HomeMy WebLinkAboutOctober 20063
SOUTH@ . Wi
AGENDA OF THE OCTOBER 16, 2006 52
COMMISSION: MEETING os
r
1865
Regular Meeting 4th Floor Council Chambers
County -City Building
MONDAY, October 16, 2006 7:30PM
j I. CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL
II. PUBLIC HEARING
r A. CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS
` 1. 710 Park Avenue COA# 2006-1005A
y N B. LANDMARK
� z
1. 853 Forest -Second Reading
H
C. NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION
r , . III. REGULAR BUSINESS
A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
September 18, 2006
B. TREASURER'S REPORT
Location Report
C. COMMITTEE REPORTS
a1. President's Report:
2. Committee Reports
w 3
D. STAFF REPORTS:
a 1. C of A Approvals; Correspondence;
A. Director's Report
Mei B. Assistant Director's Report
3
2. Legal
IV. OLD BUSINESS
~ V. NEW BUSINESS
VI. HEARING OF VISITORS AND ADJOURNMENT
STAFF REPORT. .
CONCERNING APPLICATION FOR A
CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS
Date: October 6, 2006
Application Number: 2006-1005-A
Property Location: 710 Park Avenue
Property Owner: Georges Enderle
Landmark or District Designation: Local Landmark, Chapin Park LHD/NR
Rating: Outstanding
STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: This Eclectic Italianate was built for
Mary Chapin Anderson and Andrew Anderson between 1875 and 1877. Four generations of the
Anderson-DuShane family lived in this house until 1962.
APPLICATION ITEMS: Replace 10 windows -5 rectangle window and 5 windows with rounded top sashes -
with single unit, all wood, aluminum clad exterior, with AuraLast (20 year guarantee) double hung, low -E
with Argon, (Jeld Wen, see quote from Home Depot)
Standards and Guidelines for Chapin Park: II Existing Structures, C Windows and Doors, Required:
Original windows and doors shall be retained including sashes, lintels, stills, shutters, decorative
glass....%en deteriorated beyond repair they shall be replaced with units and trim resembling the original.
Recommended: Wood storm windows .... to match the original should be used but should not damage existing
frames. If new sashes...are installed, the existing or original materials... should be used. Prohibited: Original
doors windows and hardware shall not be discarded when they can be restored and reused in place. New
window and door openings, which would alter the scale and proportion of the building may not be introduced.
Inappropriate new window and door features such as metal, vinyl or fiberglass awnings, hoods or aluminum
insulating glass combinations that require the removal of original windows and doors shall not be installed.
GROUP B LANDMARK STANDARDS B. Treatment: Treatment shall be defined as any change of
surface materials that will not alter the style or original form. Such improvements include reproofing, glazing,
or landscaping lawns and may involve a change that can potentially enhance or detract from the character of
the landmark. A treatment change of any surface whether on the landmark or in its environment may require a
Certificate of Appropriateness if it significantly alters the appearance of the landmark ... The commission
should review the proposed treatment for character and style consistency with the original surfaces.
RECOMMENDATION: Staff does not recommend approval. Professor Enderle application is
requesting the complete removal of 10 windows and their replacement with modem double hung
windows with exterior aluminum cladding. The Chapin Park Standards and Guidelines prohibits "New
window and door openings, which would alter the scale and proportion of the building may not be
introduced. Inappropriate new window and door features such as....aluminum insulating glass
combinations that require the removal of original windows shall not be installed."
Professor Enderele is requesting that ten of his original windows be completely removed and replaced
with new windows having rectangular sashes. This would alter the appearance of the five windows with
arched top sashes. This is not allowed under the Standards and Guidelines for the district or in the Group
B Standards.
The complete removal of the rectangular windows located in the dining room area is too invasive as
modern replacement wooden sashes are available through Jeld Wen's Zap Pack product line.
Replacement windows are also available for the arched top windows but as a custom order from Jeld
Wen's product line; but these would be a complete replacement window system.
Application
- FOR -
Certificate of Appropriateness
Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend & St. Joseph County
125 S. Lafayette Blvd., South Bend, Indiana 46601
Mailing Address: County -City Building, South Bend, Indiana 46601
Phone: 574-235-9798 - Fax: 574-235-9578 - Email: SBSJCHPC@co.st josephin us
Website: http://www.sgosephcountyindiana.com/s chp/index.html
OFFICE USE ONLY »»» DO NOT COMPLETE ANY ENTRIES CONTAINED IN THIS BOX »»» OFFICE USE ONLY
Date Received S6C7W;9EJ0G 2000 Application Number-? O Oho _ /005.4
Past Reviews: EVES (Date of t ast Review) 9' /I -.Z d O 6 ❑ NO
Staff Approval authorized by: Title:
Historic Commission Review Date:
R<ocal Landmark Woeal Historic District (Name) dZ4'4 rJ TL -k
[ Kational Landmark ❑ National Register District (Name)
Certificate of Appropriateness:
Denied Ej Tabled E] Sent To Committee E] Approved and Issued
Address of Property for proposed work:
Name of Property Owner(s): (Please Print)
To Pot rk AVB ,
Street Number and Street Name
6EOIZ6 S ENDF—PLE
DATE
Address of Property Owner(s): WO Pp r1-14ve-,
Contractor(s) Name: (Z I CP FV t2 I-
.> r -t V NTL E
Contract Company Name: NONE SERVICE.
Contractor Address: EE621 A11AbOµt- (240CIA
City: Do wa°I t GiC Mt Phone: 574- 220 4¢7�S
V r /�,
Current Use of Building- 'Si
University of Notre Dame
Mendoza College of Business 393
Notre Dame, Indiana 46556-0399
Arthu. Georges Enderle
r
and Mary O'Neil
Professor of International Business Ethics
Historic Preservation Commission
St. Joseph County, Indiana
125 S. Lafayette Blvd.
South Bend, IN 46601
Sir:
Madam:
Phone: 574-631-5595
Fax: 574-631-5255
E -Mail: genderle@nd.edu
October 5, 2006
As you requested in the meeting of September 18, 2006, I prepared the photographs and drawings
for the windows project at 710 Park Avenue, South Bend. The drawings include three sets:
- Existing windows,
- Existing location with Jeld Wen windows,
- Existing location with existing windows and (new) storm windows.
I may note that, according to my historical record of 710 Park Avenue, the house had never storm
windows; the installation of storm windows would considerably alter the appearance of the house;
and, as the drawings show, their installation would be technically problematic.
The cost estimates show that the restoration of windows and installation of storm windows would
be more expensive than the replacement with high quality Jeld Wen windows which do not
change the appearance of the house:
Cost estimate for restoring a window of 39 3/4" X 88 1/8":
- Combo storm windows: full screen,
removable glass inserts, delivery, installation: $400.00 (based on quote from Iowa
company and R. Guntle's estimate)
- Reparation and installation of (existing) window $350.00 (based on S. Sakimoto's costs,
applied to bigger size of window)
Total $750.00
Cost estimate for replacing a window of 37" X 86":
- Single unit replacement window
- Installation
Total
$575.00 (see quote of Home Depot)
$125.00
$700.00
Given this comparison between the restoration option and the replacement option, I therefore
apply for the proposed replacement option indicated in my application form.
This request concerns only 10 windows (out of 54), namely in the dinning room, master bedroom,
and master bathroom.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Georges Enderle
710 Park Avenue
South Bend, IN 46616
Enclosures
WINDOWS AT 710 PARK AVENUE
DINING ROOM
EXISTING WINDOW
pil
Z-71
4
34'
T-212" 11-1"-
3..22„
3:3„
MUM UZI l ! IS�a
EXISTING WINDOW
EXTERIOR ELEVATION
3'-32"
SCALE 1" =1'
EXISTING WINDOW
VERTICAL SECTION
3'-3;'T'
• ti
33„
4
g
SCALE 1" = 1'
WINDOWS AT 710 PARK AVENUE
DINING ROOM
EXISTING WINDOW
HORIZONTAL SECTION
OUTSIDE
T -C 1.
4
8
� I
INSIDE
SCALE 1" = 1'
4
1
33'
4
WINDOWS AT 7 10 PARK AVENUE
DINING ROOM
2
FA
�324"—
EXISTING WINDOW
VERTICAL SECTION
33"
4
OUTSIDE
4��
To
8
SCALE 311 = it
WINDOWS AT 7 10 PARK AVENUE
DINING ROOM
EXISTING WINDOW
HORIZONTAL SECTION
31-01/410
2'-41/4"
�IUTS IE
T,
CASING
13,,
ii 4
PARTING STOP
9" METAL STRIP iz.
8
WINDOW.STOP 1
13.,
REUSE I 4
INSIDE1
f
SCALE 31f =1'
WINDOWS AT 710 PARK AVENUE
DINING ROOM
EXISTING LOCATION WITH JELD-WEN WINDOW
ELEVATION
XTFt2(o I
1.
i -C4
38"
3'-2$"
T-22" 1t„
3'-2$"
3'-6 6„
SCALE 1" = 1'
INSIDE
WINDOWS AT 710 PARK AVENUE
DINING ROOM
EXISTING LOCATION WITH JELD-WEN WINDOW
T-2$"
T-28"
4 6,. 116,
--18,.
VERTICAL SECTION
OUTSIDE
SCALE 1" = 1'
WINDOWS AT 710 PARK AVENUE
DINING ROOM
EXISTING LOCATION WITH JELD-WEN WINDOW
OUTSIDE
K7• I0 ,
HORIZONTAL SECTION
SCALE 1" = 1'
un, I
EXISTING LOCATION WITH JELD-WEN WINDOW
VERTICAL SECTION
f
5,,
3
i
111„
16
1z"
8
t SCALE 311
WINDOWS AT 710 PARK AVENUE
DINING ROOM
EXISTING LOCATION WITH JELD-WEN WINDOW
HORIZONTAL SECTION
T-0 1/4
2J-611/1
OUTSID i
513
16r� ( 33„
16
17..
1 s
INSIDE
SCALE 3" = 1'
DINING ROOM
EXISTING WINDOW WITH STORM WINDOW
..yy
EXTERIOR ELEVATION
T-33.
4
11
2�'16j
1
41"
T-5" 24"
3,_2 6„
___ SCALE 1" = 1'
WINDOWS AT 710 PARK AVENUE
DINING ROOM
EXISTING WINDOW WITH STORM WINDOW
VERTICAL SECTION
3'-27L,:63-"
INSIDE OUTSIDE
�4„
Ll
33„
4
7„
L1341, 8
SCALE 1" = 1'
r
2
3'-27L,:63-"
INSIDE OUTSIDE
�4„
Ll
33„
4
7„
L1341, 8
SCALE 1" = 1'
WINDOWS AT 710 PARD. AVENUE
DINING ROOM
EXISTING WINDOW WITH STORM WINDOW
HORIZONTAL SECTION
• t�
- 4„
11„
2-616
INSIDE
SCALE 1" =1'
WINDOWS AT 710 PARK AVENUE
DINING ROOM
EXISTING WINDOW WITH STORM WINDOW
VERTICAL SECTION
I -T
INSIDE
OUTSIDE
1.
2111
F -I
4
4
SCALE 311 it
WINDOWS AT 7 10 PARK AVENUE
DINING ROOM
EXISTING WINDOW WITH STORM WINDOW
HORIZONTAL SECTION
UTSID3,
J i I
SCALE 311 =1'
, MF:���
;USTOMER: ENDERLE.GEORGE
710 PARK AVENUE
SOUTH BEND, IN -46616
(574}2346582
Home Depot Store 2033
317 INDIAN RIDGE BLVD
MISHAWAKA, IN 46545
(574)273-8601
SALES ASSOCIATE:
P.O. #:
Thank you for shopping The Home Depotl We value your businessl
ITEM
PRODUCT CODE
LOCATION
FRAME SIZE
DESCRIPTION
0002 Dining
MANUI-AU I UKtK: JtLU-VVtN
Windows &
Custom Frame Height
Doors, The
64.58
Caradco
$
Collection
Product Dimensions:
Rough Opening: 3' 1 3/4" x 7'2 3/4'
Book Code: TCD -Custom Size
Exterior Finish: Aluminum Clad Exterior with AuraLast
Frame: 3'1"x7'2"
Wood
Sash Opening: 2' 11 5/8" x 7'0"
Product- Double Hung Windows
Product Line: Tradition Plus - Premium Series
574.42 $ 1,148.84
Sash Type: Standard
Product Configuration: Single Unit
Exterior Color: Hartford Green
Scale: 1/8- equals 1'
Exterior Trim: Integral Nailing Fin
Interior Finish: Primed
Jambliner Color. White
Jamb Depth: 4 9/16"
Glass Type: Low -E with Argon
Preserve - Protective Film Reduces Clean-up Glass
Screen Type: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
Screen Frame Color: Hartford Green
Hardware Type: Cam Lock(s)
Hardware Color. Chestnut Bronze
Double Hung Hardware: Block & Tackle Balance, Tilt
Latch
Finger Plow: With Finger Plow(s)
*** An 8 percent volume discount has been applied to this
unit. ***
DATE: 09/11/2006
UNIT PRICE CITY
0�
TOTAL
PRICE
Base Price: TCD3788
$
414.30
Custom Frame Width
$
64.58
Custom Frame Height
$
64.58
Primed Interior
$
15.79
(1) Special Size: Custom Size Screen(s)
$
10.76
(1) Special Size: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
$
4.41
$
574.42 $ 1,148.84
A
ITEM
PRODUCT CODE
LOCATION
FRAME SIZE
DESCRIPTION
Copy of 0002 Dining
MANUFACTURER: JELD-WEN
Custom Frame Height
Windows &
64.58
Doors, The
$
Caradco
(1) Special Size: Custom Size Screen(s)
Collection
Product Dimensions:
Rough Opening: 2'4 1/4* x 7'2.3/4*
Book Code: TCD -Custom Size
Exterior Finish: Aluminum Clad Exterior with Aural-ast
Frame: 2' 3 1/2" x T 2"
Wood
Sash Opening: 2'2 1/8" x TO"
Product: Double Hung Windows
520.06 $ 1,040.12
Product Line: Tradition Plus - Premium Series
Sash Type: Standard
Product Configuration: Single Unit
Exterior Color: 'Hartford Green
Scale: 1/8* equals V
Exterior Trim: Integral Nailing Fin
Interior Finish: Primed
Jambliner Color. White
Jamb Depth: 4 9/16"
Glass Type: Low -E with Argon
Preserve - Protective Film Reduces Clean-up Glass
Screen Type: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
Screen Frame Color: Hartford Green
Hardware Type: Cam Lock(s)
Hardware Color. Chestnut Bronze
Double Hung Hardware: Block & Tackle Balance, Tilt
Latch
Finger Plow- With Finger Plow(s)
*** An 8 percent volume discount has been applied to this
unit. ***
UNIT PRICE QTY
N
TOTAL
PRICE
Base Price: TCD2988
$
360.28
Custom Frame Width
$
64.56
Custom Frame Height
$
64.58
Primed Interior
$
15.79
(1) Special Size: Custom Size Screen(s)
$
10.76
(1) Special Size: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
$
4.07
$
520.06 $ 1,040.12
ITEM LOCATION
PRODUCT CODE
FRAME SIZE
DESCRIPTION
ODU4 Bathroom
OANW-AU I UKEK: JLLU-WEN
Custom Frame Height
Windows &
64.58
Doors, The
$
Caradco
(1) Special Size: Custom Size Screen(s)
Collection
Product Dimensions:
(1) Special Size: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
Rough Opening: 2' 10 3/4" x 7' 2 3/4"
Book Code: TCD -Custom Size
Frame: 2' 10" x 7' 2"
Exterior Finish: Aluminum Clad Exterior with Aural-ast
Sash Opening: 2'85/8"x7'0"
WoodProduct:
Double Hung Windows
Product Line: Tradition Plus - Premium Series
Sash Type: Standard
Product Configuration: Single Unit
Exterior Color: Hartford Green
Exterior Trim: Integral Nailing Fin
Scale:/g• equals 1'
Interior Finish: Primed
Jambliner Color: White
Jamb Depth: 4 9/16"
Glass Type: Low -E with Argon
Preserve - Protective Film Reduces Clean-up Glass
Screen Type: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
Screen Frame Color: Hartford Green
Hardware Type: Cam Lock(s)
Hardware Color: Chestnut Bronze
Double Hung Hardware: Block & Tackle Balance, Tilt
Latch
Finger Plow: With Finger Plow(s)
"' An 8 percent volume discount has been applied to this
unit. "'
UNIT PRICE QTY
1
Base Price: TCD3788
$
414.30
Custom Frame Width
$
64.58
Custom Frame Height
$
64.58
Primed Interior
$
15.79
(1) Special Size: Custom Size Screen(s)
$
10.76
(1) Special Size: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
$
4.31
$
574.32
TOTAL
PRICE
$ 574.32
ITEM LOCATION
PRODUCT CODE
UNIT PRICE QTY TOTAL
PRICE
FRAME SIZE
DESCRIPTION
Uopy or uuuz Bedroom
MANUf AU I UK1=11: JtLU-NVtN
2
Windows &
Doors, The
Caradco
Collection
Product Dimensions:
Book Code: TCD -Custom Size
Rough Opening: 2' 10 3/4" x 7' 2 3/4"
Exterior Finish: Aluminum Clad Exterior with Aural-ast
Frame: 2' 10" x 7'2"
Wood
Sash Opening: 2'8 5/8" x 7'0"
Product: Double Hung Windows
Product Line: Tradition Plus - Premium Series
Sash Type: Standard
Product Configuration: Single Unit
Exterior Color: Hartford Green
Exterior Trim: Integral Nailing Fin
Scale: 1/8" equals r
Interior Finish: Primed
Jambliner Color. White
Jamb Depth: 4 9/16"
Glass Type: Low -E with Argon
Preserve - Protective Film Reduces Clean-up Glass
Screen Type: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
Screen Frame Calor. Hartford Green
Hardware Type: Cam Lock(s)
Hardware Color: Chestnut Bronze
Double Hung Hardware: Block & Tackle Balance, Tilt
Latch
Finger Plow: With Finger Plow(s)
'** An 8 percent volume discount has been applied to this
