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HomeMy WebLinkAbout08-12-19 Health and Public Safety 14)13T1-176 • 4'4,6 w a �`� PEACE 186 OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK DAWN M.JONES, CITY CLERK HEALTH AND PUBLIC SAFETY AUGUST 12, 2019 4:20 P.M. Committee Members Present: Jo M. Broden, Karen White, John Voorde Committee Members Absent: Dr. Oliver Davis Other Council Present: Tim Scott,Jake Teshka, Gavin Ferlic, Regina Williams- Preston, Sharon McBride Other Council Absent: None Others Present: Graham Sparks, Lisa Horton, Bob Palmer Presenters: Gavin Ferlic, Chief Scott Ruszkowski Agenda: Bill No. 24-19—Handheld Device Ordinance Committee Chair Jo M. Broden called the Health and Public Safety Committee meeting to order at 4:20 p.m. She introduced members of the Committee and stated, We have one item on our agenda and that is Bill No. 24-19 regarding the handheld device ordinance. Councilmember Gavin Ferlic, 1109 Dewey Avenue, South Bend, IN stated, Just wanted to introduce this ordinance. As I mentioned, I call you over the phone, if for some reason the timing isn't right tonight or we want to delay no rush on this, but it's really just a very simple thing. Distracted driving,there's a lot of data out there that shows distracted driving increases crash rates anywhere from two (2) to six (6) times and distracted driving obviously includes holding a phone to make a call, holding a phone to text. It is illegal currently, I think it is illegal in the State of Indiana to text. However, it's difficult to enforce that. I think a lot of folks can do text because it's difficult to tell the difference between the text and somebody dialing or placing a call. And I think we can just improve overall safety if we had less people on their phones while they're operating a motor vehicle. With that,Chief Ruszkowski has been kind enough to join,to answer any questions regarding this as well. But really that's the extent of my presentation. I'd be happy answer any questions. And like I said,if for some reason you know you'd like to get a little more data or would like to take a little more time with this, I'm certainly comfortable with delaying and certainly doing that. Committeemember Karen White stated, I do have a couple questions Gavin. I understand the importance of safety, but I do have some concerns. As we began to look at the number of quality of life ordinances that we passed, I'm concerned about transparency and the level of enforcement and what does that look like. But also, in terms of the impact that it might have in terms of the INTEGRITY' SERVICES ACCESSIBILITY JENNIFER M.COFFMAN BIANCA L.TIRAoO GRAHAM D.SPARKS - CHIEF DEPUTY/DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS DEPUTY/DIRECTOR OF POLICY ORDINANCE VIOLATION CLERK EXCELLENCE I ACCOUNTABILITY I INNOVATION I INCLUSION I EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 1227 W.Jefferson Blvd.I South Bend,Indiana 46601 I p 574.235.9221 1 f 574.235.9173 I www.southbendin.gov CITY OF SOUTH BEND OFFICE OF THE CLERK r Police staff and a lot of things that are happening now. I think it's a good ordinance, but I'm concerned about the timing. And to look at having the data in regard to the previous ordinance that we have passed just to see it. I don't know how that would work because you have Police Officers that have to see them (the cell phones), right? And so, what would that look like and what is the process? I did see that you have in your ordinance all the fines would go back to the Police Departments for training educational purposes. My concern is enforcement, the timing and also, we have a lot of discussions now and maybe we need to pull all this in. Committeemember Ferlic replied, I'll speak to it from more of an anecdotal perspective, and I'll hand it over to the Chief for more of the technical things. From my own perspective, any land or community that has a hands-free ordinance, I don't make calls. And when I'm in a community that doesn't have one, I typically make calls. It's not good. It really isn't. Because it is distracted driving. And I think ultimately whether or not we're catching every single person, I think ultimately this is more of, I think there's part of the enforcement mechanism. More importantly though, it's just something that disincentivizes somebody for doing it. So again, for myself I would stop one hundred percent (100%) if there was a law in South Bend that said I could not talk on my phone, I would stop doing that.That's just an anecdotal perspective. But from an enforcement perspective, I'll turn it over to chief who can talk about that a little bit more. But again, I'd like to think of this more as not something where we're going to go out and target and have a huge effort behind finding people who are talking on their phones. I think it's more just to discourage folks from distracted driving. And then hopefully improve. Scott Ruszkowski, Chief of Police, 701 West Sample Street, South Bend, IN stated, Just two (2) things, I would love to hear the Council's perspective on this. Are we looking to be punitive as a police department or awe looking for voluntary compliance? So, I'm very curious to verbally hear your responses to that. This is for any ordinance or any traffic offense or any crime for that matter. Are we doing it as a Police Department to be punitive and then maybe receiving those funds to put our training account?That's what a lot of people will presume is going to happen if there's an influx of tickets. And one of the questions I know that had come up, because I know you addressed it with me is, are we doing this for revenue purposes? And the answer to that is, "No." On the same side, no directive has ever been given to