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HomeMy WebLinkAboutNovember 2003-, AGENDA: OF`. TIE NOVEIYIBER 17; 2003�:.-° �:` T GOMMISSIONIVIEE ING Regular Meeting — 7th Floor — County -City Building Monday, November 17, 2003 7:30 PM I. CALL TO ORDER, ROLL CALL II. PUBLIC HEARING of CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS 1. 2003-0908; Jefferson School, 528 South Eddy Street; window sash replacement in original building & new windows in new addition. (Report of Jefferson School Advisory Committee meeting Oct. 21) 2. 2003-0919-2; 721 Lincolnway East; Installation of outdoor hot tub & modifications to walled courtyard area. 3. 2003-0919-3; 322 West Marian Street; replace front & side doors, replace or repair side entrance, repair roof overhang & soffit, install storm windows, repair or replace porch planking, windowsills, and sill plate of house. 4. 2003-1031; Firehouse Theatre, 701 Portage Avenue, accent lighting, lawn sign with lighting, awning replacement (or repair if possible). 5. 2003-1101; Leeper Park Island Tree Trimming, and commencement of dredging and seawall restoration. 6. 2003-1112; 107 West North Shore Drive; six foot steel reinforced concrete wall along alley, faced with brick on the yard side and with stucco -like finish of the alley side. (Report of Standards & Maintenance Committee meeting Oct .28) III. REGULAR BUSINESS A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES (September 16, & Sept. 29, October 20) B. STANDARDS & MAINTENANCE COMMITTEE: new meeting to be set not later than Nov. 29 C. BUDGET & FINANCE COMMITTEE & TREASURER'S REPORT D. LANDMARK COMMITTEE REPORT: 1. Choice and purchase of Local Landmark designation plaques (Three type face options: chose Benquiet, Iowan or Raleigh) 2. Consulting Parties Meeting regarding LaSalle Street Bridge to be Nov. 20, 9:30 a.m., at the offices of DLZ, 2211 E. Jefferson Blvd. 3. Meeting to be set to survey and consider properties along proposed US 31 routes. AGENDA OF THE NOVEMBER 17, 2003 COMMISSION MEETING Regular Meeting — 7th Floor — County -City Building Monday, November 17, 2003 7:30 PM Page 2 E. STAFF REPORTS: 1. Liaison resignations, volunteers, and nominations in: East Wayne Street Local Historic District, Edgewater Place Local Historic District, River Bend Local Historic District, Riverside Drive Local Historic District, and such other districts as may respond by the meeting date. IV. OLD BUSINESS A. South Bend City Plan Meeting Schedule; invitation to HPC Members I ' V. NEW BUSINESS & ANNOUNCEMENTS A. Resolution of Gratitude for the Liaison Service of Julia DesLauriers. B. Resolution of Gratitude for the Liaison Service of Linda Riley. C. Public Library Historic Data Preservation: November 22, 9:00-12:00 D. NNN Historic Home Tour, Nov. 22, 9:00-4:00,1005 Portage Avenue. VI. HEARING OF VISITORS VII. ADJOURNMENT i w_ THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND & ST. JOSEPH COUNTY MONTHLY MEETING October 20, 2003 MEMBERS PRESENT: STAFF PRESENT: MINUTES 7'' Floor, Commissioner's Conference Room County -City Building, South Bend, IN Diane Wrobel-Illes, Joann Sporleder, Gerald Ujdak, John Oxian, Mary Jane Chase, Lynn Patrick, Catherine Hostetler, Martha Choitz, Virginia O'Hair Karen Hammond -Nash, Director Julie Schutte, Assistant Director John Livingston, City Attorney Wayne Doolittle, Inspector ALSO PRESENT: James Burke, Ethel Anderson, Skip McCray, (City Awning Company), Sally Bostick, Scott Peacock, (Mrs. Bostick's contractor), Kathy Kerr, Steve Benczik, (Troyer Group), Gary Van Overberghe, (Glen Niebur contractor), Glen Niebur, Gerald Kline, Gina & Larry De Laurelle, (liaisons for Edgewater District), Tina Assimos, (liaison for Edgewater District), Don Sporleder CALLED TO ORDER JOHN OXIAN: Called meeting to order at 7:30. JOHN OXIAN: Requested that a motion be made to have C of A 2003-0916-2 and C of A 2003- 0919-3 be put into a special meeting. VIRGINIA O'HAIR: I so move. GERALD UJDAK: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. II. PUBLIC HEARING A. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS 1. 2003-0916-1; Angela Street Bridge; Riverside Trail 2. 2003-0916-2; Rail Road Trestle Bridge at Angela Street; Riverside Trail. JOHN OXIAN: Why don't we combine both 2002-0916-1 and 2003-0916-2 together? STEVE BENCZIK: I work for the Troyer Group in Mishawaka. I am here representing the city of South Bend. Riverside Trail covers both C of A 2003-0916-1 and 2003-0916-2. The first one is Birdseye Trail which starts at the Angela Street Bridge and proceeds westward to Keller Park. The first C of A for Angela Street Bridge, we submitted along with our certificate of appropriateness a map or plan that showed we are basically tying into the sidewalk adjacent to the Angela Street Bridge. We are doing nothing to the structure of the bridge other than tying in with the sidewalk that is attached to it. The second one is a crossing that goes across the railroad track that eventually goes over the railroad trestle. We know that the railroad trestle is an historic landmark, and we did not touch the trestle itself; we stayed on landi and we are just going to put a pedestrian grave crossing at the railroad, so that bicycles and pedestrians can cross over that without going over the tracks. MARY JANE CHASE: Asked about parking and lighting. STEVE BENCZIK: As far as parking goes, refer to the map attached to the C of A, straight up on top of the page, NODE "A", or straight across the street on Riverside is what we call a trail head, it is going to have some restrooms and it will have some parking there. People will be able to park at that area and utilize the trail and the restrooms. MARY JANE CHASE: Is that private property? STEVE BENCZIK: . All of that property is owned by the city; we just verified that last week. As far as lighting goes, there currently is some existing lighting along there on wooden poles. Some of those lights will be relocated and some of them will be kept in place. We are going to be adding some lights where the lighting is not sufficient along the trail. There are quite a few overhead lights now that we are utilizing as part of the trail. STEVE BENCZIK: We are not doing anything with the bridge. That is the county's project. We are just attaching the trail to the sidewalk. GERALD UJDAK:'I will make a motion that C of A 2003-0916-1 and 2003-0916-2 be approved as described. JOANN SPORLEDER: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. JOHN OXIAN: Noted that three commission members arrived late at the meeting, Joann Sporleder, Catherine Hostetler, Lynn Patrick). 3. 2003-0918; J.M. Studebaker Building, 106 North Main Street; awning. KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: (See staff report attached to C of A). 2 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: (See staff report attached to C of A). SKIP MCCRAY: (Representative for City Awning of South Bend). We took on this project through the request of the current customer in the location. We have the approval of Mr. Friedline and the city of South Bend to go ahead with this project. We have not been able to determine what actually lies behind the metal siding that is there now. Our best estimation at this point is that it is some sort of wooden structure that supports that aluminum siding. That's what we ran into when we installed the other two awnings, both over where Flint Personnel Services is at and where the vacated cafd is at this time. JOHN OXIAN: In other words you're saying that there is a gap between the wall and the aluminum siding? SKIP MCCRAY: We believe there is a wooden header there that is holding the aluminum siding onto the building. So, yes, I would say there is a gap there. JOHN OXIAN: They did not take any of the terra cotta off of the building. So if there is a gap in between there, and you put your siding up there, you would be attaching it to whatever is holding the outside aluminum and would not interfere in any way with whatever is behind it. SKIP MCCRAY: Yes, sir, that is what we believe. LYNN PATRICK: What is the cost of this project? SKIP MCCRAY: This project will cost the customer roughly $1200.00. LYNN PATRICK: Why does the owner want to put this awning up? SKIP MCCRAY: To dress up the front facade of the building and provide some protection for the store front window. They evidently have had some fading problems with some documents because of the picture. window: LYNN PATRICK: At the reading room. SKIP MCCRAY: Yes, the Christian Science Reading Room. JOHN OXIAN: Even though I may agree with some of your earlier comments, I would still have to agree with the staff that before I would vote to have this awning installed, I would want my inspector to go out there with you when you look to see what actually is behind the aluminum siding that is already there. I do not want you going through the terra cotta that is behind the aluminum siding. SKIP MCCRAY: What we will do is before we actually make any attempt to install the awning, we will see if we can't get a piece of that siding off and see what we are actually going to be going into first. If it appears that we have a wooden header that we can go into and we are not 3 going to damage the terra cotta facade, then at that time I am assuming we will just go ahead and install the awning. If we find out that we are going to cause some damage to the building then we will hold off and wait for the board's recommendation. LYNN PATRICK: On application 2003-0918, 106 North Main Street, the JMS Building. I move that we grant conditional approval for the installation of the awning, provided that our inspector will be present when they look behind the siding to see what is there so that they do not damage the terra cotta. If they do find that there is a possibility of damage to the terra cotta that they will refer back to the HPC for further discussion. DIANE WROBEL-ILLES: Seconds the motion and it passes. Mary Jane Chase abstains. 6. 2003-0919-4; 107 West North Shore Drive, build concrete & brick wall along back and side yard. KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: (See staff report attached to C of A). Gerald Kline, a neighbor of Mrs. Sheet's, who resides at 105 W. North Shore Drive, gave his opinions regarding the privacy wall that Mrs. Sheets proposes to build around the back of her property located at 107 W. North Shore Drive. John Oxian then asked Mr. Doolittle to give his opinion of what he saw when he went out and looked at the property. Wayne Doolittle, the inspector for the HPC, gave his opinion of what he saw when he went out and looked at the property located at 107 W. North Shore Drive. Kathy Kerr, another neighbor of Mrs. Sheet's, who resides at 103 W. North Shore Drive, gave her opinions regarding the privacy wall that her neighbor is proposing to build around the back of her property. JOANN SPORLEDER: Before you take a vote on this motion, I would like the staff to read the district guidelines that state that concrete block can only be used for foundations. This clearly goes against the standards that have been adopted for this district. So, I do not know why we are discussing this any further. JOHN OXIAN: I would vote against this whether it was a wooden fence, cement fence, or a brick fence. I do not like security fences. To me a security fence does nothing but isolate a person from their neighbors. There never were these types of fences in neighborhoods fifty years ago. These are all new things that we are putting into these areas and I am totally against it. LYNN PATRICK: I recommend that we put this into the Standards and Maintenance Committee and that they go out to the property and meet with the owner and the builder and get a clear framework of what is going to be done. That we also make sure that we show sensitivity to the other neighbors there as well. 4 DIANE WROBEL-ILLES: Seconds the motion and it passes. Joann Sporleder abstains. 7. 2003-0929-2; 1512 East Wayne Street; convert back window to French doors. KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: (See staff report attached to C of A). SALLY BOSTICK: The owner was present and offered to answer any questions. JOANN SPORLEDER: I just want to be sure that the brick header that is currently there now is going to be maintained. SALLY BOSTICK: Yes, we are planning on maintaining the brick header just like it is now. JOHN OXIAN: Is there concrete on the bottom area of the windows? SALLY BOSTICK: No, there is brick work under the window. The brick that we do remove will be used later on the landing of the outside of the steps. CATHERINE HOSTETLER: I will make a motion that we accept the staff recommendation to approve application number 2003-0929-2. JOANN SPORLEDER: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 8. 2003-0929-3; 742 Sancome Avenue; enclose front porch. itAREN HAMMOND-NASH: (See staff report attached to C of A). JOHN OXIAN: Based on the original drawing that I had handed in, I was planning on installing 4 x 5 foot windows all the way around the porch in between the pillars that are currently there now. However, I have changed my mind and decided that I would like to install two 3 x 5 foot windows instead all the way around the porch in between the pillars that are there now. The windows will be located behind the pillars. A board would also be installed behind the porch railings that are there now. An entrance door would also be installed in between the front two pillars of the porch. Wood siding would also be installed on both sides of the entrance door. One of the reasons this is being done, is because there used to be a nice big maple tree in the front parkway that has fallen down. When this happened there was nothing left to protect the front of our house from the cold weather. I would also like to put all of my plants out there. The windows are going to be like the sample down here on the bottom of the page, (refer to window advertisement attached to C of A). The reason I have decided to do my porch this way is so that if anyone ever comes along later and they want to remove my windows they will be able to without any damage being done to the original porch itself. MARTHA CHOITZ: Are you going to leave the front door where it is now? �1 JOHN OXIAN: Everything is staying the same that is on the house now. MARTHA CHOITZ: Will all of the siding still be there? JOHN OXIAN: Yes, all of the siding will still be there. Nothing is going to be removed. MARTHA CHOITZ: Have you had anybody work out a drawing showing the way this will look when it is done? JOHN OXIAN: Yes there was a drawing made and handed in; however, they cannot find it at this time. JOANN SPORLEDER: I think that we need a drawing of this so that we can better understand what is being proposed here. JOANN SPORLEDER: Over here where the railings are absent, will new railings be put in? JOHN OXIAN: No, the original railings are all there and they will be put back later after the rotted porch floor is replaced. JOANN SPORLEDER: What about this lattice cover work here in the front of the porch? JOHN OXIAN: We are planning on installing the same kind of lattice work that is already there now. MARTHA CHOITZ: Is it going to be a true greenhouse with a tile floor? JOHN OXIAN: No, it is going to have the same original tongue and groove floor like it did before. MARY JANE CHASE: What is going to go behind the railings that are there now? JOHN OXIAN: A board that will support my windows; because, I am not installing the windows on top of the railings. JOANN SPORLEDER: How are you going to paint and maintain the board if the railings are in front of it? JOHN OXIAN: I will either paint the board or use treated wood. LYNN PATRICK: Are you going to get a contractor to do this work or are you going to do this work yourself? JOHN OXIAN: I have a contractor who is going to do this work and his name is Bill Cook. JOANN SPORLEDER: Are you going to insulate the floor'so your plants don't freeze? 51 JOHN OXIAN: Yes, we are going to install insulation underneath the tongue and groove floor and then seal it off with a treated board. We are also going to install a heating vent out there as well. CATHERINE HOSTETLER: This is not accomplishing anything because we are missing too much data. I would like to recommend that this be put into the standards and maintenance committee. JOANN SPORLEDER: Seconds the motion*and it passes unanimously. 9. 1636 Lincolnway West; install asphalt parking lot, curbs, drainage system & trees. KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: (See staff report that is attached to C of A). ETHEL ANDERSON: I will be doing all of those things she mentioned earlier once I receive final approval. I will be paving from Lincoln Way West to the back of my building; because, that is the amount of money that I have to spend at this time. Next year we will continue to pave around the back of the building and remove the trees. MARY JANE CHASE: What work has been completed from the last C of A that you received a couple of years ago? ETHEL ANDERSON: We did put in a stairway going from the second floor down to the first floor. The work that we did do was on the interior of the building. MARY JANE CHASE: This C of A was for exterior work. I remember there were some trees that were supposed to be saved and some were to be taken down. The C of A also included a parking lot. What part of this C of A has been done? ETHEL ANDERSON: The trees are still there. We haven't determined which ones are going to stay and which ones aren't. So, none of the work from the last C of A has been done. MARY JANE CHASE: So is this going to be revising what the request was on the previous C of A? ETHEL ANDERSON: Yes it is. MARTHA CHOITZ: I am concerned about lighting. I think for security purposes it is almost required that there be some type of lighting in parking lots now. The lighting must be put in before the asphalt work is done because it is underground. I was wondering because there is no mention of lighting in this C o A. In the previous C of A we talked a great deal about the lighting that was to be used. Are you planning on leaving that out? 7 ETHEL ANDERSON: No, I am not going to be leaving that out. I will be talking to asphalt engineers about that as well. JOHN OXIAN: You will still have to come before us for the type of lighting that you want to use, which was approved on the last C of A. ETHEL ANDERSON: I intend to use the same type of light that was previously approved in my last C of A. JOHN OXIAN: Didn't we approve most of this parking last time too? KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Yes, it was before any of your present staff was working here? I do have a copy of the previous C of A and it describes three two headed lights and two one headed lights with twenty foot tall poles and bronze fixtures with shoe box style heads with metal halide lights. That was not however mentioned on the present application. JOHN OXIAN: Unless you're going to change your style of lighting, since the last C of A has already expired, then you need to put this information into your new C of A so that we know what you are planning on doing. ETHEL ANDERSON: I have no intentions of changing the style of lighting I have picked because I like that style of lighting; it seems to give out more light. MARTHA CHOITZ: Where I have seen them put into parking lots around here, they seem to be very effective. JOHN, OXIAN: Then we should have this information put into your C of A, if we are going to approve this again. John Oxian then informed Mrs. Anderson that near her property there used to be a creek at one time that was later tiled over. He then informed her that she better check and see how far down the tile is there, otherwise she will have major problems when she puts in her parking lot. Mrs. Anderson informed Mr. Oxian that she would have it properly checked out ahead of time before she proceeded with any work. JOANN SPORLEDER: What is a drainage basin and where are the drainage basins located? The commission then discussed the difference between a drywell and a retention basin and how they both work together to control excess water flow. JOHN OXIAN: How wide is your asphalt parking lot going to be? ETHEL ANDERSON: It is going to be sixty-two foot wide minimum. We do not know what the drainage is for the existing building. [0 JOANN SPORLEDER: I will make a motion that 2003-1001-1,1636 Lincolnway West be approved as recommended by staff. CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Seconds the motion. JOANN SPORLEDER: I will amend my previous motion to also include the lights which were previously approved by the commission. CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Seconds the motion and B. LOCAL LANDMARKS, second reading 1. 411 Lincolnway West, South Bend JOHN OXIAN: You have received your staff reports. Virginia and I, like we mentioned to you last time, went out and looked at the property and we recommend that this be sent down to the Common Council with a favorable recommendation. VIRGINIA O'HAIR: I will make a motion that we accept the committee's report and the second reading for acquiring the local landmark, 409 Lincolnway West, South Bend. CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. III. REGULAR BUSINESS A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES (July 21, September 16, September 29). , CATHERINE HOSTETLER: I will make a motion that we accept the minutes for July 21St LYNN PATRICK: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. CATHERINE HOSTETLER: I will make a motion that we accept the minutes for September 16th as corrected. MARY JANE CHASE: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. The minutes for September 29th were tabled until the next commission because they were not completed. B. TREASURER'S REPORT CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Enclosed in your packets is the local budget report that goes . through the end of September. Everything is in order. Karen and I have a standing meeting set up for the third Thursday of every month to go over the outstanding bills, which are reviewed and processed in accordance to the county city budget provisions. E LYNN PATRICK:, I will make a motion that we accept the treasurer's report. , JOANN SPORLEDER: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. C. LEGAL REPORT JOHN OXIAN: Have you made up an ordinance for Mr. Clark's property on Indiana Avenue yet? MR. LIVINGSTON: No, I have not done that yet. JOHN OXIAN: I would like you to send an ordinance down for Mr. Clark's property as well as 411 Lincolnway West. JOHN OXIAN: Have you done anything yet regarding the windows at Madison School? Did you send out that letter to them, and if so, have you heard back from them yet? JOHN LIVINGSTON: I drafted the letter and I was going to give it to you last time and I forgot • to. JOHN OXIAN: Did anything else happen on the case involving the Leeper Park parking lot?? JOHN LIVINGSTON: I did send the answer down to the circuit court; however, it is still a dead case. D. STAFF REPORTS KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: The newsletters have arrived at our office and we have printed out the labels and mailed the newsletters with the liaisons nomination forms for Edgewater District. We intend to send the rest of the districts out tomorrow. On the second, Julie and I had a hard hat engineer tour of the work being accomplished on Jefferson Bridge. According to the tour and our inspection everything is being done according to the memorandum of the agreement. It looks very nice. Two grant applications were submitted early this month. One was for the republication of a brochure. The other was for roof repair on Tippecanoe Place. We could not submit the application for the WPA stone work in the city parks because of a request from the city parks department that they do more preliminary work with us before we send the application in. So, hopefully, we will be able to continue work on that and submit it perhaps several months early for next years grant deadline. 'Julie and I attended the O'Brien conference last weekend and it was a highly productive conference. Julie has come back with much useful information on window repair, and I have come back with an agreement from an archeologist in doctorial studies at Notre Dame to meet with the residents of German Township and assist in determining the location and type of the suspected burial grounds there. We hope that this will happen within the next two weeks. Unless anyone has questions, for me, Julie, or Wayne that concludes my staff report. 10 IV. IOLD BUSINESS — (None to Report) V. NEW BUSINESS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & MISCELLANEOUS MATTERS KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: There are several scheduled upcoming meetings. They are as follows: 1. Jefferson School Advisory Committee meeting is tomorrow at 10:30. 2. Budget and Finance Committee meeting is Wednesday morning at 10:00 a.m. 3. Executive Committee meeting is Wednesday morning at 11:00 a.m. 4. Memorial Hospital meeting reerding the proposed closing of Bartlett Street on Tuesday, October 28 , at 6:30 p.m. at the Latten Center. 5. The Near Northwest Neighborhood Association has a historic home tour on November 22"d, from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., and they will meet at the Near Northwest Neighborhood Center. JOHN OXIAN: Due to the number of items that we have on the agenda, I would like commission members to think about the possibility of having our commission meetings start at an earlier time than what they do now. VI. HEARING OF VISITORS 10. 2003-1001-3; 1425 East Wayne Street South; replace twenty-two existing wooden storm windows with aluminum storm/screen combination windows. GARY VAN OVERBERGHE: (Mr. Niebur's contractor), for some reason I was left off of the agenda this evening. I did have my application in on October 1St. I was staff approved for some parts of that particular application; however, I was left off of the public hearing for final approval. We have also included a photograph of the house. JOHN OXIAN: So which windows are you replacing? GARY VAN OVERBERGHE: We are not replacing any of the windows. We just want to install aluminumstorm windows to the exterior of the house. KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: It specifically states here, (refer to C of A), that the house had original wood storm windows. When Mr. Van Overberghe first discussed this with me, he had already done some work to try and see if the original wood storm windows could in fact be repaired and made weather -tight. He also consulted with Ron Zmyslo, of Historic Landmarks Foundation, in Indianapolis, and after a considerable amount of work and consultation had been done they, came to the conclusion that the repair and restoration of the wood frame storm windows would not in fact be possible. It was only after they had come to this conclusion, that they then decided the next best alternative would be the installation of aluminum storm windows. 11 0 I believe, Gary, has with him a sample of the window; showing that it can be obtained in a color that would match the trim on the house. GARY VAN OVERBERGHE: This is an example of the type of aluminum storm window that is going to be used. This color is color matched to the trim color that is already on the existing house. Ninety-two percent of the houses in the East Wayne District already have aluminum storm windows. Not all of the storm windows are like these; some of them have a raw aluminum color, and a large majority of them are white. Only about three percent of the houses there actually have existing wood storm windows.- Five percent of the houses either have steel casement windows or nothing at all. We would like to use this alternative; because, it has been used throughout most of the houses in the district. It is energy efficient and also gives the homeowner the ability to have a screen in their house on their windows, which is not available in the current window style that is tbPrP nnw This -window -is -not -something -that -is -permanent -it -can -b i:;iiiv v ci-with ,iu daiiiagG to the exterior facade of the house. JOANN SPORLEDER: Asked Mr. Van Overberghe to demonstrate or explain how the windows will actually work; which he did for the commission. JOHN OXIAN: Asked whether there were storm windows anywhere on the house, and whether there were any windows he was not going to put storm windows on. GARY VAN OVERBERGHE: There are currently some storm windows, but they are in disrepair. There is a sunroom on the side of the house that has casement windows. These storm windows are custom made to fit each individual window. JOHN OXIAN: If this was not originally put on the agenda, can we still approve this one without advertising it? KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: If it were a landmark then we certainly could not without the address being specifically addressed. If it is in an historical district and it has direct impact on the neighbor's house then it also needs to be specifically published. If it is in a district; however, and it is the sort of repair matter which in some circumstances could be staff approved then you do have the authority to consider it and decide on it as you wish. JOHN OXIAN: So, in other words, we could approve this then? JOHN LIVINGSTON: Since you have already changed the agenda, I think it would be ok if you were to approve this. LYNN PATRICK: I will make a motion that the owner be allowed to replace the windows as indicated; with Gary Van Overberghe's specified aluminum storm/screen windows. CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 12 JOHN LIVINGSTON: The roof on the Human Rights Building in Howard Park has deteriorated and the city wants to replace the roof with slate. The slate they want to use on the roof is very high quality slate. The building is a national landmark; therefore, this will have to go down state. Karen advises me that we can send along a recommendation, right, Karen? KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Yes, this commission, if it chooses, can send along a recommendation that either the project is approved and stating the reasons why, or that it not be approved. JOHN LIVINGSTON: We are going to do a hundred percent slate on the roof. Right now it has an asphalt part on it and a slate part. Midland Engineering Company is going to do it, and I know they do a first class job. JOHN OXIAN: So you are going to do the whole roof with that type of slate? JOHN LIVINGSTON: Yes, we are. It is called a black slate; however, it is actually grey in color. JOHN OXIAN: So, what does staff recommend? KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Staff would recommend that the commission adopt a resolution in support of the project and also direct staff and to send a letter to the National Parks Service and to the state historic preservation officers thus stating. CATHERINE HOSTETLER: I so move. JOANN SPORLEDER: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. VII. ADJOURNMENT CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Makes a motion to adjourn the meeting and it is unanimously seconded. MEETING ENDED AT 9:30 P.M. 13 w � Erie, Landmark. Company 14110-A Sullyiield Circle Chandtly, VA 20151 Phone: 1-800-874-7848 -; 703-758-2574 Un ier ticxnowieugwc-Li tl. ORDER DATE ORDER v BILL TO South Bend & ST. Joseph's County mstoric Preservation Commission PSE $74-235-9798 County/City Building 227 W. Jefferson Blvd. PAX $74-235-9578 CUSTOMER P.O; NO; DESCRIPTION 9 25 x 3,75 "Historic Landmark....' Shipping and Handling Out-of-state sale, exempt from sales tax 11/6/2003 03-18148 SHIP TO South Bend $ ST. Joseph's County Historic Preservation Commission 125 S. Lafayette Blvd. South Bend IN. 46601.1830 TERMS OF PAYMENT ——Prevbu9 Order -a_. Payable with Art Approval OTY MATERIAL. MOUNT FINISH 40 5ion2e Front Dark Green 2 s� p,�-A.gam, pub-�h A) V�, a..54t�,, n SPECIAL iNSTp X'rK)NS _ CREDIT CARD 8 DUE DATE RATE AMOUNT 51.99 2,079.80 140.00 140,00 0.00% 0.00 Panial Payment Due y� I BQa�� Total $2,219.so Please check spelling carefully. Customer Fayment8lCt8dit8 $0,00 is responsible for any errors that appear on final plaque. Balance Due $2,219.60 �t5 � 4 l�le p P� TO 39dd 00 ANVWQNVI 3IN3 VLSZ89L£0L £0:£Z £00Z/0T/TT m m W Lo N m Lo R m 19 rti m ISl m N m 19 C*J `, IM r -I H x-1 HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATED BY THE HISTORIC PEESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND & ST. JOSEPH COUNTY 0 c.7 N, z A z w H w NT I - Lo N co Li P- tr} Q f*- HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATED BY THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND & ST. JOSEPH COUNTY v W CL Lo N m Lo N m CD r - m m m N HISTORIC LANDMARK DESIGNATED BY THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND St ST, JOSEPH COUNTY 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18... 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND & ST. JOSEPH COUNTY MONTHLY MEETING November 17, 2003 MEMBERS PRESENT: MEMBERS ABSENT: STAFF PRESENT: MINUTES 7th Floor, Commissioner's Conference Room County -City Building, South Bend, IN Catherine Hostetler, Lynn Patrick, Mary Jane Chase, John Oxian, Virginia O'Hair, Martha Choitz Diane Wrobel-Illes, Joann Sporleder, Gerald Ujdak Karen Hammond -Nash, Director Julie Schutte, Assistant -Director John Livingston, City Attorney Wayne Doolittle, Inspector ALSO PRESENT: James A. Burke, Mary Ann Sheets, Kathy Kerr, Jim Coppens and Steve Gergacz, (South Bend Civic Theater), Pat Werntz and Robert Farkas, (Wright Const/SBCSC), Larry and Gina DeLaruelle, Tina Assimos, Doreen Mesecar I. CALL TO ORDER: JOHN OXIAN: Called the meeting to order at 7:40. II. PUBLIC HEARING A. CERTIFICATES. OF APPROPRIATENESS, 1. 2003; Jefferson School, 528 South Eddy Street; window sash replacement in original building & new windows in new addition. (Report of Jefferson School Advisory Committee meeting Oct. 21) Briefly tabled to allow for the arrival of Jerry Ujdak, an Ad Hoc Committee member. See p. 4-5. 2. 2003-0919-2; 721 Lincoln Way East; installation of out -door hot tub & modifications to walled courtyard area. KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Read staff report into the record. I See attached. Mr. Burke supplied an amended drawing of his plan, hand drawn by himself onto a photocopied photograph. LYNN PATRICK: Noted that the HPC & the Standards and Maintenance Committee had sent a letter stating that we needed to see the architectural drawings before we could entertain a C of A. Brief discussion was held among HPC members as to whether Mr. Burke's drawing resolved enough of their questions to meet the requirements of "architectural drawing." HPC members remained perplexed and concerned. 1 2 MARY JANE CHASE: When was this picture taken? (refer to the picture that is included with 3 the C of A). Does it look like this now? 4 5 JIM BURKE: That picture was taken about two and one-half to three months ago, I believe. No, 6 it does not look like that now. 7 8 MARY JANE CHASE: I ended up having to drive past the place a couple of times; because, so 9 much has been torn down that it doesn't look anything at all like the picture you gave us. 10 11 JIM BURKE: Attempted to answer the inquiries made. (See attached memorandum dated 12 Tuesday, October 14, 2003; for a detailed description of the changes Mr. Burke proposes to 13 make to his original application). 14 15 LYNN PATRICK: Repeated the HPC's earlier request for architectural drawings, stating in part 16 as follows: I think that if you were to get some design assistance, you would be much happier 17 with the outcome and it would be better for the house. It specifically states in our guidelines for 18 historic preservation, (refer to attached copy of guidebook, page 35, for entrances, porches, and 19 steps, attached to memorandum dated Tuesday, October 14, 2003), "that the original porch 20 details should not be replaced with materials representing a different period style from the 21 original and it should be done in a manner that does not alter the architectural or historical 22 character of the building." 23 Regarding new construction, (refer to attached copy of guidebook, page 36, section three, 24 for new construction), states, "additions to existing buildings shall be related in height and 25 proportion to the existing structure." Furthermore it states, "that additions may not be 26 constructed that would change the existing facade of a building, alter its scale or architectural 27 character, or add new height." 28 When we're talking about rehabilitation versus preservation, it -states, (refer to attached . 29 copy of guidebook, page 36), `.`any style or period of architecture thatis.incompatible,with what 30 exists should not be permitted in the new additions." 31 I think we are dealing with an incompatibility issue here. I think it is because of the lack 32 of experience, not as a craftsman, not as a carpenter; but as an architectural historian. Although 33 the craftsmanship of your building is structurally sound and it meets the requirements of the 34 building department and code enforcement, it still is inconsistent with our guidelines and our 35 goals in an historic neighborhood. Furthermore, I am also trying to obtain some free design 36 assistance for you to try and help you architecturally with your project. I think if you were to do 37 that, it would make a profound difference in the success of your project. 38 39 JIM BURKE: I would be willing to accept any design assistance that you can offer me. 40 41 MARTHA CHOITZ: We really just want to work with you on this. A postponement is the best 42 way for you to have a satisfactory feeling about this when it's finished, as well as the guidelines 43 that we have to obey. 44 45 JOHN OXIAN: There are two things that I don't agree with you on. One, I don't like the two - 46 level deck. When you originally came in for a C of A, you were supposed to put only one deck 47 on. Second, your railing, I agree with Lynn, that your idea of what you are doing there is good; 48 however, I think you have gone too far by using two by sixes for your railings. 2 1 2 LARRY DELARUELLE: I live at 55 Edgewater Drive. I would like to commend Mr. Burke for 3 the work he has done on that house. He has brought that house back a long way from the 4 condition that it was in. I would also like to commend the commission staff on the research 5 work that they have done; obviously, a lot of effort went into doing that. 6 My only remark is that I agree with what Mr. Burke is trying to do; but, I think the only 7 condition that should be set from my perspective is that whatever he does to the inside of the 8 building should not rise above the shell of that building. 9 10 LYNN PATRICK: I would like to make a motion to extend his certificate of appropriateness for 11 three months, and then a ruling be made after receipt and review of architectural renderings 12 . regarding the exterior of the house. 13 14 MARTHA CHOITZ: Seconds the motion 15 16 JOHN LIVINGSTON: I would like you to amend your motion to include that Mr. Burke is 17 giving his consent to do this. 18 19 LYNN PATRICK: I would like to revise my motion to extend his C of A for a period of three to 20 six months with the understanding that there might be a change barring illness, weather, or other 21 unforeseen circumstances, and that a ruling be made after receipt and review of the architectural 22 drawings. 23 24 John Oxian then asked Virginia O'Hair and Mr. Burke if they both agreed with the revised 25 motion that Lynn Patrick made. They both stated they agreed with the motion, and the motion 26 passed unanimously. 27 28 3. 2003-0919-3; 322 West Marian Street; replace front & side doors, re - 29. place or repair side entrance, repair roof overhang & soffit,, install 30 storm windows, repair or replace porch planking, windowsills, and 31 sill plate of house. 32 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: (Read the Staff Report into the record. See attached). Karen 33 stated that there were some matters, which the commission might be able to approve without any 34 questions. She also stated that there were at least two matters regarding which the commission 35 would probably want more information. 36 37 The owner, Mr. MacDonald, was not present. 38 39 JOHN OXIAN: Which ones are you suggesting? 40 41 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Mr. MacDonald has applied for eight different items, (see staff 42 report attached to C of A, under application items). Staff recommended approving the following 43 application items: Part of item number 2, and items number 3 through 7. However, staff would 44 recommend that those be approved subject to the clear condition that repair is to be done when 45 possible and that any replacement is to be in-kind. 46 K, 1 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: The staff would be most pleased if the same conditions that were 2 applied to Mr. Burke regarding his porch design also be applied to Mr. MacDonald regarding his 3 gutters and downspouts. He should be asked to consult with design or architectural experts, 4 either from Historic Landmarks Foundation, Joann and Don Sporleder, or Notre Dame. 5 6 MARTHA CHOITZ: The same should go for the brackets on the house. Has he already taken 7 some of the brackets down? 8 9 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Yes. 10 11 MARTHA CHOITZ: Where are the brackets that he has taken down? Those brackets are very 12 essential to that house. I don't think any of this should be done until he has a clear picture of 13 what style of house he has there. Has he also closed up the windows with the transoms over 14 - them? 15 16 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: He has nailed pressed wood over both transoms. Structurally the 17 doorframes and transom frames have not been removed. No, the owner does not have the 18 slightest idea of what the architectural style of the house is, which would be another reason why 19 some consultation either pro-bono or with an architect of his choice would be an excellent idea in 20 this case. 21 22 JOHN OXIAN: Why don't we vote this down and tell him that he has to come back in and fill 23 out a new C of A with the condition that he goes out and does the same thing that we are asking 24 Mr. Burke to do, which is to get an architect to come in with recommendations for everything 25 that he is proposing to do to his property? 26 27 MARTH CHOITZ: I think we should try to find out if the work on the property has stopped. 28 29 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: He was red -tagged by the building department and,we were 30 assured by the building department that they would keep contractors from working on this 31 property until a C of A has been applied for and granted. 32 The holes in the roof however, are anenormous concern to staff. I really don't want the 33 winter weather going inside that house. 34 35 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: I move that we deny C of A 2003-0919-3; because, the 36 homeowner did not show up with the requested drawings and specifications for this project as 37 extensive as it is. That the recommendations we are discussing tonight be passed on to Mr. 38 MacDonald. 39 40 MARY JANE CHASE: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 41 42 43 1. 2003-0908; Jefferson School, 528 South Eddy Street; window sash 44 replacement in original building & new windows in new addition. 45 (Report of Jefferson School Advisory Committee meeting Oct. 21) 46 Virginia O'Hair gave report of the Committee in Gerald Ujdak's absence. 47 4 1 ROBERT FARKAS: I will summarize what we went through at the advisory committee 2 meeting. I have with me tonight, Mr. Patrick Werntz, from Werntz Supply Company here in 3 South Bend, a local supplier for Traco windows, which we recommended at the last commission 4 meeting. 5 I have brought the shop drawings with me tonight that were a result of the committee 6 meeting that was held on site at Jefferson School. We have made the necessary changes to the 7 design sketches so that we will be able to replicate the exact details of the existing windows. We 8 also discussed at the committee meeting how this would be more possible with the aluminum 9 units than it would be with the aluminum clad wood units. 10 I think the last point that was made, was how we were going to stick the screen into the 11 frame. Do you recall that statement, Virginia? 12 13 VIRGINIA O'HAIR: Yes, I remember that. 14 15 ROBERT FARKAS: Our supplier has modified the detail so that the screen fits and we achieve 16 an exact duplication of the jam detail. To illustrate this, we refer to our drawings. (See copies of 17 attached shop drawings.) 18 19 ROBERT FARKAS: These shop drawing show that exact duplication, existing conditions and 20 then brand spanking new. The daylight opening is affected by less than the two percent that we 21 had asked for in our job specification. So, we feel that we have met all of our requirements. 22 From our committee meeting, I promised that we would submit to you three full sets of actual 23 shop drawings for the windows. These shop drawings are dimensionally correct and are 24 basically the assembly instructions for the windows. 25 I invite you to review these drawings and understand that they are quantified dimension. 26 Everything is per the last committee meeting that we had. We can also replicate the details on 27 the building, with the exception of the material. 28 29 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: We note that you are including the dogs at the bottom of the. . 30 sashes, which is very nice. 31 32 JOHN OXIAN: The windows that we discussed at one time were going to be clad; was this 33 going to be aluminum clad or vinyl clad? 34 35 ROBERT FARKAS: Aluminum clad. 36 37 JOHN OXIAN: What is the guarantee on these windows regarding paint and whatever else need 38 be as compared to the aluminum clad windows? 39 40 - PAT WERNTZ: Either way it is a ten-year warranty to the owner. 41 42 JOHN OXIAN: This includes painting and everything? 43 44 PAT WERNTZ: The paint finish that is used on the Traco window is called a duranar paint 45 finish. It is a ceramic silicon enamel finish, which is baked on at five hundred degrees. The salt, 46 spray, chalk, and sun exposure test, gives thirty years before there is any degeneration to the 47 finish of this material. This is standard with extruded aluminum windows from several 48 manufacturers today. It is, however, very uncommon with aluminum clad wood windows. An 5 I aluminum clad wood window does not have as good of a quality finish as an aluminum window 2 does because they are able to bake the finish on an aluminum window at a higher temperature. 3 Since these windows are a high-grade vinyl/metal product, you are not going to have to worry 4 about painting these windows in thirty, forty, or fifty years. 5 6 ROBERT FARKAS: The details on how they are going to build it are noted on page one of the 7 shop drawings. It is specified as a duranar finish. The finish name as it stands right now is 8 bone white; however, we haven't done the actual match to get the exact color that, we need. We 9 are going to try and do our best to match the color that is there now. 10 11 VIRGIlVIA O'HAIR: We did talk about the wooden windows versus the aluminum windows as 12 replacements. One of our main points was that the paint held better on the wood then it did on 13 the aluminum. 14 The aluminum may be cheaper for your purposes; but it is not necessarily better in the 15 long run. My concern was with the attachments and the sections of the window. Honestly and 16 truly, to me, it looks as though it is a paste on job. You are using large panes instead of small 17 panes. 18 19 ROBERT FARKAS: First of all, the shop drawings were submitted in the bid processing, and 20 we covered this at the committee meeting, that the aluminum clad wood windows could not meet 21 the specified requirements for daylight opening. They had to be too thick and they weren't 22 structurally sound enough to gain us a dimensionally correct daylight opening. 23 Secondly, as far as the finish is concerned, any pure wood window that you paint will 24 require repainting. Within three to five years you will have to repaint these windows again. The 25 finish that we are putting on the aluminum is a duranar finish. It states here on page one, (see 26 enclosed copy), that the finish is warranted for fifteen years. 27 28 VIRGIlVIA O'HAIR: How long has that paint finished been tested? Also, when did they last 29 test that finish? 30 31 PAT WERNTZ: The duranar finish will last for thirty years. The test is done on a continual 32 basis by certified engineers. In fact, duranar finishes will out last anodized finishes. Anodized 33 aluminum will fade faster than duranar finish 34 painted aluminum. 35 The exterior of only one of the brands of windows that was specified is equal to the 36 exterior of the brand of window that we propose to use on the project. There wasonly one 37 product specified and used in extruded aluminum exteriors. All of the other brands used were 38 formed material. There is no that a well -formed clad wood window will support a finish as 39 long as an'extruded aluminum clad window. 40 41 ROBERT FARKAS: The one manufacturer who submitted that equal finish was somewhere in 42 the neighborhood of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. It did not meet the appearance and 43 the anesthetic requirements of the specification; because, it was an aluminum clad wood 44 window. 45 46 JOHN OXIAN: So in other words you're saying that this is the closest you will ever come to 47 what is there now. 48 6 I ROBERT FARKAS: Aesthetically, yes. 2 3 JOHN OXIAN: So you can either put in an original wood window, or you can put in this 4 window. Nothing in between this that you have tried is going to fit? 5 6 PAT WERNTZ: That is correct. As window technology has evolved, we have a few select large 7 window manufacturers who have engineered their products to perform over the intended lifespan 8 of the building. 9 A manufacturer of wood windows is going to manufacture a window that needs to be 10 energy-efficient and do all of the things that it is supposed to do for a period of thirty to fifty 11 years. When they do this, they are re-engineering the window, and the window is no longer 12 manufactured like those wood windows in that building. 13 They have jam liners, block and tackle spring balances, and a whole host of items in there 14 to make them more efficient. These items also change all of the dimensions, as far as the 15 function of the masonry opening, (daylight opening), brick molding dimensions, and window 16 jam thicknesses that can't be replicated today in an aluminum clad or modern window. There 17 still are manufacturers of wood windows that will make a wood window exactly the way that is 18 now; but, you won't get a window that I can say to the South Bend Community School 19 Corporation, here is a wood window that will stand the test of time, because it, won't., 20 You can't get home grown pine anymore, so you have to change to another exotic 21 species of wood. When you do this, the price of the window goes up tremendously. If you had 22 to do a wood window today that would stand the test of time, it would be a mahogany window, 23 or a hardwood window, and it would be four times the price of an aluminum clad wood window; 24 which the owner would still have to maintain the paint finish on. Due to the cost and 25 maintenance of wood windows, there are very few wood windows sold in the northern climate 26 areas. 27 28 There was further discussion between commission members and Pat Werritz and Robert Farcas 29 regarding the windows that are going to be installed at Jefferson School. 30 31 MARTHA CHOITZ: I will move that we approve 2003-0908, Jefferson School, for the window 32 sash replacements in the original building, and new windows in the addition as described to us 33 tonight, conditional upon saving all of the -arch windows and circular windows now existing. 34 35 MARY JANE CHASE: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 36 37 4. 2003-1101; Firehouse Theatre, 701 Portage Avenue, accent lighting, 38 lawn sign with lighting, awning replacement (or repair if possible). 39 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: (Read the Staff Report into the record. See attached). 40 41 Mr. Jim Coppens and Mr. Steve Gergacz from the South Bend Civic Theatre were present to 42 answer questions from commission members. 43 44 JOHN OXIAN: I was here the last time the subject of the canopy was brought up. We did not 45 feel that any changes should be made whatsoever to the canopy. 46 7 I MARTHA CHOITZ: It is my opinion that if you can find a person that can seal the roof again 2 and paint it some more, you will have a better roof there than anything else that you could find 3 today. 4 5 JOHN OXLkN: That is the original roof. 6 7 MARTHA CHOITZ: I have a picture of the place in 1906 right after it was built, and nothing 8 has changed; except, that you can see daylight through the roof again, right Steve? 9 10 STEVE GERGACZ: Yes you can. 11 12 MARTHA CHOITZ: The person who repaired and sealed the roof the last time used some kind 13 of substance that he made himself and it lasted a long time. 14 15 JIM COPPENS: I believe that work was done in 1995. That was the last time anything had been 16 done to the roof. 17 18 MARTHA CHOITZ: Did somebody also paint the roof then? 19 20 JIM COPPENS: Yes, and since then it has deteriorated quite a bit. I think that the roof is 21 starting to rust through and starting to fold in on itself. I don't know if the roof can actually be 22 salvaged at this point. 23 24 MARTHA CHOITZ: Has anybody stated that they could put a new roof on that would resemble 25 the old roof) 26 " 27 JIM COPPENS: Yes, we received three bids from three different companies that stated that they 28 could match the old roof with corrugated steel. (See written copies attached to C of A). Steve is 29 more familiar with these three companies than I am. 30 31 STEVE GERGACZ: The first bid is by J.C. Lauber Sheet Metal Co, the second is by Dudeck 32 Roof & Sheet Metal, Inc., and the third is by Sheet Metal Deluxe. 33 . These companies did manage to send me some samples so that I could get an idea of 34 what the material would look and feel like. It is a very heavy material. I also found out that you 35 can get this metal material in the color that you want when you order it. (Two samples were 36 brought in'for commission members to look over). 37 38 JOHN OXIAN: What do they say about repairing it? Can it be repaired? 39 40 JIM COPPENS: The last time we repaired the roof, as Martha stated, we had a heck of a time 41 getting somebody to do the repairs; because you can't put any weight on the roof. 42 43 Martha Choitz then briefly explained how the last person was able to repair the damaged roof. 44 45 JIM COPPENS: The real problem for us now, is how to restore the roof in terms of its original 46 shape. 47 48 MARTHA CHOITZ: Are the brackets still in good shape? 8 2 STEVE GERGACZ: Yes, we still plan to use the same brackets and the supports that are there 3 now. The only item we plan to replace is the top sheet. 4 5 MARTHA CHOITZ: Will there be any corrugation to it? 6 7 STEVE GERGACZ: I have two samples here that are very similar to what we have now, and 8 they do have a curve. The problem with the existing panel that is up there now is that the ends of 9 it are curving and buckling under. When they install the new awning, they plan to put a support 10 at the end of the awning to prevent this from happening again. 11 12 JOHN OXIAN: Who has come closest to what you want? 13 14 STEVE GERGACZ: We wanted to wait and see what kind of ok we would get to have the job 15 done, and then we would go from there. 16 17 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Sheet Metal Deluxe was not clear in their specifications as to 18 whether they were looking at replacement instead of repair. They did not mention any sand 19 blasting, priming, painting, or overtime labor cost in their bid. It also sounds as if they are 20 planning on coating the existing roof. 21 If replacement were to be approved, usually what the commission requires is that the 22 original item being replaced be stored, wrapped, and safely labeled in a secure place. 23 Would that be possible with this awning? 24 25 JIM COPPENS: No, we do not have any place that we can store this awning. 26 27 JOHN OXIAN: Did Lauber Sheet Metal Company give any drawings? 28 29 JIM COPPENS: No, they did not give any drawings. 30 31 JOHN OXIAN: I read these specs, and the thing that bothers me about these specs is that they 32 mention what they are taking off and they mention what they are putting back on; but, they do 33 not mention how they are going to attach the awning to the former supports that are there now. I 34 would like to see these companies come back with some different drawings showing how they 35 are going to put the awning back up there and how they plan to connect it to the supports that are 36 already there now. 37 38 JIM COPPENS: My understanding with the estimates was that we wanted to replace only what 39 we had to. All of the bracing underneath the awning is solid material that can be utilized again; 40 because it is protected from the weather by the awning, which covers it. 41 42 JOHN OXIAN: That's not what the one from Sheet Metal Deluxe Company, is saying here. 43 44 JIM COPPENS: After I read their proposal, I did not think that it was a very good proposal. I 45 think the other two proposals are much better in terms of getting what we want. 46 47 STEVE GERGACZ: The bid I was most impressed with was from Dudeck Roofing & Sheet 48 Metal, Inc. 9 2 JOHN OXIAN: I think it that if they plan to install a new awning, then the new awning should 3 be an exact replicate of the old awning that is already there now. Can the shape of the awning be 4 exactly replicated? 5 6 JIM COPPENS: According to what they are telling us, yes it can. 7 8 Commission members then proceeded to talk about the sign for the firehouse theater. 9 10 JIM COPPENS: We did get our logo redesigned a couple of years ago. This is what the new 11 logo looks like, (refer to sign design, S2, attached to C of A). What we would like to do is 12 replace the old sign that is there now with a sign that has our new logo on it. 13 14 MARTHA CHOITZ: I did have a sign man from one of the electrical companies come out 15 during this same time. He drew up a plan and he told me where the sign should be located. The 16 location he told me is not the same location as what you have marked on your map. 17 18 JOHN OXIAN: I would also like to recommend that you don't use sodium vapor lights to light 19 up your building. The National Register is totally against using any type of sodium vapor lights 20 on houses or buildings of any type. You should recommend using either a metal halogen light or 21 something closer to an incandescent light. If you use a sodium vapor light you will have a 22 yellowish glare on your building, which you don't want to have. 23 24 MARTHA CHOITZ: The lights will be on the ground then facing upwards towards the building, 25 correct? 26 27 JIM COPPENS: Yes, that is correct. 28 29 MARY JANE CHASE: I will make a motion on 2003-1031, the firehouse theater, that the 30 replacement of the awning and the lighting be referred to the Standards and Maintenance 31 Committee. 32 33 VIRGIl UA O'HAIR: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 34 35 MARY JANE CHASE: Amends her earlier motion to give the firehouse theater a three-month 36 extension. 37 38 5. 2003-1101; Leeper Park Island Tree Trimming, and commencement of 39 dredging and seawall restoration. 40 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: No drawings or specifications have been submitted. It is simply 41 a request from the city forester to have permission to limb up all of the trees on Leeper Park 42 Island to a height of approximately five feet above the ground in order to provide clearance for 43 equipment and for the commencement of dredging and seawall restoration on Leeper Park 44 Island. 45 46 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Noted that no one was present from the City Park Department or 47 the city of South Bend representing this project. IN 2 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Reported one comment and recommendation received from a 3 member of the Leeper Park Beautification Committee, Julia DesLauriers. She recommended that 4 if there is any limbing up to be done, then it is only to be done under the supervision of a trained 5 forester. She also recommended that we not permit the work to be done by the construction 6 crew. 7 8 JOHN LIVINGSTON: I think the city forester could take care of this; because he is a certified 9 forester. We certified the foresters today at the park board meeting. 10 11 MARTHA CHOITZ: I would like to make a motion on C of A 2003-1101, Leeper Park Island, 12 that the trees are to be trimmed no higher then five feet from the ground and that the city forester 13 is to be in charge of all tree trimming. 14 15 LYNN PATRICK: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 16 17 6. 2003-1112; 107 West North Shore Drive; six-foot steel reinforced 18 concrete wall along alley, faced with brick on the yard side and with 19 stucco -like finish on the alley side. 20 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: This application refers to the same property that was the subject 21 of application number 2003-919-4. The previous application was denied and a new application 22 was submitted. The staff recommends approval of the new application and notes that this 23 application was submitted pursuant to recommendations made by Standards and Maintenance 24 Committee at their meeting on site on October 28th, 25 26 JOHN OXIAN: If you approve this six foot wall, regardless of what it is made of, you will be 27 setting a precedent for anyone else on North Shore Drive, Wayne Street, Edgewater Drive, and 28 Lincoln Way East, to come in and ask for the same six foot, five foot, or four foot wall. From 29 now on through there is nothing that can stop anyone from coming in here and asking for that. 30 If you don't believe this, then look at other court cases that have gone to court on 31 situations like this in historic districts in other commission areas. The wall that you want to 32 approve is going to be higher then the four -foot stone walls that are already around Tippecanoe 33 Place, which is a landmark. 34 35 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Every property along that alley already has a wall. 36 ' 37 JOHN OXIAN: That was already there when this area became a district. You have to start from 38 the day that the area becomes a district to the present. You cannot take into consideration what 39 was already there before the area became a district. This has always been true and it even states 40 in your Preservation Plan Book that you make your decisions from the day that the district was 41 formed. 42 43 MARY JANE CHASE: This situation is very different because this lot is higher than the alley. 44 In a lot of other districts the lots- are lower than the alley. Is there anything that says that when 45 your lot is level with the alley then you cannot put up a wall; but if your lot is this much higher 46 than the alley, then what is your solution? 47 11 I JOHN OXIAN: Then you are going to have to state that you are putting the wall there for the 2 purpose of holding back the erosion of the property. This will only take care of part of the 3 problem. If you plan on using the bottom two feet of the wall to hold back the dirt, then what are 4 you planning on doing with the other four feet of wall? 5 6 MARY JANE CHASE: I think the lot is higher up than that. It is about two and a half feet high. 7 8 JOHN OXIAN: Then you are going to have to put in your motion that the main reason you are 9 allowing her to have this six foot wall is to make sure there is no erosion from the property from 10 one side to the other and that the rest of the wall is going to be used for privacy. 11 12 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: I will make a motion that we accept application 2003-019-4 13 resubmitted on November 12, 2003 for the purpose of approving a wall to help prevent soil 14 erosion and to also provide privacy along the north side of the property. 15 16 MARY JANE CHASE: Seconds the motion and it passes. John Oxian abstains. 17 18 KATHY KERR: (Mrs. Sheets' neighbor), stated to commission members that she was not 19 opposed to a wall being built along the back of the alley; however, she was opposed to a wall 20 being built along the east side of the property, that being between her property and Mrs. Sheet's 21 property. 22 24 III. REGULAR BUSINESS 255 A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES (September 16, September 29, October 20) 26 27 MARTHA CHOITZ: Noted that the minutes for October 16 had already been approved, and 28 motioned for approval of the minutes for October 201h with corrections. 29 30 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 31 32 B. STANDARDS & MAINTENANCE COMMITTEE 33 (New meeting to be set no later than Nov. 29) 34 Karen stated that the expiration date for John Oxian's C of A was coming up soon. Martha 35 - Choitz stated that a date has not been set yet to meet with John Oxian and his architect to look 36 over the architectural drawings and plans that he has for enclosing his porch at 742 Sancome 37 Avenue, South Bend, IN. 38 39 C. BUDGET & FINANCE COMMITTEE & TREASURER'S REPORT 40 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: The finance committee met and went over the projections for the 41 budget for 2004. Karen, I, and Gerald Ujdak have been working on encumbering funds and 42 transferring funds to make sure that even though there aren't any increases in the budget for next 43 year, that we are still able to hang onto as much money as we possibly can for our use next year. 44 This information is detailed in the memo that is dated November l Oth. You also have 45 what is known as the location report, which is the accounting report. (See enclosed copies in 46 packet). Karen and I will be meeting on the 3Td Thursday of every month to go over the different 47 bills and to make sure that everything's been paid and is up-to-date. As of today everything is 48 current and up-to-date. If you have any questions please let me know. 12 2 D. LANDMARK COMMITTEE REPORT: 3 1. Choice and purchase of Local Landmark designation plaques 4 (Three type face options: chose Benquiet, Iowan or Raleigh) 5 JOHN OXIAN: I would like to have a motion made to approve the approximate sum that's here. 6 This was not presented to the committee so it is not coming with a recommendation of the 7 committee. I see no objection to the amount; but I would like to have the approval for the 8 plaques before this goes back into committee. 9 10 Martha Choitz asked why the new plaques do not have the state's name printed on them. John 11 Oxian stated that the original plaques never did have the state's name printed on them. He also 12 stated that the new plaques being made were going to be a duplicate of the old plaques. Karen 13 then stated that if the state's name were printed on the new plaques it would affect the price; 14 because the new plaques will have to be a bigger size. 15 16 LYNN PATRICK: I move that this be put back into committee and that we approve this dollar 17 amount. 18 19 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Will this mess up the budget and what we have tried to earmark 20 for 2004? 21 22 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Whether it will mess up the budget and finance depends on how 23 much time it takes to make a decision and how much different the dollar figure turns out to be. 24 25 JOHN OXIAN: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 26 27 2. Consulting Parties Meeting regarding LaSalle Street Bridge to be 28 Nov. 20, 9:30 a.m., at the offices of DLZ, 2211 E. Jefferson Blvd. 29 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: As you know the LaSalle Street Bridge is being renovated. The 30 county is contracting with DLZ to prepare the designs. Members of the Historic Preservation 31 Commission are invited to a consulting parties meeting to be held November 20th at 9:30 a.m. at 32 the offices of DLZ Architects located at 2211 E. Jefferson Blvd. 33 34 JOHN OXIAN: Have you seen the renderings or pictures of any of the designs? 35 36 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: I have seen renderings of the proposed lamps. There are three 37 different kinds of lamps being proposed. Two of them are five part lamps. One of the lamps is 38 designed in a Mission style, the other is done in an Art Deco style, and then there is also a single 39 post lamp that has a high to mid-Victorian style with an acorn shaped top. 40 41 JOHN OXIAN: Is this only going to involve the streetlights or the whole renovation of the 42 bridge? What are they planning on doing? 43 44 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: I don't know. The person who gave the invitation was able to 45 tell me about the proposed lights; but other details will be available at the meeting on November 46 20th 13 1 2 JOHN OXIAN: Including what renovations they are planning on doing to the bridge? 3 4 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: If in fact they are going to do the whole bridge. I believe the 5 county is in some discussion over the finances to do that too. The decision as to the scope of 6 work that is to be done may not be final yet. 7 8 3. Meeting to be set to survey and consider properties along proposed 9 US 31 routes. 10 The Landmark Committee is planning to survey and consider properties along the proposed US 11 31 route. In addition to the public notice of the meeting, the committee is going to invite other 12 interested HPC members to go. 13 14 JOHN OXAIN: We have not picked a date yet because we just got this. I have to talk to 15 Virginia first and then I will let you know. 16 17 E. STAFF REPORTS 18 1. Liaison resignations, volunteers, and nominations in: 19 East Wayne Street Local Historic District 20 Edgewater Place Local Historic District 21 River Bend Local Historic District 22 Riverside Drive Local Historic District 23 (See attached). 24 IV. OLD BUSINESS 25 A. South Bend City Plan Meeting Schedule; invitation to HPC Members 26 27 28 29 30 31 332 334 336 39 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: The South Bend City Plan Meeting Schedule refers to meetings of the Civic Alliance. The Economic Development Commission invites the members of HPC to attend the upcoming meetings, beginning with the one tomorrow at IVY Tech College, and ending with the one December l It at the West Side Democratic Club. A suggestion was made that two commission members be chosen to attend each of these remaining meetings. V. NEW BUSINESS & ANNOUNCEMENTS A. Resolution of gratitude for the liaison service of Julia DesLauriers. B. Resolution of gratitude for the liaison service of Linda Riley. The HPC noted the dedication, long service, and effective communication efforts over the years of these two liaisons. LYNN PATRICK: Moved the adoption of two Resolutions expressing gratitude for the liaison service of Julia DesLauriers, from River Bend Local Historic District, and Linda Riley, from East Wayne Street Local Historic District. CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 14 1 C. Public Library Historic Data Preservation: November 22, 9:00-12:00 2 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Reported on the information made available by the St. Joseph 3 County Public Library at their November 6 reception, which she attended. This reception was 4 held to show off the library's new duplication and computer imaging equipment. The reception 5 was aimed primarily and principally at HPC members. Karen said that it was clear to her that the 6 concerns of the HPC members were not understood by the library director. Most of what was 7 being shown at the reception was intended to show how absolutely wonderful digital duplication 8 can be. We already know that and agree. 9 However, Virginia O'Hair, as well as other commission members, has been greatly 10 concerned about the plan to move the paper documents out of the History and Genealogy Room 11 where they are presently located, and to make publicly available only the computer generated 12 duplicates. 13 There will be a seminar demonstrating how the digital duplication is to be done, to be 14 held at the mail library on November 22nd. Commission members were advised to attend. 15 16 D. NNN Historic Home Tour, Nov. 22, 9:00-4:00, 1005 Portage Avenue 17 Announced by the Director, and HPC members advised to attend. 18 19 VI. HEARING OF VISITORS (None were present to be heard.) 20 21 VII. ADJOURNMENT 22 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Moved that the meeting adjourn. LYNN PATRICK: Seconds the 23 motion and it passes unanimously. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:04 p.m.. 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION OF SOUTH BEND & ST. JOSEPH COUNTY MONTHLY MEETING November 17, 2003 MEMBERS PRESENT: MINUTES 7ch Floor, Commissioner's Conference Room County -City Building, South Bend, IN Catherine Hostetler, Lynn Patrick, Mary Jane Chase, John Oxian, Virginia O'Hair, Martha Choitz MEMBERS ABSENT: Diane Wrobel-Illes, Joann Sporleder, Gerald Ujdak STAFF PRESENT: Karen Hammond -Nash, Director Julie Schutte, Assistant -Director John Livingston, City Attorney Wayne Doolittle, Inspector ALSO PRESENT: James A. Burke, Mary Ann Sheets, Kathy Kerr, Jim Coppens and Steve Gergacz, (South Bend Civic Theater), Pat Werntz and Robert Farkas, (Wright Const/SBCSC), Larry and Gina DeLaruelle, Tina Assimos, Doreen Mesecar I. CALL TO ORDER: JOHN OXIAN: Called the meeting to order at 7:40. II. PUBLIC HEARING A. CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS 1. 2003; Jefferson School, 528 South Eddy Street; window sash replacement in original building & new windows in new addition. (Report of Jefferson School Advisory Committee meeting Oct. 21) Briefly tabled to allow for the arrival of Jerry Ujdak, an Ad Hoc Committee member. See p. 4-5. 2. 2003-0919-2; 721 Lincoln Way East; installation of out -door hot tub & modifications to walled courtyard area. KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Read staff report into the record. See attached. Mr. Burke supplied an amended drawing of his plan, hand drawn by himself onto a photocopied photograph. LYNN PATRICK: Noted that the HPC & the Standards and Maintenance Committee had sent a letter stating that we needed to see the architectural drawings before we could entertain a C of A. Brief discussion was held among HPC members as to whether Mr. Burke's drawing resolved enough of their questions to meet the requirements of "architectural drawing." HPC members remained. perplexed and concerned. 1 2 MARY JANE CHASE: When was this picture taken? (refer to the picture that is included with 3 the C of A). Does it look like this now? 4 5 JIM BURKE: That picture was taken about two and one-half to three months ago, I believe. No, 6 it does not look like that now. 7 8 MARY JANE CHASE: I ended up having to drive past the place a couple of times; because, so 9 much has been torn down that it doesn't look anything at all like the picture you gave us. 10 11 JIM BURKE: Attempted to answer the inquiries made. (See attached memorandum dated 12 Tuesday, October 14, 2003; for a detailed description of the changes Mr. Burke proposes to 13 make to his original application). 14 15 LYNN PATRICK: Repeated the HPC's earlier request for architectural drawings, stating in part 16 as follows: I think that if you were to get some design assistance, you would be much happier 17 with the outcome and it would be better for the house. It specifically states in our guidelines for 18 historic preservation, (refer to attached copy of guidebook, page 35, for entrances, porches, and 19 steps, attached to memorandum dated Tuesday, October 14, 2003), "that the original porch 20 details should not be replaced with materials representing a different period style from the 21 original and it should be done in a manner that does not alter the architectural or historical 22 character of the building." 23 Regarding new construction, (refer to attached copy of guidebook, page 36, section three, 24 for new construction), states, "additions to existing buildings shall be related in height and 25 proportion to the existing structure." Furthermore it states, "that additions may not be 26 constructed that would change the existing facade of a building, alter its scale or architectural 27 character, or add new height." 28 When we're talking about rehabilitation versus preservation, it states, (refer to attached 29 copy of guidebook, page 36), "any style or period of architecture that is incompatible with what 30 exists should not be permitted in the new additions." 31 I think we are dealing with an incompatibility issue here. I think it is because of the lack 32 of experience, not as a craftsman, not as a carpenter; but as an architectural historian. Although 33 the craftsmanship of your building is structurally sound and it meets the requirements of the 34 building department and code enforcement, it still is inconsistent with our guidelines and our 35 goals in an historic neighborhood. Furthermore, I am also trying to obtain some free design 36 assistance for you to try and help you architecturally with your project. I think if you were to do 37 that, it would make a profound difference in the success of your project. 38 39 JIM BURKE: I would be willing to accept any design assistance that you can offer me. 40 41 MARTHA CHOITZ: We really just want to work with you on this. A postponement is the best 42 way for you to have a satisfactory feeling about this when it's finished, as well as the guidelines 43 that we have to obey. 44 45 JOHN OXIAN: There are two things that I don't agree with you on. One, I don't like the two - 46 level deck. When you originally came in for a C of A, you were supposed to put only one deck 47 on. Second, your railing, I agree with Lynn, that your idea of what you are doing there is good; 48 however, I think you have gone too far by using two by sixes for your railings. 2 1 2 LARRY DELARUELLE: I live at 55 Edgewater Drive. I would like to commend Mr. Burke for 3 the work he has done on that house. He has brought that house back a long way from the 4 condition that it was in. I would also like to commend the commission staff on the in 5 work that they have done; obviously, a lot of effort went into doing that. 6 My only remark is that I agree with what Mr. Burke is trying to do; but, I think the only 7 condition that. should be set from my perspective is that whatever he does to the inside'of the 8 building should not rise above the shell of that building. 9 10 LYNN PATRICK: I would like to make a motion to extend his certificate of appropriateness for 11 three months, and then a ruling be made after receipt and review of architectural renderings 12 regarding the. exterior of the house. 13 14 MARTHA CHOITZ: Seconds the motion 15 16 JOHN LIVINGSTON: I would like you to amend your motion to include that Mr. Burke is 17 giving his consent to do this. 18 19 LYNN PATRICK: I would like to revise my motion to extend his C of A for a period of three to 20 six months with the understanding that there might be a change barring illness, weather, or other 21 unforeseen circumstances, and that a ruling be made after receipt and review of the architectural 22 drawings. 23 24 John Oxian then asked Virginia O'Hair and Mr. Burke if they both agreed with the revised 25 motion that Lynn Patrick made. They both stated they agreed with the motion, and the motion 26 passed unanimously. 27 28 3. 2003-0919-3; 322 West Marian Street; replace front & side doors, re - 29 place or repair side entrance, repair roof overhang & soffit, install 30 storm windows, repair or replace porch planking, windowsills, and 31 sill plate of house. 32 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: (Read the Staff Report into the record. See attached). Karen 33 stated that there were some matters, which the commission might be able to approve without any 34- questions. She also stated that there were at least two matters regarding which the commission 35 would probably want more information. 36 37 The owner, Mr. MacDonald, was not present. 38 39 JOHN OXIAN: Which ones are you suggesting? 40 41 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Mr. MacDonald has applied for eight different items, (see staff 42 report attached to C of A, under application items). Staff recommended approving the following 43 application items: Part of item number 2, and items number 3 through 7. However, staff would 44 recommend that those be approved subject to the clear condition that repair is to be done when 45 possible and that any replacement is to be in-kind. 46 I KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: The staff would be most pleased if the same conditions that were 2 applied to Mr. Burke regarding his porch design also be applied to Mr. MacDonald regarding his 3 gutters and downspouts. He should be asked to consult with design or architectural experts, 4 either from Historic Landmarks Foundation, Joann and Don Sporleder, or Notre Dame. 5 6 MARTHA CHOITZ: The same should go for the brackets on the house. Has he already taken 7 some of the Brackets down? 8 9 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Yes. 10 11 MARTHA CHOITZ: Where are the brackets that he has taken down? Those brackets are very 12 essential to that house. I don't think any of this should be done until he has a clear picture of 13 what style of house he has there. Has he also closed up the windows with the transoms over 14 them? 15 16 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: He has nailed pressed wood over both transoms. Structurally the 17 doorframes and transom frames have not been removed. No, the owner does not have the 18 slightest idea of what the architectural style of the house is, which would be another reason why 19 some consultation either pro-bono or with an architect of his choice would be an excellent idea in 20 this case. 21 22 JOHN OXIAN: Why don't we vote this down and tell him that he has to come back in and fill 23 out a new C of A with the condition that he goes out and does the same thing that we are asking 24 Mr. Burke to do, which is to get an architect to come in with recommendations for everything 25 that he is proposing to do to his property? 26 27 MARTH CHOITZ: I think we should try to find out if the work on the property has stopped. 28 29 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: He was red -tagged by the building department and we were 30 assured by the building department that they would keep contractors from working on this 31 property until a C of A has been applied for and granted. 32 The holes in the roof however, are an enormous concern to staff. I really don't want the 33 winter weather going inside that house. 34 35 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: I move that we deny C of A 2003-0919-3; because, the 36 homeowner did not show up with the requested drawings and specifications for this project as 37 extensive as it is. That the recommendations we are discussing tonight be passed on to Mr. 38 MacDonald. 39 40 MARY JANE CHASE: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 41 42 43 1. 2003-0908; Jefferson School, 528 South Eddy Street; window sash 44 replacement in original building & new windows in new addition. 45 (Report of Jefferson School Advisory Committee meeting Oct. 21) 46 Virginia O'Hair gave report of the Committee in Gerald Ujdak's absence. 47 4 1 ROBERT FARKAS: I will summarize what we went through at the advisory committee 2 , meeting. I have with me tonight, Mr. Patrick Wemtz, from Werntz Supply Company here in 3 South Bend, a local supplier for Traco windows, which we recommended at the last commission 4 meeting. 5 1 have brought the shop drawings with me tonight that were a result of the committee 6 meeting that was held on site at Jefferson School. We have made the necessary changes to the 7 design sketches so that we will be able to replicate the exact details of the existing windows. We 8 also discussed at the committee meeting how this would be more possible with the aluminum 9 units than it would be with the aluminum clad wood units. 10 1 think the last point that was made, was how we were going to stick the screen into the 11 frame. Do you recall that statement, Virginia? 12 13 VIRGINIA O'HAIR: Yes, I remember that. 14 15 ROBERT FARKAS: Our supplier has modified the detail so that the screen fits and we achieve 16 an exact duplication of thejani detail. To illustrate this, we refer to our drawings. (See copies of 17 attached shop drawings.) 18 19 ROBERT FARKAS: These shop drawing show that exact duplication, existing conditions and 20 then brand spanking new., The daylight opening is affected by less than the two percent that we 21 had asked for in our job specification. So, we feel that we have met all of our requirements. 22 From our committee meeting, I promised that we would submit to you three full sets of actual 23 shop drawings for the windows. These shop drawings are dimensionally correct and are 24 basically the assembly instructions for the windows. 25 1 invite you to review these drawings and understand that they are quantified dimension. 26 Everything is per the last committee meeting that we had. We can also replicate the details on 27 the building, with the exception of the material. 28 29 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: We note that you are including the dogs at the bottom of the 30 sashes, which is very nice. 31 32 JOHN OXIAN: The windows that we discussed at one time were going to be clad; was this 33 going to be aluminum clad or vinyl clad? 34 35 ROBERT FARKAS: Aluminum clad. 36 37 JOHN OXIAN: What is the guarantee on these windows regarding paint and whatever else need 38 be as compared to the aluminum clad windows? 39 40 PAT WERNTZ: Either way it is a ten-year warranty to the owner. 41 42 JOHN OXIAN: This includes painting and everything? 43 44 PAT WERNTZ: The paint finish that is used on the Traco window is called a duranar paint 45 finish. It is a ceramic silicon enamel finish, which is baked on at five hundred degrees. The salt, 46 spray, chalk, and sun exposure test, gives thirty years before there is any degeneration to the 47 finish of this material. This is standard with extruded aluminum windows from several 48 manufacturers today. It is, however, very uncommon with aluminum clad wood windows. An 5 I aluminum clad wood window does not have as good of a quality finish as an aluminum window 2 does because they are able to bake the finish on an aluminum window at a higher temperature. 3 Since these windows are a high-grade vinyl/metal product, you are not going to have to worry 4 about painting these windows in thirty, forty, or fifty years. 6 ROBERT FARKAS: The details on how they are going to build it are noted on page one of the 7 shop drawings. It is specified as a duranar finish. The finish name as it stands right now is 8 bone white; however, we haven't done the actual match to get the exact color that we need. We 9 are going to try and do our best to match the color that is there now. 10 11 VIRGINIA O'HAIR: We did talk about the wooden windows versus the aluminum windows as 12 replacements. One of our main points was that the paint held better on the wood then it did on 13 the aluminum. 14 The aluminum may be cheaper for your purposes; but it is not necessarily better in the 15 long run. My concern was with the attachments and the sections of the window. Honestly and 16 truly, to me, it looks as though it is a paste on job. You are using large panes instead of small 17 panes. 18 19 ROBERT FARKAS: First of all, the shop drawings were submitted in the bid processing, and 20 we covered this at the committee meeting, that the aluminum clad wood windows could not meet 21 the specified requirements for daylight opening. They had to be too thick and they weren't 22 structurally sound enough to gain us a dimensionally correct daylight opening. 23 Secondly, as far as the finish is concerned, any pure wood window that you paint will 24 require repainting. Within three to five years you will have to repaint these windows again. The 25 finish that we are putting on the aluminum is a duranar finish. It states here on page one, (see 26 enclosed copy), that the finish is warranted for fifteen years. 27 28 VIRGINIA O'HAIR: How long has that paint finished been tested? Also, when did they last 29 test that finish? 30 31 PAT WERNTZ: The duranar finish will last for thirty years. The test is done on a continual 32 basis by certified engineers. In fact, duranar finishes will out last anodized finishes. Anodized 33 aluminum will fade faster than duranar finish 34 painted aluminum. 35 The exterior of only one of the brands of windows that was specified is equal to the 36 exterior of the brand of window that we propose to use on the project. There was only one 37 product specified and used in extruded aluminum exteriors. All of the other brands used were 38 formed material. There is no way that a well -formed clad wood window will support a finish as 39 long as an extruded aluminum clad window. 40 41 ROBERT FARKAS: The one manufacturer who submitted that equal finish was somewhere in 42 the neighborhood of one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. It did not meet the appearance and 43 the anesthetic requirements of the specification; because, it was an aluminum clad wood 44 window. 45 46 JOHN OXIAN: So in other words you're saying that this is the closest you will ever come to 47 what is there now. 48 6 I ROBERT FARKAS: Aesthetically, yes. 2 3 JOHN OXIAN: So you can either put in an original wood window, or you can put in this 4 window. Nothing in between this that you have tried is going to fit? 5 6 PAT WERNTZ: That is correct. As window technology has evolved, we have a few select large 7 window manufacturers who have engineered their products to perform over the intended lifespan 8 of the building. 9 A manufacturer of wood windows is going to manufacture a window that needs to be 10 energy-efficient and do all of the things that it is supposed to do for a period of thirty to fifty 11 years. When they do this, they are re-engineering the window, and the window is no longer 12 manufactured like those wood windows in that building. 13 They have jam liners, block and tackle spring balances, and a whole host of items in there 14 to make them more efficient. These items also change all of the dimensions, as far as the 15 function of the masonry opening, (daylight opening), brick molding dimensions, and window 16 jam thicknesses that can't be replicated today in an aluminum clad or modern window. There 17 still are manufacturers of wood windows that will make a wood window exactly the way that is 18 now; but, you won't get a window that I can say to the South Bend Community School 19 Corporation, here is a wood window that will stand the test of time, because it won't. 20 You can't get home grown pine anymore, so you have to change to another exotic 21 species of wood. When you do this, the price of the window goes up tremendously. If you had 22 to do a wood window today that would stand the test of time, it would be a mahogany window, 23 or a hardwood window, and it would be four times the price of an aluminum clad wood window; 24 which the owner would still have to maintain the paint finish on. Due to the cost and 25 maintenance of wood windows, there are very few wood windows sold in the northern climate 26 areas. 27 28 There was further discussion between commission members and Pat Werntz and Robert Farcas 29 regarding the windows that are going to be installed at Jefferson School. 30 31 MARTHA CHOITZ: I will move that we approve 2003-0908, Jefferson School, for the window 32 sash replacements in the original building, and new windows in the addition as described to us 33 tonight, conditional upon saving all of the arch windows and circular windows now existing. 34 35 MARY JANE CHASE: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 36 37 4. 2003-1101; Firehouse Theatre, 701 Portage Avenue, accent lighting, 38 lawn sign with'lighting, awning replacement (or repair if possible). 39 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: (Read the Staff Report into the record. See attached). 40 41 Mr. Jim Coppens and Mr. Steve Gergacz from the South Bend Civic Theatre were present to 42 answer questions from commission members. 43 44 JOHN OXIAN: I was here the last time the subject of the canopy was brought up. We did not 45 feel that any changes should be made whatsoever to the canopy. 46 7 1 MARTHA CHOITZ: It is my opinion that if you can find a person that can seal the roof again 2 and paint it some more, you will have a better roof there than anything else that you could find 3 today. 4 5 JOHN OXIAN: That is the original roof. 6 7 MARTHA CHOITZ: I have a picture of the place in 1906 right after it was built, and nothing 8 has changed; except, that you can see daylight through the roof again, right Steve? 9 10 STEVE GERGACZ: Yes you can. 11 12 MARTHA CHOITZ: The person who repaired and sealed the roof the last time used some kind 13 of substance that he made himself and it lasted a long time. 14 15 JIM COPPENS: I believe that work was done in 1995. That was the last time anything had been 16 done to the roof. 17 18 MARTHA CHOITZ: Did somebody also paint the roof then? 19 20 JIM COPPENS: Yes, and since then it has deteriorated quite a bit. I think that the roof is 21 starting to rust through and starting to fold in on itself. I don't know if the roof can actually be 22 salvaged at this point. 23 24 MARTHA CHOITZ: Has anybody stated that they could put a new roof on that would resemble 25 the old roof? 26 27 JIM COPPENS: Yes, we received three bids from three different companies that stated that they 28 could match the old roof with corrugated steel. (See written copies attached to C of A). Steve is 29 more familiar with these three companies than I am. 30 31 STEVE GERGACZ: The first bid is by J.C. Lauber Sheet Metal Co, the second is by Dudeck 32 Roof & Sheet Metal, Inc., and the third is by Sheet Metal Deluxe. 33 These companies did manage to send me some samples so that I could get an idea of 34 what the material would look and feel like. It is a very heavy material. I also found out that you 35 can get this metal material in the color that you want when you order it. (Two samples were 36 brought in for commission members to look over). 37 38 JOHN OXIAN: What do they say about repairing it? Can it be repaired? 39 40 JIM COPPENS: The last time we repaired the roof, as Martha stated, we had a heck of a time 41 getting somebody to do the repairs; because you can't put any weight on the roof. 42 43 Martha Choitz then briefly explained how the last person was able to repair the damaged roof. 44 45 JIM COPPENS: The real problem for us now, is how to restore the roof in terms of its original 46 shape. 47 48 MARTHA CHOITZ: Are the brackets still in good shape? 8 2 STEVE GERGACZ: Yes, we still plan to use the same brackets and the supports that are there 3 now. The only item we plan to replace is the top sheet. 4 5 MARTHA CHOITZ: Will there be any corrugation to it? 6 7 STEVE GERGACZ: I have two samples here that are very similar to what we have now, and 8 they do have a curve. The problem with the existing panel that is up there now is that the ends of 9 it are curving and buckling under. When they install the new awning, they plan to put a support 10 at the end of the awning to prevent this from happening again. 11 12 JOHN OXIAN: Who has come closest to what you want? 13 14 STEVE GERGACZ: We wanted to wait and see what kind of ok we would get to have the job 15 done, and then we would go from there. 16 - 17 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Sheet Metal Deluxe was not clear in their specifications as to 18 whether they were looking at replacement instead of repair. They did not mention any sand 19 blasting, priming, painting, or overtime labor cost in their bid. It also sounds as if they are 20 planning on coating the existing roof. 21 If replacement were to be approved, usually what the commission requires is that the 22 original item being replaced be stored, wrapped, and safely labeled in a secure place. 23 Would that be possible with this awning? 24 25 JIM COPPENS: No, we do not have any place that we can store this awning. 26 27 JOHN OXIAN: Did Lauber Sheet Metal Company give any drawings? 28 29 JIM COPPENS: No, they did not give any drawings. 30 31 JOHN OXIAN: I read these specs, and the thing that bothers me about these specs is that they 32 mention what they are taking off and they mention what they are putting back on; but, they do 33 not mention how they are going to attach the awning to theformer supports that are there now. I 34 would like to see these companies come back with some different drawings showing how they 35 are going to put the awning back up there and how they plan to connect it to the supports that are 36 already there now. 37 38 JIM COPPENS: My understanding with the estimates was that we wanted to replace only what 39 we had to. All of the bracing underneath the awning is solid material that can be utilized again; 40 because it is protected from the weather by the awning, which covers it. 41 42 JOHN OXIAN: ,That's not what the one from Sheet Metal Deluxe Company, is saying here. 43 44 JIM COPPENS: After I read their proposal, I did not think that it was a very good proposal. I 45 think the other two proposals are much better in terms of getting what we want. 46 47 STEVE GERGACZ: The bid I was most impressed with was from Dudeck Roofing & Sheet 48 Metal, Inc. 9 1 2 JOHN OXIAN: I think it that if they plan to install a new awning, then the new awning should 3 be an exact replicate of the old awning that is already there now. Can the shape of the awning be 4 exactly replicated? 5 6 JIM COPPENS: According to what they are telling us, yes it can. 7 8 Commission members then proceeded to talk about the sign for the firehouse theater. 9 10 JIM COPPENS: We did get our logo redesigned a couple of years ago. This is what the new 11 logo looks like, (refer to sign design, S2, attached to C of A). What we would like to do is 12 replace the old sign that is there now with a sign that has our new logo on it. 13 14 MARTHA CHOITZ: I did have a sign man from one of the electrical companies come out 15 during this same time. He drew up a plan and he told me where the sign should be located. The 16 location he told me is not the same location as what you have marked on your map. 17 18 JOHN OXLAN: I would also like to recommend that you don't use sodium vapor lights to light 19 up your building. The National Register is totally against using any type of sodium vapor lights 20 on houses or buildings of any type. You should recommend using either a metal halogen light or 21 something closer to an incandescent light. If you use a sodium vapor light you will have a 22 yellowish glare on your building, which you don't want to have. 23 24 MARTHA CHOITZ: The lights will be on the ground then facing upwards towards the building, 25 correct? 