unit. **`
Base Price: TCD3788
$
414.30
Custom Frame Width
$
64.58
Custom Frame Height
$
64.58
Primed Interior
$
15.79
(1) Special Size: Custom Size Screen(s)
$
10.76
(1) Special Size: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
$
4.31
$
574.32 $ 1,148.64
ITEM LOCATION
PRODUCT CODE
FRAME SIZE
DESCRIPTION
copy of copy of Bedroom
MANWf-AL I UKtK: JtLU-WEN
0002
Windows &
64.58
Doors, The
$
Caradco
(1) Special Size: Custom Size Screen(s)
Collection
Product Dimensions:
(1) Special Size: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
Rough Opening: 2'10 5/8"x 7' 2 3/4"
Book Code: TCD -Custom Size
Frame: 2' 9 7/8" x 7'2"
Exterior Finish: Aluminum Clad Exterior with Aural-ast
Sash Opening: 2' 8 1/2" x 7' 0"
Wood
Product: Double Hung Windows
Product Line: Tradition Plus - Premium Series
Sash Type: Standard
Product Configuration: Single Unit
Exterior Color: Hartford Green
Exterior Trim: Integral Nailing Fin
Scale: 1!8" equals 1'
Interior Finish: Primed
Jambliner Color: White
Jamb Depth: 4 9/16"
Glass Type: Low -E with Argon
Preserve - Protective Film Reduces Clean-up Glass
Screen Type: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
Screen Frame Color: Hartford Green
Hardware Type: Cam Lock(s)
Hardware Color: Chestnut Bronze
Double Hung Hardware: Block & Tackle Balance, Tilt
Latch
Finger Plow: With Finger Plow(s)
"' An 8 percent volume discount has been applied to this
unit. '•`
UNIT PRICE QTY
Base Price: TCD3788
$
414.30
Custom Frame Width
$
64.58
Custom Frame Height
$
64.58
Primed Interior
$
15.79
(1) Special Size: Custom Size Screen(s)
$
10,76
(1) Special Size: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
$
4.30
$
574.31
1
TOTAL
PRICE
$ 574.31
ITEM LOCATION
FRAME SIZE
copyorc6pyor— Bedroom
0002
Composite Product Dimensions:
Rough Opening: 2'10 5/8" x 8'2 1/4"
Frame: 2'9 7/8* x 8' 1 1/2*
Exterior Trim: 2' 9 7/8" x 8' 1 1/2"
Scale: 1/8, equals 1'
Individual Product Dimensions:
Frame: 2'9 7/8* x 7' 1 1/2'
Sash Opening: 2'8 1/2" x 6' 11 1/2"
PRODUCT CODE
DESCRIPTION
__ MANUFACTURER: __JELD-NMN__
Windows &
Doors. The
Caradco
Collection
TCD -Custom Size over CGEO
*** An 8 percent volume discount has been applied to this
unit. ***
COMPOSITE: Mulling Charge for I Mull
Book Code: TCD -Custom Size
Exterior Finish: Aluminum Clad Exterior with Aural-ast
Wood
Product: Double Hung Windows
Product Line: Tradition Plus - Premium Series
Sash Type: Standard
Product Configuration: Single Unit
Exterior Color: Hartford Green
Exterior Trim: Integral Nailing Fin
Interior Finish: Primed
JamblinerColor: White
Jamb Depth: 4 9/16"
Glass Type: Low -E with Argon
Preserve - Protective Film Reduces Clean-up Glass
Screen Type: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
Screen Frame Color. Hartford Green
Hardware Type: Cam Lock(s)
Hardware Color. Chestnut Bronze
Double Hung Hardware: Block & Tackle Balance, Tilt
Latch
Finger Plow: With Finger Plow(s)
*** An 8 percent volume discount has been applied to this
unit. ***
UNIT PRICE QTY
20.09
20.09
Base Price: TCD3788
$
414.30
Custom Frame Width
$
64.58
Custom Frame Height
$
64.58
Primed Interior
$
15.79
(1) Special Size: Custom Size Screen(s)
$
10.76
(1) Special Size: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
$
4.28
$
574.29
I
TOTAL
PRICE
20.09
574.29
ITEM PRODUCT CODE TOTAL
FRAME SIZE LOCATION DESCRIPTION UNIT PRICE QTY PRICE
Individual Product Dimensions:
Frame: 2'9 V8"x 1' 0"
Book Code: CGEO
Exterior Finish: Aluminum Clad Exterior with AuraLast
Wood
Product: Radius and Geometric Windows
Product Type: Spandrel Geometric Windows
Product Configuration: Rectangle
Family Type: Tradition Plus - Premium Series
Double -Hung
Exterior Color: Hartford Green
Exterior Trim: Integral Nailing Fin
Interior Finish: Primed
Jamb Depth: 4 9/16"
Glass Type: Low -E with Argon
Preserve - Protective Film Reduces Clean-up Glass
*** An 8 percent volume discount has been applied to this
unit. ***
Base Price: CGEO $ 164.15
Primed Interior $ 12.92
$ 177.07 $ 177.07
$ 771.45
ITEM LOCATION
PRODUCT CODE UNIT PRICE CITY
FRAME SIZE
DESCRIPTION
Copy of OU04 Bathroom
MANUI-AL; I UKtt'<: Jr-LU-VVtN
Windows &
Primed Interior
Doors, The
(1) Special Size: Custom Size Screen(s)
Caradco
(1) Special Size: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
Collection
Product Dimensions:
Book Code: TCD -Custom Size
Rough Opening: 2' 10 5/8" x 7'23/4"
Exterior Finish: Aluminum Clad Exterior with AuraLast
Frame: 2'9 7/8" x 7'2"
Wood
Sash Opening: 2'8 1/2" x 7* 0"
Product: Double Hung Windows
Product Line: Tradition Plus - Premium Series
Sash Type: Standard
Product Configuration: Single Unit
Exterior Color: Hartford Green
Exterior Trim: Integral Nailing Fin
Scale: iiii, equals 1'
Interior Finish: Primed
Jambliner Color: White
Jamb Depth: 4 9116"
Glass Type: Low -E with Argon
Preserve - Protective Film Reduces Clean-up Glass
Screen Type: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
Screen Frame Color: Hartford Green
Hardware Type: Cam Lock(s)
Hardware Color: Chestnut Bronze
Double Hung Hardware: Block & Tackle Balance, Tilt
Latch
Finger Plow. With Finger Plow(s)
*** An 8 percent volume discount has been applied to this
unit. ***
QUOTE #:
Estimated Lead Time
Base Price: TCD3788
$
Custom Frame Width
$
Custom Frame Height
$
Primed Interior
$
(1) Special Size: Custom Size Screen(s)
$
(1) Special Size: Aluminum Mesh Screen(s)
$
PRETAX TOTAL
414.30
64.58
64.58
15.79
10.76
4.30
574.31
TOTAL
PRICE
$ 574.31
5,831.99
I
MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
OF SOUTH BEND & SAINT JOSEPH COUNTY
September 18, 2006
4`b Floor Council Chambers
County — City Building, South Bend, Indiana
Members Present: Lynn Patrick LP[President], Mary Jane Chase MJC[Secretary], Catherine Hostetler CH,
Martha Choitz MC, Joann Sporleder JS,[Architectural Historian], Jerry Ujdak JU, Tim Klusczinski TK,
Shawn Peterson SP [Legal Counsel]
Staff Present: Catherine Hostetler CH [Director], Amy Herdman AH [Asst. Director],
Others Present: Don Sporleder, Elizabeth Adey EA, Joan Downs•Krostenko JK, Jeff Nienhuis, Karen Padnos, Jim
McKnight, Bruce Kiawiter, Mike Buitenborp, George Enderle GE
Absent: Todd Zeiger TZ [Vice President] Linda Riley LR
I. CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL: Lynn Patrick called the meeting to order at 7:34pm
H. PUBLIC HEARING
A. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS
1. 1216 E Wayne North, CofA # 2006-0908
STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: This Colonial Revival home
was designed by H.R. Stapp and built by Whitcomb and Keller in 1925 and sold to Alta and
Cornelius Morris. Kurt and Tessye Simon purchased the home in 1948 and resided there until
1990. Mr. Simon was the president of Simon Brothers, now Clark Foods. The current owners
are Elizabeth and Mark Adey.
APPLICATION ITEMS: To install a privacy fence along their rear property line.
Guidelines: I The Environment, B. Building Site. Landscaaing and Accessories
Reouired:... Structures such as gazebos ... new walls... trellises and other similar structures shall be
compatible to the historic character of the site and the neighborhood and inconspicuous when
viewed from a public walkway. Recommended: New site work should be appropriate to the
existing surrounding site elements in scale, type and appearance....
RECOMMENDATION: Staff recommends approval. The fence will provide for a more
formal and finished appearance to the backyard's landscaping than its current exposure to the
neighbors' garages and unkempt backyards. The style complements the architectural style of the
house
Catherine Hostetler circulated photographs provided by the homeowner.
The Chair recognized the homeowner, Elizabeth Adey to speak, and asked the homeowner to
limit her remarks to five minutes or fewer.
LP: Do you have any additional comments?
EA: No, all that I want is a privacy fence, as our neighbors tend to throw their yard waste behind
their garages, which is my backyard. Rather than cause a neighborhood disturbance, as my
husband wanted to drag it back into their yard, but I would not let him. I'd like to clean it up.
TK: Could the homeowner please state her name and address for the record?
EA: Elizabeth Adey, 1216 E Wayne Street North.
LP: Thank you. The chair will now recognize commissioners with questions.
MJC: Are there any other fences in the neighborhood.
EA: My neighbor to the east has a chain link fence, but that's the only fence. We don't like the
look of that fence so we've planted a certain variety of arbor vitae.
LP: Any other questions?
JS: Is this picture...
EA: I can't see which one you have.
JS: I know you can't, but it's all covered with green vines.
EA: I don't know which one you have, but there is a garage that's all covered in vines. In the
summer time everyone asks me what it is because you can't tell what it is underneath there, but in
the wintertime you can see that it's a brick garage. Some of the pictures are from behind our
garage, where the neighbors throw all the trash. The other just has a lot of weeds, and bricks
and other things all thrown back there.
JS: So, as in this picture, your fence will fix it so that you don't look at all this?
EA: Right, it will just do that, and then we'll landscape in front of it
JS: on your side. .
EA: Just for ourselves, right.
JS: Is there an alley back there?
EA: No.
JS: Where is the neighbor's debris going?
EA: One neighbor has bushes, and it's going behind the bushes which is the back of my garage,
and stacked up the back of my garage, and the other, well, it's in their yard, but it's the back of
their garage which is open to my yard.
JS: So the fence actually is a boundary line fence?
EA: Yes, it will cross the boundary, and then we'll landscape in front of it. Right along the
property line.
LP: Any other commissioner questions?
JU: How tall is it going to be?
EA: Six feet, the standard height. Six is what they told me. Standard size.
LP: The chair will now open this to public hearing. If there is any member of the public who
wishes to speak on the matter? Seeing none, I move on.
LP: Is there any additional...? Checking with legal counsel, no input there. I'd like now to
entertain a motion on whether or not to approve the C of A.
JS: I move to approve the Certificate of Appropriateness # 2006-0908, 1216 E Wayne Street
North as presented.
JU: Second
LP: All in favor? (Ayes heard) Opposed? (Silence) With no opposition the motion carries.
Moved: JS Second: JU Vote: 7-0 Unanimous
EA: Thank you very much.
LP: Thank you. Next up will be the Certificate of Appropriateness for 710 Park Avenue.
2. 710 Park Avenue, CofA #2006-0908-A
STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: This Eclectic Italianate was
built for Mary Chapin Anderson and Andrew Anderson between 1875 and 1877. Four
generations of the Anderson-DuShane family lived in this house until 1962.
APPLICATION ITEMS: To install single unit all wood aluminum clad exterior with AuraLast
double hung JELD-WEN replacement windows from Home Depot.
Standards and Guidelines for Chapin Park: II Existing Structures, C Windows and Doors,
Required: Original windows and doors shall be retained including sashes, lintels, stills, shutters,
decorative glass .... When deteriorated beyond repair they shall be replaced with units and trim
resembling the original. Recommended: Wood storm windows....to match the original should
be used but should not damage existing frames. If new sashes ... are installed, the existing or
original materials... should be used. Prohibited Original doors, windows and hardware shall not
be discarded when they can be restored and reused in place.
RECOMMENDATION: Mr. Enderle has submitted two proposals for these windows. One
for the replacement of the windows and the other is for the restoration of the windows. The
house has all of the original windows. If Mr. Enderle is replacing the entire window system, then
staff does not recommend approval. If Mr. Enderle's intention is to have storm windows made to
order since the house currently does not have storm windows and the original windows repaired
then staff recommends the restoration approach as it preserves more of the original fabric of this
significant, land marked home.
Catherine Hostetler circulated photos and plans previously unavailable due to technical
difficulties with the HPC copier.
The Chair recognized the homeowner, George Enderle to speak, and asked the homeowner to
limit his remarks to five minutes or fewer.
SP: Maybe we should clarify with the homeowner... what exactly are they asking, are they asking
for approval for two proposals, one as an alternative ,all for one, or all for the other? It's very
difficult to understand what question is being presented to the Commission.
From Mark 746-749 on tape, all conversation is inaudible. Cause unknown.
LP: The chair recognized the homeowner/presenter to approach the podium for his presentation
not to exceed the five minute rule, please.
GE: Good evening, my name is George Enderle, and I am the proud owner of the Anderson
House. I've spent about two months studying what we can do to fix the problem of our windows
and was very glad to have the help of Wayne Doolittle, a specialist from Home Depot, from my
carpenter and also from an architect from Notre Dame who works especially with windows. I
think that there are three goals which I would like to achieve. First, to maintain the appearance
of the house as it is today, but to keep it as it is. Second, to improve the quality of the windows,
and third to increase the quality of living inside the house. I checked the first option of
restoration and that means to remove the windows and the glass. Some are broken to repair the
window and replace the glass and to repair the window frame, and replace the frame and window
with storm windows. That's quite a long process and I also got some valuable information about
storm windows. If storm windows are made of pine wood, they won't last. If they are made of
metal then they do not insulate enough. It is necessary to open storm windows from the inside -
when we use the second floor. The wood frame of a storm window is relatively broad for those'
windows which can be taken out from inside. I asked my carpenter who has just replaced the
storm windows of the Innisfree Bed and Breakfast here on Colfax, and he says that they are ten
years old, but are junk and had to be replaced. So, my proposal with regard to replacement
means to remove the window with glass, and to install the replacement windows. The estimates
that Igave in my letter are not quite correct because in the meantime Ifound out that the
restoration per window will cost about $750.00. And the replacement per window will be also be
$750.00 or maybe $700.00. I think that with replacement windows, I can achieve all three of my
goals which I stated. There is no change of appearance, and the house never had storm windows.
I have a photo of the house forty or fifty years ago, and there are no storm windows on the house.
So, it would be a change to put storm windows in. My solution would be to improve the quality of
the windows by using the aluminum clad which would last for twenty years guaranteed, with
(unknown) filled with argon. It also improves the quality of living inside except that the light that
I have inside will (unknown) and it will be easier to open the windows in summer and in winter
time. That's why having studied both options seriously, I would like to ask you to permit me to
put replacement windows in.