not write tickets for any offense. So, I guess what it boils down to, not just this, but with anything, somebody doing thirty six (36) miles an hour in a thirty five(35)mile an hour zone, does the Council want the Police Department to write tickets for that? Rhetorical. Every officer has the discretion whether to write the citation or not and that is up to each officer to make that decision. Whatever happens afterwards, happens afterwards. So, this would be absolutely no different. Committeemember Gavin Ferlic stated, Again, if a delay is necessary to have a broader conversation regarding some of these topics, we can certainly do that, but this is more just this particular issue. And I think again with the texting thing it can help a little bit as well just because I think now folks are using the phone, texting and thinking, okay I can text it because I can say it was potentially just a phone call or whatever it might be. I think this will not only discourage handheld phone calls, which is distracted driving. Or even worse distracted driving, which is texting or watching videos or whatever you drive by and see sometimes. Mr. Ruszkowski replied, I think previously Mr. Ferlic, to one of the points of contentions that we did have was proving that somebody was texting on the phone and the only way to legally do that is to obtain the search warrant. So, we can have reasonable suspicion or probable cause to make a EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY INNOVATION I INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 227 W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend,Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f574.235.9173 TTD574.235.5567 www.southbendin.gov 2 CITY OF SOUTH BEND OFFICE OF THE CLERK stop, but from that point on to issue a citation or even up to an arrest should it be for something else involved you would need a search warrant to prove that somebody was typing on their cell phone. I think the only stipulation to this would be GPS. Correct? I mean you won't hold it in your hand, it would still have to be hands free, but I know this had come up Mr. Palmer with some of the conversations that we've had back and forth, and people have asked me questions about that. GPS on your phone,to my understanding is fine,but it can't be in your hand when you're doing it. Committemember Gavin Ferlic stated, And the same thing, you can initiate calls as long as it's done by voice, or if you start a call when your car is in park. When you're in a safe area and your Bluetooth, where you're not using your hand for the phone call that is still considered hands free by the ordinance. Committeemember Karen White stated, I would like to have further conversation. Chief, when you mention enforcement versus punitive,what that looks like?I think that that's important to have that level and even amongst the Council members so that our expectations could be shared, but most importantly, the public needs to know what we're looking for. Mr. Ruszkowski replied,Absolutely. To your point, Ms. Karen, notably, when we're in the school zones,when school is starting or after school,you'll notice that there's a huge decrease in speeding. That's because they see a police car. So based on call volume, severity of those calls, what the requirement is for the officers to respond to those calls,puts us however many officers we can put in each of those school zones. On top of that, people are going to hypothetically with their cell phone say, Oh my God,there's a cop and put the cell phone down. So how do you catch somebody doing that? Again, that's rhetorical as well. Now we have measures that we can take,but again, it's based on personnel and circumstances. Meaning, what the call volume entails during those hours. Committeemember Regina Williams-Preston stated, We did have a conversation. I think interestingly enough, I think the timing is good,but it's also bad. I think with the climate of what's happening in the community, we're having a lot of conversations about policing and what that looks like. And I have had some calls and people concerned about disproportionality in stops. And we were looking for things like traffic data. So,maybe it's time for us to think about how important is this? It's very important. I like your questioning about are we looking for voluntary compliance or are we looking to just get people? My answer is yeah, voluntary compliance. And it raises awareness and it makes people say, okay, let me take care of this. And it makes our community safer. So that's really important. And you know, the timing issue, it's good in a way because now we've got this on the table, and we can fold this into the conversation that we're having about all of these different policies. So, we can hold both values together at the same time, they're not conflicting. They're actually complimentary. So, I'm excited about that, actually. So, getting that traffic data would be good. You brought up a good point about when you go into one community and you know there's an ordinance then you know you don't use your phone. I remember driving this weekend and seeing signs, is that something that we can anticipate with this, is that there'll be a sign that says this is a hands-free community or something like that? How do people know if they're not seeing the signs? It just reminded me that I saw that sign or sign like that in a community. So that might be something you're thinking about. Committeemember Gavin Ferlic replied, I mean typically, in other communities there's signage that makes people aware, I think using the press to also get the word out to folks in the community. EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY INNOVATION INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 227W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend,Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f 574.235.9173 TTD 574.235.5567 www.southbendin.gov 3 ®CITY OF SOUTH BEND OFFICE OF THE CLERK Committeemember Regina Williams-Preston continued,And so just quickly,two(2)things I think to think about as we're having these conversations and I'm not sure which meeting it might fall under,but around the equity piece. I know I have a really old car, I don't have Bluetooth. So,people who maybe don't have those updated versions, how can we do that? I was talking to my husband about it and he was like, Oh,people get aftermarket stuff all the time. I'm like, okay, whatever. So maybe ear buds or whatever those things are,but those are conversations to be had. And then also, I had a question about other consequences after a stop. Clarifying when we're having that discussion about, once someone is stopped, then does it go to a car search? You know what I'm saying? I don't know, what are the rules and regulations around that, so we can be really clear. Because it might start as a, Oh I saw you on your phone,but the fall out behind that. What is that? Mr. Ruszkowski replied, Well I can help you out there. So reasonable suspicion is what is needed, for a stop. So, I believe that somebody had a cell phone(this is hypothetical), I believed somebody had a cell phone in their hand and I made that stop. Driving is a privilege. It is not a right. So therefore, anything obtained at that traffic stop, where maybe somebody is not licensed, we run information through the computer so somebody could have a warrant. Everything is based off of that initial stop. So, it's fruit of the poison tree in prosecutors' terms. And what is legal and what is not legal from that point on,but anybody that gets stopped driving a vehicle for whatever reason is subject to a licensed check and a warrants check, at the bare minimum because driving is a privilege and not a right. Councilmember Jake Teshka stated, I just wanted to comment. I think one of my early concerns on this was enforceability as well. And then I started to think about if we took that mindset towards everything we do. Should we let enforceability stop us from doing the right thing? And the second (2°d) is just a personal anecdote, and I debated for weeks whether or not to talk about this, but I was recently in an accident. I was at fault. And I can't one hundred percent (100%) say that my phone wasn't a factor. And so, I'm driving around in a rental now, and for the last three (3) or four (4) weeks, my phone has been in the backseat and I need to make a call, I touch the blue tooth button. And I can't imagine if my children were in the car or somebody else's children were in the car that was also involved in the accident. And so, I think it's a good thing for us to do this, even if we're not going to be writing tickets left and right,just to raise the awareness. Again, folks hear it all the time, but until something happens, and look, we're all busy. Gavin said, we make phone calls. There's a lot of us that have, most of us on the Council are working a day job plus this commitment and Lord knows what other boards and those sorts of things. And so, the temptation to use that time,that windshield time to make those calls and those sorts of things. It's clearly there, And so I'm one hundred percent(100%)in support of this.And when Gavin called me,he probably thought I rushed him off the phone, but I said, no, no, no I'm one hundred percent (100%) for it. So, thank you for introducing it and I guess that's my two (2) cents. Councilmember Sharon McBride stated, I guess my comments would be I appreciate the call. I think it's important. At the same time, you know with me, being a director, I just drove from Indianapolis home Friday from the DLC and I was on the phone from Indianapolis all the way back to South Bend, taking care of business that I was out of the office from. So, there's some conflict of, no, I'm not holding the phone in my hand, but my thought did come into mind that I would be driving. There is a time I have to pick up the phone to make a call or speak into the Bluetooth or things of that nature. So, in my mind, thinking if I got pulled over, one (1), I'm not texting, but two (2), is it even legal for me to be on my cell phone? So, I've got a lot of thoughts EXCELLENCE I ACCOUNTABILITY INNOVATION INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 227W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend.Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f574.235.9173 TTD574.235.5567 www.southbendin.gov 4 CITY OF SOUTH BEND OFFICE OF THE CLERK going on about that because most of my work is done via me driving, on the phone and taking care of calls that I couldn't do sitting at a desk or as opposed to even coming on my way from work to here when I'm done with Council tonight, no more calls can happen until tomorrow. So, on my way from work to here, I was making other calls. So,me going back and forth. I mean it definitely is very annoying seeing people irresponsible. You're behind them where they are on their phone and texting and it's horrible. It's very distracting and unsafe. So, I am in total support of the safety piece. But at the same time another issue is that the car I have now, it doesn't have the good old- fashioned CD in it. And so, all my music is on my phone. So, my thought would be, okay, if I'm switching the phone to music, what does that look like compared to whether an officer thinks I'm texting. So those are little things to have to discuss and work out. So that was just my thought on that as well. Committeemember Gavin Ferlic replied, I think within the ordinance, I think there is a, touching a phone once to initiate either the start or the end of a call is acceptable within the ordinance. It's having it in your hand, scrolling through it or doing whatever, that's what we're looking to avoid. It's looking to just raise awareness and hopefully have a lot fewer people doing it. Again, driving from Indianapolis you have a long stretch of roadway where it's legal to talk. Committeemember Ferlic went on, But no, I do think there's enough options out there. My car doesn't have blue tooth in it, and you can buy a twenty-five dollar ($25) little device you can put on your windshield or your visor, and you can talk through that. Committee Chair Jo M. Broden stated, A couple pieces. To the chiefs comment about voluntary or punitive, some changes that you might want to consider would be expanding the failure to make payments to either sixty(60)to ninety(90)days. A thirty(30)day window could miss somebody's paycheck. And when that hits in their abilities. So that might be good,just to look at an expansion of that. The other suggestion is maybe to have a reset opportunity. You have that subsequent violations are $25-$250. But maybe there should be a reset opportunity figured into this so that if someone is violation free for a five (5) year period or, whatever. Make it up, but something that actually gets somebody out of this cycle. A diversion type element to this.And I even put the word, is there an education video or something that could educate people about the overall dangers that could be interjected into this whole process so that we're not just slapping people and they're not getting the lesson because of the fine. But they got the broader understanding of the overall danger. Another question is, is there any contemplation about when we expand to the whole area of the City, every City street, is there any concern that our school zones may become less protected because of workforce inability to cover? You know what I'm saying? We're asking the same static number of officers to patrol everything. Is there any concern about the actual school zones possibly becoming less safe? Mr. Ruszkowski replied, No, And I think that's relegated specifically to school zone. Whereas if this ordinance were to go into effect, any officer on patrol, whether on or off duty, would witness a violation to be able to make that traffic stop. Right now, it would only be in the school zone during those specific hours. Committee Chair Jo M. Broden asked, And is that piece, it's $250, this is not a change? Mr. Ruszkowski replied, No. EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY INNOVATION I INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 227W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend,Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f574.235.9173 TTD574.235.5567 www.southbendin.gov 5 ®CITY OF SOUTH BEND OFFICE OF THE CLERK Committee Chair Jo M. Broden replied, Okay. It's the same. And then with regard to the Section 21.34, the positive find moneys. In that section two (2), in terms of reporting, perhaps consider adding like the number of citations. But then also, in addition to the City Clerk, I would actually encourage circling in the Council President and or the Health and Public Safety Chair and Vice Chair. That way we have a sense of advocacy on this over time. Committeemember Gavin Ferlic stated,For sure.And,just a comment that I had is monthly maybe a little bit excessive on that. Quarterly I think would be fine. I don't know how the rest of the Council feels, but I feel like a quarterly update would be good. Committee Chair Jo M. Broden replied, And then my last thing is, do we know, or is there data relative to the difference between talking or sort of the hands free element of this that we're trying to get at versus just the general distraction of the other non-hands free? Committeemember Gavin Ferlic replied, Yeah, it's a really good question. So distracted driving, there is a lot of data out there that shows distracted driving leads to an increase in crashes. Whether or not there's, I shouldn't say collecting data,but there's not consensus data on when the ordinance is passed, it restricts using your hands with a cell phone that then results in a decrease in crashes. However, there's no control group. We're not stopping technology and capping the number of cell phones at the same time. So, I would argue that even crashes remain the exact same. You still introduced say over the past five (5) years, probably two (2) to three (3) times the number of cell phones or devices that people are using. Committeemember Ferlic continued, So, it's really difficult because there's no control group to study or there's no way to stop time, have everybody use their existing technology for three (3) years and nobody gets a cell phone that didn't have a cell phone to then study. Would there be a reduction in crashes? I would argue that looking at the data, you would, again, if you didn't have hands free ordinances in those places,you would see a spike as opposed to just flat line in standard quota in crashes. Committee Chair Jo M. Broden replied, But, wouldn't insurance reports reflect some of the data in terms of the culprit? Whether or not it was hands-free or whether or not it was Bluetooth? Committemember Gavin Ferlic replied, If the people are honest. Yeah. Committee Chair Jo M. Broden asked, And then the likelihood of getting a warrant that would actually get the enforcement capacity. Committemember Gavin Ferlic replied, So again,not necessary.When you're looking at somebody texting, if they're holding the phone in their hand and they say, I was just making a call, a warrant's not necessary because by holding the phone in their hand, that is now a violation of driving. That's the difficult thing to enforce with the State law regarding texting, is because if you're texting on your phone and somebody pulls you over, you should just say, I'm sorry. Mr. Ruszkowski stated, Just two (2) perspectives. Number one (1), when I make a traffic stop, which is much to, a lot of people ask and do whatever, but I do make traffic stops, and my intent on the traffic stop is to save a life. Whether it's that driver, somebody else, or both of them, or more.That is the only intent,and I would hope to God that all officers feel the same way. However, EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY INNOVATION I INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 227W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend.Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f 574.235.9173 TTD574.235.5567 www.southbendin.gov 6 •CI1I'YOFSOUTHBEND OFFICE OF THE CLERK discretion, given the perspective again, we have 95,000-100,000 calls a year for service. About 25,000-26,000 case reports. Out of that, we have between 2000 and 3000 arrests every year. So, doing the math, discretion obviously is the better part of Valor. Officers are choosing not to make arrests. They could, they legally can. However, long form shipping to the prosecutor and giving somebody a chance to rectify whatever it is that they've done wrong from that perspective. So, I see this no different. I think there was some Councilmembers that asked the question, well how did this drop off? Did it mysteriously disappear? I'm paraphrasing of course, I love the tribune articles. Yes ma'am, I know. And it is, it's pure anecdotal. Again, you see a squad car you're not going to do, you shouldn't be doing anything wrong in the first place. When you see a squad car, your likelihood of doing something wrong greatly diminishes, I would imagine. I would hope anyway. Committemember Gavin Ferlic stated, I was just going to say,Chief Ruszkowski it's not necessary for you to be here tonight. If anybody has any additional questions for the Chief,just so he doesn't have to come back if we're even considering this this evening. Committee Chair,Jo M. Broden stated, we will now open the meeting to the public to either speak in favor or opposition to Bill No. 24-19. Seeing none, is there anyone here from the public wishing to speak in opposition of Bill No. 24-19? Seeing none, we will turn it back to Committee. Committeemember Karen White stated, I wouldn't say for me personally, I'm not against the ordinance. I do have some questions. I want to make sure it's the very best and just listening to the conversation and I'm really intrigued, Chief Ruszkowski with you know, for us as a Council and I would say that I would venture to say even from the community perspective to look at those two (2) focuses. You know punitive versus enforcement and compliance. And as we look at our ordinance of course you know part of it is that enforcement piece but the main part of it is that individuals would comply. But from a law enforcement perspective I think we need to have additional discussions, not necessarily as it relates to this bill, but also Chairperson Broden a lot of the different language that you just shared, I think that it would be beneficial, and I would give it to the Committeemembers but also to the fellow Councilmembers. I believe it would give us some additional time to really flush this out. Committeemember Gavin Ferlic stated, If I sponsor to recommend maybe we continue for three (3) meetings out and then maybe in the interim, again, I know it's tangentially related, but maybe there's a conversation and this will help the conversation. I think there's a bigger conversation that must be had. Then we can come back in three(3) weeks and decide after three (3)meetings. Committee Chair Jo M. Broden stated, It sounds like it could be a motion. Do you want to make this a motion? Committeemember Karen White replied, I'll make a motion that based on the conversation, but also with input from our residents as well, we will continue if it's the will of a petitioner to do so. Councilmember Ferlic do you have a timeframe and what your expectations would be during the interim? Committeemember Gavin Ferlic replied, Yeah, it makes sense, maybe September 23''. If that's a good date for everybody, the 23rd of September and then again if, you know, if there's an EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY INNOVATION INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 227 W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend,Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f 574.235.9173 TTD 574.235.5567 www.southbendin.gov 7 CITY OFSOUTH BEND OFFICE OF THE CLERK opportunity for Health and Public Safety to maybe also attend a committee meeting. Again, I don't think it would be focused on this really much at all. I think it's the bigger discussion that folks are wanting to have, but I think that it is related so that would be great. Committeemember White made a motion to continue Bill No. 24-19 on September 23, 2019 at the Health and Public Safety Committee meeting. Committeemember Voorde seconded this motion which carried by a voice vote of seven (7) ayes. With no further business, Committee Chair Broden adjourned the Health and Public Safety Committee meeting at 4:47 p.m. Respectfully Submitted, 'r Jo Broden, Committee Chair EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY INNOVATION INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 227 W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend.Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f574.235.9173 TTD574.235.5567 www.southbendin.gov 8