26 27 JIM COPPENS: Yes, that is correct. 28 29 MARY JANE CHASE: I will make a motion on 2003-1031, the firehouse theater, that the 30 replacement of the awning and the lighting be referred to the Standards and Maintenance 31 Committee. 32 33 VIRGINIA O'HAIR: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 34 35 MARY JANE CHASE: Amends her earlier motion to give the firehouse theater a three-month 36 extension. 37 38 5. 2003-1101; Leeper Park Island Tree Trimming, and commencement of 39 dredging and seawall restoration. 40 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: No drawings or specifications have been submitted. It is simply 41 a request from the city forester to have permission to limb up all of the trees on Leeper Park 42 Island to a height of approximately five feet above the ground in order to provide clearance for 43 equipment and for the commencement of dredging and seawall restoration on Leeper Park 44 Island. 45 46 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Noted that no one was present from the City Park Department or 47 the city of South Bend representing this project. 10 2 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Reported one comment and recommendation received from a 3 member of the Leeper Park Beautification Committee, Julia DesLauriers. She recommended that 4 if there is any limbing up to be done, then it is only to be done under the supervision of a trained 5 forester. She also recommended that we not permit the work to be done by the construction 6 crew. 7 8 JOHN LIVINGSTON: I think the city forester could take care of this; because he is a certified 9 forester. We certified the foresters today at the park board meeting. 10 11 MARTHA CHOITZ: I would like to make a motion on C of A 2003-1101, Leeper Park Island, 12 that the trees are to be trimmed no higher then five feet from the ground and that the city forester 13 is to be in charge of all tree trimming. 14 15 LYNN PATRICK: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 16 17 6. 2003-1112; 107 West North Shore Drive; six-foot steel reinforced 18 concrete wall along alley, faced with brick on the yard side and with 19 stucco -like finish on the alley side. 20 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: This application refers to the same property that was the subject 21 of application number 2003-919-4. The previous application was denied and a new application 22 was submitted. The staff recommends approval of the new application and notes that this 23 application was submitted pursuant to recommendations made by Standards and Maintenance 24 Committee at their meeting on site on October 28`h' 25 26 JOHN OXIAN: If you approve this six foot wall, regardless of what it is made of, you will be 27 setting a precedent for anyone else on North Shore Drive, Wayne Street, Edgewater Drive, and 28 Lincoln Way East, to come in and ask for the same six foot, five foot, or four foot wall. From 29 now on through there is nothing that can stop anyone from coming in here and asking for that. 30 If you don't believe this, then look at other court cases that have gone to court on 31 situations like this in historic districts in other commission areas. The wall that you want to 32 approve is going to be higher then the four -foot stone walls that are already around Tippecanoe 33 Place, which is a landmark. 34 35 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Every property along that alley already has a wall. 36 " 37 JOHN OXIAN: That was already there when this area became a district. You have to start from 38 the day that the area becomes a district to the present. You cannot take into consideration what 39 was already there before the area became a district. This has always been true and it even states 40 in your Preservation Plan Book that you make your decisions from the day that the district was 41- formed. 42 43 MARY JANE CHASE: This situation is very different because this lot is higher than the alley. 44 In a lot of other districts the lots are lower than the alley. Is there anything that says that when 45 your lot is level with the alley then you cannot put up a wall; but if your lot is this much higher 46 than the alley, then what is your solution? 47 11 I JOHN OXIAN: Then you are going to have to state that you are putting the wall there for the 2 purpose of holding back the erosion of the property. This will only take care of part of the 3 problem. If you plan on using the bottom two feet of the wall to hold back the dirt, then what are 4 you planning on doing with the other four feet of wall? 5 6 MARY JANE CHASE: I think the lot is higher up than that. It is about two and a half feet high. 7 8 JOHN OXIAN: Then you are going to have to put in your motion that the main reason you are 9 allowing her to have this six foot wall is to make sure there is no erosion from the property from 10 one side to the other and that the rest of the wall is going to be used for privacy. 11 12 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: I will make a motion that we accept application 2003-019-4 13 resubmitted on November 12, 2003 for the purpose of approving a wall to help prevent soil 14 erosion and to also provide privacy along the north side of the property. 15 16 MARY JANE CHASE: Seconds the motion and it passes. John Oxian abstains. 17 18 KATHY KERR: (Mrs. Sheets' neighbor), stated to commission members that she was not 19 opposed to a wall being built along the back of the alley; however, she was opposed to a wall 20 being built along the east side of the property, that being between her property and Mrs. Sheet's 21 property. 22 334 III. REGULAR BUSINESS 26 A. APPROVAL OF MINUTES (September 16, September 29, October 20) 27 MARTHA CHOITZ: Noted that the minutes for October 16 had already been approved, and 28 motioned for approval of the minutes for October 201h with corrections. 29 30 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 31 32 B. STANDARDS & MAINTENANCE COMMITTEE 33 (New meeting to be set no later than Nov. 29) 34 Karen stated that the expiration date for John Oxian's C of A was coming up soon. Martha 35 Choitz stated that a date has not been set yet to meet with John Oxian and his architect to look 36 over the architectural drawings and plans that he has for enclosing his porch at 742 Sancome 37 Avenue, South Bend, IN. 38 39 C. BUDGET & FINANCE COMMITTEE & TREASURER'S REPORT 40 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: The finance committee met and went over the projections for the 41 budget for 2004. Karen, I, and Gerald Ujdak have been working on encumbering funds and 42 transferring funds to make sure that even though there aren't any increases in the budget for next 43 year, that we are still able to hang onto as much money as we possibly can for our use next year. 44 This information is detailed in the memo that is dated November 10`h. You also have 45 what is known as the location report, which is the accounting report. (See enclosed copies in 46 packet). Karen and I will be meeting on the 3rd Thursday of every month to go over the different 47 bills and to make sure that everything's been paid and is up-to-date. As of today everything is 48 current and up-to-date. If you have any questions please let me know. 12 1 2 D. LANDMARK COMMITTEE REPORT: 3 1. Choice and purchase of Local Landmark designation plaques 4 (Three type face options: chose Benquiet, Iowan or Raleigh) 5 JOHN OXIAN: I would like to have a motion made to approve the approximate sum that's here. 6 This was not presented to the committee so it is not coming with a recommendation of the 7 committee. I see no objection to the amount; but I would like to have the approval for the 8 plaques before this goes back into committee. 9 10 Martha Choitz asked why the new plaques do not have the state's name printed on them. John 11 Oxian stated that the original plaques never did have the state's name printed on them. He also 12 stated that the new plaques being made were going to be a duplicate of the old plaques. Karen 13 then stated that if the state's name were printed on the new plaques it would affect the price; 14 because the new plaques will have to be a bigger size. 15 16 LYNN PATRICK: I move that this be put back into committee and that we approve this dollar 17 amount. 18 19 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Will this mess up the budget and what we have tried to earmark 20 for 2004? 21 22 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Whether it will mess up the budget and finance depends on how 23 much time it takes to make a decision and how much different the dollar figure turns out to be. 24 25 JOHN OXIAN: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 26 27 2. Consulting Parties Meeting regarding LaSalle Street Bridge to be 28 Nov. 20, 9:30 a.m., at the offices of DLZ, 2211 E. Jefferson Blvd. 29 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: As you know the LaSalle Street Bridge is being renovated. The 30 county is contracting with DLZ to prepare the designs. Members of the Historic Preservation 31 Commission are invited to a consulting parties meeting to be held November 20th at 9:30 a.m. at 32 the offices of DLZ Architects located at 2211 E. Jefferson Blvd. 33 34 JOHN OXIAN: Have you seen the renderings or pictures of any of the designs? 35 36 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: I have seen renderings of the proposed lamps. There are three 37 different kinds of lamps being proposed. Two of them are five part lamps. One of the lamps is 38 designed in a Mission style, the other is done in an Art Deco style, and then there is also a single 39 post lamp that has a high to mid-Victorian style with an acorn shaped top. 40 41 JOHN OXIAN: Is this only going to involve the streetlights or the whole renovation of the 42 bridge? What are they planning on doing? 43 44 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: I don't know. The person who gave the invitation was able to 45 tell me about the proposed lights; but other details will be available at the meeting on November 46 20th. 13 1 2 JOHN OXIAN: Including what renovations they are planning on doing to the bridge? 3 4 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: If in fact they are going to do the whole bridge. I believe the 5 county is in some discussion over the finances to do that too. The decision as to the scope of 6 work that is to be done may not be final yet. 7 8 3. Meeting to be set to survey and consider properties along proposed 9 US 31 routes. 10 The Landmark Committee is planning to survey and consider properties along the proposed US 11 31 route. In addition to the public notice of the meeting, the committee is going to invite other 12 interested HPC members to go. 13 14 JOHN OXAIN: We have not picked a date yet because we just got this. I have to talk to 15 Virginia first and then I will let you know. 16 17 E. STAFF REPORTS 18 1. Liaison resignations, volunteers, and nominations in: 19 East Wayne Street Local Historic District 20 Edgewater Place Local Historic District 21 River Bend Local Historic District 22 Riverside Drive Local Historic District 23 (See attached). 24 IV. OLD BUSINESS 25 A. South Bend City Plan Meeting Schedule; invitation to HPC Members 26 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: The South Bend City Plan Meeting Schedule refers to meetings 27 of the Civic Alliance. The Economic Development Commission invites the members of HPC to 28 attend the upcoming meetings, beginning with the one tomorrow at IVY Tech College, and 29 ending with the one December 11` at the West Side Democratic Club. 30 A suggestion was made that two commission members be chosen to attend each of these 31 remaining meetings. 32 34 V. NEW BUSINESS & ANNOUNCEMENTS 36 A. Resolution of gratitude for the liaison service of Julia DesLauriers. 38 B. Resolution of gratitude for the liaison service of Linda Riley. 39 The HPC noted the dedication, long service, and effective communication efforts over the years 40 of these two liaisons. 41 42 LYNN PATRICK: Moved the adoption of two Resolutions expressing gratitude for the liaison 43 service of Julia DesLauriers, from River Bend Local Historic District, and Linda Riley, from 44 East Wayne Street Local Historic District. 45 46 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Seconds the motion and it passes unanimously. 47 14 1 1 C. Public Library Historic Data Preservation: November 22, 9:00-12:00 2 KAREN HAMMOND-NASH: Reported on the information made available by the St. Joseph 3 County Public Library at their November 6 reception, which she attended. This reception was 4 held to show off the library's new duplication and computer imaging equipment. The reception 5 was aimed primarily and principally at HPC members. Karen said that it was clear to her that the 6 concerns of the HPC members were not understood by the library director. Most of what was 7 being shown at the reception was intended to show how absolutely wonderful digital duplication 8 can be. We already know that and agree. 9 However, Virginia OHair, as well as other commission members, has been greatly 10 concerned about the plan to move the paper documents out of the History and Genealogy Room 11 where they are presently located, and to make publicly available only the computer generated 12 duplicates. 13 , There will be a seminar demonstrating how the digital duplication is to be done, to be 14 held at the mail library on November 22nd. Commission members were advised to attend. 15 16 D. NNN Historic Home Tour, Nov. 22, 9:00-4:00, 1005 Portage Avenue 17 Announced by the Director, and HPC members advised to attend. 18 19 VI. HEARING OF VISITORS (None were present to be beard.) 20 21 VII. ADJOURNMENT 22 CATHERINE HOSTETLER: Moved that the meeting adjourn. LYNN PATRICK: Seconds the 23 motion and it passes unanimously. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:04 p.m.. IW