LP: The chair recognizes commissioners with questions.
MC: Question unintelligible.
GE: No, that is a picture from Wayne Doolittle from a company in Iowa.
MC: What we don't seem to have here, in my estimation, is an understanding of...the square feet
of glass and trim should be identical to what you have in there now. If they've wider
woodworking on the outside, that will change the whole aspect of the windows. And we've seen
nothing like that as far as I know. Did we? That would tell us that whatever it is that you want to
order that it will look exactly like it does now... in every window. There are many companies that
do exactly that, that copy them exactly. They'll still have all of those features that you're talking
about wanting, to open the windows and everything else. But what you do have to make sure, and
there area lot of them that are very very good at this. But, I don't see how I can vote on this
3
because there's nothing here that tells me that these will look exactly like the current do when
you get them in.
GE: From outside, the frame will remain exactly the same. From inside, we put in the
replacement windows, and the color is exactly the same as it is outside. You will not see any
change from outside.
MC: Are you saying that you're going to leave all of these windows in, and put another window
inside it?
GE: We keep the frame from outside as it is exactly. And from inside, it's the same... it's a new
window but with the same frame and the same square inches. From outside, we don't want to
touch anything.
JS: Inaudible from mark 796-798 on tape. So what we don't have are the dimensions of the
original. The only thing that was not understood here ... (unintelligible)...
GE: I really want to guarantee you that from outside; I want the windows and the frame to look
exactly as they look now, no changes. And I ... it is very important; I have looked at this house
hundreds of times...
From mark 807-812 on tape, conversation is inaudible. Those speaking stepped away from
their respective microphones.
LP: While they're discussing that, for the sake of everyone present, I'd like to point out that the
certificate of appropriateness is for a single unit, all wood, aluminum clad exterior ... I think that
we have a failure to communicate.
AM May I remind the commissioners that no part of that conversation is being recorded for the
record? That will make the minutes incomplete.
From mark 814-820 on tape, conversation is inaudible.
LP: You have three more minutes.
From mark 821-826 on tape, conversation is inaudible
LP: We are back to our regular portion of our meeting after a brief sidebar. Joann, are you
clear, do you have a brief comment?
JS: Because of a lack of understanding of the very well presented cross section detail of the
window, of the replacement window which has the insulated glass, it would appear that the
replacement window, if I understand this drawing correctly, and I'm not sure that I do, that the
replacement window would more accurately replicate the appearance of the original window
than putting in the storm window. It is quite clear from the drawing that the storm window would
involve two things that are not original, in that the width of the current frame would be wider
than the original... trails off to inaudible.
LP: I would also like to ask Wayne Doolittle our preservation specialist who has been onsite, if
you have a brief comment that you'd like to make in this regard.
WD: This is a really d ffcult thing to assess, what I would like to see... trails off to inaudible.
From mark 842-848 on tape, conversation is inaudible. Cause unknown.
LP: We all want a good outcome and I'm looking at the staff report, you have a local landmark,
and when you bought it, it was a landmark. And professor you have outstanding credentials,
international business, and you are in one of the newest and largest of our historic districts, and
the eyes of the preservation world are upon us, and I sincerely want a positive outcome. One that
preserves the historic integrity and one that honors you and your commitment to preservation,
and yet is compliant to the standards guidelines as written. If there are no further comments...
SP: Just from the application its difficult... the question that you're asking the board to do is very
difficult with the information in the application doesn't seem to be a concise question, with the
n
evidence that they need to support it. The application is vague in regards to what you're asking
them to do. What you've done is put this commission which is a legal body in a very difficult
position to approve something in which the question presented doesn't necessarily dictate what
they approve. It's more of your testimony... that you're revising your application while you
speak, and that is very difficult position to put the commission in ... maybe ...inaudible—the
application should be withdrawn, and be revised to be a more concise question before the board.
GE: As I said I think that there are three objectives here, and one is to preserve the...
LP: I'm going to interrupt for a second here, you have stated that, and I understand that. We're
also under a time deadline and we've exceeded by several term our normal time deadline....
JS: I'd like to suggest, unless time is of the essence for you, that you prepare three cross sections,
similar to this, which would illuminate the three options that you're looking at. The original
cross section, including the trim, the inside, the outside what the cross section would look like
with storm windows, and what the cross section would look like with replacement windows, to the
extent that they can be measured, so that we can make a comparison. Trails off to inaudible.
LP: I'm going to suggest that we, as the counselor suggested that we should have this withdrawn,
clarified and resubmitted.
SP: As a body, you really can't ask that it be withdrawn, it must come from the petitioner. You
can deny it...
LP: I understand. Do you wish to withdraw your petition?
GE: May I ask... may I submit it again?
LP: By all means, at the next meeting that's in one month. And if...what is your time constraints
on this, are you planning any international travel?
GE: Actually yes, tomorrow I have to go to Shanghai.
LP: You have extensive Chinese connections in your extensive resume.
GE: In that case, I will withdraw my proposal and resubmit it with those three cross sections' in a
month.
LP: Where you planning on having this work done while you were in Shanghai?
GE: Well, I will be back pretty quickly. I think that I can manage that.
LP: I would also recommend that you work with Historic Preservation Commission so that when
it is resubmitted everything has the clarity that we can make an effective and legal ruling on it.
From mark 884-886 on tape, conversation is inaudible
LP: I would also recommend when you're back from Shanghai that you call the Commission and
let us know that you're back in town. We'll do everything that we can to move this forward.
GE: Thank you.
LP: Thank you so much for coming. I saw a raised hand in the audience.
JK: I'm Joanie Downs Krostenko, 849 Forest Avenue. I actually came with a statement that I
wanted to read apropos of the C ofA for 710 Park Avenue, which I would like to leave whether I
am allowed to read it or not. I do also wish to ask a question as a member of the audience. I
understand that the C ofA as written was somewhat vague or contradictory but even in the
audience, regardless of that contradiction, it was not clear to me whether or not it was a C ofA
for the restoration or replacement of the existing windows or regarding the addition of storm
windows. And I was just wondering if that could be cleared up, because it seemed like if he was
given the right to do replacement windows, then he wasn't going to need storm windows, is that
right? So is it appropriate for me to make my statement regarding this C ofA?
LP: Actually, I mentioned public hearing, and I didn't see anyone in the audience
JK: Yes, that was me. I don't think that you mentioned it actually.
LP: I thought that I had.
SP: I think that it was withdrawn before you got to...
LP: I'm very sorry then, please make your brief statement.
JK: Oh, olc Dear members of the Historic Preservation Commission and community, my name is
Joan Downs Krostenko, and 1 represent the Chapin Park neighborhood, where I am on the Board
for the Chapin Park Neighborhood and am on the Historic Preservation Liaison Committee for
5
the Chapin Park Historic District where I was one of the committee members which edited our
guidebook in 2005. I am also a board member of the Near Northwest Neighborhood which
encompasses the Chapin Park Historic District. I attend tonight's meeting requesting that the
Commission allow only the restoration of the original windows in the signature property at 710
Park Avenue. A great deal of scholarly ink has been spilled on the question of whether new
windows are better at heat conservation than properly reconditioned old windows. The
preservationist community is in agreement. There is no question that the same and even better
conservation can be obtained by reconditioning original windows. Therefore, as the Anderson
House at 710 Park is a signature property in an amazing state of preservation and thus a
treasure to the entire community, and as the standards to which such an exemplary property
should be held are clear in this case regarding preservation of existing features of such
incalculable value, and as the compromising on this fact in anyway sets a terribly dangerous
precedent in the Chapin Park Historic District and in the St. Joseph County, I respectfully
request that 710 Park Avenue be allowed only the restoration of its original windows. Those of
us who own historic homes know that we are caretakers; our properties were interesting,
beautiful and valuable before we inhabited them. It is our duty to, like Hippocrates, "do not
harm ". These buildings are not there only for our convenience and enjoyment. They are civic
treasures. Sometimes we chose what may seem a time consuming or painstaking approach to
their maintenance but this is because we understand our role and see ourselves clearly as only
one in what is hopefully a long line of lovers.of our heritage.
LP: How many more pages do you have?
JK: That's it.
LP: Thank you very much. The chair now closes the public portion.
SP: I would like to add that the speaker that just, because the application was withdrawn, when
the it is submitted again, your comments will not necessarily be apart of that record.
From mark 910-913 on tape, conversation is inaudible
B. LANDMARKS
1. 1013 East Jefferson — Third Reading
CH: 1013 E Jefferson is up for its third reading. We have all of the information that is needed;
we just need a motion to send it to Common Council.
LP: As the President of the Commission, I Lynn Patrick, would ask for a motion to send
1013 E Jefferson to the Common Council of the City of South Bend.
MJC: I move to send a favorable recommendation to the Common Council regarding the
designation of 1013 E. Jefferson as a Local Landmark.
TK: Second.
LP: As President I ask now for a discussion on the motion on the floor. Seeing none, I
will now call for a vote.
From mark 917-921 on tape, conversation is inaudible
LP: All in favor? (Ayes are heard) All opposed? (Silence) The motion passes by a vote of 6-0.
Great. President Patrick either misspoke or miscounted, the vote was 7-0.
Moved: MJC Second: TK Vote: 7-0 Unanimous
2. 853 Forest — Second Reading
CH: 853 Forest is up for its second reading, and I did send a letter to the homeowners, and they
did find their abstract. They stopped by the office today, but unfortunately we were out. And so
they're going to drop off the abstract tomorrow for our review. If you would like to postpone the
second reading until next month when we have the abstract and can do some more research on it
we can do that.
T
From mark 923-927 on tape, conversation is inaudible
MJC: I'll make a motion to postpone.
TK: Second.
LP: All in favor? (Ayes are heard) All opposed? (Silence) Motion carries.
Moved: MJC Second: TK Vote: 7-0 Unanimous
C. NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION
None on the agenda.
III. � REGULAR BUSINESS
A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
August 21, 2006.
From mark 930-933 on tape, conversation is inaudible.
Motion for approval recorded from notes.
Moved: JS Second: MJC Vote: 6-0 Unanimous, with 1 abstention —
TK abstained due to absence on 8/21.
TREASURER'S REPORT
CH: I have the location budget reports. -'
From mark 933-939 on tape, conversation is inaudible.
TK: I formally submit all documents, any questions?
LP: Moving on to the Committee Reports.
B. COMMITTEE REPORTS
1. President's Report
LP: I'll be brief in my .President's Report. I understand that we have a new revised list of people
for the advisory board. As we discussed at last meeting, we want to look over it .... trails off to
inaudible.
From mark 942-948 on tape, conversation is inaudible
CH: We did not contact anyone. We're not ready to contact anyone yet. Don't contact anyone on
your own.
LP: I'd like to reiterate that no commissioners should take it upon themselves to be contacting
anyone, though we are moving in that direction.
From mark 950 -forward on tape, conversation is inaudible — essentially to the conclusion of
the meeting.
2. Historic Districts
Because tape of meeting is inaudible printed copies of the report is being inserted in lieu of
verbatim conversation.
Submitted by MC, Committee Chair:
At the HPC Commission hearing in August 2006,1 suggested that the Commission might want to
look into the possibility that we might start inquiries to find if there was a viable neighborhood
interest in such an undertaking- that it might help the owners in their desire to continue to keep
their homes from commercial intrusions in the future, and from improper changes to the buildings
as they now exist.
7
However, since that time I have learned of a number of valid reasons why this is not the time to
begin such a task. There is reason to think the neighbors are interested to the degree necessary
for such work to begin, and the HPC staff is not in a position to devote the time and funds that
would be necessary to begin such a major project at this time. Therefore, I request that this idea
be brought before the HPC at a time which it might be more likely to succeed.
2. Correspondence
C. STAFF REPORTS
1. Director's Report — Catherine Hostetler
Distributed to Commissioners. Conversation inaudible.
2. Assistant Director's Report — Amy Herdman
Distributed to Commissioners. Conversation inaudible.
3. Legal Report — Shawn Peterson
Conversation is inaudible, no written report submitted.
IV. OLD BUSINESS
None discussed.
V. NEW BUSINESS
Conversation on tape is inaudible. Resolution included in minutes from printed copy submitted by
Commissioner Klusczinski.
A Resolution of the Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend and St. Joseph County, Indiana
in response to the recent South Bend Park Department budget proposal that has threatened the
"Potawatomi Greenhouses and the Ella -Morris and Muessel-Ellison Botanical Conservatories," their
botanical examples, collections, and their benefit to the City of South Bend.
Whereas the Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend and St. Joseph County, Indiana
convened on September 18, 2006 for its regular meeting in the 4`f' floor Council Chambers; County -
City Building
Now therefore, be it resolved, that the Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend and St.
Joseph County, Indiana as follows:
Section 1. That the City of South Bend and the Department of Parks and Recreation reconsider the
dismantling of the Greenhouses and the Lord and Burnham Conservatories located in Potawatomi
Park;
Section 2. That the City of South Bend and the Department of Parks and Recreation convene a round
table of specialists in the fields of heating and horticulture to determine any reasonable and economic
methods available to save these structures and their exhibits;
Section 3. That the City of South Bend and the Department of Parks and Recreation organize groups
of volunteers to serve in the various capacities needed to keep the Conservatories in operation and
open to the public;
Section 4. That the City of South Bend and the Department of Parks and Recreation explore other
avenues of fund raising, and that the admission fee of the complex be evaluated;
Section 5. That the City of South Bend and the Department of Parks and Recreation study the
detrimental impact to tourism, market appeal, and education;
Section 6. This resolution shall be in full force and effect from and after its adoption by the
Commission.
Moved: TK Second: JU Vote: 7-0 Unanimous
VI, HEARING OF VISITORS
Guest Don Sporleder was recognized to speak. Comments are inaudible.
ADJOURNMENT 8:36 pm
Moved: TK Second: MJC Vote: 7-0 Unanimous
0
Location Budget as of 09-30.2006
Note: Includes transactions after the last posted date of 06-30-2006.
Fund 001
County General for 01-01-2006 thru 09-30-2006
Loc 037 Historic
Preservation
Account
General GoVT.
Object
Description
11075
Deputy Director
000
General GoVT.
11309
Historic Preservation Admin.
000
General GoVT.
10000
Totalsfffffff►ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffflffff
21030
Office Supplies
000
General GovT.
22010
Gas Oil & Lubricants
000
General GoVT.
22120
Garage & Motor Supplies
000
General GoVT.
20000
Totals 111ftff►flfffffff►fffffffffftlttlfflfflfffffff
31070
Other Contractual Services
000
General GovT.
32020
Travel
000
General GoVT.
32050
Instruction & Training
000
General GoVT.
32053
Public Relations
000
General GoVT.
32200
Telephone
000
General GoVT.
32350
Postage
000
General GOVT.
33010
Publication Of Legal Notices
000
General GoVT.
WrZa17L 7 717 7
Saint Joseph County
Unencumbered
Unexpended
Appropriation
Encumbrance
Expenditure
Balance/Percent
Balance/Percent
30,000.00
0.00
22,615.12
7,384.88
7,384.88
24.62
24.62
36,050.00
0.00
26,344.26
9,705.74
9,705.74
26.92
26.92
66,050.00
0.00
48,959.38
17,090.62
17,090.62
25.88
25.88
1,750.00
315.56
945.50
488.94
804.50
27.94
45.97
1,000.00
0.00
379.76
620.24
620.24
62.02
62.02
700.00
0.00
166.94
533.06
533.06
76.15
76.15
3,450.00
315.56
1,492.20
1,642.24
1,957.80
47.60
56.75
61,092.60
0.00
40,096.32
20,996.28
20,996.28
34.37
34.37
700.00
0.00
385.43
314.57
314.57
44.94
44.94
800.00
0.00
250.00
550.00
550.00
68.75
68.75
2,871.00
0.00
1,057.24
1,813.76
1,813.76
63.18
63.18
160.00
0.00
12.00
148.00
148.00
92.50
92.50
2,660.00
0.00
1,932.87
727.13
727.13
27.34
27.34
500.00
0.00
105.60
394.40
394.40
78.88
78.88
10/02/2006 2:04 PM
Page 80
Location Budget as of 09-30-2006
Note: Includes transactions after the last posted date of 06-30-2006.
Fund 001 County General for 01-01-2006 thru 09-30-2006
Loc 037 Historic Preservation
Account
Object
Description
33100
Printing
000
General GovT.
37100
Auto Lease
000
General GovT.
39010
Dues & Subscription
000
General GovT.
39600
Refunds, Awards & Indemnities
000
General GovT.
39750
Data Processing
000
General GovT.
39980
Funds W/O Approp.
000
General GovT.
30000
Totals ..............................................
44250
Office Machines
000
General GovT.
40000
Totals .......................„.,,.,,.,.,.,.,,....,,
Location Totals .................................................
Investment Accounts
Transfer Accounts
Appropriation
8,528.00
500.00
750.00
0.00
1,500.00
0.00
80,061.60
800.00
800.00
150,361.60
Encumbrance
5,528.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
5,528.00
0.00
0.00
5,843.56
Expenditure
810.28
85.77
140.00
8,514.00
8.29
44,100.00
97,497.80
465.00
465.00
148,414.38
0.00
0.00
148,414.38
Unencumbered
Balance/Percent
2,189.72
25.68
414.23
82.85
610.00
81.33
(8,514.00)
0.00
1,491.71
99.45
(44,100.00)
0.00
(22,964.20)
(28.68)
335.00
41.88
335.00
41.88
(3,896.34)
(2.59)
Unexpended
Balance/Percent
7,717.72
90.50
414.23
82.85
610.00
81.33
(8,514.00)
0.00
1,491.71
99.45
(44,100.00)
0.00
(17,436.20)
(21.78)
335.00
41.88
335.00
41.88
1,947.22
1.30
Saint Joseph County
User ID ksobecki 10/02/2006 2:04 PM Page 81
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E
Potawat 0-m i
Ella Morris & -Muessel Ellison
Conservatories
STAKEHOLDERS* -MEETING-
MONDAY
EETINGMONDAY OCTOBER 16T" @ 5:15 PM
VBRIEN ADMINISTRATION CENTER
321 E WALTER STREET SOUTH BEND
*Stake hold er steyk-hoh/-der-noun
. 1. a person or group that has an investment, share, or
interest in something. THIS MEANS YOU!! SEE YOU THERE!
B4 South Bend Tribuna:IN
Elm trees return. to South ndjStre
Liberty
-are
them _in narrow _ tree lawns. all the trees will be killed by a
They're' -resistant tion d se ects introduced in -
saw The For elm informaii
elms resistant to
go�downto
for ny
Visit wwwrmatif
Dutch elm disease:
seiedp
breaking up the sidewalk."
He said elm trees also grow
n on the
more information on the American
.The Liberty elms are resistant
enough to Dutch elm disease
_
By SUE LOWE ' °
tall enough that you can easily
Liberty elm.
'
that the Elm Research Institute
7k-1une Staff Writer ` _s `
,.see Wer them T1iey also grow
: :: ' : ' `
will replace any tree that suc-
SOUTH BEND Wayne
Those first American Liberty
. park department, said he hasn't
cumbs to the disease.
Elms are big trees. They can
Doolittle-remembera being told
.elm' times -VK :planted W_$be
.planted' any elms because that
reach 100 feet in height
of a time when;iclu trees along -
Edgewater neighborhood and in-:
city doesn't have its own nursery
For: that reason; Pam Louks,
East Affeison Bo�ulevaid wei a s(k _. tiny. Voorde ,Palk � �n thy'; St ..
to grow .tines large enough. :.
the Indiana state urban forestry
big they made a 1 ropy actos�'
�Tgseph Rive; •=z" = • } : c ,—C -He saidlaiger trees are not on •
coordinator, recommends that
the street ..:. , :
Later more than`50 elms were,':t]ie
market in the area yet '; :.,'.
they not be planted under .or
Unfortunately, elm trees here
..
planted along Portage Avenue. - .. °'>,Scientists at several universi-
near -power lines.
were among -the 1.;100 .million
City forester Brent Thompson
ties are now starting the work of
The oldest known elm in the
American elms that succumbed
said there are also a bunch of lit-
trying to find a replacement ash
northeastern part of the country,
to Dutch elm disease beginning
tle ones in the city's nursery
like the replacement elms.
a survivor of Dutch elm disease,
in the 1930s.
When they're large enough,
.. Fortunately, scientists at Cor-
. is Herbie, in Yarmouth, Maine.
So when a grant that would
they'll be put on the street.
nell University started looking
Herbie was planted in 1775.
pay for planting of new Ameri-
Thompson hopes to be able to
for resistant elm trees early, back
The Liberty elms were named
can Liberty elms became avail-
replace ash trees that may be
in the 1930s, when Dutch elm
after"theLtberty'liee,"an elm tree
able in'' 2002, Doolittle urged
killed by emerald ash borers. • •'
disease was first found.
in Boston where two effigies were
South Bend officials to apply for
He said he planted many ash
According to information on
hung to protest the hated British
one.
trees before the first emerald ash
' the:'Elm_ Research Institute Web
_ Stamp Acton Aug. 14,1765.
Although he's a"pieservation
borers were found icrthe Detroit
site; six different cultivais.make
. As a last act of violence on
specialist with the South Bend
area. The insects have now been
up what is known as American
" their way out of town in August
Historic Preservation Commis-
found in Granger
Liberty elms.
1775, British soldiers cut down
Sion, Doolittle."said'he iecom-
Although_. Thompson hasn't
The institute ships different
the tree.
mended the trees for practical
yet found any city ash trees dam-
cultivars in each group it sells:
reason's; not beciu'se of their his=
" :aged by the insects; he figures its
That means each location gets
toric value. 3 a:.: ; . ` _
Gaming.
trees with slightly different ge-
Staff writer Sue Lowe:
°•heyy're red Ty__` good:.city
Itichaid Springer; landscape
Mishawaka
rietic makeups. :''`_ ::;..
And that, hopefully, means not
slowe0stiUnto.com
(574) 235-6557
trees; he.;said; .You can plant
supervisor with,the
:.�
,
Thursday, October 5;r�2006
Tribune Photo/SHAYNA BRESUI
Glenna Moore and Steve Cheak walk by newly planted elm trees
on Portage Avenue In South Bend. Both live In the near
northwest neighborhood.
DIRECTOR'S REPORT
OCTOBER 2006
SEPTEMBER 19 SR23 MEETING AT 5:45 AT GRANGER
SEPTEMBER 25 RICHARD DIESL' S ANALYSIS OF THE
CONSERVATORIES AND GROWING
HOUSES.
REPORT TO COMMON COUNCIL
COMMITTEE
IUSB/ PUBLIC PRESENTATION BY
MR. DIESEL
ATTENDED COMMON COUNCIL
MEETING
SEPTEMBER 26 1855 COURT HOUSE REVIEW WITH
JOHN EMBRICKSON.
SEPTEMBER 28-30 CORNELIUS O'BRIEN-MAIN STREET
CONFERENCE IN WABASH, IN.
OCTOBER 5 MEETING WITH INDOT CONCERNING
LEEPER PARK BRIDGE
MEETING WITH KRUPALI UPLAKER
OF NOTRE DAME CONCERNING NEW
PROJECT FOR HER CLASS IN 2007
OCTOBER 9 ATTENDED A 3PM MEETING IN THE
COUNTY -CITY BUILDING ON THE
POTAWATOMI GREENHOUSE
COMPLEX
OCTOBER 10 7PM MEETING WITH RIVER PARK
AT THE CONSERVATORIES. ALL
GRANT PROGRESS REPORTS SUB=
MITTED TO DHPA.
South Bend and St. Joseph County
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
227 WEST JEFFERSON BLVD.
SOUTH BEND, IN 46641-1830
Phone: 574-235-9798 Fax: 574-235-9578
e-mail: SBSJCBI?C@co.st-joseph.in.us
Lynn A. Patrick, President A Certified Local Government Catherine D. Hostetler, Director
City of South Bend, St. Joseph County and the HPC
Environmental Reviews:
2002
86
2003
94
2004
115
2005
249
2006 81 year to date September 30
Certificates of ADDrouriateness:
2005 80 City of South Bend 1 St. Joseph County
2006 85 City of South Bend 2 St. Joseph County year to date September 30
106 Reviews:
2006- year to date September 30
2 City of South Bend 7 St. Joseph County
INVENTORY
Structures in South Bend National Register Districts:
1,667 in City of South Bend 0 in St. Joseph County
Single Sites National Register Landmarks:
30 in City of South Bend 2 in St. Joseph County
Structures in Local Historic Districts:
749 in City of South Bend 0 St. Joseph County
Local Landmarks:
128 in City of South Bend 73 in St. Joseph County
1 Interim Protection; landmarking pending
1 Chapin Park Landmark in process
COMMISSIONERS
Mary Jane Chase (Secretary) Shawn E. Peterson, Attorney Gerald Ujdak
Martha Choitz Timothy S. Klusczinski (Treasurer) Linda Riley
Catherine Hostetler Joann Sporleder (Architectural Historian) Todd Zeiger (Vice -President)
STAFF APPROVALS: JULY 1 -SEPTEMBER 30, 2006
2006.0705
502 N. ST JOSEPH
REROOF
2006-0707
807 ASHLAND
DEAD TREE REMOVAL
2006-0710
1326 E. WAYNE N.
DEAD TREE REMOVAL
2006-0712
853 FOREST AVE
IN-KIND PORCH REPAIR
2006-0717
714 FOREST
DEAD TREE REMOVAL
2006.0720
706 PARK
IN-KIND REPAIR/STUCCO,FASCIA
2006.0719
519 RIVERSIDE
RE -ROOF
2006-0720A
2119 PORTAGE
RE -ROOF
2006-0721
1017 RIVERSIDE
IN•KIND FENCE REPLACEMENT
2006.0724
317 LAMONTE
IN-KIND STEP /WALKWAY REPAIR
2006.0726
1055 RIVERSIDE
DRIVEWAY REPAIR
2006-0808
1324 E. WAYNE S.
IN -HIND ROOF REPAIR
2006.0808A
209 HAMMOND
IN-KIND WALK REPLACEMENT
2006-0814
1704 E. WAYNE
DEAD TREE REMOVAL
2006.0816.
LEEPER PARK
DEAD/DYING TREE REMOVAL
2006.0822
424 MANITOU
IN -HIND PORCH REPAIR
2006-0825
2300 PORTAGE
IN-KIND REPAIRS/REPLACMENTS
20064828
1326 E. WAYNE N.
IN-KIND PORCH, STEPS REPAIR
2006.0830A
548 RIVER
IN -HIND DOOR REPLACEMENT
20064830
840 PARK
IN -HIND WINDOW REPLACEMENT
2006-0831
LEEPER ISLAND
DEAD TREE REMOVAL
2006-0901
827 PARK
IN-KIND PORCH REPLACEMENT
20064905
616 N. ST. JOSEPH
RE -ROOF
2006.0906
830 N. MICHIGAN
LIGHT REPLACEMENTS
2006-0911
318 W. NAVARRE
DEAD TREE REMOVAL
2006-0915
344 S.SUNNYSIDE
HAZARDOUS TREE REMOVAL
20064918
7 08 N. ST. JOSEPH
RE -ROOF
2006-0921
1021 RIVERSIDE
DEAD TREE REMOVAL/
WALKWAY REPLACEMENT
2006-0926
410 MANITOU
IN•KIND REPLACEMENT OF
REPLACMENT WINDOWS
Assistant Director's Report
HPC Meeting —10-16-2006
■ Prepared HPC Meeting minutes of 09.18.2006
■ Met with Tenn Laurent of Econ and Community Development to discuss "Re -Use
Ready" properties within South Bend.
■ Attended Cornelius O'Brien Conference in Wabash, Indiana.
■ Met with Mikki Dobski to discuss City Celebration 2007.
■ Attended Redevelopment Commission meeting 10/6/2006.
■ Applied for "My Hometown Helper" grant.
■ Established correspondence with Herb Society of America regarding grant
funding for Leeper Park Herb Garden restoration.
■ Met with Commissioner Dieter regarding Potawatomi situation.
■ Maintained contact with Richard Died.
■ Reviewed City Plan Implementation Chapter.
■ Attended Code Enforcement hearing regarding 319 N. William.
■ Subsequently prepared correspondence to owners of 319 N William regarding
the results of the Code Enforcement hearing.
■ Began preparation of "Re -Use Ready" inventory of downtown businesses.
■ Created plan for "Make a Difference Day Michiana".
■ Took receipt of it proof for A Souvenir of South Bend calendar.
■ Met with Marilyn Thompson of Center for History regarding proof.
■ Edited and returned proof for revisions.
■ Met with Jean Dewinter regarding Potawatomi situation.
■ Began production of HPC Holiday Greeting cards.
■ Attended Stakeholders meeting with Parks Department.
-alwilauvo-m-aulerc
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
OF SOUTH BEND AND ST. JOSEPH
COUNTY
WILL RECONVENE AT
3:30 P.M.
SATURDAY9 OCTOBER 219 2006
•
125 SOUTH T,AFAYEl-u'-uE
.. .. , `W,MISSIOhfgJ
SOU Tif It,
AGENDA OF THE.;OCTOBER 16 2006
4
0
,..� COMMISSION MEETING ey c
e .
1
' 1865
Regular Meeting 4th Floor Council Chambers
County -City Building
MONDAY, October 16, 2006 7:30PM
3: 3
'� I. CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL
II. PUBLIC HEARING
A. CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS
1. 710 Park Avenue COA# 2006-1005A
v
M� B. LANDMARK
1. 853 Forest -Second Reading
H
C. NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION
III. REGULAR BUSINESS
U : A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
September 18, 2006
- Z B. TREASURER'S REPORT
H -
Location Report
C. COMMITTEE REPORTS
4 1. President's Report:
W 2. Committee Reports
ri
Y
_ D. STAFF REPORTS:
=I 1. C of A Approvals; Correspondence;
A. Director's Report
B. Assistant Director's Report
2. Legal
[••I j IV. OLD BUSINESS
-"�
IV NEW BUSINESS
F �
a• �
South Bend and St. Joseph County
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
227 WEST JEFFERSON BLVD.
SOUTH BEND, IN 46601-1830
Lynn A. Patrick, President
October 17, 2006
Mr. Georges Enderle
710 Park Avenue
South Bend, IN 46616
Re: COA #2006-1005-A
Dear Sir,
Phone: 574-235-9798 Fax: 574-235-9578
e-mail: SBSJCBPC@co.st-josephin.us
A Certified Local Government
Catherine D. Hostetler, Director
The Historic Preservation Commission of South Bend and St. Joseph County will meet at 710 Park Avenue at 2:00 in the
afternoon of Saturday, October 21, 2006 concerning the installation of the proposed windows in COA#2006-1005-A. The
purpose of this visit will be to conduct an onsite investigation to gather additional facts that the Commission believes is
necessary to appropriately evaluate this Certificate of Appropriateness.
At 3:30 p.m. the Commission will reconvene its public meeting at 125 S. Lafayette, the Office of the Historic Preservation
Commission Conference Room, to consider your Certificate of Appropriateness. We invite you to attend as we may have some
additional follow-up comments or questions for you. The Commission may approve or deny the Certificate of Appropriateness
at that meeting.
Thank you for allowing the Commissioners to study this Application for a Certificate of Appropriateness at your residence.
Please contact me at 235 9798 with any questions or concerns that you may have.
Sincerely,
Catherine D. Hostetler,
Director
cc: Commissioners: L. Patrick, M. Choitz, J. Sporleder, T. Zeiger, T. Klusczinski, L. Riley, M.J. Chase, G. Ujdak
Chapin Park Liaisons: Joan Downs-Krostenko, Susan Youens
Shawn Peterson, Counsel for the Historic Preservation Commission
Enclosure
CO,,UMISSIONERS
Mary Jane Chase (Secretary) Shawn E. Peterson, Attorney Gerald Ujdak
Martha Choitz Timothy S. Klusczinski (Treasurer) Linda Riley
Catherine Hostetler Joann Sporleder (Architectural Historian) Todd Zeiger (Vice -President)
.00,
Lynn Patrick: This is a reconvening of our Octoberl6, 2006. Today's date is October
21, 2006. We again speak to Certificate of Appropriateness 2006-1005A.
We will do a roll call: Lynn Patrick, present, Martha Choitz, present, Tim Klusczinski,
present, Catherine Hostetler, present, Joann Sporleder, present, Shawn Peterson, present.
We also have the homeowner present. Please state your name. Georges Enderle, present
We also have from the neighborhood.... Susan Youens.
Lynn Patrick: We have just returned from looking at the property; and I have left my
little guidebook on Robert's Rules of Order out in the car. I will return to the format that
we usually follow which is letting the homeowner make any additional comments which
I think by the very nature of this meeting will be very brief.
Georges Enderle: Yes, It will. Well, I just want to say that I appreciate that you took so
much time to come and to see my house and have a first look at the problems.
Lynn Patrick: Thank you. Now do the Commissioners wish to speak who have been
looking at it just now?
Shawn Peterson: Now I think what would be good would be to go around and do a
summary of what said, the discussion. We would move actually to the discussion
portion. We have already accomplished the public hearing and the presentation. We're
considering the additional evidence; we'll have discussion of additional evidence and we
can proceed as far as action.
Lynn Patrick: Great. Then I will turn over the discussion portion at least at this juncture
to Tim who has spent a lot more time looking at the window, measuring and who was at
the house just recently.
Tim Klusczinski: I think that it would be important to make the distinction that this
particular C of A discusses ten windows and we spent quite a bit of time on four of them
in the bay window area. Upon inspection and in your company I wanted to point out that
of the illustrations that Professor Enderle submitted, they basically on discuss one
window example's dimensions. That is important so that we don't understand that we are
looking at a number of different windows. Wayne and I took all of the diagrams and
broke them down under the classification to view them in. Professor Enderle submitted
five drawings that depict the existing windows under the current conditions, five
drawings that modify the existing window openings with storm window that had been
drawn in; and finally five drawings that suggest that the replacement openings, or rough
openings for that particular window, have the Jeld Wen solution installed. A few
problems that I was able to pick out at the site with reference to the example that was
submitted and the dimensions that relate to the particular openings that we were looking
at. The sill nose here on the existing window print only calls for a width of 7/8 of an inch
and we did find at the site that it was approximately two inches which could impose a
different perspective to the reveal and the shadow line for this example. So that should be
modified, since the diagram for the existing conditions does not make us aware of that.
Other consideration should also be given to the fact that a correct profile of the existing
C.,
sill is pointed out but the Jeld Wen solution imposes a different shape, cross section for
its sill. It attempts to match a 1 7/8s nose to something that was two inches, which
however was 7/8s on the original illustration; however the shape is significantly different
when seen from the side. A large difference that in the existing condition established by
the photograph of 710 Park Ave dated October 6, 2006 I want to point out that the
existing windows have an extended sill, that I want to call "sill ears", on each side of the
window sash line. That's this little area right here, probably a couple of inches on each
side. The Jeld Wen solution does not impose that change and are cut off flush with the
jamb, flush with the side jambs so it remains to be seen how that particular feature would
be reconciled with the existing conditions since the Jeld Wen solution also proposes an
aluminum cladding. So if that was to be amended I don't know if that the solution
presented to us calls for that. The site investigation called into question my assessment of
windows bearing a 4 9/16 jamb width would fit into the existing opening that seem to be
6 3/a inches. So therefore, it should be noted that they can be modified; but it would
involve jamb extensions, fabricated and installed on the inner surface of the jambs as they
would come in from Jeld Wen and a stool extension would have to be amended also to
bring it in to the living area. I would be happy to take anyone's questions as I thumb
through my notes. Professor Enderle did establish that the very long window that is also
in view from the bay window interior zone is not called for replacement at this point and
should be noted. That's all I have, without any questions.
Lynn Patrick: Okay. Shawn I am not sure how to proceed from this point.
Shawn Peterson: I guess there are other individuals who inspected the property. Were
there any other findings based on that they would like to add to the record for discussion
or.
Tim Klusczinski: There is an incidental finding that being that there were 10 windows
called for in the C of A, 4 of those ten are straight top windows and 6 of them existing
upstairs in Professor Enderle's house are arch top. There is no drawing here in the C of A
submission that remedies, or I guess conveys, some replacement that he intends for the
arch top windows.
Joann Sporleder: So, in that regard may I suggest with Counsel's approval that we
separate this application into two parts: one concerning the four windows and the other
concerning the six arched windows on the second floor.
Shawn Peterson: It has been suggested that this application be dissected to include, to
consider only the four windows, and then the remaining six at a different time. That
approval would have to be, actually, from the applicant himself amending his C of A to
offer only the four this time and to withdraw as to the ten, or the other six, I apologize,
and that is something that the applicant would have to do, and so, if your desire that, we
can pose that to the applicant.
Georges Enderle: Well that is something that I can do immediately.
2
N
Shawn Peterson: So you would propose to dissect and actually and actually seek
approval for the four windows...
Georges Enderle: Yes
Shawn Peterson: and the remaining six you would withdraw. for as to...
Georges Enderle: For further study, yes
Shawn Peterson: ... for further study. I guess a motion should be to accept the amended
application and to consider then the four versus the six.
Joann Sporleder: I so move.
Catherine Hostetler: Ok, Joann has moved. Do we have a Second?
Shawn Peterson: A motion has been made. Is there a Second? Motion dies for fail of a
Second. The application currently in front of this Board is for the ten. They have not
accepted the second application. Therefore you would have to submit a new application
for only the four, if you so desire, to be considered at the next meeting. The only way for
them to consider it in due course would have been to accept the amended application and
they have not done so. So, that is the rules' procedure for it, it would have to be
submitted and then considered at the next meeting. The deadline, I believe for a new
Certificate of Appropriateness would be at the November...
Catherine Hostetler: ...November, I don't have a calendar... November 8.
Shawn Peterson: November 8.
Georges Enderle: One or two proposals?
Shawn Peterson: Yes, one proposal for just the four...
Georges Enderle: One for Four and One for Six...
Shawn Peterson: Yes, the one for six you would have to submit at that time and separate
them or you could do the six for a subsequent meeting.
Georges Enderle: Yes
Shawn Peterson: You can dissect those out...
Georges Enderle: November V....
Catherine Hostetler: November 8
Shawn Peterson: November 8. It has to be to the commission by November 8 for the
November meeting.
Georges Enderle: The form, the same form that I filled out for the last time and the
previous time?
Shawn Peterson: Right. Currently the original Certificate of Appropriateness is the one
submitted for the last meeting is the one before this Commission is still being considered.
Then having that motion failed, the point would be at this point to either look for
additional discussion... is there any additional discussion that the Commission wishes to
have regarding this Certificate of Appropriateness?
Joann Sporleder: I would like to ask for further clarification if Professor Enderle wants
to withdraw the whole thing, can he do that at this time?
Shawn Peterson: Yes. You may withdraw your entire certificate of appropriateness at
this time, if you'd like to -if not, they would continue to act upon it. And they must act
upon it within 45 days. If they deny it here, then you would have the right to appeal that
denial irrespective of whether or not you've submitted another certificate of
appropriateness. So you may withdraw it and in that way they won't deny it or you may
allow them to consider it, allow them to approve it or deny it; and then, of course if it's
approved you can continue and if its denied you have the opportunity to appeal that then
within thirty days to the Common Council.
Georges Enderle: And to withdraw, I would have forty-five days
Shawn Peterson: If you withdraw it, you would just submit your new one at the, for the
November meeting. So you can withdraw it completely or you can have them continue to
consider the one that is current for all ten of the windows and knowing that number one:
they will either approve it or they would have to deny it within forty five days. So you
would have one or the other, and if it were denied then you would have to opportunity to
appeal, if it's approved, obviously, then you have the ability to move forward.
Georges Enderle: In other words I have some time, some days, to think about it.
Shawn Peterson: No, they can act right now. If they approve it right now, you know
they can do it, or they can deny it right now. I guess that your suggestion, the point is,
you have the opportunity to let them continue on it or just remove it all together to
prevent them from denying it, if you so desire.
Tim Klusczinski: I have a question. If Professor Enderle withdraws his proposal,
potentially would that put into question any findings that we had concerning this same
issue for the next time around and would that mandate that we would have to make
another trip to his premises to investigate and do an inside inspection, or on-site
inspection?
4
Mir
Shawn Peterson: No. You would not do another on site inspection. You would just re-
enter in the same evidence as you had again. You can do that at the next meeting, saying
that you have inspected these same windows this is the condition and, or, ask if any
conditions have changed from when you originally inspected it. So, obviously one month
from now there's no real difference. If you waited six months, you may want to
reconsider whether you want to go out there. You don't have to go out at all to do this
inspection, but you did anyway, and you can re-enter that evidence at the next
opportunity.
Martha Choitz: It's my been my feeling and it hasn't changed much that from the day
that I read the first COA that there wasn't much thought given to the historic problem
we've got here, we don't like historic problems, .we like to solve them and get them out
of the way. But there has been very little talk about saving the material of the house and
because it was built by a number of people working on it some of the windows are not
like the other windows and that's part of the house. That is the way it should be. And the
fact that we are not looking into that aspect of it, I think is a very wrong-headed idea.
That isn't what we are here for. We are to keep the material of that house as true to its
original way of being and certainly most of the things that we saw were because there .
were actual people working those windows and at different times and they don't all work
the same way. And they'll always be differences in them and that is what makes them
more intriguing to more people. When we begin to lose that, and I am talking about the
Commission as a whole, in all of St. Joe County going like that, there won't be the
interest in these places anymore, because they will have been tampered with to the point
that it is very evident that that is happening with people that really understand historic
preservation as it should be. I don't mean to throw any kind of problems in anybody's
way, I just don't think that the thing was researched enough to find people that
understood that problem to get their opinion on it and let them have the time to think
about it as a carpenter in 1870, wasn't it, at the time that the building was built. And, I
have been here for a good portion of that time, and, it isn't that I love that house at all,
that I love that aspect of the whole that whole area. It was a very important one
historically here and to South Bend as a whole. And that was the time, Mr. Chapin's
daughter built that place, and, maybe the one next door, anyway, they were both built by
Chapin kids, back in the 1870s and that is part of their charm. And really bothers me to
just ignore all that when that it what we're here for, is to try to keep those patches, and so
on, true enough so that people who would walk in there later to buy it from you or
anyone would know and treasure the fact that it is still natural and not just some
manufacturer's idea of setting a window in there that will undoubtedly will work, that
you'll be able to see through it and everything else but it won't be part of the fabric of the
house. And I think that we did not address that enough. I think that it needs to have a bit
more research done, it doesn't take a whole lot. I have been working on windows on
buildings here from the old Court House to, you talk about it, to the years that SouthHold
was doing things and moving houses and taking care of Tippecanoe Place and all of that I
have been through all of that. And our upper most feeling about it is that we have to
continue to honor the fabric of the building and that is what I want to leave with you. I
don't know how you can shorten that up, so that it will mean anything.
Catherine Hostetler: I would like to reiterate Martha's sentiment about the original fabric
of the house. I think those windows, in my opinion, can be restored using the techniques
that we have available, what we have learned in workshops, what we have sent our staff
down to, to learn the skills to do that. I truly believe that these windows can be made
weather tight using as much of the original fabric of those windows as is there today,
having them re -glazed and then exploring the options of interior versus exterior storms.
The argument for using storm windows on the interior because your want to have
ventilation through the house is certainly understandable but usually you don't use storm
windows in the winter time in a breakfast nook and want ventilation at the same time
So have storm windows on the interior, just for that time of year, I don't think is going to
be that invasive and shouldn't stop you from getting the air dynamics in your house
working properly. So you could use, as a compromise, interior storms, just in that
particular area and maintain those original windows. I also think that you may have other
issues going on, that aren't just the windows. I think that there have been foundation
issues on that bay, because you can see on that bay some of the molding isn't quite level;
that there might be some other issues going on here that putting new windows in, isn't
going to solve that problem. In fact you might be opening up a huge can of worms and
have take out all of those new windows and rebuild that whole bay area. So I think that
we will really need to explore this after seeing the structure with the possibility that there
might be some foundation issues. Otherwise what you may be doing, Professor, is
compounding a problem that needs to be addressed at a more fundamental level. I would
call for not only restoration of the windows but investigation into the foundation of the
house so that when you do come up with a solution it's the best one for you and the best
one for the house.
Joann Sporleder: May I speak? I would like to address some of the things that Catherine
brought up. One, there is a lot of suppositions in that and supposes. I think that this is an
inappropriate time to think what might happen if he allowed to do what he is proposing to
do. Also neither Tim nor Catherine's suggestions of what to do, if Tim made suggestions,
of how to solve the problem of a single pane windows which are very uncomfortable to
live next to. Everybody knows and we all acknowledge that the original windows can be
retro fitted in a sense, rebuilt and sustained so that the caulking works, the windows work
and all the rest of the things work. However, we are still stuck at that juncture with single
pane glass which is, as Wayne has said, no insulating characteristics, whatsoever. So
what we are suggesting, I think, here is that Professor Enderle despite two years of
investigating this problem of how to solve it, especially the four windows in the dining
room, that his living and living and trying to come to some understanding of how
he can best solve the other problem of making the house comfortable and livable without
stretching plastic over the windows every year or leaving it on year after year after year.
It's obvious that these windows, all of them, have led to a variety of attempts to make the
house more comfortable and energy efficient at some point. And, I think that we should
make more effort at understanding his solution to this problem. Unless, and I refer this to
Counsel, unless our standards actually say that the aluminum clad wooden windows are
not allowed. If our standards actually say that, then all this discussion is pointless.
Thank you.
IN
Lynn Patrick: I would like to interject that "Original windows and doors shall be
retained, including sashes, lintels; sills, shutters, decorative glass, pediments, hoods and
hardware. When deteriorated beyond repair, they shall be replaced with units and trim
resembling the original." I do not find these windows to be deteriorated beyond repair.
Joann Sporleder: But, they are asked to be replaced with material that resembles very
closely in terms of scale, size and dimensions the original.
Lynn Patrick: But they are not...
Joann Sporleder: They are deteriorated beyond repair of using them as insulated
windows. They are going to remain single pane windows which are still single pane
windows.
Tim Klusczinski: I have an issue with the fact that the examples that Professor Enderle
sponsors for replacement of the existing openings do not match in full profile with
respect especially the sill extension, sill -nose height, as well as the cladding, which would
distort them from the original in-kind material suggested by the architecture. It is also
speculation, and I would caution everyone, not to suggest that restoration for a single,
pane window would not have an extremely beneficial enhancement or provide Professor
Enderle with that because it has not been done and we don't know how much is air
infiltration and we don't know how much is thermal transfer. With that in mind, that it
seems like the most logical approach would be to suggest that since there is still a
restoration option, that replacements should not be ordered at this point or allowed and
that what can be done to the windows, be done, and then in light of what other
mechanical advancements that we have with respect to interior and exterior storms, that
those also could be proposed to enhance what I think will be a very cost effective and
wonderful solution using single pane glass.
Joann Sporleder: I'd like to stress the issue of exterior storms. They simply cannot be
allowed. On those windows they would be an historical inaccuracy, there is no indication
that those windows at any time in their past have ever had exterior storms or exterior
screens. Further, there is no place in the trim of the windows to install them without
putting them exteriorly or on top of the existing trim which architecturally is
unacceptable.
Lynn Patrick: I would like to add to what I hear what Commissioner Sporleder is saying
but I also would like to add to what Commissioner Klusczinski said, the possibility of
perhaps taking one of the windows and seeing if we could apply one of the solutions that
the Preservation Commission is suggesting make a test case out of one of the windows.
Joann Sporleder: So far the Commission hasn't suggested anything, except negative
comments.
Lynn Patrick: I didn't get that...
7
Joann Sporleder: So far the Commission hasn't suggested any practical solution, only
offered so far, negative comments.
Catherine Hostetler: I that exception with that. We have worked very hard to analyze
this situation and restoration is not a negative.
Joann Sporleder: There is no restoration involved with anything that anyone has said.
You can restore the windows but you have not solved the problem of the thermal
insulation and its therefore useable livability. One of the things this Commission has
tried to do over all the years is to find acceptable solutions to real -live problems. This is
not a museum, folks. This is a house that people live in and want to live in on a daily
basis. And unless we can provide adequate guidance for people to live in their houses, as
most people like to live in their houses, then we have totally failed.
Shawn Peterson: Is there any other discussion regarding the issue here?
Lynn Patrick: We have a member of the public that wishes to make a comment.
Shawn Peterson: That is within your discretion, obviously. You are past the public
hearing portion.
Lynn Patrick: We are past.
Shawn Peterson: I guess, a couple of things, one I guess an opportunity to the applicant,
"Do you wish to allow them to consider your certificate of appropriateness or withdraw it
at this time? Would you like for them to go ahead and proceed"
Georges Enderle: I am willing to withdraw it.
Shawn Peterson: You wish to withdraw it?
Georges Enderle: Yes, I need some days to think about it and then to think about the
proposals I am going to make and I also would like to have the right to invite a specialist,
a specialist with windows at Notre Dame who restores hundreds of windows and I will
discuss the issue with him and my solution. So I would like to have him here so that we
have another point of view. And then I also want to second what you (Martha Choitz)
have said is very close to my heart. You know, that I studied history quite a lot and
history does not mean just applying technical solutions. It is to understand the mind of
the people who lived in the house and who constructed the house, etcetera. I mean that's
why I personally feel that to place storm windows on those windows as they have been
for decades and decades would be a violation of the historical sense. That can discussed, I
withdraw this and I will think about it and see if I want to submit two proposals; one for
four windows, which I think that is an easier path, and one for the six windows. And also
have your permission to invite Tony Polotto from Notre Dame.
Catherine Hostetler: What we would like to do is before you submit another proposal
that when you work with your architect from Notre Dame that you include members of
the Commission to work with you so that this thing can be crafted in such a way so that it
will succeed.
Georges Enderle: Well, I would like to have him here, right here at the table. I don't
think he has much time to meet some hours with us, I don't think. Probably he would be
willing to. be here at the table. Because as far as I know, when I asked him about single
glass or two glass windows, he clearly stated that the insulation with two glasses was
better than with one glass.
Catherine Hostetler: I think it would help if we were working with you. We would all
sit down together and try to solve this, resolve this problem in away that is satisfactory
rather than you going away from this meeting, setting up another meeting with somebody
else, addressing a problem and then coming back and then not having input from the
Commission before, this way we could have something that will succeed.
Lynn Patrick: It wouldn't have to be all of us. It could be Catherine, maybe Tim, maybe
Wayne, maybe Joann.
Georges Enderle: I am very suspicious that Mr. Polotto has the time. He is running
around the world twenty-four hours.
Shawn Peterson: I think the suggestion is that when he comes over to your house to take
a look at them if it's possible to have one individual, either from the staff or the
commission, to come out; because I think that they could provide some guidance as far as
suppliers or techniques or that he may know, but not think when he looks at the windows.
And just be at the meeting when he comes to your house with enough people with their
expertise, someone should be able to make that meeting.
Professor Enderle and the Commission then engaged in a discussion of suppliers,
especially Marvin, and their work on the historical windows at Central High School and
storm windows at Leslie Choitz's house.
Lynn Patrick: Requests a motion for adjournment.
Joann Sporleder: So moved.
There was a discussion with Shawn Peterson and Professor Enderle that detailed what the
staff would provide in a letter. There was a discussion between Joann-Sporleder and
Shawn Peterson concerning the meaning of the Chapin Park District Standards and
Guidelines as they pertain to windows.
Tim Klusczinski: I second the motion.
The motion to adjourn passes unanimously.
6
Attest:
Mary Jan Chase Date
Secretary
Historic Preservation Commission
Of South Bend and St. Joseph County
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MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
OF SOUTH BENDI& SAINT JOSEPH COUNTY
October 16, 2006
4"' Floor Council Chambers
County — City Building, South Bend, Indiana
Members Present: Lynn Patrick LP[President], Mary Jane Chase MJC[Secretary], Catherine Hostetler CH,
Martha Choitz MC, Joann Sporleder JS,[Architectural Historian], Jerry Ujdak JU, Tim Klusczinski TK,
[Treasurer] Shawn Peterson SP [Legal Counsel], Linda Riley LR
Staff Present: Catherine Hostetler CH [Director], Amy Herdman AH [Asst. Director], Wayne Doolittle WD
[Preservation Specialist]
Others Present: Don Sporleder DS, Susan Youens SY, Joan Downs-Krostenko JD, Paul Hayden PH,
George Enderle GE
Absent: Todd Zeiger TZ [Vice President]
I. CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL: Lynn Patrick called the meeting to order at 7:34pm
II. PUBLIC HEARING
A. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS
1. 710 Park Avenue C of A# 2006-1005A
STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE/HISTORIC CONTEXT: This Eclectic Italianate was built for
Mary Chapin Anderson and Andrew Anderson between 1875 and 1877. Four generations of the
Anderson-DuShane family lived in this house until 1962.
APPLICATION ITEMS: Replace 10 windows -5 rectangle window and 5 windows with rounded top
sashes -with single unit, all wood, aluminum clad exterior, with Aura Last (20 year guarantee) double
hung, low -E with Argon, (Jeld Wen, see quote from Home Depot)
Standards and Guidelines for Chapin Park: H Existing Structures, C Windows and Doors,
Required. Original windows and doors shall be retained including sashes, lintels, stills, shutters,
decorative glass .... When deteriorated beyond repair they shall be replaced with units and trim resembling
the original. Recommended: Wood storm windows .... to match the original should be used but should
not damage existing frames. If new sashes ... are installed, the existing or original materials... should be
used. Prohibited: Original doors windows and hardware shall not be discarded when they can be
restored and reused in place. New window and door openings, which would alter the scale and proportion
of the building, may not be introduced. Inappropriate new window and door features such as metal, vinyl
or fiberglass awnings, hoods or aluminum insulating glass combinations that require the removal of
original windows and doors shall not be installed.
GROUP B LANDMARK STANDARDS B. Treatment: Treatment shall be defined as any change of
surface materials that will not alter the style or original form. Such improvements include reproofing,
glazing, or landscaping lawns and may involve a change that can potentially enhance or detract from the
character of the landmark. A treatment change of any surface whether on the landmark or in its
environment may require a Certificate of Appropriateness if it significantly alters the appearance of the
landmark ... The commission should review the proposed treatment for character and style consistency
with the original surfaces.
RECOMMENDATION: Staff does not recommend approval. Professor Enderle application is
requesting the complete removal of 10 windows and their replacement with modern double hung
windows with exterior aluminum cladding. The Chapin Park Standards and Guidelines prohibit "New
window and door openings, which would alter the scale and proportion of the building, may not be
introduced. Inappropriate new window and door features such as .... aluminum insulating glass
combinations that require the removal of original windows shall not be installed."
Professor Enderele is requesting that ten of his original windows be completely removed and replaced
with new windows having rectangular sashes. This would alter the appearance of the five windows with
arched top sashes. This is not allowed under the Standards and Guidelines for the district or in the Group
B Standards.
The complete removal of the rectangular windows located in the dining room area is too invasive as
modern replacement wooden sashes are available through Jeld Wen's Zap Pack product line.
Replacement windows are also available for the arched top windows but as a custom order from Jeld
Wen's product line; but these would be a complete replacement window system.
LP: Thankyou, does the homeowner wish to make any additional presentation?
TK: Madam President, I had one amendment to the Staff Report. It cites that it's a local
landmark, but is it also a National Landmark?
CH: No, its on the National Register ....
TK: but not a National Landmark?
CH: No, it's in a National Register District.
TK: Ok.
SP: For the record, I believe that this is a new Certificate of Appropriateness, so the owner
would have to put all information on this one into the record as the proceeding before would not
apply.
LP: You are correct, thank you.
GE: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I very much appreciate the opportunity to submit my
proposal again. And I think that it was helpful to have some weeks to study in depth, and
particularly to prepare those photographs and architectural drawings. These are three sets of
each type of drawings, so you should have about 17 pages along with my letter which I sent on
October 16 h. So, as it was said, I am proposing replacement windows and this is for the following
reasons: first, from outside, as it says in the guidelines, you have to preserve the appearance of
the house. And as I can show, from the historical record of my house, there were never storm
windows there. I checked with a specialist how we could install storm windows in the dining
room and it is feasibly not possible. It would be possible by placing or installing storm windows
on the exterior side, but there is not enough space to place it inside the frame. And I can show
that on the basis of those architectural drawings. Now, I appreciate that our Inspector, Wayne
Doolittle, also investigated with Home Depot and Jeld-Wen to find what alternative could be
found. He's proposing Zap pack that means the same quality as those premium windows that I'm
proposing but without the single unit. So, the zap pack means the two glass low E argon gas
windows- exactly the same, but without the single unit. That poses a problem because my
windows are not all rectangular. If we'd have to place those zap packs into a non -rectangular
frame, then it is a problem. Moreover, it was said that the arched windows... that we could find a
different solution for the arched windows. On the second floor that's also not possible because
the frame is not square it's arched. And uh, so I also measured the glass, the surface of the glass,
to know what would be the difference between the existing windows now and the replacement
windows and I came out that the difference is less than one tenth of one percent of the surface
would be bigger. That means that f 1 place those Jeld-Wen windows in, there's basically the
same face surface. So, it's not a reduction of the surface. I also, well, probably we will discuss
those different options, but I was told that if they are clad aluminum, the color that can not be
changed. Well, I don't consider a change of my house because this is a historic landmark, and if
the painting should be changed in the next twenty or thirty years, I will put all of the windows in
the basement, and they can be pulled out and used again. Sd, I see a difficulty in that argument.
I mean the main point is that the solution of storm windows is technically not feasible. You can
tell me that the guidelines should require that, but 1 can not do it. It's very clear, I can not do it.
And if you tell me that Ido not get the permission, than I will do nothing. So, I mean that is the
problem, and that is why I am so very pleased to have those drawings. Those drawings clearly
demonstrate that storm windows in the dining room are not feasible. Zap pack is also not
feasible because these are window frames that are not rectangular and that will cause a problem,
and they're not stable enough. So, I mean, I think that actually my proposal is living up to the
spirit and the letter of the guidelines. The spirit and the letter. Namely to preserve the
appearance of the house, I don't change anything, nothing is changed, the frame is not changed,
the color is not changed, nothing. I will improve the quality with premium windows, premium,
not just one glass. And thirdly, I will have a home in which I can live in wintertime. I don't have
to go to Florida. So I would appreciate from you that you reconsider my arguments, and I thank
you for your understanding.
LP: The Chair will now recognize Commissioners with questions.
JS: I'm sorry I've lost my voice, but I would like to say that after the last meeting I did go out to
Professor Enderle's house with his contractor and I did look at all of the windows to understand
exactly what the problem was. If you will look at the picture here, you will see why the storm
windows will not work There is no built in inset to put the storm windows in. It would interfere
with the decorative trim, the pilasters which are part of the decorative molding of the windows
itself. The use of storm windows in the traditional way of storm windows is not feasible, it simply
wouldn't work. Physically it wouldn't work, aesthetically it wouldn't work and historically,
totally incorrect. What he is suggesting then, the other option that we were looking at with the
contractor is using the sash, the existing sash, and installing insulated glass in the existing sash. .
Unfortunately, Professor Enderle has said, the existing sash is not all rectangular, it is not
square in the corners, and that's part of the problem with the windows as they currently exist.
They don't meet at the top and there's air blowing through from the windows, due to the sash not
fitting properly in the existing frames. The glass has oozed as glass will do, the frames have
sagged, and the window frames have gone out of plumb. So there is nothing in the existing
windows that actually works. Furthermore, the weight of putting insulated glass in the existing
sash would make the windows unusable, because the weights that operate those things are
calibrated for the existing single pane windows so those existing sash could not be reused, which
I think that we'd all hoped would be used. So the last option, which he is proposing is to install
the aluminum clad windows, is in fact the premium window on the market now a days. Each one
will be custom designed to fit in each space so that it will be absolutely appropriate. I have
calculated the difference from the drawing which I asked him to prepare for us, which he had
done, the difference because Martha had brought it up the last time, about the difference in the
total percentage of glass-which sometimes look very strange; and the total difference is less than
inch in two feet. I don't think that you can tell that difference. Furthermore, the total
percentage of square footage difference is less than one tenth of one percent square foot. Slightly
less than the existing, I don't think that is going to show. And, as he said, the windows with the
arches, the glass is not arched in those windows; it's the framework that's arched. Its part of the
trim on the outside, so to speak. So I am very much suggesting that we allow him to....
TK: I'd like to call for Orders of the Day. I don't know that this is the location in the agenda for
commissioners' discussion; I think that this is the point....
JS: I'm telling you that I don't need to ask him because I've already talked to him, that's why I'm
saying what I'm saying.
LP: I had recognized Commissioners with comments or questions, actually with questions for the
property owner, but she....
TK: Right.
LP: Good point.
JS: So I don't know what else 1 can say, I think that he has made an earnest effort to produce, as
he said, a livable substitute unless we want to forbid him to do anything and to live with his drafty
single pane windows.
LP: I'd like to interject at this point and askAmy, are her coriimentsjust now will that be clear
on the tape?
AH: Absolutely, I'm at maximum volume.
LP Ok.
JS: I'm so sorry, this just came on me yesterday.
LP: Its ok, it's riveting. It's especially appropriate for an October meeting.
JS: And I'm running out ofsteam.
LP: I'd like to ask other commissioners if they had any other questions.
3
TK: I had a couple questions for the petitioner. I could see no indication of specific window
locations designated for replacement under this proposal. Do you have any sketch of your house
the ones that you're indicating for this ten window replacement?
GE: Yes, they are in the packet that I sent to you. They are exactly written down with the
measurements and everything.
TK: I have that, but I didn't know where these are featured on the house itself.
JS: It's the location of the windows that hes askingfor.
GE: The location is on the second floor.
TK: All the windows are second floor?
GE: No, no, not all. Four are the dining room, four are the bedroom and two are the bathroom.
JS: What is the location of the upstairs room? Front room? Back room? Side room, what?
GE: it's on the, not the front side, it's on the southeast side, towards my neighbor on the left.
TK: Thank you. A follow up to that... the C of A form as well as Mr. Enderle's letter dated
1010512006 and the petition for the replacement often window units total. Five rectangular, and
five rounded. I could find no drawing or illustrations for the five rounded top replacements of the
dimensions of the original examples that they would compliment. Am I missing something out my
packet, or do I just have examples of straight top windows here?
GE: You have the samples from the dining room, yes.
TK: When I tallied the number of replacements indicated in the quantity column in the quotation
pages, I found ten listed for double hung windows and none under radius and geometric
windows. How do I reconcile that with the five and jive proposal? Meaning that the C ofA
proposal asks for permission to replace five rounded top windows and five straight top windows
but all of your quotations show ten straight top windows and no quantity of radius top.
GE: They are four and six. But you are right that I have the drawings for the dining room, I did
not have time to prepare all the other because I was out of the country and I had to out of town
again. I have the measures here I can give you that, how it would look like. The basic problem is
what I mentioned before- that if we install zap pack windows as proposed by our Inspector, it
does not work. I can show you tomorrow because it is a square....
TK: I understand sir, and all that I'm asking you if you have any examples to look at for what
you've proposed to do for the arched top windows, and I see none.
GE: Um-hmm.
TK: So you intend to replace five arched top windows, but 1 don't have anything in my packet
suggesting that.
GE: Not in the packet.
TK: No illustration?
GE: Yes.
TK: Thank you.
LR- Would it be possible, since this is such an important house, for the Commissioners to go to
the house as Joann did and look at this? She seems convinced that this should be approved, and I
would like to see it before we vote.
LP: We've done that before and we may end up doing it this time. Let me see what our other
comment is.
MJC: This replacement often windows will not replace all of the windows in the house? Do you
intend to do the rest of them at a later date?
GE: Well I will come back to your Commission for that.
MJC: Is your plan to eventually get the whole house....
GE: If I have the money and the time, and the permission from you, and the experience. One
important reason is the experience. I have lived in the house for two years; it's taken two years
to find out how I can heat the house properly. So it's a very complicated system, and that's why I
am proposing only the most urgent windows because I want to test, to find out, if that really
works or not. If it does not work, I am the first who is unhappy. I mean, it must work. And that's
why I am not proposing the full thing, I cannot do that. I don't have the experience and the
money and the time and the knowledge.
0
LP: Thank you. Any other Commissioner comments or questions? Because I'd like to open this
to the public.
MC: I just don't feel personally that I have enough informdtion about this, and the need for the
entire thing to be new windows right now. I didn't seethe house, I've driven past it, I haven't
seen it with anyone that could point out the features of it that make it impossible for you not to
redo the ones that are there. I'd like to know why that is, and I don't see it in this material.
LP: Anything further from the Commissioners? 1'd like to open this to the public? I feel that
there are some people here that wish to speak on this. Am I correct in that? Please come up and
identify yourself into the microphone. I want to get all of the evidence before we make any
determination.
PH: My name is Paul Hayden and I work for Historic Landmarks Foundation of Indiana. I am
their Community Preservation Specialist. South Bend is made up of many fine historic
neighborhoods, but me personally, ever since I was this high, Park Avenue and the Chapin Park
neighborhood was one of my favorites. I grew up with a good friend that lived near there and!
remember that house over that last 30-40 years. It's a very important house to our community in
a very important neighborhood. In our work, we encourage the preservation of these kinds of
landmarks, but also their parts and their pieces. It's more important as a whole than just say the
windows or the doors. I have not inspected the windows, I'd be curious to do that at some point,
having worked on four or five of my own old houses, I have yet to see any old windows that I
couldn't restore. They probably do exist out there, but I have restored some pretty awful wood
sashes. It appears to me that your guidelines do call for the retention of these important features
and material on this building, and I guess as a Commission I would encourage you to look very
strongly at staying with those guidelines and working with the homeowner to do something to
retain this historic part of the house, make it energy efficient and make sure that its guaranteed to
be around another hundred years.
LP: Thank you.
JD: My name is Joan Downs-Krostenko and I live at 849 Forest Avenue.
SY: My name is Susan Youens, and I live at 850 Forest Avenue.
JD: We represent the Chapin Park Historic neighborhood liaison committee. Last month I read
a letter, which I'm not going to repeat, but I am going to submit again, and before I have my
short comments, I have a question. Can I ask a question?
LP: Mm-hmm.
JD: The C ofA doesn't seem to askpermission to rehabilitate the existing windows; it only
explains why storm windows are not possible and why the new windows that would be purchased
would be good. And I was wondering why the actual complete physical restoration or rebuilding
of the existing windows been considered as an option? Because, as far as I could tell, that's
never been an option, and I was wondering if 1 just missed it. Ok, well I'll just read this briefly
Last month I read a statement regarding the petition to rehabilitate or re-do the windows in the
Anderson House at 710 Park Avenue in Chapin Park. Professor Youens and I are hereto
reiterate the opinion of the Chapin Park Historic District liaison committee that only the
rehabilitation of the windows in this important property should be allowed. The preservationist
community is increasingly against using historic properties using new windows as the materials
construction and dimensions of these features are rarely harmonious with the original structure
even when they are "custom " made. The singular features of the chapin house windows with
their rounded tops and large number of variations in size make custom fit hand made,
reconditioned windows the only sensitive and efficient method for improvement in preservation.
Thank you.
SY: I just wanted to add that I am in the midst of the process of having the beautiful old windows
on my home rehabbed by a marvelousfirm irm that specializes in rehabbing old windows on historic
houses. I had one experience a number of years ago with one replacement window and I was
extraordinarily unhappy with it, and this reconditioning of the windows that came with my house
has been so much successful, such a happier experience, and so much better at heat retention,
that practically speaking its been the better option. So, I don't know if I could perhaps
5
recommend this same firm to you to take a look at, to take a look at the windows but I recommend
them very very highly.
GE: I invite everyone to come to my house and I will give everyone a guided tour that will show
everything.
LP: I think that we're moving in that direction.
GE: Yes, but I think that information about the windows in the dining room are on the table, and
to say that its not clear ... I do not share that, I respectfully disagree.
LP: I guess that you get to a certain point where the only way to know is just to go out and look
at it.
GE: Well, but you are specialists and you can read architectural drawings and they're on the.
table, and all three options are there with 15 drawings and one is the original situation, one is
the storm windows, and the replacement windows. I'd like to say something about the idea to
repair single glass windows as they are now. It is feasibly, technically not possible because my
windows are much bigger than Susan's windows. These are enormous windows, and it is not
feasible to place a second glass on that frame as Wayne Doolittle said last time. It's not possible
to repair, it's feasibly not possible. That is what I got from Wayne.
There are only three options, well... four, do nothing. Either repair the windows as they are,
keeping one glass, and then to have cold rooms in the house, or to put storm windows up so we
have two glasses, but that would be against the historic record of the house. Technically,
aesthetically, that is clear from the drawings, or to have those premier windows. And my
proposal if you think that the information for the arched windows, then I ask that you vote on the
proposal for the four dining room windows. With all the information necessary here on the table.
CH: I have a letter here from the former home owner Amy Jones that I'd like to read. It's dated
October 6, 2006 Dear Members of the St. Joseph County Historic Preservation Commission, I am
writing as a former owner/custodian of the Anderson House — a local historic landmark home
located at 710 Park Avenue. It has come to my attention that a Certificate of Appropriateness
has been submitted for replacement ofseveral windows at the Anderson House. Igreatly
appreciate the financial commitment involved in order to properly maintain such a historic home.
Improving the energy effectiveness of an older home is certainly significant among the many
concerns homeowners face. However, I think such concerns can be effectively addressed while
balancing the historic integrity of the structure. An example of an unfortunate energy saving
measure was evident on the Anderson House for many years. At some point in the 1970's the
owner had sheet metal bolted to the arched tops of the windows squaring off the arch shape in
order to make the window openings adaptable to standard rectangular metal storm windows.
While the metal has since then been removed, it was most definitely a glimpse of what can happen
to a beautiful and unique feature of a historic home for the sake of energy efficiency. Local
Historic Landmark guidelines must certainly address such considerations as window
replacement. It is my hope that your commission will help Dr. Enderle find options, which are
both within the local landmark guidelines and effective means of making his home as energy
eff cient as possible. My Regards to Your Efforts, Amy M. Jones, formerly of 710 Park Avenue,
South Bend, Indiana.
LP: Thank you. Do we have ... the chair at this point will allow for any additional evidence
that anyone wishes to submit in this matter? Yes?
GE: I would like to make a short comment on the session last time. Our colleague
Joann (Joan Downs-Krostenko) read a well prepared statement, she was asked to do
that, she did not know what the statement actually said or what it was. It was ordered or
asked for by somebody else, so without knowing what that was, she made that
statement. What is this? I think that this is overstepping the line of good citizen
behavior. If ...and if there is, I mean organized by the staff or I don know who is
organizing that, but I think that those statements should at least be truthful.
LP: Thankyou. [Inaudible] Sure, in the interest offull disclosure, then I'd like to...
JD: I think that you misunderstood what I said to you on the phone after that meeting. I was
informed that there was an issue on the table, but I didn't have access to your C of A. So, I was
told briefly what the issue was and did I have a concern? Which I did. So I prepared my
C
statement as best I could based on the information that I had, but I mean ... Istill, I have never
actually had any of the information in my hand that the commissioners have, so I'm at a bit more
of a loss and more ignorant, but I have said, still don't quite understand your conundrum
entirely. Maybe because I haven't looked at your house, but I don't understand why you can't
rebuild wooden windows. Make them more efficient so that they aren't gapping and make them
efficient. I understand why you can't have storms and all of that, I understand that. I don't
understand why you can't have reconditioned windows why you have to buy new metal clad
windows. Apropos of that statement, that's my job, to be told when there's an issue our
neighborhood. To be told when there is an issue coming up ... although I don't have access to the
C of A, I'm to know when something is coming up. I find out through my own sources what the
issue is, and then I'm asked to make a statement. Ifeel like my statement from last time was
accurate although I didn't have access to your C of A.
[Inaudible comment from homeowner]
LP: She does not make the judgment, the Commission makes the judgment.
SP: As a point of order the letter that was written last time is not part of the record, well, its part
of the record for this proceeding, but any items last time are not part of this, so... it's moot.
LP: It is moot. I'd like to recognize Wayne because he'd like to speak but I didn't see his signal.
WD: A little bit of history. Storm windows came into vogue in the 1860's,
SP: Wayne, I don't think that you're on the mike for the purposes of recording, you may want to
come to the podium, if not...
i WD: Ok, there we go. Originally, storm windows came into vogue in the 1860's. So, it's very
possible that it could have had storm windows. The Anderson's were very wealthy people, and
they could certainly afford that. Beyond that, the house had shutters on it, all the way around. If
it is able to accommodate shutters, it will certainly accommodate storm windows. As far as size
goes, the Commission as well as HLFI sponsored a workshop on windows. We worked on the
windows in an old synagogue which is on William Street, and I think that those windows are
probably 12 or 13 feet high, with two very large sashes. They came out, were put back in, and
they are sealed. Size really isn't a concern. It can be handled.
JS: May I respond to that? In this case, if you will just simply look at the picture you can see that
because of the trim, the classical pilasters, and the capitals on top, and the way the windows set
in, and if you look at the scale drawings of this ... you can see that storm windows were never a
part of this. And, they couldn't be a part of this, and they still can't be a part of this particularly
set of windows. There is no place to set a storm window either on the inset part of the, where
most storm windows are installed, and the double hungs behind that. The only track that's in
here has the windows in it. So, storm windows would have to be placed on the trim. In this case
the trim also involves a pilaster right [gesturing to photos} right there, and there, and there,
which comes right to the edge of the trim, therefore leaving no place to put the storm windows.
What Mr. Enderle was trying to say is that it never had any, it might have had, as Wayne says,
historically, been used but apparently not on this house. I think that we need to stick to the
reality in this case. Size, in many cases, may not be important, but in this particular case, the
tallness of these windows and the narrowness of the depth of the wood work in which the current
single pane of glass is put, and I measured it myself with measuring tape. The distance from the
edge of the glass to the frame is not suff ciently large enough to put anything but a single pane of
glass Single panes ofglass are not energy efficient under any circumstances. And even if the
windows were taken out and rebuilt, which the contractor is willing to do, it would be hard to
make them fit because some of the glass has slid out of the frame, and the frame itself doesn't fit
in the opening anymore. Rebuilding all of that is possible, but it doesn't answer the energy
ejficiency need, because there's no room in that particular frame to put the insulated glass. The
insulated glass is this thick, there isn't that much space to set it on. I'm sorry that I'm so
difficult...
LP: It's ok, I can understand you. I've been informed that a Commissioner has a statement
regarding this that he'd like to read. The chair recognized Tim Klusczinski.
TK: "In my opinion, the Guidelines and Standards for both our Local Landmarks and the Chapin
Park District aim to promote the retention and rehabilitation of original architectural amenities
7
and structural features. Exceptions to this community covenant must be objectively justified and
ordered by this commission when that prime directive is not feasible. Feasible implies cost-
effective, affordable — rather than a preference for new options and conveniences. In that vein I
believe it is the duty of the petitioner to prove that restoration is not a feasible alternative-while it
is our duty to make an informed and objective decision. Remember that exceptions to standards
are universally expected. From page 82 of the Chapin Park Guidebook. `In making its
determination, the Historic Preservation Commission shall consider three factors:... first, the
appropriateness of the proposed work to the preservation of the building and district, second, the
detriment to the public welfare if the proposed work is permitted even though it is not deemed
appropriate third, the potential hardship that the denial of the Certificate of Appropriateness .
would cause the applicant. " For the past few years this Commission has been a partner with
Historic Landmarks of Indiana and its former Community Preservation Specialist, Bob Yapp.
From this relationship, we've endorsed a philosophy to educate the public in restoration
techniques while promoting this initiative as a cost-effective strategy. Windows have been a key
topic of discussion with a clear emphasis toward restoration. I am aligned with that approach
and I pray that this commission also supports it. " Thank you.
LP: Thank you.
JS: May I respond to that? Because the standards as written are extremely inconsistent. And it
depends who makes the interpretations. It says inappropriate new windows and door feature,
such as. metal, vinyl, fiberglass, awnings, hoods or aluminum insulating glass combinations that
require removal of original windows and doors shall not be installed. If this actually means what
it appears to say, that insulated glass is never going to be allowed in restored windows if in fact
that is what is meant by this bit of confusion because later on, it says if you decide that it's
beyond repair, it can be used so there is a confusion in the standards which is not very clear. If
you ... I'm kind of addressing this to you Shawn, if you'd sort that out, because the standards are
not consistent, and I said that when we were reviewing these standards, and I underlined them
and they never got fixed. And so I'm reiterating that because now we're bunched into this thing
because it says IF new sashes are installed, original materials should be used. Sashes are not, if
they're going to be new, they're not the original. It doesn't make any sense.
MC: That's a paraphrase.
JS: Well, if it's a paraphrase, it shouldn't be in here, it should be quoted exactly. The whole
statement...
LP: I think that we're at the point where we're parsing the words about the standards... Wayne?
WD: I'd like to give a little education to the members of the Commission. Insulated glass .... glass
is a terrible insulator. It is the distance between two pieces ofglass that will give you the
insulated value.
JS: Exactly.
WD: The further apart those two pieces of glass are the better insulation factor comes into play.
The other real difficulty that I have with the double paned window is that many of them lose their
gas and when they do that, they leak. Then moisture comes in. You can talk to almost anybody
that's had replacement windows, and that's something that's happened to many, many people.
You then have to replace the entire piece of glass.
JS: That's right.
WD: You've got to replace it. So, that's uh, a little window stuff.
CH: I have to concur with Wayne on this because I was at the Center for History, I'm on their
finance committee, and they had to completely replace all of those windows in the Carriage
House restoration that were not, that were probably put in, brand new, insulated glass, not more
than IS years, maybe not even 12 years ago. At a cost of $10,000, they had to re-replace them.
New windows.
LP: I know what you're talking about; we replaced all the windows in our house, my mom and
dad's house, the new people. We replaced them again; they didn't last even 10 years. Did you
have a motion that you wish to make about this because it seems that we still have questions.
SP: The question was brought up by Linda regarding inspection. As a Commission you're
allowed to inspect a property without having an open door law meeting. You can do an on-site
inspection as others have done in the past.
LP: I think that's the direction that we're moving in.
TK But not all at the same time?
SP: No, you can all do it at the same time, and have an on-site inspection; I think that what I
would caution is to refrain from deliberation or discussion ifyou will, on the actual matter. It's
more of a fact-finding, investigative procedure. Then at the next meeting you would come in and
report your findings either individually or as a group. The findings that you, whoever went out
there made, and they can provide additional information on what the actual status is.
TK: Procedurally if I may, if we're moving in that direction, does it make sense to either deal
with this particular C of A at this time, and maybe defer to a committee for that review, or are we
reviewing it under the pretense of only the replacement option, and not restoration to those same
windows?
SP: You have a particular Certificate of Appropriateness in front of you and that is what you are
called to act upon. You may table that, and provide for this investigation if that is going to help.
you advice or form your decision on this C of A. And so, an example would be that you believe it
could be restored you could then provide that information as a rationale for not believing that
under the guidelines that you should approve it. If it provides you the ability to do that, you have
45 days to act on or deny on this particular C of A, unless the owner consents to amending it or
extending the time line. Does that make sense?
TK: So, essentially it would still be a live motion, or a live certificate?
SP: Yes. You could table it, or the other option would be that you could send it to a committee to
consider it. You all could do the investigation, and then the committee could hold a meeting and
prepare a report that it could adopt detailing its f ndings and then bring that back to the
Commission with a finding. So, you have those two options... one, send it to a committee to
investigate and bring backfindings or table it, allow all of you an opportunity to go there and
then come back and resume deliberation on this particular certificate of appropriateness.
LP: Would it be appropriate for the committee of the whole go out there? We have a standards
and maintenance committee, with several members, though everyone on the Commission seems to
have questions about these windows.
SP: Madam President, you could advise the Commission either or. You could invite or delegate
it to the committee to meet and do it, and apprise everyone of the time that they're going to be
doing it, during the midst of the next month go out individually and review it if you would like. If
you do a committee it allows them to be able to meet and make findings, and make a report to
bring back Otherwise it's just individuals coming back with their own impressions, and then
deliberate under these same procedures at the next meeting.
LP: My question is if we have the committee of the whole go out there and they were able to come
to a determination of the best course would be able to vote then so he could get to work on it?
SP: No. You cannot take action- you can fact find and have each individual member comeback
and report their impressions of the situation. Then, at that point, make your discussion and final
action on it. So the committee option would allow them to meet in a special meeting before you
come backfor the report. It's a little more streamlined, then scheduling maybe everyone then
prior to the next meeting.
MC: Until recently, that's exactly what we've done for over twenty years. The standards and
maintenance committee is called on whenever there is a problem like this, and we handled it very
well. We didn't vote on it, but we gave our opinions. Joann has been always on that committee
and we've used her skills to determine things. I was amazed when I came in tonight, I've been
the chairman of that committee for a long time, and we've gone to endless houses and helped
them to decide what they should do and what would be best for the home. I don't think that we've
been called for the last year I believe.
LP: We went out a couple of times this summer on things.
MC: Beg your pardon?
LP: We went out this summer on several issues. I don't know if you were in town.
0j
MC: Evidently, I didn't know about it. I haven't been out. But, I thought tonight that I would be
hearing something about interior storm windows, Marvin window company- when we were
working on Central High School here, told everybody that theywanted to take every window out
of that building. There were 104 windows, and they said that they were all no good, that they
couldn't do anything. Then, Marvin came in and examined them and said that only two needed
replaced, and they put storm windows on the inside of those windows and they've worked just fine
ever since. The people that live there are having no problems with them.
AH: No, we are not.
MC: That's right. And they never have. And, they're less bother, and less expensive.
LP: We have another comment from Tim.
TK: I move to table application #2006-1005A for review by the committee of the whole for report
or recommendation before our next monthly meeting.
Lit Second.
LP: All in favor? (Ayes are heard) Opposed? (Silence) Motion carries.
SP: Hold on one second. Legal counsel and HPC Director are conferring on date of C of A and
its viability for 45 days.
TK: Am I to understand that the 45 day clock starts ticking even before this commission can
review the C ofA?
SP: That's what we're looking at right now. It appears that it was submitted on the fifth, and our
next meeting is on the twentieth- exactly 45 days. So I guess that out of ambiguity that he's
signed this waiver that he's allowed us the additional time to consider it, the homeowner is
willing to do that?
GE: As I said you are cordially invited to come. Everybody. In group, or individually that'sfne.
If I am town, I'll be happy to show you not only those windows, but the whole house. There are
54 windows and if you can help me...
LP: We want to help you...
GE: I'm more than happy to. But about those four windows in the dining room. I organized a
specialist to prepare those drawings, you have all of the information on the table. You have the
opinion of the specialist. I'd like to ask you to make a decision on those four windows, and the
rest we can postpone for the future.
TK: We've already tabled.
LP: We've tabled so that we can come out and look at them. We owe it to you, and to the
standards that we do come and see because I could look at a drawing and to me it's not clear in
my head, and I know that several other commissioners have problems with it. If we vote now, it
will most likely be negative.
GE: Well, then its negative. I would like to have a vote about those four windows in the dining
room.
SP: A point of order...a motions already been had, and has been accepted and therefore it has
been tabled. Under the guidelines, you have 45 days, and f you meet on and act on the 20`h (of
November) you'll be on the 45`h day.
LP: We could also with proper notice, have a special meeting just to consider this as well.
SP: So I guess the question for the petitioner is if the ... if you would be willing to sign a waiver to
wait until the next meeting on this..
GE: On what?
SP: On your entire certificate. If not, they're really not obligated to do it anyway, so it's kind of
a moot point. I guess would you allow them to visit your house and inspect it, and would you be
agreeable to them visiting to take a look at it?
GE: So it's not possible to vote on those four windows?
SP: It's possible, but they've already tabled it.
GE: But they didn't have my information, my wish.
SP: They don't need it technically, because under law they have 45 days to act. So the question
is if you'll let them enter your house to look at and review the situation so that they can make an
informed decision.
N
GE: And then the Commission is reimbursing the cost of those drawings? I have already
spent ... Iput a lot of money in preparing this session tonight. And everything is on the table. And
you are specialists and yet you can't make a decision, I don't understand that. I am willing to
discuss about" other windows in my house, but those four are so clear ... and they don't need
any explanation anymore.
SP: Iguess the question is ifyou're willing to allow the commission to come to your house to do
additional fact finding.
GE: Of course.
SP: Ok
LP: Please be patient with us, we are working for you and to balance preservation standards ..
with your wishes. I promise that we will get to your house. We'll communicate with Catherine,
and find out also what your schedule is, when your next trip is planned. He said several weeks,
but I plan on ... unless you're going out of the country ... Iplan on coming out to your house as
soon as possible. And I think that the rest of the commission does also.
GE: Why is it not possible to make a decision on those four windows?
TK: It's a procedure issue, with all due respect, Mr. Enderle. Four windows were not proposed
on this Certificate of Appropriateness. So you can't change it, once It's been tabled, as a ten
window proposal. Does that answer your question?
! GE: [unintelligible]
JS: Can we meet as soon as the end of this week, is that a possibility?
LP: It's a possibility for me.
GE: It is not a possibilityfor me, I have two seminars.
LP: Would you be able to tonight before you leave to advise Catherine of your schedule for the
next two weeks, and the tomorrow the commissioners can communicate with her, we can set up a
time so you know when we're coming out?
GE: Yeah.
LP: I'm sorry?
GE: Yes. j
LP: Thank you. That's what we're going to do. If you want to talk to him right now, we can take
a brief break Do I need to make a motion for that Shawn?
SP: Just leave it running.
CH: Mr. Enderle is available between 2-5pm on Saturday, and if you all want to go over as a
group ... I think that this shows that we get the packets out to each commissioner at least a
week ... you should be going out, and if you have questions, and you don't understand, and staff
can't answer your questions ... I encourage you to go out and visit the sites, that's why you have
these in advance.
LP: Yes, Joann did, and thank you. What is wrong with meeting between 2-5 on Saturday?
Other than a football game?
CH: Nothing. That's the only time that he gave us because he has seminars other than on
Saturday between 2 and S.
MC: We ought to accommodate him.
SP: The other option, and I don't know if we're back live or not, the other option is that you
could set to reconvene this meeting at that time, at that place to make a decision if you'd like.
That's the option to calling a special meeting. You can reconvene this meeting for the limited
purpose of considering that certificate of appropriateness.
LP: Oh, Ilike that.
SP: The question is if you'd think that it would be ready for that, or if you think that you might
want to go ahead and schedule to reconvene this meeting that following Monday or however else.
So that's also a possibility.
LR: If you have a quorum...
LP: I'd like a show of hands, how many would be able to be out there between 2 and S? That's a
quorum.
CH: Todd might be able to be there too.
• 11
LP: If we reconvene the meeting at that point, can we still go through our whole meeting here?
We can go through our other business?
TK: Yes, that motion is tabled, so that we be our only unfinished business.
SP: What you'd do is finish this agenda here, and then reconvene with only the purpose of that
one certificate of appropriateness. On that, it would still be a meeting, and I'd have to check on
whether that would have to reconvene here, or if it could be at a different place. I'd have to
check on that, I don't know that answer. I think that you can be at a different place, but it has to
be a public meeting. But my caution would be that it won't be on the record though, so if you're
actually making findings and then... it may be difficult to have all of the stuff out there. I'd
almost recommend that you come back here and decide that afternoon if that's what you want..
JS: It might also be easier to just call another meeting, instead of being restricted to reconvene
the meeting. Therefore it will have all of the accoutrements of the proper minutes, etc.
CH: We can bring a portable tape recorder.
LP: What if we bring a portable tape recorder, Shawn?
TK: Can we reconvene at the HPC Office? If we provide notification and do it right there at the
conference table?
SP: Yes, you could. If you wanted to do it at 5:00 on Saturday at the HPC Conference Room, you
could reconvene for that.
MC: That would workfor me because of the Notre Dame traffic on my street. We can't go in or
go out or anything without a special pass.
LP: I'd rather not spend all day on this though.
JS: How can you reconvene in a non-public place for a public meeting?
SP: It would be a public place. The conference room there... the office would just have to be
unlocked to ensure that they could get there.
LP: Do we have to advertise it?
SP: You could post it on the door, but I don't think that you have to readvertise it in the sense
that, you have to send it to the Tribune and all that. I would say though that the petitioner should
be able to be there, and if this works for this guy, maybe it's the best thing for it. I don't know,
I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility. Maybe it would make more sense to find another
time have a special meeting the following week, to do it that way.
MC: I'd also like to ask at this time to ask for whatever you can get from Joann to us before
Saturday, just a page maybe of what she was truly pointing out. Her thoughts that would never
show up on this thing, and we ought to give that a reading before we meet together. It was
unfortunate that I could only understand very little of it all. I think that we all ought to have a
copy of it.
LP: I'd also like to ask the commissioners if they prefer to convene on Saturday at the HPC
office, or would they prefer another time the following week?
MJC: Well, if Professor Enderle were to be there it would have to be Saturday, if we met any
other time, he couldn't be there. So, is it important that he be there.
LP: Ok. That's what we'll do then. Moving right along to the next item of business.
Moved: Klusczinski Second: Riley Vote: 7-0
B. LANDMARKS
1. 853 Forest - Second Reading
CH: We tabled last week, last month, excuse me, 853 Forests' request for landmark status. We
were instructed to get a copy of the abstract of the property, which is here. In summary of all of
the salient points, there's nothing other than genealogy, some lawsuits and will in this abstract.
The one thing that does mention the house is in note number 38 of the abstract, dated September
4, 1890. which basically says that 'this deed is made on the express condition that the grantee, his
heirs and assigned shall construct a good and substantial dwelling house on said lot to cost not
less than $850.00 within three years of date hereof and shall maintain forever a good and
substantial fence against the west end of said lot. Further, any and all outbuildings erected on
this lot shall be within 25 yards of the west line of said lot.' And that's basically all of the
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information that we have concerning this house, which is considered a stick style; gabled ell,
cross plan, and its rated Significant 11. It was built in 1892.
LP: And does this satisfy people's request for more information on this, I would hope.
CH: Well, that's all we have. We don't have an architect of record on this particular property.
LP: Ole We don't need to take any action on this do we?
CH: This is the second reading. Unless you wanted to table it until November again.
LP: No, I'd like to consider this the second reading
CH: Ol; so we'll put it on the agenda for next month for the third and final reading, then ask the
commissioners for a favorable or unfavorable recommendation to the Common Council.
C. NATIONAL REGISTER NOMINATION
None on the agenda.
III. REGULAR BUSINESS
A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
September 18, 2006
LP: I have a comment about the minutes. The comment was made tome that, I think that it was
[Councilman] Rouse that said that when they read our minutes its difficult tofollow with the
names abbreviated, its hard for them to know who's talking.. I know it makes it easier to do.
MJC: Should we just use last names?
AH: Whatever they've indicated to you to be their preference, I'll happily do.
JS: Ilike the initials myself.
SP: I think again if its going to the Council if it's a situation where a denial is being appealed, it
would be a special thing when its made, using last names, you wouldn't have to do it for all of
them.
LP: So you're saying just when we've denied something?
SP: If its something that we're submitting them for their approval, we can make the changes to
include last names for that section only, if that's the preference that they desire. That way you're
not doing it for every single thing at every meeting.
LP: That would be a good compromise.
AH: Whatever you decide.
LP: We really don't have to do anything, but they say that they find it harder to follow what is
going on with just initials. But, I think that he's got a good point about denials.
AH: Ok, I think that 1 already, I mean if someone abstains or votes against something then I note
that name.
TK: Did this have something to do with our resolution from last time?
SP: I don't know.
LP: No, this is concerning another matter. Alright, I'd like a motion on the minutes.
MC: I move that the minutes from the September 18, 2006 meeting be approved as written.
TK: Second.
LP: All in favor? (Ayes heard) All opposed?
LR: I abstain I wasn't here.
LP: Motion carries.
Moved: Choitz Second: Klucszinski Vote: 6.0
Abstention: Riley
B. COMMITTEE REPORTS
1. Treasurer's Report
TK: We have one, and I have a question regarding our candy sales do we have a tally of sales
yet, and what line item does that appear on?
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CH: It is not on this budget yet.
TK: Ok.
CH: They were submitted on the first week in October, I believe that we have sold, to date, about
34 bags, and all of the money has been turned in, except for the monies that have been collected
since October S, 2006.
TK: Thank you.
2. President's Report
LP: I have been communicating with people about our advisory committee, and everyone was in
favor of moving ahead and contacting these people. With two exceptions, for various reasons,
and Shawn I'm not sure how to handle this, I don't want that to be public record. None of these
people have been contacted Several people had an issue with a couple of people on here, how
can I handle that without putting on public record that they've been basically delisted These
were just suggestions, and different people have different knowledge.
SP: I think that you... well, just say that they don't have a favorable recommendation. I'm not
sure what the exactly what procedures are for nominations for the overall record. You can have
one list that you can 'x' off, but I'm not sure if we're past that point yet.
LP: This is still considered a draft, so what I'd like to do is just revise it, and take off a couple
names who are either not interested or have received unfavorable recognition.
SP: You can do that, if it's a problem, I'll let you know.
LP: Ok, that's what I'd like to do.
MJC: Between us, can we bring names. We do have an arborist in the city that we may want to
include. A mason of some repute, someone with good plumbing knowledge, a historical, a roofer
and a landscaper, if we can include those people.
LP: I want to make this clear, I think that's great, after I do some editing on this one, we start
draft two.
MJC: And we have 13 architects.
LP: Yeah, we're heavy on the architects, but that's not to say that they're all going to want to
participate.
MJC: A mason, a roofer, a plumber and landscaper, if we could concentrate on those skills...
LP: Ok, I'm still accepting comments. I'll get with Catherine, and people that want to submit
additional names can, I have an additional name, I just haven't gotten all of my information
together. We'll start a second draft, so that this can get done and not keep morphing. Any other
committee reports? Seeing none .... staff reports?
C. STAFF REPORTS
Director's Report — Catherine Hostetler
Distributed to Commissioners.
Assistant Director's Report — Amy Herdman
Distributed to Commissioners.
Legal Report — Shawn Peterson
SP: Nothing to report. Except that officially they have withdrawn the appeal for the
Gatehouse, although the papers knew that before any of the attorneys did.
IV. OLD BUSINESS
TK: A few months ago, I suggested that we have an opportunity to review our ordinance, and I
left it pending the President's assignment far committee members for that particular purpose. I
didn't know if you had an idea.
LP: I thought that I had assigned it to you and Todd.
TK: Very good.
LP: In fact I've been waiting for your report. I thought that I had assigned it to you two.
TK: I may have been absent, but I'll get right on it.
LP: I think that we're ready for the hearing of visitors and adjournment.
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SP: I'm sorry but if you're going to reconvene, you can't adjourn.
LP: Hearing of visitors then...
JS: We haven't done new business, and I have two items that I want to discuss.
V. NEW BUSINESS
JS: I have two requests of somebody. The Medow building, and the candy store, which are
owned by the Presbyterian Church, can I have whatever information we have about those .
buildings and the making of landmarks. When they were made landmarks, and what the
landmark status implies for those buildings.
AH: I'd be happy to prepare that for you.
CH: I know the Fredrickson candy store is, but I don't think that the Medow building is a
landmark...
JS: It is, it was thefirst Ford dealership, and because of the terra cotta trim on the front of the
building it was made a landmark, it was kind of a unique thing. It's not being looked after
properly in my opinion, and it should be brought to someone's attention.
CH: You're a member of the parish.
JS: Absolutely, and I have suggested that they ought to be doing something, and they just keep
thinking that its just going to fall down on its own accord, and I tell them that they can't do that.
AH: I'll double check.
JS: The second thing that I'd like. I have been reading that there is some new regulations about
easements, and we have a couple of easements, and I was wondering if you have some new
information about what the new regulations were, and if they'll impact anything that we have
anything on.
SP: Do you know which body adopted those regulations?
JS: No, I read about it in one of the other organizations that I belong to, relative to scenic
easements and farm easements, but its all under that same federal legislation.
LP: Any other new business?
CH: Also under new business, the conservatories and greenhouses, we had a meeting this
afternoon, at 5:15 with the parks board, and the mayor was there, and about 50 other people
were there, Don was there. And the citizens of South Bend have come up with some very very
positive ways of approaching how to save these structures including the Botanical Society of
South Bend, I'll give you their card, and they also have a website. They're talking about a
capital campaign and things that would generate... to raise about $4million, and then that money
would be used to generate the operating expenses of the conservatories of about $200,000 a year.
And also establishing a non -reverting fund out of their gate take, or their rental fees. Similar to
what the Palais Royale is doing. The Botanical Society wants to start a 501 c3; we do not know
at this point what's going to happen on December 31" at the stroke of midnight because Common
Council did pass the 2007 budget without the greenhouses in there. They could turnoff the heat,
they could lock the doors and walk away from it, I'm hoping not, but no one actually came out
and said what will happen on December 31"', and that has a lot of people concerned. We've only
known about this for 40 days, and have been working on it day and night with people in South
Bend, River Park, Friends of the Greenhouse... it's a very important issue and we'll do whatever
we can to help the citizens of South Bend to retain these greenhouses and conservatories.
MJC: What was the attitude of the Park Department?
CH: The attitude of the Park Department and Board, a four member board appointed by the
mayor was that they wanted to hear positives, and want to find a way around it, and how to do
it ... somethingfeasible. They didn't want to sit there and be beaten up, but to hear positives. I
don't think that the feeling that you get from them is that they don't want to be castigated as the
bad guys that killed the greenhouses and murdered the plants.
MJC: Well then they got what they asked for...
CH: They've got a lot, Jean DeWinter, and Susan Keims... have been working around the clock,
as has Jan Michalski and a lot of other people from that neighborhood.
MJC: A number ofpeople have told me that if they need a petition...
CH: They're going to start needing volunteers, and people with checkbooks.
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VI. HEARING OF VISITORS
Don Sporleder: Informed Commissioners that the AIA of Northern Indiana would be having a
design charette at the new fire station on S. Michigan Street to help vision facilities within the
East Lincolnway NR District. The group may find use for the Burke Building on November 11�.
All Commissioners are invited to participate.
SP: A motion was made to table the Certificate of Appropriateness until of Ser the investigation of
the premises by the Commission members. That investigation is being set for 2pm on October 21,
2006, this coming Saturday at the house. After that, at 3:30pm, you'll need to reconvene the
meeting until Saturday, October 21", at the office of the Historic Preservation Commission.
LP: That sounds good. I'd like a motion.
TV- I'll make that motion.
SP: You need a second.
MJC: Second
LP: All in favor? (Ayes heard)
Attest:
Mary J e Chase
Secretary
Historic Preservation Commission
Of South Bend and St. Joseph County
//--195�1r
Date
SOUTH BEND & SAINT JOSEPH COUNTY
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION
GUESTS: PLEASE SIGN THIS LIST SO THAT
YOUR PRESENCE CAN BE NOTED FOR OUR
MINUTES
Print Name Address
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