HomeMy WebLinkAboutAugust 1977o4i istoric p reservation com miss ' i on
- - _ of _south bend and st. joseph county
- -__
-_ _ •__ _ ___ ROOM 1123.000NT•Y CITY- BUILDING
south bend, Indiana 46601 (219 284.9798)
Regular Meeting _ =
- August 15, 1977 -- -
:7.30,.p:m:
3rd, Floor Conference Room - -_
1 ,'_ C to •Ord
all, er.
' n r
2.- Rolf Call`,
= =3. ; Approval of Minutes _ -_ -
=�+. -Treasurer's •Re rt -
5 :' Correspondence.
6: Co mmitt ee" Re its
Po . - - _
- : -- _ -
City` Survey_,.
- : Bridget: and. Finance
Historic Districts
° Historic Landmarks =
- Legal, .. - - __, - _ -
_ Public - Relations_ and Community. Education -___ _ --
_ Standards and Historic Plan
Presidential
Sta ff; ,Report -- - ;
_7`. Old Business - -'
8. New Busines's ;. - - - =
90 "Hearing of `Visitors!;
10. '` Announcements, and Miscellarieoris Matters
-. =11. Add ournment
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION TOTAL BUDGET $]1,425.08
Treasurer's Report August 15, 1977
Line Item
119.1 Historic Preservation Planner
212 Postage
213 Travel Expenses
215 Books
241 Printing, other than office supplies
242 Publication of Legal Notices
243 Photography and Blue Prints
244 Stationery and Printing
Equipment
Legal Services
Technical Assistance
General Office Supplies
Dues and Subscriptions
252
261
263
371
570
go
1977
Budgeted
$8,200.08
300.00
600.00
125.00
x+00.00
200.00
200.00
100.00
50.00
600.00
400.00
100.00
150.00
$3.1,425.08
Balance
$5,283.x+2
226.02
600.00
125.00
x+00.00
100.00
200.00
x+7.77
19.50
600.00
-0-
85.66
150.00
$7,837.37
istoric p reservati on comm iss i
of south bend and st. joseph county
ROOM 1123 - COUNTY CITY BUILDING
s diana 9
5 — so bend in 46601 (z19 284 - 798) - - --
Regular Meeting - _ - =_ - s , Third Floor Conference Room
- = 'Room 323
Monday, August = l5; 1 ; - -- -- -
7:30 p.m._ ; • ; . _ _ {_ _ _ - :..: unty -C ty., B uilding
; Co i uil
14_I T E S
1. _Cali:'to :Order
President' :Jobh Oxian called the= meetingrto `order_,at -_1 p.m.
- = 2. Roll Call __ - _ -
}- MEMBERS _PRESENT: Ms. - Deloris Daviss' n, Mr. F.4 'Jay - N#tz, Mr. John.'.
Oxian, Mr. __Russell•Rothermel,, Mr. -Jack Smith,`_'-,;•.' --
Ms `- Joann Sporleder,' Mr. Ted Wasielevski
MEMBERS ABSENT: Mr.. Al Stiveis, _ Ms . - bVelma Torzewski
- - - -
; OTHERS--PRESENT :
,_ =Ms. Priscilla Dill.�; Doyle, _b�.s: Gertrud =:,-• °,•`..
_ Gilber_t, Mr. (South Bend Tribune); Mr. =_
-
-- - _• - Chris_ 6vergaard,_ Ms: Belle Pendleton -_ -Mrs. Ruth n-
-- -
P r
ice, _ Mz Barbara; Schankerman; Mr _- Joliji2 tamper,
- -
- - - c --
-WSBT (Chasinel 22) • cameraman
A roval •- of Minutes,,
Mr. Jack-Smith made -a motion that• the July minutes be approved' as -
- - _submitted:. Mr: Rothermel_- seconded_ this motion and it passed
mous ly:
�+. Treasurer's Report - -- - :_ --
Mr. Ted Wasielewski distributed copies of the August treasurer's report: - -__
_He announced -:that _the Commission had` a balance -:of $7;837.37: He then -
_ asked Commission; approval to 4 pay the - follow ng ;bills :' Tor-Business = Sys-
terns for, supplies - _$8.12; _to - Gertrud* Gilbert for Miscellaneous - _expenses =
-: - 19.03;-- and`-to Belle Pendleton for-- services:_rendered for_= August'15 to
-- =
- -. September", 15 -= 500:00: - Ms: Deloris Davisson moved that the_ report -be
accepted
and approved - for_payment. - - : seconded - this
motion:; and -,it passed unanimously:
August 15, 1977
Page 2
Ms. Davisson then asked a motion to use a maximum of $20.00 from the
budget to continue renting the typewriter for the use of the CETA em-
ployee, Sandra Mr. Rothermel seconded this motion and it passed
unanimously.
