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HomeMy WebLinkAboutRM 12-04-81SOUTH BEND REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION REGULAR MEETING December 4, 1981 1200 County -City Building 10:00 a.m. 227 W. Jefferson Boulevard Presiding Officer: Mr. F. Jay Nimtz South Bend, Indiana 46601 President 1. ROLL CALL Members Present: Mr. F. Jay Nimtz, President Mr. Lloyd E. Robinson, Sr., Vice President Mr. A. Peter Donaldson, Secretary Ms. Paula N. Auburn, Member MemberslAbsent: Mr. Robert J. Cira, Assistant Secretary Legal Cc unsel: Mr. Kevin J. Butler Redevel pment Staff: Mr. Patrick M. McMahon, Executive Director Mrs. Ann Kolata, Deputy Director Mr. Kevin Horton, Deputy Director Mr. Jeff Rush Mr. Herman Lee Mr. Rick Pitts, Acquisition Specialist Mrs. Hedy Robinson, Relocation Specialist Ms. Fines Mosby, Secretary News Me ia: Mr. Ms. Mr. Mr. Mr. Mr. Ms. Ms. Mr. Mark Peterson, WRBR Rebecca Marr, Reporter, WSBT -TV Larry Ford, Reporter, WSJV -TV John Winey, Photographer, WSJV -TV Dave Anderson, Reporter, WNDU -TV Dick Nemeth, Photographer, WNDU -TV Maureen McFadden, Reporter, WNDU -TV Jeanne Derbeck, Reporter, South Bend Tribune Frank Vellner,.Photographer, WSBT -TV Guests: Mr. James D. Conley Mr. Jack Davis Mr. Tim Motts Mr. Bob Nusbaum Mr. John Voorde, Councilman Mr. John Vanck Mr. Ron Mujhi Mr. T. Brooks Brademas Ms. Karen L. l:iemnec Ms. Leslie J. Choitz Mr. John Leszczynski, City Engineer Mr. Lewis McGann, President, Common Council Mrs. Kathryn Brookins South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 1. ROLL CALL (continued) Guests Qcontinued): Communit Staff : Development Ms. Irene Mutzl Mr. Robert Poluntro Mr. Harvey P. Roland Mr. John Pence Mr. Lewis Coppens Mr. Jerome Vogel, TRANSPO Mr. Stephen Lobdell, TRANSPO Mr. Donald Wiggins Ms. GlendaRae Hernandez Mr. Stephen Luecke Mr. Ralph Costello Mr. Joseph Ettl Mrs. Kathryn Baumgartner, Director, Bureau of Housing Mr. Paul Falduto, Community Development Mr. Nim z: Commissioners Auburn, Donaldson, Robinson are pre lent. We have a quorum, we are in business. 2. APPROV4 OF MINUTES Mr. Nim z: Do I hear a motion concerning the minutes of the Res heduled Regular Meeting of Tuesday, November 24. Mr. Dondldson: So moved. Mr. Robinson: Support. Mr. Nim z: Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the approval of the minutes signify by saying "aye ". Commissioners: Aye. Mr. Nimiz: Contrary, no. That is carried. 3. APPROVAL OF CLAIMS MINUTES OF REGULAR NIEET- ING OF NOVEMBER 24, 1981 WERE APPROVED Mr. Nim z: There are three claims from Historic Land- CLAIMS APPROVED marks F undation - the Chair cannot vote on these and he disqualifies himself. There's also a claim for South- old and places Mr. Robinson in the chair. Mr. Rob- jection nson: Do I hear a motion for approval or re- on paying these bills? I South Bend Commission Regular Mee �edevelopment ing - December 4, 1981 3. APPROVAL OF CLAIMS (continued) Ms. Auburn: Move that they be approved and paid. Mr. Don ldson: Support. Mr. Robinson: Its been moved and supported that we pay the bills. All in favor? Commissiloners: Aye. Mr. Robinson: The motion carries. Back to you, Mr. Chairma . Mr. Nim�z: Let the record show I refrained from voting. The authorized claims, totalling $50,7300.88, are: REDEVEL MENT DISTRICT CAPITAL - 1972 Edwin D. VanRyn, Architect $ 297.50* TOTAL $ 297.50 TEMPORARY LOAN REPAY FUND R -57 Ella Pope $ 2,746.92 Ehler's Insulation Company & Ella Pope 147.00 TOTAL $ 2,893.92 MONROE- SAMPLE AREA PROJECT Donald Inks - Petty Cash $ 84.50* Community Development 1,139.84* Eckler- ahey Lumber Company 86.40* Rosalie Darnell - Parcel 14 -36 4,000.00* The Abstract & Title Corporation Parcel 7 -15 124.00 The Abstract & Title Corporation - Parcel 1 -5, 1 -6, and 7 -2 147.00 Indiana Bell Telephone Company 30.96 Indiana & Michigan Electric Company 7.32 Ralph D. Lauver 450.00 Southold Heritage Foundation, Inc. 2,409.60 ** Territorial Engineering 100.00 Historic Landmarks Foundation of Indiana 40.89 ** Irvin J. Manuszak, Clerk 25,800.00 TOTAL $34,420.51 3 South Bend qedevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 3. APPROVAL OF CLAIMS (continued) P.E.A. EAST BANK Donald Inks - Petty Cash $ 10.50* TOTAL $ 10.50 P.E.A. - R -66 Donald Inks - Petty Cash $ 9.47* Kevin J. Butler 200.00 Credit Bureau of South Bend- Mishawaka 10.00 I & M Electric Co. - IOOF Building 11.46 Macri J welers 172.38 PDH Office Products 61.89 PDH Office Products 33.30 South Bend Tribune 25.32 Superintendent of Documents 38.00 Tri -Cou ty News 29.03 Ronald E. Gettel 100.00 Dorothy Z. Deane 197.40 Payroll. 11/14/81 through 11/27/81 8,079.19 Bartholomew, TOTAL $ 8,967.44 P.E.A. - 312 LOANS Allied onstruction $ 36.12 Victoriz Duggan 323.67 Victoriz Duggan 71.73 St. Jos ph County Recorder 17.00 St. Jos ph County Recorder 34.00 Ronald ohnson 238.12 Carter Lumber & Carlis Phillips 262.88 Warren Flumbing Service & Edward or MerlE Soltesz 960.00 Community Development 84.00 Ronald ohnson 1,371.34 Big "C" Lumber & Victoria Duggan 452.95 Sears, Roebuck & Company & Lena Harley 53.33 Bartholomew, Inc., & Lena Harley 224.31 McKinley Lumber & Hardware Center & Lena Harl y 14.56 TOTAL $ 4,149.01 GRAND TOTAL $50,738.88 M South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee i ng — December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNIOATIONS Mr. Nim z: We are going to move up the Communications. We have two letters. A letter From Councilman Voorde: aeeembetc 2, 1984 M&. F. ay N"imtz Attotnet at Law 511 W. ot4ax Avenue South Bend, Indiana 46601 aeaA Mk.l N.initz: I take Aiz oppotttunity to exWLas my deepest appte.ei:- ation to you, to membeu o4 the Commission, " wet 2 as M.k. McMahon and the Redeveeopment sta4i 4otL your coop - eAation with the CouncU',s Human Ruounca and Economic IDevetopnent Committee. A/s Mn. McMahon Iso /succ.i.nct2y noted the expnes/s ed punpos e o4 the meeting ways to b k i.ng va souls "ntetAe/sted pattti.e/s togetheA in one 4otut.m to out- tine the 4acts ke:eat ve to the ptoeess Redevetopmevit went through overt the past seveitat yearns in theiA attempt to tcezotve the 4ate o4 the Odd FeUows 8uitding and to cteaA the aiA o4 any allegation o4 obstucetc.on otc wrongdoing on anyone'ls pcut t in deuti.ngs with potenti.a,2 devekopetus. In 2ange measute she above punpolses weAe saVz4actokity addAe/s s e d. An undeAtying puApols e �o& the meeting and maybe the pAi- matt.y tea6on I and others on the Coune"it got ,involved at th,/s tate date ways that by th i /s adm.i tted.2 y eu try otc y but unique Aeview, some in4onmation might come to tight that would p ompt the sta44 and commission to cons.ideA theit deci/s,io to demot, sh the buitdi:ng. The que/s on now is, were any tce eevant 6ae is btcought to fight that would pt ompt such a nev.iew? In my opinion seveAat oblseAvationz bean eon.6idettati,on: 1. Overt the past two yeasts inteAest tcates and inve/st- ment ea "tat avaitabte 4otc deve.2opett,.s attemtping to put a viabZe package togetheA have been at tesz than conducive tevet to /say the .east. Recent development, howeveA, indicate an im pt o ving climate pe.,%haps making something 4ea,sibte today that ways not yesteAday. 2. Even in tight o4 the un6avonabte economic condi- tiom o6 the t ecent past there Est t seeniz to be at tea�st k" South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Pee ing - December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNIQATIONS (continued) two dev opetu who maintain tuethec vigococusty they ace ready, wiUing, and able to pnoeeed with tehabiitation. The devclopeu even all -uded to the pvzzibitity o6 a joint v ntuxe. whetce they have been fudged ,inadequate in the past, petchaps now they otc any othetus can show new detaited evidence they can peA4mm. I shoutd add, any pnopots using the $200,000 in Community rDevetopment 6und6 shoutd be used stt ictty on a Ninety pay -back bay iz; and o6 douue, as it is the desi&e o6 apputentty eveAyone eoncecn d, to bt ing thin to tcezotution expeditiowsty us ptudence. attowts any heron idetcation by the Comm""ion ,shoutd be hoc oney a .6pecli6ic petc.iod o4 time. One de- vetopex mentioned 90 days. 16 this iz a xea�i6tic tength o J time to put a package tog etheA ",su ing peA6ocmanee, I 'sugg t the ceock .5tatut cunning a�teA the 6iAzt of the yecft by which time any changes in the Commission it�set6 w.(U ha e been cea2.%zed. 3. 1--inatty, with "Home Rute" gcawting the Mayot and the Cou e-,2 ditect appointments to the Commizz ion the makeup J4 the Comm.i "ion may change and with it the des.itce to eo nue .eJ /3otrt�s to save the buitding. None o6lthe above need to be eonzideced o6 eouAze, i6 there axe eomOeU,incf ceatsows to demoti6h the buitding. To date the ptcimati.y xecusows hoc demot Lion o4jetced have been: 1. Ttanzpols dezite to proceed with duign o6 the i& "hoped hoc" new 6aciZity. 2. The potentiae tia itity incutviced by the City exam a Ding tma cotta. Answett. g the �.i&zt ceazon I "k .i6 thetce woutd be any xea- zon Tca po coutd not wait a white tongetc? Addxests ng the ti,abit ty quation, it hat, been pointed out may inv the the expend.ituAe of isubtstaantiat funds to weathete- .ize and "make za�e" the sPLuetute. 16 tehab,i Pitat ion i6 to be cons exed, thin eoutd eat iZy be tooked upon ass an in- vestment .in �yutuAe tax cetutws and �shou.2d too be negotiated .in any evetopec'z pcopotsat. Again, �he key izzue temainz, -us these eompet ing reason to take th buitding down now? I. South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNIgATIONS (continued) In zurnmxty, it is my hope that be6ote demolition eont aets cute avivided.. the Commission and the sta66 catte6utty tteview a t, in6 tcmati.on bttought to .tight at ouA meeting " wet2 ass at t. othcA .in6tuencing 6actoAz a66ecting the potentiae o6 the Odd Fet tows, ass a &ehabititabte stAuetutte. A6 d.i66 Butt, tedious, and agonizing ass youA e66oAt6 to ,save the buitding have been I tAust you wilt. take one t"t took be- Otte ,in6.6uing yvutc 4inat vehd.ict. There may yet be the opp ttunity to tvin jaituAe into zucce6z. Again thank you 4ott youA eoopettation with the Council. Re,s pee tju22y, S/ John Voottde Chan man Human Re6outcee,5 6 Economic Deveeopment Committee And ther here is a letter from Mr. McGann handed to me this morning: DecembeA 3, 1981 Pitt. F. Jay Nimtz South B nd Redevetopment Commi.5.6 ion County- tity Buitding South B nd, IN 46601 Deatt Mtt. N,imtz: I wound tike to thank you, the Commi�lsion Membeu, and the Redevet pment Sta�6 Gott attending ouA Committee meeting on Monday. 16eet that eveAyone now hays a betteA undeutand- ing o6 Afte process th.aat.wals used in consideAing devetopeu Gott the Odd FeUoviz Building. I /stiu have seveAat queationz concani.ng the Comm.izzion'Is deci,sio4 that the Odd Fet2owls Bu tding ,ins unable to be de- veloped land th.eAe6otte lshou2d be demoti6hed. FiUt, c app ea" nd pttobabty most .impotrtant, why didn't the Commis - e cote negotiation frights to Mt. Bttademaz, when it he hats the ptanz, the pttozpecti.ve tenants, the 7 COMMUNICATION FROM COUNCIL - MAN JOFIN VOORDE WAS ACKNOW- LEDGED AND PLACED ON FILE (RE: ODD FELLOWS BUILDING DEMOLITION) South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNICATIONS (continued) neeeszs y Ainanc.i.ng, and the expeAienee to zuccesz4utty de- v eeo p e building . Second, .i t appea&6 that the present Odd FeUows .6d to .ins 6at to vaeu bte a toeation, in the 'utute development o6 down - town, to tocate a buz tetcminat. ThiAd, by d.% t the Comm>�6zion o44eA the buitding 4ot pubtic ate, with of without pet4otmunee testA ctionz, and Zet the 4tee entetcptrize zystems take oven.. In view o4 these unanzwe&ed questions and the appatcent de- ,siu e o4 one of mote individuatz to devetop the building, I wound ge that the Redevetopment Commils6ion not awatd a demo on contti.ac t at this tune. I would teas o naL t,m t at� We also is writt culty re Chet suggest that the Comm,izzion estabtish a time pet,i,od, in which deve2opeu cou.Cd make one t to deve.Cop the bu.i.ecGi.ng. SinceAe2 y, S/ Lew" A. McGann Ptesident lave -a letter from David Albert, attorney, which ?n in sort of old english script. I had diffi- iding it. I don't know... Mr. Robinson: I had a little bit of a problem with it. Mr. Nim�z: Have the Commissioners gone over this? Mr. Donaldson: I haven't read it. Ms. Auburn: I tried. Mr. McMahon: The letter basically states that he appre- ciated the meeting with us the other night, having an opportunity to speak, and that he would hope that the Commission would give consideration to extending the efforts to save the building. I think that's a capsul- ized sum ary of what was sated in this letter, Mr. Nimtz. 0 COMMUNICATION FROM COUNCIL PRESIDENT LEWIS McGANN WAS ACKN0WLEDGED AND PLACED ON FILE (RE: ODD FELLOWS BUILDING DEMOLITION) COMMUNICATION RECEIVED FROM DAVID ALBERT WAS SUMMARIZED AND PLACED ON FILE (RE: ODD FELLOWS. BUILDING DEMOLITION) South Bend redevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing — December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNIOATIONS (continued) Mr. Nim z: Now it's not the intention of the Chair or the Commission to run a re -hash of everything that went on the other evening. I would be glad to have any succint com- ments and so on. Mr. Lobdell of the TRANSPO Board and Mr. Vogel have been in contact with me and since they were not at the ,eeting the other night, they have asked to be heard. lAre you the spokesman, Mr. Lobdell? Mr. Lobdell: I guess to answer that, Mr. Chairman, I am afraid so. Mr. ZaVisca, our General Manager of TRANSPO, is well acquainted with our grant application for secur- ing the parcel of land downtown,happens to be out of town so Mr. Vogel and I are going to attempt to fill in in a sense o the word. On that basis, I think that we should stick with a prepared statement so that we get the story straigh . t1r. Nimtz: We're pleased to have it. Mr. Lobdell: We have a review on the TRANSPO /Century Mall Transfer Project and we'd just like to take a moment and step back and take a look at it. First, we want to say that we do want to do this project. It was at the Mayor's request, shortly after he took office, that TRANSPO ini- tiated t e grant application with UMTA to secure funds for this land. Next, we think that we do need to be downtown in the Cen- tury Mall Program. Studies and planner projects under earlier administrations have continued to call for the TRANSPO transfer area to be located near the Century Mall Project. We want to do this project. We want to do this project as meeting a long time commitment for better ser- vice to TRANSPO patrons, and which in general benefits the Sout Bend - Mishawaka community in terms of improved public transportation. We also feel there is a need to move now. We have made application to UMTA for this location in the Century Mall area and after a number of procedural reviews, we are pleased to say that UMTA, under the new Washington Ad- ministration, has responded by approving our grant. I say we are pleased in view of the anticipated cut backs that are going to occur. Again, the funds are now avail- able. W feel that in order to represent TRANSPO patrons and the taxpayers in general on a proper basis, that we must do verything possible to move ahead while these funds ar available now. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 9 South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNIgATIONS (continued) Mr. Nim z: Thank you, sir. mission have any questions did you desire to... Mr. Vogul: No. Do the members of the Com- of Mr. Lobdell? Mr. Vogel, Mr. Nim z: Any members of the Commission have any questions or Comm nts that you wanted to make to Mr. Lobdell or Mr. Vogel? If not, would you please leave your statement with the secretary. Thank you, Jerry. Mr. Lob ell: We'll leave them all around the place, Mr. Chairma . Mr. Nim z: We may have to run some more copies, we have quite a few of the press and T.V. and screen and actors guild a d so on here. The Chair would be pleased to recogni e anybody else, but as I say, we are not going to get int a long discussion here. I think that we spent five ho rs the other night on this thing and, of course, we have been on it several years. Ms. Mut l: I'm Irene Mutzl of South Bend. I have an article here from the South Bend Tribune dated Septem- ber 23, 1981. This announces that TRANSPO did receive a grant of $228,000. It also goes on to state that David Wells, Fresident of the local bus system, said that now they will be in a position to negotiate with the Rede- velopme t Department for acquisition of a bus transfer lot at the rortheast corner of Main and Jefferson. This says nothing about demolishing the Odd Fellows Building to put this in. So I have a feeling and I am questioning the demolition of the Odd Fellows Building. This sounds to me like after this grant was received should I suggest that thE City Administration stepped in then and kind of influenced the pushing down of the Odd Fellows Building. Now I Went by the Odd Fellows Building this morning. We know th t for several years we have seen the deterioration, the unfortunate deterioration of that building. That buildinc though is only 52 years old, so we question whe- ther or not is this building safe, is it repairable? From re ding of Mr. Brademas' past accomplishments, I would t ink that gentleman is intelligent enough to know whether or not it is repairable and I don't think that he's going to do it for charity, I think it will be a profit naking venture. Now if a 52 year old building should te demolished, if you take 52 years old, there's quite a few of us in this building, we ought to be demo- lished. 10 South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNICATIONS (continued) Mr. Nim4z: Including the Chairman. Mrs. Mu zl: Fifty -two years old isn't very old and we have many, many homes in South Bend that are 52 years old, and we are still paying taxes on them. So I question, might not the repair of the Odd ,Fellows Building encourage other private development downtown which we do need so badly. Now if the City doesn't run everything or try to run every- thing, maybe other developers might be encouraged to come in also and I am sure its been pointed out as it was in one of the letters this morning, that that will make a tax base. Py other comment or question would be: will there be more employment downtown from demolition, or will there be more employment downtown from rehab. So, I questioned the peo le, I was out to a meeting a couple of nights ago, and I questioned the people there and they cannot under- stand a 52 year old building being knocked down. I thank you. Mr. Nim z: Thank you. Mr. Lobdell, as I understand the meeting that we've had with TRANSPO, if TRANSPO received the building there is no way you could use the building, it woulc have to come down.for the bus terminal plans, is that right? Mr. Nim z: Any other comments or so on? Mr. Bra emas: Mr. Chairman, I think that maybe since this is a... and I will try to make mine very brief. Mr. Nim z: Thank you. Mr. Bra emas: I have not spoken to Mrs. Mutzl for a num- ber of months now so she has not set this up. Mrs. Mu zl: He didn't ask me to come. Mr. Brac with the this in City COL the buil the Mayc to come 'We do nc for a bu figurati said, "ti emas: I have, however, met just a short time back Executive Director of the TRANSPO and I have said public before but not to the Commission, but to the ncil. At that time when I read in the paper that ding was apparently to be demolished based upon is letter, I contacted him and said I would like down and see your plans. He responded by saying, t have any plans,!' I said, "I don't mean the plans ilding, I mean basically a site plan and the con - on of how your buses would move in and out:"' He ell, we really don't have very much on that." I South Bend qedevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNIOATIONS (continued) said, w at do you have?" He said, "I would be glad to show you whal we have.` He was very kind and I went down and he gave me xeroxes of three 8 -1 %2 x 11 drawings that had come out of ihe so- called Gruen Report that was done for design plan for Century Mall. On the first one he showed me, it showed he area between Washington and.Jefferson, from Main back ab ut to the space that the TRANSPO now is using, but the area where the GSA Building was to go was shown to be omitted and the area around the Odd Fellows was shown to be omitted with a notation, and this is a matter of public re- cord, sc you can all check and see if and if it is disap- peared t all, I will give you a copy of mine, which clearly says th Odd Fellows Building to be.omitted if it can be saved, ome statement to that effect. Clearly it was in the minds of TRANSPO that their building or theiy situation could be fully and adequately handled even if they didn't get the corner where the GSA Building would gc and if they did not'.get the Odd Fellows Building. Subsequ ntly, he said, "in terms of our application, we had to show them about how much space we would have, and this is what we sent, the exact same drawing that they had made an area on which excluded the GSA Building and the Odd Fellows Building that was sent in-." He then said to me, "but this is what we have now," and that was the latest drawing which shows the Odd Fellows Building being included but going down on Washington Street, and I said to him, "well, why would you do that ?" He said, "well, I am not sure, t is is what the Redevelopment Commission said they wanted LS to have." And I said, "how long have you been in the com unity ?" He said, "well, not too long." I said, "have you been here long enough to know that Washington Street is a one -way street ?" I said, "you mean to tell me that YOL are going to bring all the buses on a one -way street down in front of that new building which is con- stricted down there ?" He said, "well, they haven't really figured that out yet, they haven't hired an architect, they haven't hired an engineer, they really haven't figured it out." So let me summarize on that by saying that in my view, as a trained Planner who's worked a long time with Transportation engineers, the best place for TRANSPO is right in the downtown area, I agree with that. Mr. Nim z: You've changed your position then from the other night. Mr. Bra" to push emas: Well, I am just suggesting that if it comes to shove, that we could move the building if you're 12 South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Meeting - December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNISATIONS (continued) going tc tear the Odd Fellows Building down, if that is a pretext for why you've got to have the TRANSPO there. I'm suggesting that as an alternative move it down where you already have cleared land. And certainly my location 'al- ternati e location would be much superior to the configura- tion th t apparently the Redevelopment Commission suggested to TRAM P0. But that could be verified by a competent Traf- fic Engineer and I won't argue that point this morning, other t an to say that the present general layout of the TRANSPO lot is superior to any other configuration that has been sh wn and TRANSPO has gone on record by their drawing as sayi g they do not need the Odd Fellows Building in con- junctior with that. Now, if I may, Mr. Chairman, let me just fi ish my presentation here very, very quickly. Again, 3ou are all wonderful people, you all have your own occupations, mine happens to be in Urban Planning, and I don't b lieve you understand the impact of a building of this ma nitude on retail sales and other aspects in down- town, n t to mention public parking. We've got a garage down he e at Main and Colfax Streets which is going to go belly-u one of these days because no one is using it. Now we woul have 350 -400 people in that building at all times that wo ld be working in there that need to park. We would even talk with the fellow that runs that particular parking garage Ebout making some long -term arrangements to lease us up to 1 0 units in that so that the City would know that they wo ld have that much money coming in. You don't have to take my word for it, go to any competent business leader in down own South Bend and ask them if they believe that the inf Sion of 3 to 400 workers, office type workers in the dow town area would have a very positive impact upon their s les. And I would suggest that possibly a good per- son wou d be Mr. Abrahams, who is the President of Robert- son's, who is also the Chairman of the Downtown South Bend Council and, frankly, I would be willing to stand on what he says If he says absolutely, that it is what we need, I would think that this Commission should take some cog- nizance of that. Mr. Nimtz: Thank you. Mr. Bra emas: Alright, now here is what I am going to ask the Commission before you open your bids, if I may. Just four qu ck points: Number one, I reiterated that we would like the 90 days and I think that the letters from the President of the Commission and Mr. Voorde, Chairman of the Committ e say it better than I can, we should have 90 days. We woul like to have the roof flashings repaired. I have 13 South Bend qedevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing — December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNISATIONS (continued) talked et some length with Trisco people and they have agreed that, ir 90 days, if the roof flashings are properly repaired, that there should not be anymore damage than has already been inflict d upon the building which could not be remedied until the spring. They do not believe that any irrepairable damage has beer done, if it can be stopped now. I have talked with Mr. Mo6 from All Weather Interiors, the people who a couple of years ago did some $1,400 worth of temporary repairs up there, and he has indicated to me that he believes an adequate job of repairing the roof and the flashings could be done for not to Exceed $5,000. I have it in my notes here suggested that thE Commission authorize not to exceed $10,000, in view of the fact that several times that much money had been spent on studies with Borger Jones, the real estate people in Chi- cago, a d so forth, and I don't think that a minimum of $5,000 certainly should be. Very importantly if you give us an oppor- tunity to bring back our proposal, now that we have rather belatedly, about three years belatedly, an outline of the evaluation criteria we will speak directly to this evaluation criteri , but we want to have the Commission to bring in some so call Ed outside experts, if you will, that the Commission would a ree upon and we would agree upon. We think someone in fina ce and someone in construction, and I don't see that that wo ld be a problem, and we will be willing to agree to the decision made by these outside people. If we cannot satis- fy them then we would be willing to completely withdraw. We would e pect, however, that the Commission would say likewise that if we can satisfy people who are recognized as authorities in the areas of construction and financing that we should be given t is opportunity. In terms of the $200,000 that was committ d by the City, we would ask that that be held on a stand-b) basis with the understanding that if our financing plan dic not require it we would not ask for it, but if it did, we would, with a clear understanding that it would be paid back in a timely manner. Finally, in order to try to start t e ball rolling to show how the tax incremental financ- ing could work, and to show in our view as a demonstration what thE City should be doing in conjunction with private develop rs, we would ask that the City agree that the rebuild- ing of the sidewalks, the public sidewalks and the public land- scaping and street furniture, if you will, that would be agreed upon by us and our architects and by the City should be handled by the ity. It would be a rather token amount, but I think it would give us an opportunity to show how the new tax incremental financi g, which has just now been approved by the Indiana Su- preme Curt, could function. Finally, I am not going to read all this, but this was in yesterday's Wall Street Journal. 14 South Bend Redevelopment Commission Regular He ting - December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNICATIONS (continued) It says, "lower cost of rehabilitation lure commercial de- velopers," it says, "rehabilitating commercial buildings isn't recommended for people with weak nerves. Unforeseen problems have a way of coming up to give building owners sleepless nights, but the economics of rehabilitation sug- gest that the rewards can compensate for headaches," and I am ona who I think has some pretty strong nerves. We know that this can be a very, very, very lucrative project for the City of South Bend, the tax payers of South Bend, and for ourselves as well. We have talked with our finance people and we believe that if we have the 90 days, that we can put this back together and meet all of the requirements and objectives of this Commission. Thank you. Mr. Nim z: Thank you. I don't know whether TRANSPO wants to respond or not. Plans and drawings were submitted by them to UMPA, isn't that right? I don't know what you were shown, Mr. Brademas, but certain plans were submitted to UMTA, aiid the approval of their grant and project was based upon th se plans, is that right Mr. Lobdell? Mr. Bragemas: I have those, Mr. President. Mrs. Brookins: I would like to say something. Mr. Nim z: Well now, Mrs. Brookins, if you're going to go into th same thing as you did the other night, we have heard t at. Now, if it's something new, we would be pleased to have You. Mrs. Br okins: Thank you. Why would you doubt that I would wish to speak on the same thing twice. I don't like having my inte rity impugned. Mr. Nim z: Well, as I've said, we are not going to rehash the whole thing as the other evening. Mrs* Brookins: Then don't presume I am going to, you have already stated that once. Mr. Nimtz: I'm just telling you. Proceed. Mrs. Brookins: I think it was improper of you to do so. Mr. Nim z: Then all right, you have a right to your opinion. 15 South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNJI ATIONS (continued) Mrs. Brookins: I would like to recommend that this Com- mission not demolish the Odd Fellows Building for the followi g reasons, and I would like this to be a general policy Edopted by this Commission and,hopefully, the new Commission will be thinking along these lines: Basically, is if it can be fixed, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Waste n t, want not, and this resolution would be of the followi g order: Resolve not to demolish anything unless tax pro ucing construction of greater value is committed, and abs lutely committed to that location that will be of greater tax producing value than that which is demolished. Now this is a general, theoretical statement, but I think that if this Commission adopted this policy we would not be face with the corn fields of Downtown South Bend, and I think that I would recommend strongly that as a Redevelop- ment Commission, you have failed terribly in this procedure, you haVE not replaced tax producing things that in fact are on the tax rolls with something that will be on the tax rolls. Now my understanding was that the Odd Fellows Build- ing at some point in the {past, and I do not know what point, ad an assessed valuation of $300,000. It is also my unde standing that the TRANSPO thing will be tax free. as such you would be most unwise and, in fact, unprofes- sional to demolish something that is capable of increas- ing our taxes, our tax revenues at a very little risk to this Commission, I must say and a great benefit. I think you haVE basically a no lose solution, you can simply do what we suggest. And I would again I will meet with you, Mr. Nim z, and we can work on this resolution and I would hope that you would it under serious consideration as a guiding policy of the Redevelopment Commission. Mr. Nim z: Well, we're not going to get into a lot of answers on this thing, but I presume that the First Bank - Marriot Center is on the tax roll. Is that right? Mr. McMahon: Yes, Mr. Nim z: Do you have any idea what the assessed valuati n is? Mr. McM assesses time, bi constru somethi hon: No, I do not, because it has not been fully since it is just coming up for assessment at this t it represents approximately $30 million worth of tion, at say a 1/3 ratio in a 10% rate, that's g in the range of $3 million. 16 South Bend qedevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing — December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNISATIONS (continued) Mr. Bra4emas: There is no abatement on that building? Mr. McM hon: There is an abatement on that building as there i in every building in the R -66 area that comes up for onstruction or substantial improvement, includ- ing the Odd Fellows. Mr. Nim z: Mr. Wiggins, I see you here. Do you want to spea as to your competency as a former President of the iommission? Mr. Wiggins: I recognize'Tom Brademas here, and Tom has.beeri one of the leading people in this country, I think, in planning and in taking advantage of the whole b siness of redevelopment. He has been a con- sultant to many communities, set up redevelopment de- partments, established a firm that was in this business and successfully sold the firm to somebody else, and I am surprised that Tom hasn't responded to the remarks that Mrs. Brookins just made. Because what she has said here is the complete opposite of what redevelop- ment was intended to be. What she is saying is that we should let this thing go until every building is completely torn down and fallen in of its own accord and then it will rebuild, and I think that possibly would h ppen. But the whole idea of this was that communities could not afford to have this process take place. qow there is some loss involved in some ways of thinkin , but the loss that's involved is certainly less to the community as a whole, and it does regenerate, and that is what it's all about. The history of the Odd Fellows Building has been rather varied, but the thing hits been kind of a white elephant for a great many years and there is a very good possibility that it stil will be. I would like to suggest to the Commiss on, if it is appropriate, that should you elect to grant the 90 days and go ahead with this, that all of the -nformation involved in this, the finance plan, all the rest of it, including the subsidy by the City be made a matter of public record and make sure that everybody knows because we have a position here where very many people who are not privy to the real gust of what's happening, are trying to make decisions or influence de- cisions and the scripture Ephisians tells us that if the blind leads the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. I'm afraid that's the very area that we're getting into here. It also gets down to that business when we were kids, if you didn't like the way something came out, you tried iz again, you know, best 2 out of 3, 3 out of 5, 5 out o .7, it goes on forever. At some point a deci- sion ha to be made. 17 South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing — December 4, 1961 5. COMMUNISATIONS (continued) Mr. Nimtz: Thank you, Don. Mrs. Br okins: I would like to clarify, what are you say- ing thal I said, sir. Mr. Wiggins: You are saying that the City should not de- molish anything, invest in anything unless something... Mrs. Br okins: I said the Redevelopment Commisiion should not dem lish anything unless it has reason to suppose, well unless it has a definite commitment. Mr. Wig ins: Unless the thing can be replaced with some- thing oi more value, right? Mrs. Br okins: More tax generating value. I think this is a ba is sensible part of enterprise. You don't tear down so ething unless you have something better to replace it with I think this is the basic sensible part of en- terpris . You don't take on something unless you have somethi g definite. Mr. Wiggins: We aren't talking about private enterprise, we are ialking about the City of South Bend. Mrs. Br okins: I didn't know you were a socialist, sir. Mr. Wiggins: I'm not a socialist. Mrs. Br okins: Private enterprise is not a system of anarchy. Mr. Nim z: All right. Mr. Wig ins: Are you opposed to government or what? Mrs. Brookins: I'm opposed to the Redevelopment Commis - sion's fast policies. Mr. Wiggins: I gathered that. Mrs. Brookins: And I think that all one requires is eyes to see how ineffectual and how unwise they have been anc I, sir, think that if the evidence is before you, we have a Century Mall Place and no Century Mall. South Bend qedevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing — December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNICATIONS (continued) Mr. Nim z: The Chair will call a halt to this. We've heard.. you know. Does anybody else want to say some- thing? Unknown Yes. Mr. Nim z: Oh, excuse me, I didn't know you were here. Mr. McG nn: I'd just like to make reference back to the letters which I submitted and Councilman Voorde submit- ted. T ere are five names on those two letters of Mem- bers of the Common Council and attempting to secure sig- natures we had trouble coordinating work schedules, otherwi e we would have had more than that. I would say at 1his point that the only person of the nine,: the only me ber of the Council out of 9 that is definitely opposed to this is Mr. Taylor, so I would say that either informal or impassive support, eight members of the Cou cil are in support of a... Mr. Nilz: Well, of course Mr. Serge told me the other night t{�at he was not for it, I don't know. Mr. McG4nn: Well, he told me the opposite, so. Mr. Nim z: Mr. Voorde, Councilman Voorde, excuse me, I didn' know you were here Mr. President. Mr. Voorde: It's all right. Mr. Ni:mtz and Members of the Comnission, the letter I wrote obviously asked the Commission to take another look to perhaps with a dif- ferent ferspective based on some factors that may have been em hasized or brought to light at the meeting last Monday. One of the questions I asked in the letter was would T ANSPO lose their money if a 90 -day or some other term of time, if some delay were granted, and I might say too that its never been my intent that TRANSPO, or my desi e, that TRANSPO shouldn't be downtown approxi- mate to the Century Mall. I just feel that they could be adequately served in any number of locations in this general area and, therefore, question whether or not they sp cifically need the Odd Fellows site to proceed. And the other thing is, I have a newspaper article that I was j st recently, that was printed in the Chicago Tribune December 2, written by the Real Estate Editor there, and it seems to support the development of down- town office buildings as condominiums, and that was one of the uggestions that was made at last Monday night's 19 South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNISATIONS (continued) meeting and I won't read the whole article, but one paragra h here reads: "a major reason to go forward with this, with commercial condos, is a change in the tax law this year that is expected to make the con- cept more attractive to purchasers. The change allows for faster depreciation and the ability to claim in- vestment tax credits in old rehabilitated buildings." I belie e that was Mr. Raker's concept or at least a mix of condos and in the he was your, he had sole negotiating rights at one point. This would seem to lend even more strength to that kind of an approach, if you sere going to reconsider. I think that one more conment might be that I don't question the moti- vation or the rationale the Redevelopment Commission has usec over the years in trying to make Downtown South Bend a better place. It does, I would ask though how man among us at this point, and maybe hindsight is clearer, would not like to see the old Library buildin , the old City Hall, perhaps even Kresge`s, and I might be stretching the point because it was such a large structure, but even the Oliver Hotel, now rehabilitated and still functioning in one use or anot er. I think there are far more communities around the country now that are doing what are really amazing things by rehabilitation rather than by knock- ing thi gs down and then looking for investment capi- tal to come in and do things. I am not saying you should Embrace one exclusively of another, but there seems tc be once you knock something down, it's for- ever gore, and both approaches need to be considered. I'll pass this article from the Tribune around if any- one would care to look at it. Mr. Nim z: I want to conclude this. Thank you very much, Councilman, for being here. Mr. Ettl contacted me yesterday and asked to be recognized today. Re- cognize a senior member of the Bar, Joseph Ettl. Mr. Ett' little k good fr- privy. thought neighbor Fellows All I ci in excel the Odd . I got here a little late so I might be a it out of line, I hope not, but I heard my end Don Wiggins say that somebody had to be I didn't know what he meant because I always that a privy was out in the back yard in my hood, and that's about the place that Odd Building is today. It's out in my back yard. n say is that I have been a member of the Bar s of 40 years and spent a good many years in Fellows Building, and it's a dump. It's a 20 South Bend Commission Regular Mee �edevelopment ing December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNI ATIONS (continued) first -class dump. I talked to them for years about re- modelin , and they said there wasn't much they could do with thE building, it's built on 9 -foot centers, 9 feet wide, a d...tried to get around your desk, 30 feet long, you could have an office 30 x 30, but there wasn't any - thing else you could do with it. The heating system was terrible even after they converted from City heat to private heat- never turned the register on on the second floor facing the JMS Building, you couldn't open the windows because of the noise ... echoed off the JMS Build- ing. T ere was so much heat escaping through the walls and pips that I turned the air - conditioner on all winter long, all winter, believe me, even when it was below zero, it was the most uncomfortable 20 years I ever spent in my life. One thing that I could say for the building, the price was right for what you got. I think it's an eyesore to the City, it has no history whatsoever. I'm a member of this community... It has no historic value and I t ink we would be better off with it going down. Thank y u. Mr. Nimtz: Thank you, Mr. Ettl. Mr. Bra emas: Mr. President, I must respond. The centers are 15-loot on centers, not 9 -foot on centers. I have the engineering drawings to show that and, again, I think this is clas is and I am glad that Mr. Ettl has spoken out. With all due respect, he is obviously a honored citizen here in the community, but he is an attorney and I would suggest that I don't know very much about law, although my legal counsel tells me that I have got to stop trying to practice law, and I'm trying to do that. It is clear, Mr. Ettl, with all due respect, that you don't know any- thing a out architecture and you don't know anything abour reconstruction, and this is my field and I can tell you I dc know what I am talking about and that building is full3 feasible of being rehabilitated and it would be an entire new air - conditioning and heating system through- out the building. The building would be refurbished complet ly from top to bottom, two new high -speed elevators would b put in. You would not recognize the interior of the bui ding from what is there now. If you had come and looked it the Ice House Restaurant before we went in, a dirt floor, pigeons and bats flying all around, the walls were sc ling all off and so forth. Today it has character, it is s ccessful, and I would question that anyone in this room co Id come over there and say that this is kind of a 21 South Bend Commission Regular Mee �edevelopment ing - December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNICATIONS (continued) shoddy looking place. The old boiler house, many people, includi g my attorney, God bless him, said Tom, you gotta tar that thing down, that's awful. We went in with fire hoses and cleaned all the old soot off of it, we took out everything, and it is now converted into two small t eatres that are very, very successful. So I guess w at I am trying to say to this Commission is if you are attorneys or in other walks of life, don't dabble where y u don't know what you are talking about, and here you don t know what you are talking about. Now, finally, I think at $2.5 of new construction in the next 6 to 12 months would be a walking shot -in- the -arm, and I would defer to my good friend, Mr. Robinson, to say yes or no- on that but that's what we can bring to the community. Mr. Nim z: Thank you, Brooks. The only thing you left out is that Letha and I eat there frequently. I am going to recognize Mr. Rich Hill, the City Attorney, if he has anything to say, and I think we'll conclude this. Rich, did you,.. Mr. Hil : No, I really don't, there's a few legal mat- ters th t Kevin and I discussed in terms of the ramifica- tions a d I wrote them down. Kevin can best address those. Thank Y u. Mr. Cos ello: I'm Ralph Costello, I'm not from the country, all I've got invested here is 10 bucks that I came up with cause I want to make a buck. I was going to try and demolish the bui ding, okey. Mr. Ni4 z: Well, we haven't opened bids, now don't jeo- pardize your situation. Mr. Cos buildin demolis buildin okey, a ing - -re around buildin I am no have do like to of your ;ello: I backed out, okey. I went through the and I really, my heart hurts to see us try to i this building because it is one whale of a nice 1. Now wait just a minute. I'm in construction, id it's an architectural - -I hate to see this build - tlly seriously - -I went and spent one day running ;rying to find someone who would invest in the and take it over. And I have no ax to grind here, ; from your coontry,I also want to commend you, you ie a nice job on your downtown roots here. I'd go up in the St. Joe Bank and look out and see some town here, but I think personally I feel you're W4 South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 5. COMMUNIOATIONS (continued) doing t e wrong thing by trying to demolish the build- ing. It is a very sound building, better built than about five of the other buildings you can look out through here, and looking from the plans it's got one helluva deep foundation and I don't want to dig it out. It's ve y well built and I hate to see it destroyed, and I h ve nothing to gain or lose with you really, suit yoursel es. Mr. Nim z: Thank you. Unless there are objections from the Mem ers of the Commission, we will proceed to open bids. 4. RECEIPTIAND OPENING OF BIDS R DEMOLITION CONTRACT NO. 43 Mr. Butler: Mr. Chairman, perhaps while I am opening these bids and taking a quick look at them to review the legal s fficiency, I'd like to make a statement for the record. I have said to the Members of the Commission and to the staff for a number of months now that the Odd Fellows Building is a serious liability risk for the City of South Bend. It has deteriorated to a point where it has become such a serious risk. Something has to be done, i has to be done immediately. The alternatives are the repairs, and it is my understanding that the re- pairs n cessary to secure the building in such a way to eliminate that risk would be in the vicinity of $150,000. Within that first alternative there are a number of options with respect to who is to pay for those neces- sary re airs. The second alternative, of course, is the demolition. Something does have to be done, a decision does ha e to be made with respect to these alternatives immediately. If the Commission were to decide to wait the 90 cays, we cannot wait 90 days to accomplish the repairs that are necessary, those have to be made immed- iately and, of course, a decision would have to be made as to w ere the money is going to come from. Mr. Nim z: Mr. Hill. Mr. Hill: I want to confirm the concern from the stand- point of liability to consider that the downtown area would be the biggest potential for such a liability in that particles of the building were falling down on the street and, as this Commission knows, the Commission is self-insured, meaning that we do have limitations in terms o funds that are available to pay for general liability. And should the building not come down, that should be addressed and confirmed. Kevin's comment that th building should be secured from the standpoint 23 BIDS WERE OPENED FOR DEMOLITION CONTRACT NO. 43 (ODD FELLOWS BUILDING) South Bend Redevelopment Commission Regular Mee ling - December 4, 1981 4. RECEIPT AND OPE14ING'OF BIDS FOR DEMiOLITION CONTRACT NO. 43 (continued) of thoSE initial repairs that would need to be made to make su e that the building does not continue to deterio- rate because the sidewalk area surrounding the building has become a really dangerous area. (Unintelligible) Mr. Nim z: No, Art, we're opening bids here and I don't want to jeopardize the process here. You'll read the bid, I'm sor y, once we've started opening envelopes we... Mr. Butler: Pat, why don't you hold on to them and read the fig res. Mr. Mcfl1 hon: The bid of O'Rourke Construction Company, it's a ood Irish name. We have two figures that we'll be read ng, I believe, for most of the bids. We've asked for a bid first to take the building down using standard demolit on practices, the second was an option or an alternate bid if they wished to use explosives which was anyone who wished to use explosives was told to submit that as an alternate,and the first one has, and I would assume some of the others will also Mr. Rob nson: Where do you see this? Do you have sheets like th t for the rest of the Commission? Mr. McMahon: We do not, but we'll duplicate this immediately. O'Rourke Construction, for the base, bid $174,799. Mr. Donaldson: How much is that, Pat? Mr. McMthon: $174,799, $194,799 should explosives be used. Mr. Nim �apers. z: I don't think you need to look at all the allied Mr. MC11i Richard is no a' LaFree? Unknown hon: No. I'm just. Okey. The bid of LaFree, LaFree. The basic demolition of $164,444. There ternate bid. Am I correct? Is someone here from Right. Mr. McM hon: No alternate bid. LaFree, L- A- F- R -E -E. That's local contractor. 24 South Bend Commission Regular Mee �edevelopment ing - December 4, 1981 4. R'tCEIPTJAND OPENING-OF-BIDS FOR DEMOLITION CONTRACT NO. 43 (continued) We have the bid by Ritschard Brothers, again a local contrac or, in the amount of $101,930. There's no alterna e bid, am I correct? Unknown: Yeh, there's a sheet with the alternate. Mr. McMahon: Okey. In order to do it with demolition, we would add $52,986, with explosives rather. Mr. Robinson: Add or is that... Mr. McMahon: That would be additional, an additional $52,986 would be added to the base bid. Mr. Donaldson: Excuse me, where is this O'Rourke from? Where aye they from? Mrs. Kolata: Cincinnati Mr. Donaldson: Cincinnati? Mr. McMahon: National Wrecking Company, they're out of Chicago, the base bid is $206,000, and I do not believe that th y have bid an alternate. Am I correct? Is there anyone ere form National? There's no in that portion of the bid form that's reserved for comments, there's no mention of an alternate bid. Woodruf and Sons of Michigan City. The base bid for Woodruf is in the amount of $165,760, the alternate bid includi g use of explosives is $158,360. The last bid that we received is from Dore and Associates, Bay Cit , Michigan. Their base bid is in the amount of $194,39C, with explosives there would be a deduction of $6,600 from that figure. Mr. Robinson: Six thousand what? Mr. McM hon: $6,600 from that figure. Unknown Mr. McMe an incrE spread c which we for demc the sprE Some add, some subtract. hon: In some cases the use of explosives causes ase in cost and some a decrease in cost.. The n bids, I would note, is very similar to that s received the first time that this was advertised lition over a year ago. At that time I believe ad on bids was from $102,000 up to something 25 South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 4. RECEIPTIAND OPENING OF BIDS FOR DEMOLITION CONTRACT NO. 43 (continued) around 4220,000. So the spread on bids, we have a number of people from the demolition area here, if they would like to question why there is such a large spread when- ever YOL see demolition bids, it's a science I certainly don't u derstand. Mr. Nim z: Apparently, right now, Ritschards' the low bidder, is that right? Mr. McMahon: Th'e, apparent low bidder would be Ritschard at $101,930, and that is within a few dollars of the bid that wa received a few years ago. Mr. Nim z: What is the pleasure of the Commission. Mr. Robinson: I'll make a motion that we accept Ritschard's bid for demolition. Mr. Don ldson: Supported. Mr. Robinson: May I make a comment, sir, before Mr'. Nim z: Robby, these have not been referred to legal counsel for approval or I don't know whether all the non- collusion affidavits and so on are there or not. I think the usual procedure is that they would be referred to legal counsel for review and the staff will report. It's up to y u, all I do is run this, I don't vote unless there's a tie. So. Mr. Robinson: Could I make just a brief statement. Mr. Nim z: Surely. Mr. Robinson: Okey. The reason I made this motion, I know that even though construction's down and work is terriblE in our community, ,I know that you can't continue to go tc the private industry and continue to ask them to make bi s and quotes and using their personnel and going to great expense, that you can't continually keep going to the well asking for bids and then all of a sudden you supposedly keep throwing out the bids because you've got a better offer. It does create a terrible expense upon the employer and at this day and age, for no more profit than he gets to make because it is so darn competitive, I would say we're asking these people to go above and beyond. This makes the second time that I know of. 26 South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 4. RECEIPTIAND OPENING OF BIDS FOR DEMOLITION CONTRACT NO. 43 (continued) Mr. Nim z: Your motion stands then. Mr. Robinson: Yes sir. Mr. McM hon: I would like to make one note. We will have a speci 1 meeting next week to deal with some other busi- ness anc this could be placed on the agenda. Perhaps a rephrasing of the motion so that legal counsel has an opportu ity to review it would be something along the line that we recommend that action be taken to award to the low bid er, next Tuesday, based on legal review. Mr. Robinson: Fine. Mr. Nim z: Will you withdraw your motion? Mr. Robinson: Yes. Mr. Nimtz: Will you withdraw your second? Mr. Donaldson: Yes. Mr. Nimt : All right, restate your motion please. Mr. Robi son: I'd like to make a motion that we accept the Lowe t bidder upon approval from counsel. Mr. Dona dson: Support. Mr. Nimt : And with the recommendation of the staff. Mr. Robinson: And with the recommendation of the staff. Mr. Nimt z: Is there any further question or discussion? Questions on the passing of the motion? All in favor signify by saying aye. Commissioners: Aye. Mr. Ni.mtt: Contrary, no. That is carried. So ordered. Ms. Aubu�n: When is the special meeting? Mr. Nimt�: We will set that later. Mr. NcMamon: I believe that will be Tuesday. 27 BID OF RITSCHARD BROTHERS, INC., IN THE AMOUNT OF $101,930, WAS APPROVED SUBJECT TO REVIEW AND APPROVAL BY LEGAL COUNSEL South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 4. RECEIPT�AND OPENING OF BIDS FOR DEMOLITION CONTRACT NO-.__43 (continued) Mr. Nimfz: Later on the agenda. Any other communications? Mr. McM4hon: No, we have no other communications. 6. OLD BUSINESS Mr. Nim z: Old business? Mr. McM hon: No old business. 7. NEW BUSINESS Mr. Nimtz: New business? THERE WAS NO OLD BUSINESS TO PRESENT TO THE COMMISSIOP Mr. McM hon: We have a request that is in front of the Commission to approve two South Bend Home Improvement Loans, one is at 222 South Chicago in the amount of $7,350, and one at 1133 Cleveland in the amount of $205. Mr. Nim z: Ms. Baumgartner, let's get on to something else he e, come up here please. Ms. Ba lgartner: Both contractors are the lowest bidder, we do r commend that you award them to. Mr. Nim z: While you Councilmen are here, I want to com- mend this young lady in your presence for the job she is doing a d has done. She is on the ball. She can talk con- structs n with Robby here and I think she is one of the best di ectors we've had. Mr. McG nn: No argument from us. Mr. Nim z: I don't know what her politics are, but I pre- sume they are opposite than mine. Ms. Der beck: Most of them area Mr. Nim z: You weren't at the City Council meeting but, no that was executive, when Bob Taylor said that he was the oth r Republican. Do I hear a motion that these be accepte . South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 7. NEW BUSINESS (continued) Mr. Don ldson: So moved. Ms. Aub rn: Support. Mr. Nim z: Any further question or discussion? All in favor s gnify by saying eye. Commiss oners: Aye. Mr. Nim z: Contrary, no. That is carried. Next. Ms. Aub rn: I have. May I ask a question as long as you are here. There was a new firm that we awarded some bids to and ve were going to look at the fact after it had been awarded some bids. How are they doing? Ms. Bau gartner: Michiana Remodeling. There were two. Turner onstruction, they have just successfully completed the contracts and will now be a regular participating contractor. Michiana Remodeling has three jobs. They're one weel< into the contracts so... We have eliminated two contrac ors from our list, R. A. Stickler is a general con- tractor and Hoosier Home Improvements. They both were let go beca se of non-performance. Ms. Auburn: Thank you, as long as we can hear all of that. Mr. Nim z: Thank you, Kathy. Next item, action by the Commission on bids received for Monroe - Sample Deposition Parcels No. 2 and 3. Mr. McM hon: We have advertised both of these parcels for sale, t ey lie just west of Lincoln Way behind and adjacent to the roperties occupied by Color Tile, and there's a lawn- mower f cility in that same building. The bidder in this case, aE the owner of that property, Mr. Harvey Roland. Mr. Roland is here with us this morning and has submitted bids that arE consistent with the offering price. He has bid $50 for Parcel No. 2, $125 for Parcel No. 3. Mr. Roland has an interest in the property in that he does own the adjacent real estate and has been attempting to acquire ad- jacent Yeal estate in order to allow his business to do some expansion, but also to improve the existing condition which exists cown there with respect to landscaping, parking, and otherservice aspects of his facility so that it may be in better ompliance with City codes with respect to such things s parking, access, and so on and so forth. We have 9 COMMISSION APPROVED TWO (2) SOUTH BEND HOME IM- PROVEMENT PROGRAH /HOME- STEAD PROGRAM PROPOSALS South Bend qedevelopment Commission Regular Mee ling - December 4, 1981 7. NEW BUSINESS (continued) talked vith Mr. Roland about our general intentions in that area so th of Bronson Street to improve the quality and charact r of the area from a light industrial standpoint. Mr. Roland has indicated that he agrees that the program that we have pursued is of benefit to not only potential porpert Uh wners doom in that area, but to existing property owners as himself and we are pleased that. Mr. Nim z: Excuse me. Councilman Szymkowiak, come on in. Walter, won't you sit down sir. Mr. Nim z: We are pleased that our plans down in the Mon- roe -Sam le area have been in dealing with Mr. Roland have come al ng in a manner which allows him to expand his ex- isting peration and to improve the property that he cur- rently iolds and reflects an investment that he has had for some time. Mr. Roland is here and can certainly address this mu h better than I. Mr. Roland, we'd be pleased to have anything that you desire to say. Mr. Roland: I thank the Redevelopment Commission for work- ing with me and giving us the opportunity of acquiring this property. We are very pleased with the way things are going because I have been i.n South Bend now 35 years and my busi- ness has always been in this area and we thought it would be very very well. We bought the old Indiana Lumber Company about 10 years ago and remodeled it to where our present business is because we were moved out of Block Six. We had a very find building in Block Six. We believe in being good property owners and good tax payers and good citizens of the dommunity. Ply business has always been at an industr al level and so we have maintained a very low.pro- file as far as people knowing who we are and what we are doing, ut we are very happy that we did come to South Bend an we have made a living and raised our family here. Mr. Nim z: Thank you, sir. Pleased to have you here and you've eared us criticized this monring. Mr. Wiggins was on the ommission 15 years, I think, and took it for a long time. I think we've bottomed out and we're on the upswing and as 3ou know, we've already sold Parcel 1, this is 2 and 3, and e're in the process of getting bids on Parcel 4, so you will not be alone down there. Things are moving forward sir. Mr. Roland: Very good. Ms. Auburn: I am sorry, but I missed the name of the busines . 30 South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 7. NEW BUSINESS (continued) Mr. McM hon: The operator of the building is Color Tile, the ten lealty nt. The actual entity that submitted the bid is Habert Company, Inc., and fir`. Roland is a principal. Mr. Rob nson: Mr. Roland, might I ask if there is any kind of stru ture on either one of these lots presently. Mr. Rol nd: There are four houses on Lot 2 which we will have to demolish and grade and put in compliance with what- ever th Redevelopment Commission desires. Mr. Robinson: That's the reason I asked. I have been down there t ree or four times and made the complete tour and I knew th re were a lot of buildings that probably weren't worth saving. They were a lot of them condemned. Mr. McM hon: Not unlike the parcel that we conveyed to Beardsl y. We are doing this with the structures on it and it stated that that's the responsibility of the pur- chaser to take them down. Mr. Nim z: All right. What's the pleasure of the Commis- sion? think the proper motion, Mr. Butler, would be that we acce t the bids of - what is the exact bidder? Mr. r1cm hon: Habert, that's H- A- R- B- E -R -T, Realty Co., Inc. Mr. Nimtz: In the amount... Mr. McM�hon: $50 for Parcel No. 2... Mr. Nim z: Thank you, Mr. Butler. Mr. Robinson: So moved. Ms. Aub rn: Support. Mr. Nim z: Any further question or discussion? Yes, sir? Mr. Robinson: The difference in price, is that because of the ifferent size in the lots? Mr. McMOon: That is correct. Mr. NIm z: Any further question or discussion? All in favor signify by saying aye. Commissioners: Aye. 31 COMMISSION AWARDED BIDS FOR DISPOSITION PARCEL NOS. 2 and 3 IN THE MONROE- SAMPLE DEVELOPMENT AREA TO MR. HARVEY ROLAND South Bend Commission Regular Mee �edevelopment ing - December 4, 1981 7. NEW BUSINESS (continued) Mr. Nim z: Contrary, no. That is carried. So ordered. Thank you. Congratulations, sir. Nr. Roland: Thank you, sir, I appreciate it. Mr. Nimtz: Next. 8. PROGRESS REPORTS Mr. McMahon: Under progress reports I would simply PROGRESS REPORTS like to note that some months ago we did ask the Com- mission for permission to pursue some additional clean- up activities over in the Monroe - Sample area. The Commission asked that they be informed when that came to an e d. I would like to note that the clean -up crew worked in the area from October 1 through Novem- ber 25. During that time they cleaned approximately 114 pro erties and, in addition, they addressed the interior problems of about 18 houses that needed some code en orcement, just debris and such that was there. We have, as a result of having gone through that effort End some of our recent demolition effort, re- duced t e need for those additional people to be assignec to the area or employed by us for that specific purpose. From this point forward the re- gular code enforcement crew feels that they are in a positior to address whatever trash or debris problems that accumulate in the area. We no longer are deal- ing wit a problem of the size that we had to expend any additional funds. We have awarded, also I'd like to note, for you, bids for demolition for 44 structures in the Monroe - Sample area on November 2 and November 16, and I would like to note that as of the end of last month, 15 of those were taken down and the process is continuing. hope- fully t e firebug that has been down there doesn't get to 11 of them before we do. Mr. Donaldson: Who got the bids? Mr. McM hon: The bids went to a number of indivi- duals. We did it through the Substandard Office process, they were all offered individually. Mr. Ni . Do you know who got it? 32 South Bend Commission Regular Mee Jedevelopment ing - December 4, 1981 8. PROGRESS REPORTS (continued) Mrs. Kolata: I know who got some of them. Torok and David Eck from Mishawaka got some of them, and I believe that's 1he primary two that have gotten bids. They have, in turn subcontracted out to Bradberry. Mr. McMahon: Mr. Donaldson, I would assume that your office would be notified simply because you have to.keep track o where they are taking those things. If you'd like, I would ask Ann to check with Kathy Barnard. Mr. Donaldson: That's what I aria trying to get to because is they any stipulation in these contracts they have to take this to an approved site? Mr. McMahon: It's a standard substandard demolition con- tract a d that language I know is in that. I would assume that it's been applied to these. I have no reason to be- lieve tat it isn't, but we would-be more than happy to check or it. If the weather holds we hope that they'll all be cone within the next two weeks. Mr. Nim z: Thank you. Ms. Auburn: Are we still working, is.Historic Landmarks still down there? Are we still working on it? I saw some of the renderings that are out on the wall - they're very nice. Mr. Nim z: Mr. Conley is... Ms. Aub rn: I also drove through and recognized, I think, lenda's house has got new siding on it, and the house n xt to you has got new siding on it. Mrs. He nandez: The City money did have a ripple effect. Mr. Butler: Trickle down. Ms. Auburn: It looks nice. