existing character or appearance of the building should not be used. Figure 9. Appropriate types of weatherstripping for metal windows. Weatherstripping is an important part of upgrading the thermal efficiency of historic steel windows. The chart at right shows the jamb section of the window with the weatherstripping in place. Drawings: Sharon C. Park, AIA -zTEMcols. A ACRYLIC MELS p ytx� *imp 46NEM INTEMIM JWMV INTERIM Fi&ure 8. Two examples of adding a second layer of glazin in order to improve the thermal performance of historic steel windgiws. Drawing: Sharon C. Park, AIA Spring -metal ExTrmlon Spring -metal comes in bronze, brass or 9AMNstainless steel with an integral friction -fit y clip. The weatherstripping is applied after FMME Z the repaired windows are painted to avoid galvanic corrosion. This type of thin weath- erstripping is intended -for windows in good condition. WEATHFWAtr Vinyl Strips ExTEMiori Vinyl strips are scored and folded into a "V' configuration. Applied adhesive is necessary which will increase the thickness of the weatherstripping, making it inap- FriAMC propriate for some situations. The weather- strip king is generally applied to the r—wmTNr/witr widow after painting. Foam Tape ExTEM10A 'Lu�anler�xn�r Sealant Bead ExTEMilori ykiHI? FMMC L Q,�uFanl crsnn�r Page 75 Closed cell foam tape comes either with or without an adhesive backing. It is effective for windows with a pap of a proximately 1 /4" and is easy to install. I�owever, this type of weatherstripping will need frequent replacement on windows .in regular use. The metal sections should be cleaned of all dirt and grease prior to its application. This very effective type of weatherstrip- ping involves the application of a clean bead of firm -setting caulk on the primed frame with a polyethylene bond breaker tape on the operable sash. The window is then closed until the bead has set and takes the form of the gap. The sash is then opened and the tape is removed leaving the set caulk as the weatherstripping. WOOD ULTIMATE INSERT DOUBLE HUNG SECTION DETAILS: OPERATOR SCALE: 3" = 1'0" A E, mN U. 49/16- 11/16' (116) 1 (17) t \ \ \1 A 2 27/32' t (l72) 1 rn� �. 00 t 2.11/32- (60) i Em z (ti 4'c LL 00 i 3 9/1) / 127/32' _ (47) 11/4* 32)T ( I1 � r Head Jamb, Checkrail, with Beveled Frame 1/4' (6) 11/16" (17) 227132- (72) 27/32"(72) 1 00C C a 0 2 11 /32' (610) 1 1 C �•yCy N 6 00 i 3 9/16" / (91) 227/32- 1 27/32'1 1/4" (72) (32) Head Jamb, Checkrail, with Beveled Frame installed in existing frame MARVIN '' Windows and Moor Made foryou: 4 9/16' 11/16- (116) 1 (17) 2 27/3 (7I2) 1 .E I PC T 00 211/32- (60) 11/32'(so) .E 2 00 1 3 9/16' / (91) 1 219132" 1 7/32' (31) f Head Jamb, Checkrail, with Flat Frame 22f / (7l2 1 1 C C T 00 211/32" 11,03 37.9 2 19/32" (66) Head Jamb, Checkrail, with Flat Frame installed in existing frame (60) EN m i o LL Oi L C �C 6 C 00 _ 1 3 (9'913 ) ( 1 17/32" (31) . 11,03 37.9 2 19/32" (66) Head Jamb, Checkrail, with Flat Frame installed in existing frame WOOD ULTIMATE INSERT DOUBLE HUNG TRIM KIT NOT TO SCALE t t?43 Existing Frame Existing Frame I \ I Head Jamb I Trim 1 Head Jamb Trim �Trim F/I Side Jamb Trim Exterior Side and Top Trim (W8602) 37.18 Sill Trim MARVIN—°' Windows and Doors `1� Made for you: T . I I I / I / I � � I Existing Frame Sill Trim Exterior Sill Trim (W8599) Version 6.13 MARVIN WINDOW QUOTE 08/31/07 , *** CAUTION: IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT A MINIMUM OF 1/4 INCH BE ADDED *** *** TO THE ROUGH OPENING HEIGHT WHEN USING MARVIN SILLGUARD *** *** UNIT AVAILABILITY AND PRICE SUBJECT TO CHANGE *** *** NET PRICE (in USD) *** 6315-710 REQUESTED SHIP DATE; BILL WERNTZ SUPPLY SHIP VIA: OUR TRUCK TO: 1002 KERR ST P0: SOUTH BEND, IN 46601 JOB NA. .E: GEORGE Ei`JDERLE SHIP WERNTZ SUPPLY CONTACT: BRUCE DARR TO: 1002 KERR ST PHONE: (574) 232-4881 SOUTH BEND, IN 46601 VER. 6.08 08/31/07 QTY: 1 MARK UNIT - ' I ��I o O � � ri .� �: �-'T LU r;; _ I-{ ;. W INDH 497.64 IO 37"X85" IG - 1 LITE LOW E II W/ARGON 46.80 EXISTING SILL ANGLE - 10 DEG. 0.00 UNIT WILL BE BUILT WITH 8 DEG FRAME BEVEL. TP SASH LOCK 0.00 4 9/16" JAMBS 0.00 BA PINE INTERIOR 0.00 PR PINE EXTERIOR 14.04 TOTAL NET PRICE 558.48 v a AS VIEWED FROM THE EXTERIOR 710 Park Avenue - Full, size elevation proposed TI. t, .X1Sta 11 - M I S 710 Park Ave'nue - Full s-lAte, elev'a'tion -existing I I -Z.`om� bined Ledger by Location (Current Month) as of 08-31-2007 Saint Joseph County Note: Includes transactions after the last posted date of 07/01/2007. Fund 013 County Special Gifts for 01/01/2007 thru 08/31/2007 Loc 037 Historic Preservation Budget Effective Transaction Transaction Account Code Date Date Type Amount Other Data 013.00000.000.037 Gen Gov't General GOVT. Historic Preservation Estimated Unreceived Revenue Balances Revenue Receipts Balance Appropriation Encumbrance Expenditure Unexpended: 9,028.25 Current 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 Unencumbered: 9,028.25 Total 0.00 0.00 0.00 9,028.25 0.00 0.00 Cash: 0.00 013.05600.000.037 Refunds General Gov'T. Historic Preservation Refunds General GovT. Historic Preservation - Estimated Unreceived Revenue Balances Revenue Receipts Balance Appropriation Encumbrance Expenditure Unexpended: 0.00 Current 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 Unencumbered: 0.00 Total '0.00 1,260.00 (1,260.00) 0.00 0.00 0.00 Cash: 1,260.00 013.06400.000.037 Gifts&Contributions General GoVT. Historic Preservation Estimated Unreceived Revenue Balances Revenue Receipts Balance Appropriation Encumbrance Expenditure Unexpended: 0.00 Current 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 Unencumbered: 0.00 Total 0.00 1,387.00 (1,387.00) 0.00 0.00 0.00 Cash: 1,387.00 013.23240.000.037 Other Supplies General GOVT. Historic Preservation Estimated Unreceived Revenue Balances Revenue Receipts Balance Appropriation Encumbrance Expenditure Unexpended: 2,552.00 Current 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 Unencumbered: 2,552.00 Total 0.00 0.00 0.00 2,552.00 0.00 0.00 Cash: 0.00 013.42010.367.037 Buildings & Structures Gifts&Contdb Historic Preservation 08/09/2007 08/09/2007 Claim/RegDocket 30,000.00 BK:008 CK:399519Inv.001-42010-367-037 Vend:001565 St Jos Cc Treasurer Estimated Unreceived Revenue Balances Revenue Receipts Balance Appropriation Encumbrance Expenditure Unexpended: 22,000.00 Current 0.00 0.00 0.00 30,000.00 Unencumbered: 22,000.00 Total 0.00 0.00 0.00 52,000.00 0.00 30,000.00 Cash: (30,000.00) . User ID KSOBECK11 09/04/2007 12:41 PM Page 475 .cion E oWet aS Of 0$-31-2007 Saint Joseph County ..ote: Includes transactions after the last posted date of 07-01.2007. Fund: 013 County Special Gifts for 01/01/2007 thru 08/31/2007 Loc: 037 Historic Preservation Account Original Addt'UAdj Total Unencumbered Unexpended Object Description Appropriation Appropriation Appropriation Encumbrance Expenditure Balance/Percent Balance/Percent 00000 Gen Govt 0.00 9,028.25 9,028.25 0.00 0.00 9,028.25 9,028.25 000 General GovT. 100.00 100.00 00000 Totals*fk*tltt*=tt*«!!RR=t«tttt«*Yt*Y:=f=Rtf#R 0,00 9,028.25 9,028.25 0.00 0.00 9,028.25 9,028.25 100.00 100.00 23240 Other Supplies 0.00 2,552.00 2,552.00 0.00 0.00 2,552.00 2,552.00 000 General Gov'T. 100.00 100.00 20000 Totals='`*'`t«*"««=Rt*t=«=«=R*««=ttYRt,R##,** 0.00 2,552.00 2,552.00 0.00 0.00 2,552.00 2,552.00 100.00 100.00 42010 Buildings & Structures 0.00 52,000.00 52,000.00 0.00 30,000.00 22,000.00 22,000.00 387 Gifts&Contrib 42.31 42.31 40000 Totals kf##ttfktMt=*#»t*M#fMMftM#=##kY•t*1RY** 0,00 52,000.00 52,000.00 0.00 30,000.00 22,000.00 22,000.00 42.31 42.31 Location Totals,*#1f=:t#:*«::.ttt.«YYt«RYtt*tYtYRf:#1R:Y 0.00 63,580.25 63,580.25 0.00 30,000.00 33,580.25 33,580.25 52.82 52.82 Investment Accounts 0'00 Transfer Accounts 0.00 30,000.00 User ID KSOBECKII 09/04/200712:24 PM Page 153 000 General Gov'T. 32050 II Location Judget as of 08-31-2007 000 Note: includes transactions after the last posted date of 07-01-2007. Fund: 001 County General for 01/01/2007 thru 08/31/2007 000 Loc: 037 Historic Preservation 32200 Account 000 Original Object Description Appropriation 11075 Deputy Director 30,000.00 000 General GovT. 700.00 11309 Historic Preservation Admin. 36,050.00 000 General GovT. 28,000.00 10000 Totalsfffftiff.fffff.lRtff!!fflflttffflftfftff 66,050.00 21030 Office Supplies 1,250.00 000 General GovT. 3,208.82 22010 Gas Oil & Lubricants 883.00 000 General GovT. 1,654.73 22120 Garage & Motor Supplies 700.00 000 General GovT. 9,170.42 20000 Totals fatffffffRRRlflflttttttaa.aaaa„' 2,833.00 31070 Other Contractual Services 28,000.00 000 General GovT. 0.00 32020 Travel ' 425.00 000 General Gov'T. 32050 Instruction & Training 000 General GovT. 32053 Public Relations 000 General GovT. 32200 Telephone 000 General GodT. 32350 Postage 000 General GovT. 33010 Publication Of Legal Notices 000 General GovT. 1,000.00 2,570.00 Addt'VAdj Total 160.00 Appropriation Appropriation Encumbrance 0.00 30,000.00 0.00 0.00 36,050.00 0.00 0.00 66,050.00 0.00 59.50 1,309.50 19.78 0.00 883.00 0.00 0.00 700.00 0.00 59.50 2,892.50 19.78 0.00 28,000.00 0.00 1,129.00 1,554.00 0.00 150.00 1,150.00 0.00 638.82 3,208.82 0.00 160.00 0.00 160.00 0.00 2,160.00 400.36 2,560.36 0.00 500.00 0.00 500.00 0.00 Saint Joseph County User ID KSOBECK11 09/04/2007 12:24 PM Page 80 Unencumbered Unexpended Expenditure Balance/Percent Balance/Percent 19,615.45 10,384.55 10,384.55 34.62 34.62 23,571.18 12,478.82 12,478.82 34.62 34.62 43,186.63 22,863.37 22,863.37 34.62 34.62 280.41 1,009.31 1,029.09 77.08 78.59 409.05 473.95 473.95 53.67 53.67 528.53 171.47 171.47 24.50 24.50 1,217.99 1,654.73 1,674.51 57.21 57.89 18,829.58 9,170.42 9,170.42 32.75 32.75 1,554.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 225.00 925.00 925.00 80.43 80.43 3,151.52 57.30 57.30 1.79 1.79 0.00 160.00 160.00 100.00 100.00 1,812.18 748.18 748.18 29.22 29.22 71.51 428.49 428.49 85.70 85.70 User ID KSOBECK11 09/04/2007 12:24 PM Page 80 Location Uget as of 08-31-2007 Saint Joseph County Note: Includes transactions after the last posted date of 07-01-2007. Fund: 001 County General for 01/01/2007 thru 08/31/2007 Loc: 037 Historic Preservation Account Original Addt'VAdj Total Unencumbered Unexpended Object Description Appropriation Appropriation Appropriation Encumbrance Expenditure Balance/Percent Balance/Percent 33100 Printing 3,000.00 5,555.00 8,555.00 5,528.00 594.98 2,432.02 7,960.02 000 General Gov'T. 28.43 93.05 37100 Auto Lease 500.00 0.00 500.00 0.00 0.00 500.00 500.00 000 General GovT. 100.00 100.00 39010 Dues & Subscription 750.00 0.00 750.00 0.00 344.95 405.05 405.05 000 General Gov'T. 54.01 54.01 39600 Refunds, Awards & Indemnities 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 22,762.58 (22,762.58) (22,762.58) 000 General GovT. 0.00 0.00 39750 Data Processing 1,000.00 0.00 1,000.00 0.00 0.00 1,000.00 1,000.00 000 General GovT. 100.00 100.00 39980 Funds W/O Approp. 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 12,391.75 (12,391.75) (12,391.75) 000 General GovT. 0.00 0.00 30000 Totals """""""""""""""""""" 40,065.00 7,873.18 47,938.18 5,528.00 61,738.05 (19,327.87) (13,799.87) (40.32) (28.79) 42010 Buildings & Structures 0.00 30,000.00. 30,000.00 0.00 30,000.00 0.00 0.00 367 Gifts&Contrib 0.00 0.00 44250 Office Machines 0.00 3,651.82 3,651.82 0.00 3,651.82 0.00 0.00 000 General GovT. 0.00 0.00 40000 Totals """"""""""""...... "" 0.00 33,651.82 33,651.82 0.00 33,651.82 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 Location Totals """"""""""""""""""""` 108,948.00 41,584.50 150,532.50 5,547.78 139,794.49 5,190.23 10,738.01 3.45 7.13 Investment Accounts 0.00 Transfer Accounts 0.00 139,794.49 User ID KSOBECK11 09/04/2007 12:24 PM Page 81 MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND & SAINT JOSEPH COUNTY August 20, 2007 1P Floor Conference Room County — City Building, South Bend, Indiana Members Present: Todd Zeiger, JoAnn Sporleder, Timothy Klusczinski, Martha Choitz, Mary Jane Chase, Lynn Patrick, Catherine Hostetler Members Absent: Jerry Ujdak; Linda Riley Staff Present: Catherine Hostetler, Amy Herdman, Shawn Peterson, Wayne Doolittle Also Present: Don Sporleder, Liz Maradik, Marty Inglesby, Ryan Kring CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL: President Tim Klusczinski called to order at 7:00 pm I. PUBLIC HEARING *Note: C of A application number 2007-0716, scheduled to be heard at this meeting, was withdrawn by the petitioner via email. Application Number: 2007-0719 Property Location: 1228 E. Wayne Street North Property Owner: Colleen and Martin Inglesby Landmark or District Designation: E. Wayne Street LHD Rating: Contributing STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCEAUSTORIC CONTEXT: This Colonial Revival residence was built in 1927 for Roy W. and Luella Kilmer. Mr. Kilmer was a paneler at Studebaker. The house is believed to have remained in the Kilmer family until 1966 when it was sold to John J. and Margaret Loughlin, a teacher at Adams High School. It is currently owned by Colleen and Martin Inglesby. APPLICATION ITEM: Remove'Crab Apple Tree in front yard. Tree blocks view of home, blocks sunlight to other landscape features. Landscape Company suggested removal to preserve other trees/bushes/lawns. Also to remove front bushes to be replaced with more appropriately sized landscape. Will use recommendations from Historic Guide Book STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES: I The Environment, B. Building Site, Landscaping and Accessories: Required: Major landscaping items, fencing, walkways, private yard lights, signs (house numbers) and benches which reflect the properties history and development shall be retained. Dominant land contours shall be retained... Recommended: New Site work should be based upon actual knowledge of the past appearance of the property found in photographs, drawing and newspapers. New site work should be appropriate to the existing surrounding site elements in scale, type and appearance. Plant materials and trees in close proximity to the building that are causing deterioration to the building's historic fabric should be removed. However, trees and plant materials that must be removed should be immediately replaced by suitable flora. Appendix B Landscape Assessment Summary is attached for reference. STAFF RECOMMENDATION: Staff recommends approval. The crab apple tree is interfering with the landscaping in the lawn and the view of the house from the street. The old overgrown, front bushes will be replaced with more appropriate bushes. Klusczinski: Thank you very much, is the petitioner present? Care to make a presentation? Inglesby: Sure. Klusczinski: It might be better if you were up here, so that the microphones can pick it up. Klusczinski: State your name and address for the record, please. Inglesby: My name is Martin Inglesby, and the address is 1228 E. Wayne Street North. My wife and I just moved in thereat the end of June. There's a crab apple tree in the yard, which I think from an aesthetic standpoint swallows the yard, leaves crab apples allover the grass, and the roots are up out of the ground, so we'd like to get permission to help preserve the area. One of the bushes that's in the pictures is dead now, and the tree is blocking sunlight to the right side of the house, so we'd like to get it taken out. Klusczinski: Very good. You are the property owner? Inglesby: Yes. Klusczinski: Just to clary. The Chair recognizes Commissioners with questions for the petitioner. Sporleder: Are we only acting upon removal of the crab apple tree and then there will be another C of A for the landscaping that will replace it? I don't see a landscaping plan with this petition. Inglesby: We're not really going to replace it, just re -sod the ground and get the stump removed and sod it so that's it's an open area. Klusczinski: Very good, any other questions? Sporleder: Excuse me, this did say something about removing something... some bushes, and being replaced with something more appropriate. I guess I would be more comfortable if I knew what was being prepared here. Inglesby: At this time we're not really sure what we're going to replace it with. The bush to the right that kind of sits next to the crab apple tree is the one that's dead. And its the same type of bush on the other side that's blocking the window. I had a landscaping company come out and we're not really sure if we're going to wait till the Spring to do that or what but we're hoping to get the crab apple removed. Yes, and the two bushes, the one on the right is dead right now, so we need to get that removed and replaced with a more appropriate bush. Sporleder: So you'll come back to us again for the replacement? Inglesby: Sure. Klusczinski: You wouldn't have any problem with us striking the phrase where it suggests that you would be replacing it? Inglesby: That's fine. Klusczinski: To clarify the record? Ok. Inglesby: So, I just have to let you know what type of bushes I'll be putting in there, is that how that works? Klusczinski: Yes. The reverse of what you're here for tonight. Inglesby: Ok, that 's fine. Sporleder: And you can check with Catherine because she's got a.... Hostetler: He has a copy of the book. Klusczinski: Any other questions? Patrick: I want to make a comment, just reading the landscape assessment, about the East Wayne Street local historic district. (quoting) To preserve the character of the district, each residence should have either trees in the tree lawn or a large tree in the front yard Hostetler: He's got trees in the tree lawn. Patrick: Ok, that's all I've got. Klusczinski: Very good With that, the Chair opens the public hearing. Is there any member of the public wishing to speak in support of the petition? Any member of the public wishing to speak in opposition? Hearing none on both occasions, l close the public hearing. I'll entertain a motion. Zeiger:1'll make a motion to approve C of A 2007-0719 as submitted. Patrick: I second. Sporleder: Can I ask one more question? In this picture there appears to be another tree that is very close to the house, is that something that's coming out with this front stuff? Inglesby: No, it's not. That's a birch, I believe. Klusczinski: Motion is on the table we need a second. Patrick: I seconded. 01 Klusczinski: Oh, sorry Lynn. Thank you. Any discussion? All in favor? (Ayes are heard) All opposed? (Silence) Motion carries. Thank you. Moved: IZeiger To approve C of A 2007-0719 Second: Patrick Approved Unanimously Application Number: 2007-0806A Property Location: 106 N. Main Street JMS Building Property Owner: John Friedline Landmark or District Designation: Local Landmark and in MRA National Register District Rating: Outstanding STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCElIIISTORIC CONTEXT: The JMS building was designed by noted Chicago architect, Solon Spencer Beman in 1910. It was commissioned by John Mohler Studebaker to be the best office building with fireproof construction -reinforced concrete, granite, terra cotta marble and fireproof tile. It was designated as a local landmark in 1998. APPLICATION ITEM: Install five non -illuminated awnings per enclosed renderings. Awnings are non -illuminated made with Sunbrella fabric on aluminum frame, closed ends and 6" valance per direction of DRB (Downtown Design Review Board) rep., Jim Markle. The awnings will be secured by tapping into pre existing aluminum tubing above the windows and not into the building. STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES: B Standards: F. Signs: No neon or flashing signs will be permitted unless they are original to the structure. Billboards and super -graphics will also be disallowed. Only one appropriate identifying sign will be permitted per business. STAFF RECOMMENDATION: Staff recommends approval. The awnings will not be affixed to the main structure of the building. The awnings with their logo blend in with color and design with the modern portion of the fagade. Klusczinski: Thank you very much, is the petitioner present? Kring: Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, thank you for having me this evening. My name is Ryan Kring, and I'm with US Sign Crafters. I'd just like to highlight a couple of things that were mentioned in the staff report. I'll try not to take a lot of your time. Our proposal is for non - illuminated awnings, the awnings are made from a thick woven fabric that has no opportunity to be lit up at night. They are attached to the square tubing on the building. Nothing is going to penetrate into the granite walls. They're going to serve to enhance the granite walls of the JMS Building. We feel that... and would appreciate any questions that you may have. Patrick: I have one question. Is Ugly Mugs the company that's planning to rent that first f loon? Kring: Yes. Patrick: What are they? Kring: They are a Christian coffee house. They've just install a copper ceiling that's really nice. You guys should check it out. Klusczinski: There are aggregate panels, are they going to remain? Kring: Yes. Klusczinski: So the awnings will cover them? Kring: We designed these so that they wouldn't interfere with anything on the building, and that . they would be the least intrusive possible. Per the direction of Jim Markle, our original proposal was not to have the ends closed, and not to have a valance. And if we did have a valance, we wanted to put copy on it. He recommended strongly that we put a valance on it, no copy and close the ends up and we were more than happy to work with him on that. Zeiger: What's the color? Kring: It's going to be black with sort of a teat blue. It really blends in with the granite that's on the building. I have a color copy. Sporleder: May I ask a question? There are three awning profiles here, which one are you doing? The oval one or one of...? 3 Kring: Ours is going to be very similar to this, the only reason that I showed the other awnings is to show the consistency in the area. Awnings are very common, in the downtown corridor. Sporleder: In this picture it looks like this is going to be your writing on the front, top slope of it. Kring: Yes, we actually shortened up the projection so it's a little more readable for people traveling along the street. We did have it projecting our further, but we shrunk it up to make it more legible. Klusczinski: Thank you very much. Any more questions for the petitioner? Any Commission discussion? Zeiger: Did the Commission approve Zirkle's sign? It's on the same building? Do you remember? Hostetler: No, not off hand. Zeiger: I just wondered about that_and the Christian Science Reading room the same deal. Doolittle: The awnings were approved by the Commission. Chase: Zirkle? I don't remember Zirkle... Zeiger: I'm sorry, I was just curious as they're all on the same building and... Hostetler: That's kind of not germane to this because... Zeiger: Well, it is in a sense because they're all on the same building and I'm just looking at design. I don't like Zirkle's, just trying to get some consistency on that building over time. I'm not advocating for the Zirkle design, I'm just saying that as that one gets replaced; we should look at that with context of the use. Iflwhen Zirkle moves out or replaces that, we should look at that more closely... Hostetler: That would be a good idea. Patrick: Maybe you'll think of that if you get the contract if that ever gets replaced. Kring: Sure. Klusczinski: Very good, any other discussion? Hearing none, I open the public hearing, is there anyone wishing to speak in support of the petition? Hearing none, is there any member of the public wishing to speak in opposition? Again hearing none, I close public hearing. Any other final comments? Very good, ok. I'll entertain a motion. Patrick: I'd like to move to approve application number 2007-0806A for 106 North Main Street awnings as submitted Zeiger: I'll second. Klusczinski: Very good, motion on the floor and has been seconded. All in favor? (Ayes are heard) Opposed? Chase: I abstain. Klusczinski: Verygood. Motion carries. Moved: Patrick Second: Zeiger To approve C of A 2007-0806A Approved 6-0 Chase abstains Application Number: 2007-0806B Property Location: 508-508 % Lindsey Property Owner: NNN Landmark or District Designation: Chapin Park LHD Rating: Non contributing STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: Bunker Young House is an American Four Square built between 1902 and 1903. Mr. Bunker was the Chief of Police for several years. APPLICATION ITEM: Removal of aluminum siding and replace with smooth cement fiber product to match lap, width and texture of original siding. STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES: II Existing Structures A. Building Materials 0 Original exterior building materials in the district include brick, stucco, clapboard, wood shingles and brick or stone masonry. In some instances vinyl, composite and aluminum siding have been applied over the original material Required: Original exterior building materials shall be retained when possible. Deterioration of wood materials shall be presented though repair, cleaning and painting. The existing architectural detail around windows, porches, doors and eaves shall be retained or replaced by replicas of the same design when deteriorated beyond repair.... Recommended: Whenever possible, the original building materials should be restored. When maintaining or repairing original siding is not feasible aluminum, vinyl or composite siding may be used. When used over wood surfaces, the siding should be the same size and style as the original wood. Every effort should be made to retain original trim around windows, doors, cornices, gables, eaves and other architectural features.... STAFF RECOMMENDATION: Staff can not make a recommendation since it does not know the condition of the original siding and can not make a determination at this time. Staff requests that it be allowed to work with NNN to make recommendations and return its recommendations to either the Standards and Maintenance Committee or the Commission. YJusczinski: Thank you, is the petitioner present? Maradik: My name is Liz Maradik, resident City Planner with the Near Northwest Neighborhood Incorporated. The 1VAW is asking for a C ofAfor the property at 508 Lindsey so that they can apply the cement fiberboard siding which it currently has aluminum siding on the building. Existing clapboard siding will remain in place and the new siding will overlay it so it will not require the removal of the original material. The property has been a nuisance rental which has been the site of drug use and prostitution for many years and the AWA'plans to convert the existing duplex back to a single family residence and sell it to a low to moderate income owner occupant, as it continues its efforts to preserve and stabilize the area. You may notice in the initial request for CqfA in 2005, the AWN had planned to repaint the structure, using Historic Landmarks Foundation's standards. In the past, to work in partnership with the HPC, agreed to paint houses that were historically significant, did not have income restrictions, or were in an existing historic district. However, since that time, the Board has re-evaluated its position. In particular, in 2005, AWN utilized a paint finish at the property on 702 Cushing and had disappointing results. The NIVN utilized Historic Landmarks standards for the painting, had a Historic Landmarks approved contractor, and the preservation specialist from Historic Landmarks had been thereto oversee the project. Unfortunately, the paint did not holdup to the elements. The AWN Board is committed to providing a property that requires limited maintenance for the first 10 years after purchase, and has been forced to reconsider painting whether it's the best finishfor the properties. In this situation at 702 Cushing, the home owner has put vinyl siding over the house, stating that they did not have the means or the ability to keep up with the on-going maintenance to the property due to their age and fired income. Due to this experience and the income restrictions placed on ATAW properties which require the sale of properties to low to moderate income households, the AWN Board is not comfortable to place home owners in this on-going maintenance situation. The AWN has numerous experiences in similar instances such as this where paint has fallen into disrepair due to limitations of time and money. The Board is committed to making exteriors replicate the existing architecture and is therefore proposing the use of a smooth cement fiberboard made to match the same lap as the original siding. It would not be apparent to the naked eye that it is not the original wood and would be an improvement over the existing aluminum siding. Cement board siding is quite a costly upgrade, but the product comes factory finished and offers a 30 year warrantee; making it a more sustainable solution as it does not require the yearly maintenance of painted surface. If you're unfamiliar with the cement board, you can see it on a number of ArAW properties as well as the homes that ND has built on Notre Dame Ave. The requested application will not alter the original design of. the property, but offer a contemporary method and material that should be acceptable based on HPC guidelines. I'd be happy to answer any questions. Klusczinski: Very good. Can you site for me the similarities that the NNW has been able to evaluate between the property that failed and it's paint and the current property so that we know that we're comparing apples to apples. Maradik: As far as just the.... Klusczinski: How would you be able to anticipate that the paint would fail on this one, and have you determined or given any assignable cause why the paint failed on the other property? Maradik: They don't know why that paint failed; they did follow the Historic Landmarks... Klusczinski: So there has not been an evaluation? Maradik: Yeah. They followed the same standards and the contractors did the standards of Historic Landmark when they completed the job and I would be of the assumption that it would be to the same standard at this property. Klusczinski: Do you have a date, or can you approximate a date when the other property was finished? Maradik: It was in 2045, my guess is over the summer, but I don't have an exact... Klusczinski: If you would be leaving, I guess the jamb treatment and trim in place, and cladding the entire house again how would you handle the different layer elevation of the new siding atop, for the more decorative elements of the house that we're trying to preserve for our interests. Maradik: Since it already has aluminum siding on it, there's a good chance, I'm assuming, some of the pieces or elements that you might be talking about aren't existing any longer underneath if they were removed when the siding was placed on it. Klusczinski: No, Iguess the basis for my question was trying to determine how we would re-emphasize the feature aspect of the window components and everything. 1 know that for aluminum siding there are different ways that that's handled. With vinyl siding you have a j -channel and everything like that, but if you're going to celebrate those features once again to be, I guess, in sympathy, with the other standards of the district, how would you be able to bring those elements out without creating a lot more additional work also? Maradik: If I'm understanding your question right, I know that in other houses the NNW at least, as far as colors that they choose helps to accentuate things like windows and doorjambs and whatnot. Klusczinski: So, only by color and not by building members and trim? Maradik: They would probably still use something similar to, maybe the cement board or something along those lines if it needed to accentuate... Klusczinski: Do you have any houses as an example where that's been done, or is this going to be a guinea pig case? Maradik: I'm sure that whatever they're redoing at this house would be something similar to houses that they've already completed. Hostetler: Tim, in 2005 at this particular residence, we had a C of A approved to retain 2 originals for re -use, replacement of replacement windows with Kolbe and Kolbe 1 over I double hung windows, porch rehabilitation, removal of concrete porch floor and metal supports and railings and replacement with wood tongue and groove flooring, bead board ceiling, columns and spindles per photos submitted, details of porch and rear elevation will be worked out with HPC staff. Removal of second front door, in-kind replacement of roof, gutters and side walks, and then they were going to repaint and so they haven't done this work yet so we extended them the C of A for everything but the painting, and that's why she's here. Zeiger: So all of that other work is going to go on? Hostetler: Yes, all of that other work is going to be going on, they're going to be replacing the replacement windows with the Kolbe and Kolbe windows which will not pose a problem, I don't think. R Zeiger: There will still be an issue. Hostetler: There will be an issue, but... Zelger: I have a question when you're done. Klusczinski: Please. I have one question for staff. When I was reviewing the Chapin Park guidebook, page 72, the prohibited section also suggests that wood siding shall not be resurfaced with material that is inappropriate or was unavailable when the building was constructed. And it gives some examples, and Shawn, legally, the examples it gives, it doesn't suggest that it discludes anything else, or excludes anything else that's not mentioned, I think that it was trying to be helpful with a few other examples, maybe some brick siding material, imitation brick siding material, that kind of thing, but I'm not sure legally if that also suggests that the whole emphasis here or the drive is to make sure that we could gradually get away from houses that have dual cladding on them and if that would even be relevant right now despite the NNN's best efforts to use maybe a cement fiberboard over vinyl or some other building material. Peterson: I'd have to look at the standards themselves and see and get back to you. I'm not familiar with how it's worded to know if this aspect would be, would fall within that prohibited section. Again, the guidelines are there to distinguish what is and what is not appropriate and so to the extent that they overlap I think that within you discretion to see which category does that fit within. Klusczinski: And the follow up to that, I think that its... under required on page 70 also suggests that ample ventilation must be afforded to the structure when siding is installed in order to prevent increased deterioration of the structure from moisture and insects. Under the impression that that probably relates to a second layer of cladding on a house because of the lack of moisture breath ability. Peterson:. You may be more familiar here, are they removing the aluminum siding to put the stuff right up over the wood then? Klusczinski: Yes. Peterson: I'm not familiar with the use of portage or Portland cement. Herdman: That's just a gray, your standard ugly cement. Peterson: Well obviously... its one thing to say that this was unavailable, but new technologies are such that you probably want to look at the essence... is it inappropriate in the sense of the look and how it occurs on this. But it says that new material, should not be resurfaced with new material that's inappropriate or unavailable when the building was built. So you look at artificial stone is listed, so how much does that mesh with cement, and it seems to be that it would be close Klusczinski: And cement board, I thinkfor all practical purposes, you wouldn't be able to know that it's not wood cladding it's just a different formulation. Dimensionally, it's the same kind of thing. But I'm not sure what the breath ability of cement fiberboard is and I'm not sure maybe what the emphasis on the guidebook would try and be getting back to the earlier C of A case that we had tonight and the comment that Todd made about if we'd ever had the opportunity to evaluate signs on the same building at some time in the future we should also try to direct so that there is some uniformity. Here, it would be uniformity in the district, and maybe a gradual way to try to get away from cladding on cladding, which I don't think in my opinion leads to the historic integrity of the neighborhood. Those are my thoughts. Ok, Todd, you had a question. Zeiger: You started to talk about what I'm concerned about. When they put that wide aluminum siding on, they generally go over the top of the casing around the window and the corner boards so you'll have a wide board. That's what you were trying to ask about. So you'll have the window sash and then a wide board around the window and that goes out to the corner boards. And that wide aluminum is furred (?) out and goes over the top of that so that you don't lose the actual casing itself. 'My concern is, without taking off the clapboard, you're going to have to come over the top of the corner boards and all the window trim with trim again, otherwise it's not going to look right. There's no way to terminate that cement board at the edge otherwise your casing board is back. Are you 7 following what I'm explaining? Because right now the edge of the clapboard follows to the edge of that casing, that's how they work, and the aluminum is on top of that. Taking off the aluminum you'll have all that back. There's noway to put more clapboard - whether it's clapboard or cement board or whatever new material over the existing clapboard and have it work with the corners and the trim on the siding around the windows. Does that make any sense? Maradik: Yeah, I think it does. Zeiger: And so I've just seen enough of these sort of these types of aluminum siding installations that we just know what it's going to look like. It's all going to be there except for the crown above the window, that's going to be lost. So if we're... it's a question as much as a comment I was just curious how you're going to install it, and my assumption is, and it needs to be clarified, you're going to have to put new strips down the front, and deal with all that trim somehow. It gets complicated after some time. I do have a couple of questions about the Cushing Street thing since you mentioned Landmarks. It's kind of surprising, especially two years, that's pretty radical, that tells me something else is going on with that house. Does it have blown -in insulation? Maradik: No. Zeiger: That's really bizarre. Who was the contractor? Maradik: I don't know. Zeiger: I'd be really curious, if you could let me know, I'd be curious to follow up on that. It's not... Maradik: Wait, I actually do know, it was Home Works, but they've gone bankrupt. Zeiger: There you go. So, I just, I'm suspect of that job because something isn't right there and NMN saying that followed the specifications to the letter, I ... two years to have a paint failure, less than two years for it to fail tells me that Home Works didn't do what they said that they were going to do. There's just no way, that if you do what we say, that in a year that paint falls off the house. Sporleder: Can I jump in there? I was going to ask a similar question. nat was the subsurface that they painted? Did they take it back down to the original wood and then refinish it, or did they paint on top of whatever siding was there. Maradik: I believe it went back down. Klucszinski: And what was the grade of primer? Zeiger: I think that there's a lot of questions, I'm not sure, I guess we can talk about that, for the petitioner, I don't know maybe it is, maybe it isn't germane to this. I would like to follow up on that. Sporleder: I think that what we're leading to on that is taking the aluminum siding off, so you don't know what you've got until you see what you've got. But if you're intending to take the aluminum siding off, why are you taking it off. Maradik: Because the NMN is rehabbing the entire property to sell, so that kind of goes back to what Catherine had said previously we'd gotten a C of A for all of those other items. So, we're just coming back now to put on the cement board. Sporleder: I guess that I concur with what both Tim and Todd were saying, we need to see what's there before we approve the cement board. I don't have any problem approving the cement board once we understand what we're dealing with and how it's going to be handled. Klusczinski: Is it fair to say, and certainly staff should chime in on this, that if we give them approval to take the aluminum siding off and the NNN would have every intention of removing the aluminum siding no matter what they were going to do, that that's probably something that we could all agree to, would they offer the house far sale with the aluminum siding on? Maradik: That would be something that would have to be considered. Klusczinski: Ok. For our purposes, at least whenever possible the original building materials should be restored. In order to evaluate what's under that aluminum, is there a way Shawn, within this C of A that we might be able to consider and rework it to at least : give them the option to at least remove the aluminum siding for an evaluation and then the HPC staff could go there and chime in on the condition of the clapboard? Peterson: I guess what you're asking is ifyou take it off, just take it off, and leave it to staff to approve, that is you would approve it if they find "x" then you could in a sense, with their consent, operate in that fashion. I think that there's a little more consensus in removing only the aluminum and not make any findings on what to do next. My question is which of those two are you leaning towards? The one where you approve subject to a staff determination, or do you want them to come back to you to make a final determination on what's going to happen after it's removed? Klusezinski: The way that it would play out in my mind is that f rst of all, and with respect for the petitioner, I'm not sure that we have enough information right now so that we can understand and interpret the other case example that they gave to lend itself to failure in this case. I think that there are a number of other things happening. I'm willing to put that on the back burner for the time being. All paint jobs won't fail, and I know that despite having one clear example for whatever reason it did. So what I would like to do is somehow craft a motion after public hearing of course, that we would give them the allowance to take off the aluminum siding and certainly staff could go over there and make an evaluation. If they did not want to paint at that point and preserve the original elements of the building, then they would have to come back and we would entertain whatever cladding they wanted at that point. I just don't think that we know enough now, we're trying to second guess too many things. Peterson: Right, exactly. I think that's what you're getting at. This application appears to be incomplete in the sense that there's not enough information on it to make the determination. That said, is the NNN willing to modify its application to provide for the removal of the aluminum siding only, because as it is, otherwise we have to table it and with their consent go beyond the 30 day requirement and consider it at the next meeting and hopefully at that time have more information. Klusczinski: And again, as Liz mentioned, it might be at the .board's pleasure that they want to leave the aluminum siding in tact and maybe not go ahead with the exploration so that's certainly an option for the AWN. Peterson: Are you willing to extend your, I guess, those are the options... Klusezinski: Are you empowered to negotiate for the NAW as far, as this C of A is concerned? Maradik: Well, I guess one of the question that we would have is if it were, if staff were to come out and evaluate it, would it have to come back to a Commission meeting to be approved? Klusczinski: I think that new siding, anything other than paint, would have to come back for approval. Maradik: Ok, just because I know that work has already started and this is a potential site for Arts Cafe this year so they want to make things happen as soon as possible. Zeiger: I have some comments when I get to the Commission side, it's probably not for conversation with the applicant. Sporleder: Relative to that, if we approve the other siding, I think that I would concur with what Todd was saying that I think that we'd need some details on how the trim and the siding were going to mesh, so that we have a clear understanding of haw that was to be done because at the moment, it's an unknown aspect. You don't know it either, none of us know how the siding meets trim, if there is any trim, and if there's no trim then what do we do. A small detail of that would be helpful in how that's going to be handled. I would feel personally more comfortable approving the other siding once I understood that we all knew how it was going to be done. Klusczinski: Sure. We've kind of rolled into Commission discussion on the topic, is there, or are there any other comments from... Zeiger: Yeah, I'll just throw it out there. I'm not opposed to the cement board siding at all, I don't like, personally, I'm not being disrespectful to your opinion, but this is an 0 opportunity to get this house to look more like it did originally and I would really hate to see the aluminum stay on it. I'm not opposed, I just want to know those details in the corners and part of me is saying if it's going to get resided, this cement board is going to outlast clapboards because of the material of what it is. We should just allow those clapboards to be taken off, so that those corners can match. Klusczinski: Which is a whole different C of A. Zeiger: That's what I'm suggesting, rather than re-clad this, I'm not comfortable with putting another layer of siding, be it cement board or cedar or whatever it is, over the existing siding over it. It just doesn't work visually, though 1'd be.. Klusczinski: And I would concur with that. Zeiger: I'd be more disposed to say leave the trim around the windows and the corner boards which I'm going to bet, that they're there, they may not be, I'd be really surprised, but Sporleder: You know the cornice is gone and the sill is gone. Zeiger: The crown and the projects. But if you're going to go to that extent and that cost of cement board then the clapboard needs to come off because you're just not going to make it work. We approve that when clapboard has got so many layers of paint and you've got lead issues and all that, so you take it off and re-side it in something that matches i.e. cement board Klusczinski: Is there every an alternate use for used clapboard? Zeiger: No, there's so much lead on them and paint, nail holes and splits and that. You can't get it off. Unless someone wanted to come behind and wanted to salvage it. I just want to leave that on the table from my standpoint, I'm not opposed to the cement board but 1 just want to be sure that it's installed properly so in 30 years someone doesn't go what the heck were they thinking when theyfind ind an extra layer there. Doesn't make sense to me. Sporleder: I have one more question. Is this house insulated? Maradik: I do not know. Klusczinski: Will it be? Maradik: If it's currently not, then it probably wouldn't be. Klusczinski: Do they gut the inner walls, do they put a vapor barrier? Maradik: I'm not positive about that. Klusczinski: Very good. Chair opens public hearing. Is there any member of the public willing to speak in support of the current petition? Hearing none. Any member willing to speak in opposition? Also hearing none. Chair closes public hearing. Any other comments? Any other discussion topics from the Commission body? Sporleder: What are we thinking of doing? Klusczinski: Well, we can entertain that at this venture. I think that I'm only comfortable at this point, and this is only me speaking, to permit the AWN ability to remove the original aluminum siding, and then make the determination at that point if they want to paint or if the original siding has to come down which is an additional expenditure for them, so maybe this is something that they want to consider too. Perhaps they'd want to re propose new siding in place of maybe the original clapboard or not maybe at some point propose the exact same thing. I'm just trying to propose some options, maybe for the purposes of exploration, maybe let you see what's underneath it and deal with it if it's the AWN's pleasure to do so. That would be my thoughts on this whole thing so that any of the variables that we don't have answers on this whole thing tonight, we could determine at some other point after we've been able to see it. Choitz: Are you talking about tabling it for now? Klusczinski: Well, giving them... making it halfgood. Allowing them to take off aluminum siding if they want to do so, but... Sporleder: Do they need to, uh submit... Klusczinski: Liz would need to answer right naw far the NNN. Sporleder: They need to amend their application if we want to go your route 10 Klusczinski:Right. And she would have to negotiate that, or if these things are bound and you're not at liberty to do that then our only option at that point would be to deny the whole thing, which does not even give them the ability to take off the siding. Those are the options. Sporleder: So we still don't know anything? Klusczinski: We still don't know anything, but we'll allow the AWN make their decision on whether or not they want to take the aluminum siding off and go further which they would have to do in any case. Peterson: As a pragmatic, can they took under the siding without a C of A? Do you need to pull some off in order to assess... Zeiger: There's no way to pull it without taking it'off. The way it's installed you've got to start at the top and work your way down. Klusczinski: To do a sample in an area? It wouldn't be a complete picture of what the structure would look like anyway, so I'm not sure that we would be comfortable with that because it would be a sample spot Sporleder: And we need to see what's happening with the trim. Zeiger: To expedite things, one of the recommendations to the staff was to give them, the Commission could approve the removal of the siding and then refer it to Standards and Maintenance for final action, with regard for paint versus siding so that we don't have to make them wait till next month. To me, I'm comfortable with that, we can take a look at it and then work out something with regard to the siding. Klusczinski: You would have to agree to an amendment on this to allow far the removal of the siding and then we would have, in an additional motion, charge the Standards and Maintenance Committee with that action. Zeiger: Between now and the next Commission meeting, so that keeps you moving forward in that way. Maradik: Ok. Peterson: And they would have to meet to make that action. Patrick: We could meet onsite. Peterson: But if you're going to make a determination then that's an actual meeting. Klusczinski: Yes it is. It would have to be publicly notified. Patrick: We could do that. Peterson: A committee can't take final action, so what you'll be doing is approving, with her consent, approving the application for the removal, and then amend the applications to reflect whatever the committee does. So your approval will be an approval of something, so whatever the committee is charged with they'll have that leverage to do one or the other, and you can't revoke that charge. If other people don't like what Standards and Maintenance decide with regards to wood or siding or whatever they decide, you will not be able to revoke that approval because this is, in a sense, your final action. Klusczinski: Can this Commission charge the Standards and Maintenance committee with that power with our by-laws. Zeiger: Mm-hmm. SporIeder: We've done it before. Peterson: It's just like with staff, you can give them guidance with 'here are your boundaries', that's why I said that when you approve it, it's a final approval. And it's within their boundaries to say what goes on underneath it, and you've listed those options- the cement, the painting or the same siding, those are the three things and now it's up to them to determine which of those based on upon evidence. They will have the opportunity to come to that committee meeting, basically the same thing as here, giving them guidance on what they can or cannot do. But your approval will be final tonight if that's what you do. If not, you can just wait till the next meeting to make that second determination. . 11 Klusczinski: Or I guess the alternative plan would be that we could charge Standards and Maintenance committee with an investigation on site and then we could have a special meeting convening if the Arts Cafe is a problem with the schedule or something so that we don't throw them off. Peterson: And that may be the most appropriate thing to do is to have a meeting with a quorum, a special meeting of the Commission if that's your desire. Klusczinski: That way Standards and Maintenance gets the footwork done and they're not... Peterson: And they can report their findings at the next meeting. Klusczinski: Well very good. So,... Peterson: Is that something that you're willing to amend? Amend your C of A to provide for that? Maradik: Yeah. Sporleder: And let the minutes reflect that she has agreed to the amendment. Peterson: To provide for the approval of the removal of aluminum siding and seek a subsequent action of whether or not to paint, aluminum siding, or if the cement structure is appropriate. Klusczinski: Ok, very good. Zeiger: So moved. Klusczinski: Excellent. Chase: Second. Klusczinski: Any additional discussion? Then we vote. All in favor? Sporleder: It needs to be designated what application that we're talking about here. Hostetler: 2007-0806B. Klusczinski: It helps Amy so that she doesn't have to rewind the tape so far. Herdman: Oh, don't worry about that now. Klusczinski: All in favor? (Ayes are heard) All opposed? (Silence) Motion carries. Zeiger: Note for staff, when you, I'd be interested, in attending the Standards and Maintenance Committee, when you're ready, I'd be happy to help out with that. Hostetler: Absolutely. Moved: Zeiger Second: Chase Amended C of A 2007-0806B Approved Unanimously Application Number: 2007-0806C Property Location: 730 Leland Property Owner: NNN Landmark or District Designation: Chapin Park LHD Rating: Non contributing STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCEIHISTORIC CONTEXT: Formerly 706 Leland, this Queen Anne house was built by 1894 probably for John Beyrer and his wife Flora. Mr. Beyrer was a contractor and gravel roofer for Ford Roofing Co and later established his own successful firm. John Beyrer and Sons Roofing Company roofed many of the Studebaker and Oliver plant buildings by 1922. APPLICATION ITEMS: 1. The existing windows have been previously replaced. The NNN will remove the existing windows and replace them with a Kolbe and Kolbe wood replacement window. 2. A number of additions to the structure will be removed in order to return the property back to its original footprints. This includes the removal of an addition of an enclosed stairway of the south side of the structure, the removal of the rear entrance, including addition and stairway on the north side of the structure and the removal of the addition to the wall on the west of the southeast porch, return to the original house wall. (See Attachment C.) After the additions are removed, the structure's roof line will be returned to the original roof line. 3. All existing roofing materials will be removed and a new 30 year architectural grade shingle will be applied. 4. The existing front porch will be removed including foundation. The porch will be replaced with a wood, tongue and grove flooring, bead board ceiling, 12 columns and spindles similar to existing neighborhood housing stock. 5. The existing aluminum siding will be removed. The siding will be replaced with a smooth cement fiber product to match lap, width and texture of the original siding. 6. The existing gutter will be removed and a new gutter system will be installed to match the renovations. STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES: II Existing Structures A. Building Materials Original exterior building materials in the district include brick, stucco, clapboard, wood shingles and brick or stone masonry. In some instances vinyl, composite and aluminum siding have been applied over the original material Required: Original exterior building materials shall be retained when possible. Deterioration of wood materials shall be presented though repair, cleaning and painting. The existing architectural detail around windows, porches, doors and eaves shall be retained or replaced by replicas of the same design when deteriorated beyond repair.... Recommended: Whenever possible, the original building materials should be restored. When maintaining or repairing original siding is not feasible aluminum, vinyl or composite siding may be used. When used over wood surfaces, the siding should be the same size and style as the original wood. Every effort should be made to retain original trim around windows, doors, cornices, gables, eaves and other architectural features.... B. Roofs and Roofing: Recommended: The original shape and materials of the roof should be restored. Roof covering which is deteriorated beyond repair should be replaced with new material that matches as closely as possible the original in composition, size, shape, color and texture. Gutters and downspouts are often a necessary adjunct in order to prevent deterioration of the structure; they should be maintained whenever possible or replaced with a style comparable and suitable to the architectural period. C. Windows and Doors: Required: Original windows and doors shall be retained including sashes, sills, shutters, decorative glass, pediments, hoods and hardware. When deteriorated beyond repair, they shall be replaced with units and trim resembling the original. Prohibited: Original doors, windows and " hardware shall not be discarded when they can be restored and reused in place. New windows and door openings, which would alter the scale and proportion of the building may not be introduced. Inappropriate new window and door features such as metal, vinyl or fiberglass awnings, hoods or aluminum insulating glass combinations that require removal of original windows and doors shall not be installed. STAFF RECOMMENDATION: #l. Staff does not recommend approval of this item as the windows appear to be original and only the storm windows are aluminum replacements. The original wood windows can be restored in place and new storm windows applied. #2. Staff recommends approval to the removal of the non original additions to the house footprint and the roof line. #3. Staff recommends approval of the complete tear off and re -roof. #4. Staff recommends approval of the porch restoration along the length and depth of the perceived original porch along the front of the house and its return to a style compatible to the age and style of the house and neighborhood. #5. Staff can not make a recommendation as it does not know the condition of the original material and can not make a determination at this time. Staff requests that it be allowed to work with NNN to make recommendations and return its recommendation to either the Standards and Maintenance Committee or the Commission. #6. Staff recommends approval of the replacement gutters and downspouts. Klusczinski: Is the petitioner present? Maradik: Yes. Klusczinski: State your name and address far the record please. Maradik: Liz Maradik, City resident planner, AWN 1007 Portage Avenue. There's two items that I'd like to briefly discuss. The first one, the siding the cement board, and I'll move along to the next one. The windows that we're wanting to replace there, the house will consist of approximately 25 windows after the reconfiguration of the structure. While all of the windows are of an old vintage, they do not all match and are not all original or in their original opening. Of these windows at least 15 are of contrasting 13 styles including a variety of different lock sets, casings, and thickness offrame. This leads the AWN to believe that although the windows are older, they are not the original windows. This would be a natural occurrence in a single family house that was divided into four apartment units by the owner. They moved walls, windows, stairs and created additional kitchens and bathrooms. The AWN requests an in-kind replacement of the Kolbe and Kolbe wood replacement windows. AWN recognizes the staff recommendation to rework the windows in place, however the AWN would like to encourage the Commission to consider the requested in-kind replacements due to the time that it takes and the financial burden to re-work the existing windows. For example, the AWN has an estimate for a house in the neighborhood in a comparable state of disrepair, for storms with removable glass and screen inserts for a total of $3320.00 far two windows with a minimum four month turn around time. The cost to rework the window highly outweighs the cost of a similar replacement window. In addition to the cost difference, the difference in the amount of time that it takes to re-work the window is not conducive to the AMproject timetable. The AWN has attempted to use HPC recommended contractors but they are not in the position to take on this size of project and maintain their existing business. The average project time table for the AWN is 90 days from start to finish, and re-working the windows would extend the project a minimum of another six months if a contractor would even be willing to take on the work. The Kolbe and Kolbe windows have been used in countless historic applications, such as the transformation of Camden station in Baltimore, and the NNNfeels that they would be an accurate historical in-kind replacement and a dramatic improvement to the structure. If there are any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Sporleder: Excuse me, Kolbe windows are insulated glass? Maradik: Yes, I believe they're double pane windows, yes. Sporleder: And the screens go where? Maradik: Yes, I'm sure that they have screens. Zeiger: They just fit in in front of the window. Klusczinski: What would be the cost barrier of having window restoration done on windows that it would be appropriate to do that on? I know that $1500 seems outrageous and I'm not sure that I agree with it that it should ever be paid and that it's very accurate way of assessing whether or not a window can be restored. We have a local school corporation that believes in elevating some prices on some things to justify new construction so we have that, but as far as I'm concerned what would be reasonable, and have you entertained any other estimates from any other contractors. Maradik: That one quote was received, and they did talk to other contractors to try to get quotes but it went back to the fact that the project was too large in scope and that they weren't able to do theproject because they wouldn't be able to carry on their current business and complete that project. So no other quotes were received to my knowledge. Klusczinski: Fair enough. It seems to me that there is some kind of a difference of opinion from the staff recommendation because the staff reports that the windows appear to be original and that only the storm windows are aluminum replacement. On the AWN side, some of the windows may be in the original locations, a lot of them have been changed or altered at later times. Maradik: Yeah, I believe that some of them aren't even in their original locations and things have probably been added as it was changed into a 4 unit apartment and that's what it is now before it's going to be turned back into a single family. Choitz: When you make these rather drastic changes in the stairwells and all that, how many old windows that may be in those old pieces are going to be discarded? Maradik: I don't know for sure, but I don't believe that any of the original windows are within those elements that might be extended. Patrick: Is there anyone else more knowledgeable about these houses than yourse . Maradik: Yes, I'm sure there is. 14 Patrick: And who might that be? Maradik: The property development specialist on staff or even Karen Ainsley the Executive Director. Patrick: Who's the property development specialist on staff? Maradik: His name is Jeff Stanifer (sp?). Patrick: Is there a reason why he's not here, tonight? Maradik: He could not make it tonight. Zeiger: Just curious do you know who put the bid in for the windows? Maradik: I believe his name is Steven... Zeiger: Schoberg? Maradik: Yes, I believe that's right. Zeiger: Just far the Commission's information 1 had another project, similar size bid, and he was about, when you factor in storm windows, pretty close. Klusczinski: Wow, outrageous. Any other discussion? Sporleder: Not that it's relevant, but Ijust spent the last two weeks restoring two double hung windows in my house and I probably should disqualify myself from further discussions because I have an absolutely hate for those windows. Klusczinski: So you're not an expert? Sporleder: I am an absolute expert in every detail of restoring double hung windows. Zeiger: I have a question about the Kolbe and Kolbe units are these the one with just the jamb liner, in other words they're just sash and they have a liner on the side? Are you familiar with the actual package? It would be helpful to have a clarification on that at least as follow up information, so if we do approve that, we'd at least know what we're talking about. I would not be in favor of a unit that's coming in with an entirely new frame which sometimes, they do. Kolbe makes a sash kit that you are essentially swapping out the sash but leaving the jambs and everything else in place, a pretty slick system in that regard, and wouldn't diminish the size of the opening and/or the window so from the exterior you don't notice anything different, the front stop stays the same- it's pretty slick. Marvin makes them, others make them, but since you're using Kolbe I just mentioned them. Klusczinski: Very good. Any other discussion? Sporleder: Are we going to try to treat this as the other one? Zeiger: Vith regard to the siding? Sporleder: Are we giving permission to do everything? Klusczinski: I'm not sure that we can do that until we get the public's input on it. Zeiger: Got to get the public in on it. Klusczinski: With that, I open public hearing, is there any member of the public wishing to speak in support of the petition? Hearing none, is there any member of the public wishing to speak in opposition? 1 close public hearing. I had a brilliant idea that we should try to mirror the other proposal as far. as the siding goes... Sporleder: Sounds good to me. Klusczinski: Does stafffeel the need to defend their opinion on the condition of the original windows as candidates for restoration? Maybe what we need to do is charge Standards and Maintenance with making an investigation on site for this one as well, and brings that determination here pending any replacement option. Hostetler: We were not aware.... Wayne went out and took pictures of them and it appeared that the storms were aluminum but that everything else appeared to be original from the photographs. I don't see any reason why we couldn't all go out and look at them. Doolittle: The inspection was done from the outside, and the second story windows I couldn't really see. I'm sure that there were some that were added, but they're all wood and all double hung. They had many layers of paint and that's what lead me to say that they're original windows, they're really alligatored and they need a lot of work to do that but my objection was that I think that they're original. Some others may have been 15 added, but at the time that they were added they're very similar to the ones that you've got elsewhere, In other words, they're all wood. I'm sure some were covered up, those we don't know about. I was going on an outside visual inspection of the down stairs. Klusczinski: Sure, ok. Sporleder: So to restore the existing original windows whatever ones they are since they have aluminum storm windows on them, l assume that there are no wood storms left. So even if they're restored, new wood storms/screen windows would have to be made, so that would be an additional expense. Zeiger: We all know that I'm not the window guy, but f can tell you from recent experience with Schoberg and others, we have a capacity issue with their ability to show up and do the job. If we had 12 contractors, it would be a differentjob, Schoberg bid a couple of things far us and said basically "I may be there in the spring" because he's just so busy. I'm just saying that I understand the frustration with capacity. I just share that with the Commission that we have a capacity issue and that we can teach home owners how to do it. I'm just concerned that at some point we need to address the capacity issue. Ninety days is pretty fast, but even so, it just takes more time. Klusczinski: Very good. I'll entertain a motion from anyone brave enough to offer one. Zeiger: Has the applicant agreed to modify the application similar to the other one? Maradik: Just to remove... Klusezinski: And there's a window condition- whether or not the Commission decides that the windows need to be evaluated in the same manner as the siding or not should be part of the motion. If it is, then we charge Standards and Maintenance with their findings. Zeiger:171 make the motion to approve 2007-0806C as amended with regard to siding aspect so long as the Kolbe and Kolbe windows are the sash kit and not another type window that would reduce the size of the opening itself. Sporleder: I'll second the motion. Peterson: For the record, she has to agree to that as well. Klusczinski: We're not telling you that it has to be Kolbe and Kolbe... Peterson: Let the record show that she amended to allow consistent with your motion. Klusczinski: There's a motion on thejloor, do we have a second? Sporleder: I did. Klusczinski: Oh, I'm sorry Joann. Any more discussion? All in favor? (Ayes are heard) Opposed? (Silence) B. LANDMARKS — None. H. REGULAR BUSINESS The Chair entertained a motion to suspend the published agenda to allow for a scheduled presentation on behalf of the Thermolite Company of South Bend. Moved: Patrick Second: Patrick Approved Unanimously Mr. Ken Hanson and Mr. Eric Kus of Thermolite made a presentation to the Commission at the invitation of the Chair. Thermolite is a locally made window product that may represent a good alternative in preservation as their product is an thin profile, interior storm that can preserve the outward appearance of a structure while providing the home owner with greater energy efficiency. A. APPROVAL OF AMENDED MINUTES Moved: Hostetler B. TREASURER'S REPORT Accepted into record as presented. C. STAFF REPORTS 1. Correspondence July Ib, 2007 Second: Patrick Approved Unanimously 16 None. 2. Director — Catherine Hostetler Distributed to Commission. 3. Assistant Director — Amy Herdman Distributed to Commission. 4. -Legal Counsel — Shawn Peterson Counsel presented the contract agreement between the City of South Bend and the HPC in the amount of $25,000. A motion to accept the contract passed unanimously, and was signed by President Klusczinski. Moved: Zeiger Second: Chase Approved Unanimously D. COMMITTEE REPORTS . 1. President's Report — Tim Klusczinski 7/24/07 Sent HPC response to South Bend Tribune "Our Opinion" editorial "Preservation a matter of time" (07/20/07). Submission was originally entitled: Marquette: Enduring the PAST and PRESS-ent". Tribune later changed this to "Commission has acted appropriately to save Marquette" when published as "Michiana Point of View" feature (08/03/07). Most other article content remained unaffected. 7/29/07 City Celebration: Cabin Days I visited Leeper Park East to scope out the events at the Navarre Cabin and took event pictures for the next "Commission Courier." Mr. Navarre was not at home when I stopped in. Instead, I did find Mr. Alexis Coquillard - his financial backer. Mr. Coquillard spoke about the local fur - trapping industry, the river, and some of the environmental challenges. He was also in favor of a formal name for the area... something like "Southhold?" Seems like a fine idea to me. Maybe it'll catch on... Attendees, especially the children seemed to be having a GREAT time, despite the HOT and sunny climate. The campfire seemed almost, unnecessary. Activities included a show -n -tell on period tools, candle making, and interaction with the players dressed in period attire. I wish to thank the Center for History and the City of South Bend for their partnership, dedication and effort in promoting our local history. 8/3/07 12:53PM: Observed construction project at 318 W. Navarre Street (Chapin Park) where basement windows had been removed from openings and damaged beyond repair. A "Bobcat" was parked in the back yard. I spoke to Mike Balmer and Mike Brzezinski who were performing the work. No documentation was displayed in the windows, so I asked the men to show me the permits for the work. They said "we don't know anything about that" and "that would be Richard. " When I inquired further, they admitted that Richard Guntle of Home Service was the General Contractor. Bruno owned the Bobcat equipment and was contracted by Richard. Mr. Balmer called Richard on his cell phone to inform him that "someone from the city was asking about permits." Mr. Balmer relayed that Richard was in the process of getting one. I asked both men if they were employees of Richard, they said "no." They said they were doing the work for "Collier's Glass Block." I inquired if they were employees of "Collier's Glass Block," they said "no." I suggested that that would make them "subs?" They agreed. I asked for their company name. They couldn't offer one and stated that they were doing the work "independently." I asked if they were licensed, bonded and insured. Mike Brzezinski said "no." Mike Balmer interrupted and said "yeah." Although they were unable to substantiate their status, at that time. I informed the men that they were performing work in the Chapin Park Local Historic District. That the Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend and St. Joseph County must approve work that changes exterior features. I also mentioned that" if' the project had not been reported to the HPC, it "would be" a violation of the ordinance. I told the men that I am compelled to report this activity to the HPC. The Building Department would also learn about it. I admitted 17 that I could not tell them how to proceed (full open-air access to the basement level, destroyed original windows and new glass -block units ready for installation), but it would be in their best interest to obtain the necessary permits right away. I provided them with my card and indicated the HPC staff address and telephone number. 8/13/07 Attended Marquette Primary Center Open House to hear Dr. Zimmerman, Superintendent SBCSC address the congregation on the building's status with regard to the Local Landmark designation procedure or consequences from a successful public bond issue remonstrance process. Dr. Zimmerman apologized for the hot summer temperatures in the auditorium and promised that water would be available for the children during this time, now that they were in session. He went on to advise the public that both landmarking and the remonstrance would ultimately prevent planned improvements for the building — improvements realized from a new facility. And that the current bond issue ONLY supported a new Marquette facility — NOT a rehabbed building. Since Local Landmark status would also prevent demolition of the current structure it would most likely halt the plan. It was inferred that there would be no other improvements suggested, if the current construction plan was derailed. It spoke directly against Landmark protection. Finally, Dr. Zimmerman outlined the public process and solicited the audience' support to achieve its goals. III. OLD BUSINESS VP Patrick reported that her previous contact with which she was exploring HPC branded coffee has left the area to attend school. VP Patrick will be pursuing other vendors. IV. NEW BUSINESS V. HEARING OF VISITORS Don Sporleder reminded all in attendance that the Highland Games/Celtic Fest would be held September 8`". Mr. Sporleder also reminded the HPC of the imminent destruction of the University Club on the ND campus. The last day of service for members is September 22, during Michigan State weekend. ADJOURNMENT 9:07 pm Moved: Hostetler Second: Patrick Attest: Approved: Unanimously Todd Zeiger, Date Secretary, Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend & St. Joseph County DIRECTOR'S REPORT SEPTEMBER 2007 August 20 Attended SBCSC Board of Trustees meeting August 23 Attended the Botanical Society Executive Session August 24 Toured LaPorte County Court House August 27 Attended a Public Hearing on St. Joseph County Housing Consortium Amendment to the 2005 & 2007 Housing and Community Development Action Plan. August 28 Met with Krupali Uplekar concerning Historic Preservation class at ND August 29 Attended Curt Culbertson's lecture on Kessler and then dinner August 30 Presentation on History of St. Paul's Memorial Methodist Church to ND's Preservation class. Met with NNN concerning work proposed on 730 Leland and 508 Lindsey. September 4 Met with President Rouse concerning the landmarking of Marquette School. Attending County Commissioner's meeting for approval of City Grant funds. Attended SBCSC Board of Trustees meeting. September 6 Sold Candy gave away calendars and took names for prints of the Conservatories at Art Beat between 5 and 9pm. September 7 Spoke against the acquisition and demolition of the `Fat Daddy's" block at the Redevelopment Commission meeting. September 10 Attended County Department Head Budget meeting September 11 Attended County Commissioner meeting concerning City grant to HPC Special Meeting of HPC/NNN at 5:15 County Council Budget meeting at 7:00 September 14 Staff meeting concerning grant projects, City Celebration and Work Shops for the balance of this year and projects for 2009 September 13 Gathered materials for grant application FBO Conservatories and Greenhouses. Next meeting on September18. Assistant Director's Report HPC Meeting — 09-17-2007 ■ Conferred with Paul Phelps regarding St. Paul's Memorial Methodist Church windows upon his return visit to SB. Will be introducing Paul to Krupali and her class via email. ■ Created, edited and mailed Fall newsletter. ■ Issued Six at Risks List. ■ Prepared Six at Risks media alert, was interviewed by M. Fosmoe and WSBT for stories on Fat Daddy's/Six at Risky. ■ Visited Glorious George nominees, photographed lawns, and deliberated on the winners. ■ Created and mailed out 1't annual Glorious George awards. ■ Met with and toured South Bend Parkas with Kurt Culbertson of Aspen. Later that evening, hosted our City Celebration event at the library. Approximately 25-30 in attendance. ■ Conducted visual inspection of Fat Daddy's block:, and introduced myself to business owner, Elaine Gendel. ■ Finalized plans for David Duvall's presentation on 9/26. ■ Provided photo/information to Indiana Preservationist magazine for statement on Marquette. ■ Attended Redevelopment Commission Meeting. ■ Attended Monroe Parks Neighborhood meeting. ■ Spent many hours editing City Survey. ■ Attended Special Meeting regarding NNN C of A applications. ■ Conferred with DAR regarding Schuyler Colfax monument at City Cemetery. ■ Identified consultants for assistance with City Cemetery conservation, requested permission to apply for Cornelius O'Brien grant, and subsequently applied to bring Chicora Foundation to SB for on-site assessment and consultation regarding cemetery conservation. ■ Received invitation to volunteer at National Trust conference in St. Paul MN. ■ Continued plans and arrangements for Festival of Flight. ■ Continued work on W. Washington Walking Tour script/brochure and arrangements. ■ Completed and submitted paperwork at conclusion of Kurt Culbertson's Workshop Wednesday. ■ Mailed thank you notes. ■ Volunteered to assist with Lincoln Highway survey project. Instruction begins 9/24 w/ HLFI. ■ Completed scholarship request on behalf of Steve Nemeth of the Parks Dept to attend cemetery workshop in April in Austin, TX. MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND & SAINT JOSEPH COUNTY September 17, 2007 13`h Floor Conference Room County — City Building, South Bend, Indiana Members Present: Todd Zeiger; Joann Sporleder, Timothy Klusczinski, Martha Choitz, Jerry Ujdak, Lynn Patrick, Linda Riley Members Absent: Mary Jane Chase Staff Present: Catherine Hostetler, Amy Herdman, Shawn Peterson, Wayne Doolittle Also Present: John and Linda Brady, Alan DeFrees, Georges Enderle, Errik Juszczyk, Don Sporleder CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL: President Tim Klusczinski called to order at 7:00 pm L PUBLIC HEARING - *Note: C of A application number 2007-0716/0907, scheduled to be heard at this meeting, was withdrawn by the petitioner via telephone call. A motion was heard to amend the order of C of A applications posted on the published agenda. Moved: Zeiger Second: Sporleder Approved Unanimously Application Number: COA #2007-0906 Property Location: 1715 E. Wayne Street Property Owner: Linda and John Brady Landmark or District Designation: East Wayne Street LHD Rating: Contributing STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: Whitcomb and Keller built this H.R. Stapp designed Tudor Revival house in 1929. John T. and Jean Voedisch were the first owners. Mr. Voedisch was an assistant football coach for Notre Dame under Knute Rockne. APPLICATION ITEMS: Gerard Homes Inc. is proposing to add a 16'x13'-6" screen porch to the rear of the home. They will be pouring footings and a concrete slab. Building materials will be all cedar; black aluminum screen will then be added with cedar trim. Roof will be %" OSB plywood with architectural shingles, aluminum fascia and soffit to match existing roof. The Exterior siding will be 1"x8" horizontal cedar. Interior will have 3' knee walls on three sides with an 8'x8'-6' French door leading into existing additions. Interior walls and ceiling will have 1"x8" horizontal T&G cedar. Exterior siding will be painted first with a primer and then brown to match existing house color. All landscaping, sidewalks, fences will be restored to their original appearance. EAST WAYNE STREET STANDARDS: III. New Construction: A. Height and Proportion: Required:... Additions to existing building shall be related in height and proportion to the existing structure. B. Building Materials: Required: Exterior materials used on a new structure shall be compatible in scale, texture and color with adjacent structures. Materials used on an addition to an existing structure shall relate to the existing or original materials of that structure. As much of the original structure as possible shall be retained so that the addition could be removed without damage to the basic structure and appearance of the building. RECOMMENDATION: Staff recommends approval. The porch will be in scale and proportion to the rest of the house and will match the materials of the house. It will be in the rear of the home and attached to a non original addition to the house and will not obscure any original features. Klusczinski: Thank you Catherine, are the petitioners here? Would you like to make a presentation please, and we ask that you situate yourself near one of the mics. It's entirely optional, but... Brady: Ok, I didn't really have much planned to say. Klusczinski: Just please state your name and address for the record please.. Brady: John Brady, 1715 E. Wayne Street. I grew up a few doors down at 1615 E. Wayne, and we had a screened porch there when I was growing up. So, one of the things that we wanted to do there when we moved into the home in 1990 was to add the screened in porch. It seems that our children took all our money, but the mosquitoes finally have driven us to do this. I sell houses in the neighborhood so I'm very into the historic appeal of the neighborhood myself, so I think that we'll do a good job on it and hope that you'll approve it. Klusczinski: Thank you. Before you leave, are there any Commissioners with questions for either the staff or petitioner? Sporleder: Yes. Could you show with these pictures where this screened in porch is going. I don't quite follow what is... Brady: It is kind of hard to tell here, you know this picture might be abetter choice. It'll come, this is the addition that someone built before we moved in, and it will come from this direction like this, right in this area here. Sporleder: Is this the front of the house, is that correct? Brady: Yes. Sporleder: Ok, that's front and this is what? Back? Brady: This may show you a little bit better. Sporleder: Ok, so the screed in porch is going to go where? Brady: The screened in porch is going to start right where the existing roof line is and come out to here. Sporleder: So the roof line is going to be... it's going to cover this roof? Brady: Yes, that's correct, with the same shingles. Sporleder: And that will come out to where? Brady: Just slightly past this right here. Sporleder: Just past this area? Brady: Correct. And it will be the same.... Sporleder: One slopped roof. Brady: That's correct, a shed roof. Sporleder: That wasn't very clear in what was printed. Klusczinski: Joann, for the benefit of the rest of us on this end of the table could you illustrate that on this diagram? Brady: It's going to follow this line right here, and come down like that. Sporleder: It's nothing to follow this. Actually, but the color matches a little better. He's intending to start the roof right under the window and come all the way out to... Brady: It's about 16 ft, or about 4 ft past... Sporleder: So that he has the head room on this end. Brady: It will be a cathedral roof inside. Sporleder: But the outside roof is a shed roof. Flashing tied into the roof with copper. Ujdak: What are you going to do in the wintertime? I had a situation like that and we put in storm windows and it was great. Klusczinski: Any other questions for the petitioner before we move forward? Sporleder: Thank you very much. Klusczinski: Chair recognizes Commissioners for discussion before we move to public hearing. Any discussion? Hearing none, we move to public hearing. Is there anyone in the public wishing to speak in support of the current petition, you may do so. Hearing none, anyone wishing to 2 speak in opposition to the current petition may do so. Also hearing none, I close public hearing. Any additional discussion? Chair will entertain a motion. Riley: I move that we approve C ofA 2007-0906. Patrick: I second. Musczinski: Motion is made and seconded. Any additional discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? (Ayes) Opposed? (Silence) Motion carries unanimously. Thank you. Moved: Riley Second: Patrick Approved Unanimously Application Number: COA #2007-0904 Property Location: 101 S. Lafayette/302 W. Washington Property Owner: Ambassadors For Christ Landmark or District Designation: Local Landmark/ Downtown NR District Rating:. Significant STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: The Richardsonian Romanesque Church was constructed by_Christopher Fassnacht in 1888 for the First Presbyterian Congregation. Mr. Fassnacht also constructed the Studebaker's Tippecanoe mansion. The First Presbyterian Church was organized in 1834 under the direction of Horatio Chapin. The building was sold in 1952 to the People's Church of South Bend. The Ambassadors for Christ have been the owners since 2001. APPLICATION ITEMS: Roofs are an integral part of any building and at 302 W. Washington our roof is severe need of major repairs. At this time, however, we are considering only a couple of smaller areas where the need is greatest for repair. Repairs of the "same kind" are out of our financial reach. Therefore, what we propose is a repair that we can accomplish. This would consist of the following materials as needed: Complete removal of old material (slate), new wood only as needed (3/4" be plywood), 31/4" galvanized nails, new 15 weight base paper, 11/2" button nails, solid roll galvanized flashings 12" wide (to be totally covered), cold cement paste to be used around areas such as chimneys and vent stacks in combination with the fiber reinforcement (for long term strength, fiber reinforcement, architectural shingles (estate gray) and 11/2" electro -galvanized shingle nails. Area to be repaired is above the pastor's office which is located on the parking lot side of building directly in front of side drive. A semi -circular area above the window with air conditioner in it. GROUP B LANDMARK STANDARDS: C. RENOVATIONS AND ADDITIONS 2. Material— Additions and improvements involving any new material in the landmark should be of the same material as the original. It should be the same size and texture. An Alternative material maybe allowed if it duplicates the original. RECOMMENDATION: Staff does not recommend approval of this project with substitute material. The work will be performed by volunteers with no experience in dealing with a slate roof. There is a possibility that the slates could be removed carefully, the decking repaired with new materials- underlayment felt or paper- and the slates reinstalled. It is estimated by the Preservation Specialist on staff that if the slates are removed carefully they may be able to reuse most of them and only have to buy a minimum of new Vermont slate or artificial slate for fill in. Artificial slate is $300 or less per square foot and slate is $425-$475 delivered. Klusczinski: Would you care to make a presentation sir? Jaszcyk: Yes, sir. Klusczinski: Come up to the microphones please. Please state your name and address for the record. Juszcyk: My name is Errik Juszcyk and I live at 7859 S. Ashland in Chicago, IL. Sporleder: Can you spell your last name for us? Juszczyk: J -U -S -Z -C -Z -Y -K. K' Hostetler: It's on the application. Klusczinski: Continue, please. Juszczyk: I'm a member of Ambassadors for Christ Church in Chicago and I'm a deacon of the Church, I'm an adult Sunday School teacher, and I'm also head of the construction department there and a 3.d year engineering student. When we bought the building- in 2001, it was in need of roof repairs. At that time, we found a gentleman that was comfortable with slate roof repairs, and over the next couple of years we paid him several thousand dollars and we trucked in slate that we found and he repaired with copper clips but never really solved the problem. We kept having different areas of problems. He'd repair over here, then we'd have problems over there. At the end of the time, he finally said that he can't do anymore repairs to the roof because it needs to be replaced. He said, I work alone, I'm one man, and it's too big of a job for me. He gave us some companies to call for estimates, and for an original slate roof to be put back, they were talking around a quarter million (dollars). And that blew us away, so... Klusczinski: Can you specify if the quarter of a million was for the patched areas that were defective, or...? Juszczyk: That was for a complete roof because no company would repair it. Everyone that we brought out said that they could do repairs but could not give us any kind ofguarantee as to whether this would solve the problem. The only way to guarantee it is to do the whole roof Klusczinski: That just sounds to the like they're trying to lobby for the entire job. Juszczyk: It wasn't just one company, it was other companies. Klusczinski: I just want to make one clarification. You live in Chicago, but you're a deacon stationed in this church here? Juszczyk: We're both Ambassadors for Christ. Chicago is the mother church, but we have other churches too. Klusczinski: Did you come in specifically for this presentation here tonight? Or are you normally here? Juszczyk: I came in specifically for this presentation here. Klusczinski: Any other questions for the petitioner or staff? Ujdak: You talk about leaks, do they appear just in one particular area or are you experiencing leaks all over the building? Juszczyk: We are experiencing leaks all over the building, but the area that this about is an area a little bit smaller than this room, and we literally cover the entire area with buckets and garbage cans collecting water. Ujdak: The rest of the edifice is relatively free of leaks? Relatively? Juszczyk: Yeah, we have some leaks here and there, but none as bad as that. It's the worst, and it's not even something that you can see from the street on Washington, it's on the back parking lot. Riley: Have you considered applying for grants to help you do the work? Juszczyk: There's nothing that we would like better than to restore it to the original slate and the original glory of the building, but we ...we're looking into it, but as of yet we haven't found anyone that would supply us with grants or funding. Riley: I've seen a slate roof across the street from us, and I don't know if they haven't been able to talk to everybody that could do that kind of work. Juszczyk: What would happen is that when the man came there, when he'd put the ladder on the slate to get to the different areas when he'd put his ladder down, the slate would just start crumbling. Slate just kept falling off and he said, this is just a never ending battle and I can't do it anymore. Klusczinski: That's with a ladder, there may be other ways of approaching it. With a boom, or scaffolding.. That's just another possibility. Juszczyk: With the way that pitch is, you can build scaffolding up but how do you get over? Klusczinski: To clarify also Catherine, you indicated also that it would be acceptable to use an artificial slate fill in product. Do you have any quotes, or have you explored that option? Juszczyk: I know from the square footage that it would be into the thousands to do that... 4 Klusczinski: But you don't have any quotes from contractors to do that? Patching or replacement? Juszczyk: Actually, I can't find anyone that will patch, period. . Musczinski: Ok. Patrick: I have a question. Are the people that did quote, are they all from the Chicago land area? Or local? Juszczyk: Local, and from Elkhart, I believe. Patrick: Do you know who the locals were? Juszczyk: I know that it was several years ago, ma'am. We can probably dig up the paperwork somewhere, but the quarter million was just totally out of our range. Patrick: I know, Errik, it's not the quarter of million for me. It's the lack of documentation on what somebody said—and if it was several years ago, people come and go out of the business, they're constantly developing new products and procedures. If this has been held in abeyance for that long, I'm wondering why you don't seek, also we're in a new financial thing, homebuilding is slowing down ... people that might have been tied up before might be amenable to doing it now. Seven years is a long time. It might be worth your while, I'm trying to help you and save you money, it might be worth it just to call some people in and tell them what you want. The other thing that concerns me is that the people are going to do the work, the parishioners? Volunteers? Juszczyk: I would be leading it, I'm not a roofer, but I have a roofer in Chicago and a roofer in Elkhart that would work under me. Patrick: And they work on slate roofs? Juszczyk: They work on shingle roofs. I'm asking to remove the slate and to put the shingles on that small area. Not the entire roof, you can't even see itfrom Washington and Lafayette, just that small area to try to preserve the building until we can get to the status to where we can bring it back to the original state. Klusczinski: But then the cost is much higher because you'd have to bring in all new materials instead of salvaging the material that's in place right now. Juszczyk: The material that's there now is no good, it's brittle. When you go up there, it just crumbles in your hand. Zeiger: I'm just curious, and you may not know, but do you know the date that the slate that it was put on? Juszczyk: I don't know, I'd imagine when they built it. Zeiger: Maybe, maybe not. Juszczyk: I know that they're not galvanized nails a lot of the problem is that the nails have just rusted through. Zeiger: The problem with the roof is not the slate, the problem with the roof is the nails and the underlayment. Juszczyk: There is no underlayment. Zeiger: There's something. They're not just hanging out in space. Juszczyk: They're shingles on top of wood. When the shingle falls out, you see wood. Zeiger: Right, that's underlayment. I understand. The problem with this roof is that the nails have rusted and that's what's dropping the slates. The tarpaper, to use a current term, has deteriorated, and there's just nothing shielding that water anymore. Slate does get brittle, but I just wonder if the majority of your water problem isn't coming in right around the flashing in this area here around your chimney. This is the edge of where that roof comes back in, that's the area that you're talking about, correct? Juszczyk: Yes, it goes like this, and then it goes like that on the other side. Zeiger: It could be the flashings and the gutters. Juszczyk: It's a combination of everything. Everything is bad. Zeiger: It's reached the end of its useful life unfortunately. I noticed on this picture, on this back corner, it has the asphalt on this. Was this approved by the C omission? Hostetler: No. Zeiger: This work was done without a C of A. Juszczyk: At that time I wasn't aware that we needed that. 5 Zeiger: Ok, I just wanted to know where that came from And this is what you're proposing to do on this piece? Juszczyk: Yes. Zeiger: In our packet, it shows this picture and it shows that. Sporleder: What is that? Zeiger: That's architectural, that's what he's proposing to put on this little roof/dormer area. That's all the questions that I have, thank you. Choitz: What kind of material is that? Zeiger: Fiberglass asphalt. Juszczyk: It's actually the best asphalt shingle on the market. Zeiger: It's a dimensional shingle, it also shows up in this picture. Juszczyk: In comparison, that goes for about $45.00 per square feet as opposed to $400. Sporleder: What is this? Riley: Could you explain this brown area here? Is there slate missing from there? Here and here? Juszczyk: That's some type of rubber material that was existing when I bought it. Riley: So, it's missing? There should be slate there? Juszczyk: That's the way that it was when we bought the building. Riley: And is this slate? Juszczyk: In the bell tower? Yes, it is. Sporleder: A roof that steep shouldn't be leaking. Zeiger: That's why I think that it's the flashing and the gutters. Choitz: How long has it been leaking like this? Juszczyk: It's been leaking ever since we bought the building. Choitz: Are you working on it, or just letting it get worse all the time? Juszczyk: That's what I explained ma'am, that we had a slate contractor that was repairing the roof until he said that he couldn't anymore. As it's getting worse in these certain areas, we're trying to do our best in these certain areas, at least for this year and hopefully something will come through for us and we'll be able to tackle the whole project next summer. Klusczinski: Ok, as long as there aren't any other questions for the petitioner, I'll open the discussion for the Commissioners. Anyone want to... ? Zeiger: Wayne had something, so I'll wait. Doolittle: One of the major difficulties when dealing with slate, is finding a contractor that's competent enough to do it. Lots of contractors say that they can, but they don't know how to do it. A good slate roof should last between 200-300 years, the failing problems is the wood decking, if that fails, and supposedly, you don't need any felt there at all, it's put there basically to keep the water out until you get the slate on. So being able to remove it, using the right tools, to remove the existing nails and putting them back up, it's just how it's been treated. Ifpeople walk on it, that's a real problem. They need to use a ladder. So, it's finding the right people that know how to do it. Sporleder: The Commission was responsible for the slate re -reroofing of the fire station on Niles Avenue, and it was a local person that re -did the slate. Our files should show... Doolittle: It was probably Midland Engineering. Sporleder: No, it was... Klusczinski: Was it Slatile? Sporleder: No, the contractor had a nice German name. Zeiger: Hubert Gochel. (sp?) H. G. Roofing. Sporleder: That's who it was. The Commission was quite satisfied and they were too and that's where a neighborhood center was so it was within their means with a grant to do it. Donald and I were responsible for the Niles City Hall at one time, and those slates, they had serious problems, and we secured a firm out of Detroit who gave us a very good estimate for repairing, as you say, a lot of the nails had failed, the slate eats the nails basically and they fall out. They did remove quite a few, they didn't need to replace anything. It was the City Hall and it was huge. 0 Doolittle: I think that a number of the people have passed away that were good at that. That's the difficulty. Sporleder: Slatile still exists, I don't know who all anymore. Zeiger: There's four firms in town, you've got HG Roofing, Slatile, JC Lauber, and I believe Midland would probably still look at it. All of them would be able to look at this little space and give a bid that's specifically that area instead of the whole roof if you're just looking to isolate that spot from the chimney out over the pastor's study, that could be isolated as one job. I doubt though that it's never going to be cheaper than free. Labor is nothing, and that's good for you because you have a volunteer ethic in your church and that's excellent but no matter what that bid is, it's never going to match up. This roof has got a major problem and it's the nails. It's dropping shingles and it has been for years. Sporleder: But the round part of this doesn't look like it's in... is this the part that you were talking about? This plus this? Am I reading this picture correctly? Juszczyk: And these crowns, if you look closely at them, there's holes eaten through them. Sporleder: That may be where a major part ofyour problem is. But the problem of getting, I think Todd you could maybe say something about this too, getting this nice curve thing with asphalt shingles. Juszczyk: Oh yes, it would be super easy. A lot easier than with slate, slate doesn't bend. Sporleder: Slate doesn't bend, but they're in smaller units that you can work with. Hostetler: We've had problems with architectural shingles on curves. Zeiger: You can look at, and this is just anecdotal, look at the Remedy and our turret has that. It took our roofer whole days to wrap that turret. We didn't have slate, it was already in asphalt, but it about drove her nuts. She had to cut every shingle down to slate size and then wrap it. As you wrap it around that long rectangle, it flips up. It's not as straightforward as what you've replaced on this flat edge here, it comes up, and it doesn't lay flat. You have to cut each one. Juszczyk: That's not a problem. Labor is not a problem. Money is a problem And it's something that we do... we want to get the slate back on there, but it's out of reach and the building is getting destroyed on the inside. Klusczinski: I'm going to move ahead into the public hearing so that we can close this issue. Any member of the public wishing to speak in support of the petition? Hearing none. Any member of the public wishing to speak in opposition? Also hearing none, the public hearing is closed. Any final comments that you'd like to say? Juszczyk: No sir. Klusczinski: Any further discussion? Riley: I think that this is such a significant building and it's so prominent, I would like to see them get more quotes and come back to its if they want to do it in the artificial slate, I'd like to see samples of it. Herdman: We have samples in the office. Riley: Well, I'd like to see what they want to use. Patrick: I want to ask if down the road if you end up going with the different material, would it be possible to save that slate? Klusczinski: I'll bet if they thought that was the outcome that they'd be less meticulous with attempts to salvage the roof. Choitz: One thing I'd like to put into this. This is about the time that Clem Studebaker was finishing Tippecanoe Place. The roof may not be the same kind, but have you ever looked in the basement of your building? If there's a sub basement under the basement, at Tippecanoe Place, we found that the floors down there were lined with extra the from Ireland where all that slate had come from. He had new enough down there to put a new roof on. It was just like new, it had been down there with good drainage, and although there was water around it when we found it, but it hadn't hurt the tile. I don't know how familiar you are with the basement and whatever they could have built under that, but sub basements were very popular. Clem also had a bowling alley down there in the second one down, and that was lined with the different kinds of trim that he had stored. So, I don't know, but you might look. We were able to find that same place in 7 Ireland and order it when we knew that we didn't have enough. They sent it over here, and it matched just fine, and it wasn't an expensive preposition. Sporleder: I belong to the Presbyterian Church, as it turns out, and they have been fairly meticulous in keeping their drawings, so it's fairly possible that the original drawings for this building are in our vault. And if that's of any help to anybody, I'd be more than happy to dig those out if that's any help to anybody. It's a dungeon down there and not very pleasant, but that might be helpful. I'd like to pickup on what Linda said and if we could get somebody locally, not necessarily a few more estimates, but I'd like to get Slatile or someplace that Todd might recommend to see if we could just get a good inspection of your roof and see if we can idents the areas of concern, places where the water problems are usually the most severe and also to get an assessment of the quality of the slates that exist. They really do disintegrate and there isn't much worth to trying to save them. Klusczinski: I have a brief question for Counsel. For the purposes of this discussion, I'm not sure that it's possible to sustain this C ofA with the amendments that have been offered, either by Linda with the use of artificial slate, which what you're proposing which is to have contractors from the area come in and take a lookfor an assessment. Sporleder: To give us an assessment of what the problems are so that we can help assist him to work out what's best for everyone. Peterson: You really would only have two options. One, you're required to take action on the C ofA within 60 days so you either have to postpone or table with the consent of the applicant to conduct further investigations of the issues that were raised. Or, take action upon the C ofA either today or at a subsequent meeting. If you choose to deny it, you'd each have to state your reason why you choose to deny it. When you consider a C ofA, just as a reminder, there are three factors, are the improvements appropriate in light of the goals of the Commission, would the improvement bear a detriment to the public if it is allowed if it's not appropriate, and three, what is the potential hardship to the applicant. So you weigh those three factors when you choose whether to approve or deny an application. Again, a reminder, if you do choose to deny, you must state your opinion of why you're denying it. You must say those types of issues inyour rationale for your vote. Klusczinski: Well, with that advice, the Chair will entertain a motion to table C ofA 2007-0904, and remand the further investigation to staff, or Committee pending the information. Riley: Why can't the petitioner get the estimates? Klusczinski: Martha has moved that the C ofA be tabled. Sporleder: I'll second it, if it hasn't been seconded. Klusczinski: It hasn't, so thank you. Peterson: Before a vote, we need to ask the applicant if he'd be willing to extend the deadline of the application to allow further fact finding for you to be able to get estimates and all that? Would you be willing to allow an extension of the deadline, or do you wish for the Commission to take final action within 30 days? Juszczyk: At this time, it goes back to the same scenario. We do not have the money, so even if we had estimates for $2000 we don't have it. We barely have enough money to do what we want to do to save the building and that's where we're at. If you want to delay it, I'm fine with that, but it's just damaging the building more. Peterson: Just for clarification, just so you understand, when you submit an application, you have the right to request that they take action within 60 days of your request. Zeiger: Sixty days from date of application. Peterson: Yes, from date of application. Zeiger: So we've got until November. Peterson: They could table it to table it. In a sense, the timing is such that if you provide additional information that is persuasive they can take further action. If you're saying that you're not going to get additional information, then the 60 days will come up and they will take action whether approval or denial they're allowed to have that window. But if you want to extend it to get more information, then you should let us know at this time that you want us to allow the time to gather information. Do you want time to gather information or do you choose not to allow for that scenario and want them to take action as quickly as possible? Juszczyk: I do not need anymore time. Peterson: Ok. Sporleder: I would still like to suggest that even if he doesn't need more time with what to do I think that the Commission can be of some assistance in finding out the information. As I said, I might be able to find the drawings and that might be helpful in ascertaining what the structure is, where the valleys are, what's actually under there, etc. I really would like to pick up on what Linda said. And, if we have to hire someone to come in and look at it, I think that we should be prepared to do that. In addition, I think that Catherine and staff possibly could help find a grant that might... they have really taken on a courageous thing taking on that church. It's one of the most historic churches left in South Bend and it wasn't in good shape when they got it, and it was in danger of being torn down when they got it. Klusczinski: Joann, and for the purposes of the motion on the table, I just want to make a clarification that although those are great recommendations they're not part of the original motion that's been made and seconded. Sporleder: I'm just encouraging us to take the time that we need to find out. Klusczinski: Absolutely. To assist them in anyway possible. 'Motion has been made and seconded to table C ofA 2007-0904. Applicant indicated that time was not an issue either way other than the potential destruction from the leaking roof that he has to deal with right now, but we're not stalling a project that he has planned and contracted. Juszczyk: Uh, yes you are. I had a permit and you pulled it. So you are stalling a project that I have planned. Herdman: No. A C ofA was issued based on inaccurate information that the roof or the portion of the roof in question was being replaced in-kind. The person that came to get that permit didn't understand that terminology and lead us to believe... Klusczinski: And that asphalt shingle was the result? Herdman: Exactly. Klusczinski: That C ofA isn't valid, that's why this one... Juszczyk: All I'm saying is that I was planning to do these repairs and that you ARE stopping me from doing it. Klusczinski: Fair enough. Any other Commission discussion on the topic? Hearing none, I call for a vote. All in favor? (Ayes) Opposed? (Silence) Motion to table C ofA 2007-0904 pending an investigation and other assessments on repairs passes. Herdman: Do we need a motion to charge us to do that work, or do you prefer it to go to committee? Hostetler: Do you want to put this in Standards and Maintenance? In landmarks? Klusczinski: I'm going to make a suggestion that we leave it to staff to work out, and if they get in over their head, then they can ask for. Hostetler: None of us are experts in slate roofs. Klusczinski: No, but so far as being able to pull contractor information and maybe hear the assessments that they're trying to gather. Herdman: I can do that. Peterson: As a clarification, the ordinance allows for 45 days, not 60 days. So, it's 45 days, so you'll have to act on next meeting. Sporleder: Sir, is there anybody, uh do you have a congregation here? And would there be anyone thereto let us in or to look at the roof. We wouldn't want to go on the property unless we had someone there. Juszczyk: I can make arrangements to have someone here to open the doors. Klusczinski: And our staff has your contact information? Ok. Moved: Choitz To table C of A 2007-0904 Second: Sporleder Approved Unanimously E Application Number: COA# 2007-0905A Property Location: 710 Park Avenue Property Owner: Georges Enderle Landmark or District Designation: Local Landmark, Chapin Park LHD/NR Rating: Outstanding STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: This Eclectic Italianate was built for Mary Chapin Anderson and Andrew Anderson between 1875 and 1877. Four generations of the Anderson-DuShane family lived in this house until 1962. APPLICATION ITEMS: For Comparative purpose: Restoration on one window (one glass) in bay area of dining room. Replacement of one window (two glasses), next to restored window with Marvin Window (wood ultimate insert double hung window). This proposal will allow to compare the aesthetical and thermal impact of the restoration solution and the replacement solution and provide valuable information for the how the window problem in my house can be solved satisfactorily. Standards and Guidelines for Chapin Park: II Existing Structures, C Windows and Doors: Please see attached pages 74 and 75 of the Chapin Park Standards and Guidelines for the verbatim Standards concerning windows. GROUP B LANDMARK STANDARDS B. Treatment: Treatment shall be defined as any change of surface materials that will not alter the style or original form. Such improvements include reproofing, glazing, or landscaping lawns and may involve a change that can potentially enhance or detract from the character of the landmark. A treatment change of any surface whether on the landmark or in its environment may require a Certificate of Appropriateness if it significantly alters the appearance of the landmark. Although these kinds of changes may not require a Building Permit, a Certificate of Appropriateness may be necessary. The commission should review the proposed treatment for character and style consistency with the original surfaces. RECOMMENDATION: Staff recommends approval of this experiment. The two window applications will be side by side under nearly identical conditions on the west side of the bay and will not be visible from the street. Sporleder: Excuse me, I've just finally read this, and I don't believe that this is a correct statement, I don't believe that this is on the West side. I think it's on the North side. Sorry Amy, I didn't see that before. Herdman: You don't need to apologize to me. Sporleder: I know that you said that if there was information that needed corrected... Herdman: No ma'am, just on the minutes. DeFrees: Alan Defrees, 18333 Gardenia Drive. I'm here for Dr. Enderle because I teach at Notre Dame and I teach in the school of Architecture, and there are two main interests that I have. I teach students that are involved with the energy concerns of buildings, and the other is that I'm starting to work with the Historic Preservation concentration also. Historic Preservation has been an interest of mine for decades, since I got into architecture. In fact I got into architecture remembering visiting my grandmother and walking down the street and seeing historic homes in the neighborhood. One of the greatest concerns that I have is that in our future we're going to have to have energy efficient buildings. Forty percent of our primary energy used is in our buildings. And so we're using a tremendous amount of energy, while making great progress in areas of transportation and agriculture and industry. With buildings we have this huge problem regarding making them energy efficient. There's a lot about old buildings is good. Lots of windows meant opening windows and not relying on air conditioning to remain comfortable. Today many people are still going to AC to do that, but our future is going to have to determine how to keep windows operable so that we can use them throughout many seasons and how we can work towards having an energy efficient building. I'm here pro-bono and not charging anyone for this because part of the interest of this is that the scientific facts are pretty easy to sort out, but this area of decision of when we're altering a building to it's detriment is of real concern tome. What Professor Enderle is proposing, initially he wanted to change the four 10 windows of the bay to a wood frame Marvin window with the same proportions and operations as the other window except it contained double paned glass with argon fill which makes it more efficient, but also a low -e coating which also makes it more efficient as far as the thermal transfer. Single pane glass has absolutely no insulating value at all, so this would be a huge difference. We've looked at other possibilities, and one of them was the possibility of storm windows on the outside, but this house has never had storm windows on the outside. The traditional storm window really needs about an inch and a quarter minimum of reveal on the exterior trim for them to fit. If we tried that, the windows would stick out from the trim and would not fit properly. I feel that this would be a detriment to the appearance of the building and actually there's a number of homes in the area that have done that and architecturally it really does alter the appearance of a building. One of things about our older buildings is that windows were recessed back and placed on a plane further back from the building. This is part of the thing that makes them so attractive. When we put storms on the outside, you're losing the depth of the fagade. This is one of the things that we thought would be a detriment to the house, they'd just look odd. One of the great threats to our historic buildings is how to keep them warm in the winter and comfortable in the summer at the same time. And so, also with a storm we have the problem of having to change them at times of the year that may not exactly be appropriate. Making a decision of when to change windows can still cost money. So, we're looking to rather than change all the windows is to replace them with modern windows and save all the parts if anyone wants to restore them later, that could be done. So, what we're proposing now is to change one window so that we can do two things to see what the difference is, this is a full sized elevation of the drawing, this is the existing condition and the sill and the trim on the side. The one thing that will be different in appearance as far as the profile of everything is the sill that is an integral part of the window and if this is installed you could do two things, rip out the existing sill and insert this in some way, but I don'tfeel this is desirable. You couldn't reverse the installation later if someone wanted to. We'll end up with windows of the same proportion except for this very slim sill. Sothis is what we've proposed and this is of very great interest tome because I'm interested in energy usage and I'm going to take measurements to see the differences. We're proposing to restore the other existing window to perform as well as it can possibly perform functionally with the windows going up and down and so forth. The thermal performance needs to be evaluated, not just because you have storm windows and two panes, and these modern panes really do save a lot of energy. We will save all of the pieces if someone does want to reverse the process. This is the only visual change which most people will not be able to notice from the street. Any questions? Musezinski: I'll get to that. Chair opens up discussion for questions for either the petitioner or the staff. I did have a few questions myself. Sporleder: I was just comparing and if you line these up, it looks sort of significant on apiece of paper- like % of an inch difference, but if windows are 6 ft tall, I'm not sure that I'd noticeY4 of an inch. Klusezinksi: Mr. Defrees, I did hear you speak about exterior wood storms and the amount of reveal but I didn't hear you discuss maybe what would be a permanent fix for the person that you're representing and that would be either aluminum storms on the outside that could be removed with the least work being done to the building or interior storms. Maybe the energy potential in savings, and the reason that I'm asking these questions is that this is very much deja vu for a number of us that have been through a couple of C of A's last year. I think that it's important for us to understand the concept of what's happening. I think that last year, and correct me if I'm wrong Professor, you proposed 10 windows out of 54 in your house, and 10 out of 54 back then, it really cries out to me on what energy savings potential the owner of the property would be able to have from that. Some of the windows that were proposed were not those that were in detriment and leaking so much either. So, I was thereat that property and I know the house intimately and it was proposed at that time that maybe other options would better suit the house. I appreciate your opinion and at least as far as I'm trying to get to here, we have standards and guidelines which we have to abide by too, which don't necessarily reflect vision and some of your opinion, so we try to factor that in also. Again, this is just me talking, but I 11 would like to hear if you're interested in the test results how this couldn't be tested outside of a historic property especially one that has a Significant rating in the Chapin Park Historic District. If you couldn'tfind out another independent way of making this assessment. The 800 lb gorilla in this comparison is this seems like a veiled attempt to do one window because it's not clear, since this is an experiment for a comparative purpose, what is the criteria of aesthetic and thermal impact, how will that be measured, who determines the criteria for_the test, how do we find out about, legally what could we do if we weren't pleased with the aesthetic results to reverse this procedure, and what timeframe the test would be completed in. A single pane window will always fail against a double pane window. I think that maybe to make this a fair test, if maybe that was the original intention, would have been to restore the window with some storm window solution to be a comparative for what's being proposed. That would do less to infringe upon the reveal. So those are my thoughts and I appreciate any response and comments that you have about that. Defrees: Regarding the measure of aesthetics of the windows, I really know of no possible test. Klusczinski: So it would fail, it would fail as readily as comparing a single pane window to a double pane window for thermal efficiency, that was kind of my point. Defrees: As far as aesthetics, there's no real way to compare it. Klusczinski: And I'm just reading verbatim how this was proposed. Defrees: So aesthetically, I have no basis, there's no basis as far as I know to measure. As far as the actual physical testing (comments incomplete due to end of tape%hanging tape for recording) Now when we get to things like storm windows, then there's a lot of different things that come into play including the existing profile of the window and how it fits in, how well it can be sealed, as it's a removable pane, it's not glued or sealed in place. We want to look at thermal conductance, but there are all these other matters too. This is an interest to me, because one of the problems that we have to solve is the huge amount of energy usage that we have in America. I understand the differences in costs between old windows and new windows and the functionality of the windows. One thing that is very different is that on the first warm day of spring you want to open up your windows and you have to take down your storms and then for the next three weeks it snows. So you're losing 3-4 weeks in the spring and fall when you could be conserving energy. This is my area of extreme interest. When I was down in AL a few years ago, the coldest weather they have is our warmest, and a couple of the buildings that I saw showed me how important it's going to be how we accomplish historic preservation. Laws change and it affects our buildings. One of the most damaging things is the banning of lead based paint. I saw dozens of houses that have had exteriors stripped off and covered with vinyl siding because the owners can't afford to paint every 2-3 years in their high humidity. Klusczinski: IfI might stop you, if you'd answer specifically who's in charge of the test? And for what time period? DeFrees: I'll be conducting the test. We'll hope to have a cold day... Klusczinski: I don't mean the day it would be begin, but what duration? DeFrees: Oh, I would do it more than one time period, I would conduct tests at regular intervals over maybe a week's period to see the numbers we'd get. Ujdak: I find this thing kind of interesting. In proposing this test when they know what the results are. Klusczinski: Right. Ujdak: It's a phony test, it's a loaded test. That's like comparing the pace of a snail and a corvette. I can't buy it. I know what's going to happen, and you know what's going to happen. DeFrees: This is why I'm here. Ujdak: No amount of verbiage is going to change this. It's a loaded test. Peterson: I'd like to interject just from a legal standpoint. There's two things; the motivation behind doing it is really in someway is really irrelevant depending on what they're presenting. If they're presenting to do one window, then you're deciding whether it's appropriate to do one window. Whether they're doing tests on it, they're painting what they're doing is irrelevant. If what you're doing is proposing to measure for the rest of your house, then that's a different application. I'm seeking a solution for my whole house and this is one window will present the 12 first affect of this experiment, or the first stage of my replacement. In that case, then the experimentation is a relevant consideration. There's some confusion there. If your thought really is a solution then the C ofA should be more detailed in terms ofyour true intentions. DeFrees: The most the important part of the experiment is not the thermal, it's the aesthetic, because... Klusczinski: But as you said it's going to fail because it's not to exactly compare to what we had. That's very subjective. It's not going to look better when you put a sill on top of a sill then one that is designed and built and installed right on the property there. DeFrees: You talk about absolute. But we don't know the degree of savings. I'd much rather have the window look exactly as it does right now, but when we have to make a decision between the two... Klusczinski: And what I'd say is that I don 't' see any basis in the guidebook for what we're trying to decide as far as the preservation of a structure that has any leniency towards scientific analysis that could turn into a precedent for every other window in that house. I'm not sure that we're prepared to make that argument or that case tonight because that's certainly something that could come out of this. It's loaded. And also for the record, interject a couple things that were not part of the application items here within... well, yes and no, in the Chapin Park guidebook on page 81, it says 'in the case of structures located within the district which are designated individually as landmarks, the most restrictive guidelines shall apply'. That's very simple. Then when you go in Group B standards, which apply to 710 Park Avenue it says on page 1 that you're required to maintain the building as is, and ifpossible returned to original. Two very absolute statements and we're faced with this scientific analysis which is a little bit smoke and mirrors beyond what we're supposed to be focused on for historic aesthetics. Zeiger: My question is about the unit itself. Is this a clad unit that you're proposing to put in? DeFrees: We're proposing a clad unit, but we would consider wood. A painted wood window. Klusczinski: But the window on the C ofA is clad? Petitioner responded, but did not approach the microphone, so comments are unintelligible. Zeiger: I'm asking a question so I understand what I'm looking at here. Before it was clad. I'm just asking what the application is for. So the application is for a painted wood unit. I'm a little confused though about how long this unit will be in for. In your presentation you said that in case someone decides to restore this, these pieces parts will be saved, so that says to me that this isn't an experiment and this is a permanent installation that you're askingfor. So how long is this window intended to be in for experimental purposes. Enderle: As soon as we have reliable results we'll make another application. The proposal is, and I think that this is a pragmatic way to proceed that doesn't pre-suppose anything. Look at both dimensions, if we can find out that both windows look almost the same we don't have to say that they are completely different, but aesthetically, there's no big difference. This is a very... Klusczinski: But you're judge and jury over something that you're asking our. permission for. Enderle: The only difference is in the picture here. Zeiger: I object to the extra sills, I objected to the extra sills last year because you do notice it, it sits back from the edge from the original and you can seethe new sill. Is this a permanent installation or is this really an experiment? When you take out the windows, how are you going to, in three weeks, put it back in when we don't approve of the change? You're going to put it back? Enderle: Sure. Hostetler: When we were discussing this with Mr. DeFrees and Dr. Enderle, the idea was to fully restore one of the wood windows so that it's functioning properly, sealing, and fitting into it's frame properly to see just how much energy is being lost.. An appreciable difference? Zeiger: Maybe this is under conversations of the Commission, and I would like to pursue that a bit more. Oh, and why not have sash packs instead of an entire window with an extra sill and a jamb and all that? DeFrees: I'm not sure what you're talking about. Zeiger: Kolbe and Kolbe and Marvin and others make a system to replace just the sash that don't' require sills and jambs and other things with a spring loaded system so that you can 13 exactly match the sash that are in place but they're double hung thermal glazed. They don't require the sill, or the jamb changing. It's a sash pack. This, what you're proposing does shrink it down. DeFrees: No it doesn't. The one thing that could be done is to alter the sill, but I think that's... Zeiger: You're talking about routing out the sill. That's my question, why these sash kits weren't considered. DeFrees: We did look at one vinyl unit, but... Zeiger: I'm not proposing a vinyl window. Enderle: The proposal that we're proposing now it gives more stability to the whole thing than just to have 2 sashes, and that is the basic point. And it doesn't make the daylight smaller, we measured in my letter. The replacement window is almost the same surface as, and that's why the proposal is not the final thing, I'm very interested to.know how that s practical. If it is possible to do it, you know, then we can say yes, and if it raises too many questions then we can -talk. When I went to see Catherine and Wayne, my proposal was just to have one replacement window. And they explained that it would be meaningful to have this one restored and have them side by side. So we know both and we can get a realistic picture to compare it. Klusczinski; Not until there's another storm window to compliment ... Enderle: The storm window question in the bay window area is perfectly clear- it's not possible to have exterior storm windows, it's never been it's not possible, or inside, you have not the authority to force me to put in inside storm windows. Klusczinski: But that doesn't mean that it's not a solution. Enderle: For me, it's not a solution. Klusczinski: I also had a question for you directly and that was, I have 3 C ofA's for the windows at different times: 2006-0908A, 2006-1005A and the one we're seeing tonight. Just for my satisfaction, did Professor Enderle ever pay the processing fee for these? Hostetler: Uh, yes he did. I have a receipt right here. Klusczinski: For the one tonight? Hostetler: For the one tonight. Klusczinski: So we have an outstanding balance of $20 for those that we've already heard? Ok, I just wanted to know. Enderle: I asked to pay $10 every time and I was told that this is part of the original proposal so I don't have to pay, but if you want my $20, I can do it tonight. Klusczinski: I was very happy that you paid tonight, but I was also under the impression that without paying for both of the original ones last year that you may not have again tonight. I wanted to see if there's a problem with staff or something else that we needed to attend to. Riley: Can I make a comment and I apologize... Klusczinski: Only if it's a question, because I have to open public hearing. Any other questions for the petitioner? Hearing none. I open public hearing. Any member of the public wishing to speaking in favor of the public? DeFrees: I would. Klusczinski: You're a representative of the petitioner. DeFrees: Yes, but I'm not the petitioner. Ujdak: Give him 3 minutes. DeFrees: I'd really most like to hear what all of you think of this kind of situation and what you think of the future of our historic buildings. Zeiger: Didn't we address that, because I have a response to that. Because there are studies out there that you can make these windows thermally efficient -US Dept of Energy, Homebuilders Associations, we have that data. So, the question of can we make them thermally efficient has been answered and it's yes. DeFrees: With alterations. Zeiger: No, with an internal storm window. Which the petitioner doesn't want. All I'm doing is addressing your question. There are ways to make them more thermally efficient without ripping them out. I understand your position on the interior storms and we don't have anyplace to go in the interior, but yes we can make them more efficient. If you're about thermal efficiency that's 14 fine, but ifyou're looking at payback costs, that's a whole nother matter. When the argon gas leaks out and the seals are broken. You don't weigh those costs. DeFrees: I disagree with you. (Unintelligible due to distancefrom the microphone) I would like to have the windows just as they are, but no matter what we do we're going to alter them in some way. To what degree, what is the dividing line... do we deny them the change that would help preserve the room or do we take the chance of it collapsing. Klusczinski: We have to be cautious because otherwise you're opening the door to everyone's best effort and you're throwing away this that is very objective for us to use. DeFrees: (Unintelligible due to distance from the microphone) I'm not here to argue with anyone, I'm here to learn. Klusczinski: Anyone else to speak in support? D Sporleder: Professor of Architecture Emeritus, University of Notre Dame, I do want to speak in favor of the petition and on the point that it does seem to me to be of value to have the experimental data right on the table as the Commission addresses these issues. It's important to keep clear the strength in a quality base on which one works. The standards and guidelines are important, but sometimes taking a second look is warranted. HIusczinski: Any member of the public wishing to speak in opposition? Doolitte: Wayne Doolittle, President Chapin Park Neighborhood Association. For my way of understanding this there's no reason to have a test because it's flawed I'm always surprised when there are other alternatives available even if you don't like them specifically, they are still available and those things might be permitted. We cannot, with those guidelines, we can not . change those windows. You must have the exact windows. There are exact copies with a dual pane, you don't change the profile at the sill. Speaking for me, the neighborhood, and others. on the board, there's no way that this should be allowed. If you allow it, then you have lost the battle. Anybody else can put whatever they want in their houses. Once you say yes, you've lost everybody else. That's what you're looking out. Do we throw out anything that has to do with preservation. There are certain things that go along with it. You correct your problems or you sell it. It's constant repair, I've been in mine 31 years and I'm still working on it. I think there are other alternative, but I think that we've come to a point... in the standards it says you can't do that. They say no, you can't do it. We don't need to argue at all. There are other ways. I don't think that it should pass. Ujdak: Will you read the standards again? Klusczinski: There are pages in the Chapin Park book that pertain. Certain pages defer anything more stringent to landmark guidelines first. This house has been a local landmark since 1973/1974, and CP was established in March 2005. So the Group B standards say that the building must be maintained as is or preferably returned to the original. Ujdak: Ijust wanted that to be clear. Peterson: Just a reminder again, your job is to determine if the application is appropriate, in light of the guidelines, the district and the house. Is there a detriment to the public if this is allowed. And finally is there a hardship in denying it. Those are the three factors. When you vote, you will have to say why, say your rationale for denying. This application, by testimony, dictates that you are trying to find a solution that's undefined. In that way, I'd view it as somewhat a conditional C of A, that is an exit strategy must already be applied. What's the security that the Commission has that the removal will occur. Since they're looking to solve a larger and undefined problem here, you should consider that. If you believe that's how it's been portrayed to you. Klusczinski: Thank you Shawn, let me close public hearing right now. Any additional discussion? Linda? Riley: I'm almost afraid to say this, but why couldn't the window be altered by putting a second pane ofglass when you reglaze it. Klusczinski: The short answer to that Linda is that what they've done with modern windows is that they've eliminated the gap where a storm would sit, removing the insulating quality of the window. 15 Discussion of modern window building techniques transpires here among Commissioners Klusczinski, Sporleder, Riley. Klusczinski: Discussion is closed, I'll entertain a motion. Zeiger: I'll make a motion to deny C of A 2007-0905A as it's not in keeping with Chapin Park standards and it's landmark standards, and this is a permanent removal of original fabric of an outstanding rated building, and I think that that is a significant alteration, and I don't find the proposed sash to be replicative of what's there. Choitz: I second. Peterson: Because there's a motion on the table to deny, you will need a roll call vote, listing your reasons... Klusczinski: And ayes are denial. Patrick: Before we vote on this, may I interject one thought? I really liked Shawn's comment about if you wanted to just restore the one and then judge that might tell him that he didn't need to do... Klusczinski: But there's already a motion on the table. Patrick: There's already a motion on the table. Riley: Would you repeat that motion, and what we're actually... Zeiger: The motion is fairly simple: deny C ofA... Riley: Deny, you said? Zeiger: Correct, and I stated my reasons, but do I do it again now or when I vote? Peterson: When you vote. Klusczinski: And it was seconded by Martha. We'll begin with roll call then. Motion is to deny Certificate of Appropriateness 2007-0905A. Jerry? Ujdak: I vote for the motion to deny the Certificate. Klusczinski: Could you state your reason to deny? Ujdak: On the basis that it does not follow the established rules. Sporleder: I vote against this proposal because I think that the proposal is much in the keeping with the spirit of the Commission in trying to solve sensible solutions to difficult problems. I think that it's an appropriate and accommodating approach finding a solution to a sticky set of circumstances which we're going to face over and over again. Klusczinski: Thank you. Martha? Choitz: I vote against the Certificate, because I do believe that our rules are perfectly understandable and they will open up wide an unnecessary thing like tonight over and over and over as long as they've done it very simply. You do have to work as a group in a situation of that kind, in a landmark. I could go on forever, and I usually do. Zeiger: My vote is in favor of the motion against the C of A. I think that this is a permanent removal of significant original fabric- this is a significant change to this outstanding rated building, and I find that the proposed replacement window unit is not _ matching the configuration of the sash and therefore against the guidelines as adopted. Klusczinski: Tim Klusczinksi, I vote in favor of the motion to deny. This particular C of A proposes an experiment which has indefinite limits, is designed to establish a precedent that conflicts for the guidebooks for the Chapin Park historic district, in my opinion, and also for the Group B Landmark standards. The example for replacement is not in-kind to the existing material, and I'd also echo everything else that Todd spoke to. Patrick: Lynn Patrick, voting in favor of the motion to deny the Certificate of Appropriateness because it is not consistent with the Chapin Park guidelines. Riley: Linda Riley voting against the proposal to deny. I think that the proposal is trying to work with us, and it really doesn't look that much different, I can't see a problem. 16 Herdman: Your total, Chair is 5-2. Klusczinski: 5-2, so the motion to deny carries. Moved: Zeiger Second: Motion to deny C of A 2007-0905A Approved B. LANDMARKS - None. H. REGULAR BUSINESS A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES August 20, 2007 Moved: Hostetler Second: Approved B. TREASURER'S REPORT 5 votes to 2 Accepted into record as presented, dated August 31, 2007 C. STAFF REPORTS 1. Correspondence Zeiger: None. 2. Director - Catherine Hostetler Patrick: Distributed to Commission. 3. Assistant Director - Amy Herdman Riley: Distributed to Commission. 4. Legal Counsel - Shawn Peterson None. D. COMMITTEE REPORTS Choitz 5 votes to 2 Ujdak: Aye Choitz: Aye Zeiger: Aye Klusczinski: Aye Patrick: Aye Sporleder: Nay Riley: Nay Patrick Unanimously Sporleder Abstaining 1. President's Report - Tim Klusczinski President Klusczinski announced that Sandy Rossow has been appointed a Citizen Member of the Landmarks Committee of the HPC. III. OLD BUSINESS IV. NEW BUSINESS Director Hostetler requested permission for Director and Assistant Director to attend Cornelius O'Brien conference in Richmond, IN in October 2007. Moved: Zeiger Second: Patrick — - Approved Unanimously V. HEARING OF VISITORS Don Sporleder: A reminder that the University Club closes permanently on September 22, 2007. Save the Dunes will hold their annual meeting on October 7h between 2-4pm. Also, the Urban Forest Council will meet in Brown County on October 10''. 17 ADJOURNMENT Moved: 9:10 pm Riley Second: Choitz Approved: Unanimously Commission of South Bend & St. Joseph County -/o 13 Date IVV SOUTH BEND & SAINT JOSEPH COUNTY HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 179 2007 MEETING GUESTS: PLEASE SIGN THIS LIST SO THAT, YOUR PRESENCE CAN BE NOTED FOR OUR, MINUTES Print Name Address Signature I I'M d A',13V'O d(A [ 17 19 ,1-04J T-P<A6--f f (!S E Uiv 5T - y cl Ala,, R.Defrec-.5 10-3-33 0cw-L,' ov. Georne-s Didex(e -710 Pot,& AVe— ::7 r -