5. Correspondence
Ms. Gilbert wanted direction on whether the Commission wanted. to enter
a subscription to the Landmarks and Historic Districts Commission's
Newsletter. Along with the bi- monthly issues of the Newsletter, peri-
odic litigation charts are sent out. Mr. Smith made a motion that such
a subscription be entered. Mr. Rothermel seconded this motion and it
passed unanimously.
Ms. Gilbert then mentioned that letters, signed by Mr. Stivers, chair-
man of the Search Committee, had been dispatched to all applicants for
the position of Planner who would not be notified for an interview.
Mr. Oxian then made a deviation from the Agenda and opened the meeting
to a Public Hearing on the Odd Fellows Building.
Mr. Smith then made a motion to accept the survey and report that the firm
of LeRoy Troyer had done on the Odd Fellows Building. Mr. Smith read por-
tions of this report. Mr. Troyer had had a meeting with Mr. Braden and had
taken a tour of the entire building. Mr. Brown of this same firm met with
Ms. Gilbert in regaxd to some historical notes on the building and to re-
view the historical data. Mr. Smith summarized that the building was
structurally sound. The building is presently 6010 occupied and Mr. Troyer -
recommended that it be placed on the National Register. Mr. Oxian mention-
ed that the Commission can not afford to do an economic feasibility study
on the Odd Fellows Building. There was further discussion about the im-
portance of this building. Then the motion made by Mr. Smith to have the
LeRoy Troyer report accepted and placed on file was seconded by Ms. Joann
Sporleder. It passed unanimously.
Mr. Chris Overgaaxd, a member of the County Council, then addressed the
Commission. He mentioned that•he was one of the oldest tenants of the
Odd Fellows Building and spoke about its unique style and the certain —
worth it had as an historical landmark. He said that since the publi-
city of this building tenants were reluctant to sign a lease. He said
there were several options for this building and one of them was to
designate it a landmark and have it placed on the National Register.
Mr. Smith declared that at a previous meeting with Mr. Dick Anderson,
one of the owners of the building, was asked about landmark designation,
and Mr. Anderson said he was not coming to the Commission to ask for
landmark status. There was a feeling of "hands off" at this time, but that
he wanted to save the building. Mr. Oxian said Mr. Anderson wouldn't be
against the Commission regarding this matter but only until court suits
are settled. .Mr. Smith said that the Commission, in the past, has taken
the attitude of not going ahead and declaring buildings landmarks unless the
owners approved - except in two cases - ex. Union Station. Mr. Oxian
August 15, 1977
Page 3
pointed out that Mr. Anderson was before the Commission at the caucus
and didn't commit himself either way regarding landmark status for the.
Odd Fellows Building. Mr. Overgaard thanked the Commission for the op -,
portunity of stating his views.
Ms. Price then informed the Commission that she had spoken with Mr.
Brownell of the Redevelopment Commission and had gotten the impression'
that the controversy of the Odd Fellows Building is "just the tip of
the iceberg ". She said the Oliver Theatre Building and the Old Amer-
ican Bank Building were likewise in jeopardy. And if the Odd Fellows
Building is demolished, the J.M.S. Building will be isolated. She
spoke about short term,nnd long term solutions to the problem. She
said there should be an economic feasibility study with firm figures
to rehabilitate the structure. Mr. Oxian mentioned that it costs $20:
per squaxe foot to rehabilitate it and $50. to rebuild. Mr. Smith re-
marked that Rehabilitation should do a feasibility study. It was point-
ed out, furthermore, that buildings that are on the National Register
have a tax break. Ms. Price spoke further on this subject and it was
mentioned that the city needs a number of parking spaces to support the
Mini 14a11 and perhaps some creative designs could be evolved around
keeping the Odd Fellows Building.
Mr. Oxian mentioned that the Commission has not been contacted by any
of the agencies regarding the Odd Fellows Building and the plans for
the city. It was stiited that the plans submitted by the architect,
James Childs, had not been seen by the Commission.
Next, Ms. Barbara Schankerman submitted a petition signed by approx-
imately 200 downtown shoppers, employees, and merchants to urge the
Historic Preservation Commission to take a stand on declaring the Odd
Fellows Building an historic landmark. She likewise read this petition
and a statement revealing her personal feelings in this matter. Mr.
Smith made a motion to accept a copy of the petition and. include it in
the files. There was discussion between Ms. Schankerman and Ms. Davisson
regarding local landmark status. Ms. Davisson said landmark designation
would delay demolition for only one year; it doesn't keep it from being
torn down.
Mr. Ted Wasielewski then had some comments on the caucus meeting. He
said there were several things that concerned him about the present
consortium of owners of the Odd Fellows Building. He said landmark
status requires a certain amount of upkeep. The Historic Preservation
Commission should take a position in this matter, he said. Ms. Davisson
then spoke about professional responsibility for the greater community,
and guarding individual property rights. Mr. Oxian, likewise, discussed
property rights and said the Commission need not require the owner's
consent for landmark status and said we should only take into considera-
tion when deciding the fate of the Odd Fellows Building and its archi-
tectural and /or historical significance based on Troyer's report. Mr.
Oxian said the Commission should get more input.
Mr. John Stamper, an applicant for the position of Historic Preservation
Planner, who *as in the audience, then also spoke about the Odd Fellows
Building and voiced a strong desire that it should be saved. He spoke
August 15, 1977
Page 4
about downtown South Bend. He appreciated the position the Commission
is taking and remarked that he felt the Mayor was not recognizing the
value of the Commission. He felt there are other alternatives to de-
molishing the Odd Fellows Building. He felt the Commission should be.
held in high esteem. bJr. Stamper said an alternative to the Mini Mall
would be to turn the lower two floors of the Odd Fellows Building into
shops. He said there are other architects who should be contacted who
would have other plans for restoring old buildings, and come up with
new places for a parking garage.
Mr. Smith then remarked that the Commission had not rushed into this
controversy. He said that if anything, the plans for the M ini Mall
have been rushed and only one architect was involved. Mr. Oxian said
the Commission has issued a personal invitation to the Mayor to meet with the
Commission and see the plans and '� have not heard anything." Mr. Oxian
pointed out that so far no one has asked the Commission to have any in-
put. Mrs. Price suggested that the Advisory Council of Historic Preser-
vation review the building and get a professional opinion.
Mr. Smith then made a motion that the Commission contact the Advisory
Council on Historic Preservation to give their opinion on the remain-
ing structures in downtown South Bend - Odd Fellows Building, American
Bank Building, J.M.S. Building, Oliver Theater Building, and any other
buildings which they would think would be eligible to be placed on the
National Register. Ms. Joann Sporleder seconded this motion and it was
put to a vote. The motion passed with Me. F. Jay Nimtz abstaining.
Mr. Smith next made a motion for the president to contact, or appoint -
someone to contact, the Mayor, the Redevelopment Commission, the archi-
tects, the owners of the Odd Fellows Building, the developers of the
Mini Mall and the P.T.C. to meet with this Commission to discuss the -
situation of the development of the Century Yxg2l, and the proposed. park-
ing garage and the fate of the Odd Fellows Building. This motion was
seconded by Ms. Joann Sporleder and it passed unanimously. It was felt
that this should be a Working session" and not a Special Meeting of the
Commission.
6. Committee Reports
City Survey
Mr. Ted Wasielewski broght the Commission up -to -date on the progress
on the city survey. He had talked with Brian Crumlish. He asked for
a list of structures that the Commission would like to be included.
He wanted to know if structures rated at 9 and above should be in-
cluded. He said there was considerable left over in the survey to
do more buildings. Ms. Pendleton said she was against carding struc-
tures only rated 9. Mr. Oxian said all superior structures be carded
and that a meeting be held with Mr. Crumlish and the Survey Committee
to decide on the number of buildings to card and potential districts -
be set forth. There was some discussion on this matter. Mr. Wasiel-
ewski asked for input from the Commission on how to proceed. One
idea was to inventory buildings that were 100 years old. He also
wanted to know the general policy on what cards to fill in. He said
approximately 200 structures have been identified. Mrs. Price sug-
gested that the survey identify street stapes, working with features
other than houses in the district.
August 15, 1977
Page 5
Mr. F. Jay Nimtz moved that the meeting be recessed until next Monday,
August 22, at 7:30 p.m.
Reconvened Meeting Third Floor Conference Room
Monday, August 22, 1977 Room 323
7 :30 p.m. County -City Building
1. Call to Order
President Oxian reconvened the August 15 meeting to order at 7:37 p.m.
2. Roll Call
MEAIBERS PRESENT: Ms. Deloris Davisson, Mr. John Oxian, Ms. Joann
Sporleder, Mr. Al Stivers, Mr. Ted Wasielewski
MEMBERS ABSENT: Mr. F. Jay Nimtz, Mr. Russell Rothermel, Mr. Jack
Smith, Ms. Velma Torzewski.
OTHERS PRESENT: Ms. Gertrud Gilbert, Ms. Belle Pendleton, Mr.
John Pauszek
6. Continuation of Committee Reports
City Survey
A?r. Ted Wasielewski said he would set up a committee meeting on
this subject. He also wants a historic district committee meeting
before the September regular meeting.
Budget and Finance
Mr. Oxian remarked that the Commission is going to tentatively bring
up the budget in the city under revenue sharing funds, which would
be brought up during the last session in December and on the first
in January, 1978. Mr. Oxian reported that he had spoken to Pete
Mullen regarding this matter. He then said he had spoken to Mr.
Ferrettie about the addition to the County Courthouse which would
prevent the rain from seeping through the doors and flooding the
tunnel. This particular project of designing was given to the
Crumlish/Sporleder firm to come up with something that would blend
in with the building. Mr. Oxian mentioned that only $3,000 of the
National Park Service grant of $5,000 had been asked for by the
Commission for 1978, leaving $2,000 in the Commissioner's budget
for this project. Mr. Oxian then informed the Commission that the
1978 budget from the County would be approximately $13,000.
Historic Districts
Mr. Ted Wasielewski reported that he would call a meeting of this
committee.
August 15, 1977
Page 6
Historic landmarks
Mr. Oxian reported that he,_too, would call a meeting of this
committee.
Legal
The Commission was informed that the Board of County Commissioners
had retained the services of Joseph Amaral to defend the"Rinderle
appeal.
Public Relations and Education
Ms.' Davisson reported that the October 24th regular - meeting of
the Commission will take place in the lobby of the County -City
Building, beginning at 7:00 P.M. and in conjunction with I.U.S.B.
Center for Continuing Education. She remarked that a video tape
tri1.]. be shown, askii.ng the questions about architecture and poli-
tical decisions. There will be a short meeting and then general
discussion.
She then spoke about the grant from the Nation Trust, which she
felt should be made as a public announcement for it is a very
prestigious award. She spoke about the game: Architecture,
American Style, and said the schools should be involved in this
project. She also said that perhaps a slot on the program for
the next year's annual convention of the National Trust in
Chicago could be used to introduce the game by the Commission,
or something that could take place in South Bend.
Ms. Davisson informed the Commission that the next segment of
"Patchwork" on Channel 34 WNIT will feature Tobi Christianson
spea on the shingle style of architecture.
She again spoke about the grant and.suggested that all people
who were involved with this project should be invited when the
announcement of the receipt of the money is done. Probably early
in October. She said she will proceed zrith this project.
Standards and Historic Plan
Mr. Oxian read a portion of the Minutes of February 3, 1976
which discussed a five -page historic plan. There was general
discussion in this area and Ms. Davisson said there should be
clarification of what the commission has done and what it should
do in the future.
Presidential Report
Mr. Oxian then read a letter from Shales and Company frcm Chicago,
Illinois regarding tax assessments on historic homes. He said
there still was nothing specific, and it just dealt with pre-
August 15, 1977
Page 7
limin aries. He had talked to W. Gaylen Allsop on this question
of facade easements and has the name of a local man who could do -
the He is going to set up a meeting with this gentle-
man to get some input. Ms. Davisson informed the Commission that
she had gotten a good deal of information on this subject from
Ipswich, Massachusetts. It was not, however, called an easement
but a preservation agreement. It was suggested that perhaps H.E.W.
money could be obtained to do this project. Mr. Oxian said that
Mr. Gaylen Allsop had told the Commission that the "scenic ease-
ment law" was available and would be the basis on which to start
the local fascade easement cases. These easements were passed as
covenants. Ms. Davisson said that in Ipswich, each home owner
was paid $1,000 for such an easement. There was a good deal of
discussion on this subject.
Mr. Oxian then read a letter from American Preservation which
asked for names of persons doing restorative work on homes. It
was decided that this periodical was looking for a mailing list
and no further action was taken.
He then brought up a subscription form for Preservation Action
and it was announced that this was a lobby and Mr. Smith should
be asked if he wanted to join.
Staff Report
Ms. Gilbert informed the Commission that under the chairmanship
of Al Stivers, the old Union Station - now called Union Square was
going to have an Art Festival on the forthcoming Labor Day weekend.
A number of artists and craftsmen were interested in permanent
spaces and Mr. Stivers explained that they rented for 10, 12, and
15 dollars. He elaborated on the various plans for the station and
said there would be a restaurant as well as a cocktail lounge. Mr.
Stivers then made a rmtion that the Commission congratulate the
owners in their endeavor to succeed in the renovation of the old
Union Station. Mr. Wasielewski seconded this motion and it passed
unanimously.
Search Committee
Mr. Stivers informed the Commission that to date 26 applicants
had applied for the position of Historic Preservation Planner.
He said an evaluative chart had been set up for each applicant
who would be rated on nine different characteristics pertaining
to the job. He explained four of these could be evaluated fom
the resumes. Mr. Oxian suggested another meeting be held and Mr.
Stivers set it up for Wednesday, August 17, at 7:30 P.M.
7. Old Business
Plaques: Mr. Ted Wasielewski said Mr. Kidder had been in touch with
him and informed him that he had not yet received the plaque for his
landmarked structure. Mr. Oxian informed him that he still has it,
August 15, 1977
Page 8
as well as Mr. Fodrocy's.
Mr. Oxian then requested that letters be sent to owners of all structures
which had been plaqued asking for two pictures of their homes: one show-
ing the plaque as affixed to the outside of the house, and another a gen-
eral view of the house.
Mr. Oxian then spoke about the CETA position for research assistant and
said that at a May 19, 1977 committee meeting, this position was denied.
He talked. with Mr. Kelsenberg and, was referred to lairs. Taylor about this
matter who was going to ask the CETA.Advisory Committee to reconsider
our request for position's application for z'!unding.
8. New Business
lds. Belle Pendleton informed the Commission that she had spoken with
Brian Crumlish and appraised herself of what was being done with the
survey cards. She said he is rating the structures but is not yet
describing the houses. There are, howerver, photos on the cards. He
will describe the structures on the superior homes after consultation
with the Survey Committee. She said the North Shore Triangle is nearly
done and the Hillcrest section. Ms. Davisson said that perhaps Jeanne
Denham could help Belle with the historical research, using the money
the commission has left. Sandy Davis, as well could — help on the research.
It was suggested that Mrs. Denham be hired on a part -time basin, and a
motion was made to do this if money was available. The motion was
seconded and passed unanimously. Mr. Wasielewski said he would check
into the budget to see what is available.
9. Announcements and Miscellaneous Matters
Mr. Oxian read a letter dated.August 15, to Mr. Brownell regarding the
framing of an environmental impact statemtn regarding the downtown area.
Ms. Davisson said the Commission should ultimately write such a statement.
Mr. Oxian then read another letter to the Advisory Council on Historic
Preservation, again asking for their opinion of South Bend's downtown
area. The list of buildings on which such opinion was asked was read.
There was discussion on these matters.
Mr. Oxian next read a letter to Mayor Nemeth and Ms. Sporleder said the
Commission should get a commitment from him.
10. Hearing of Visitors
Mr. Pauszek spoke about whether there was a plan to cover things like - --
the controver j of the Odd Fellows Building, and the projected develop-
ment of the downtown. He talked about the Oliver Theater Building and
the project at C ntral High School. He said they are going to have a
class program there in drama. Then he discussed plans for the Little
Theater and thanked the Commission for its interest in Central High School.
August 15, 1977
Page 9
11. Adjournment
Mr. Ted Wasielewski made a motion that the meeting stand adjourned.
Mr. Stivers seconded it and the Atigmt meeting was adjourned at
9:10 P.M.
SUBMITTED BY: Russell W. Rothermel, Secretary
DRAFT PREPARED BY: Gertrud C. Gilbert
NEXT REGUTAR MEETING
September 19, 1977
Monday —
Conference Room - 323
Third Floor - County -City Building
7:30 p.m.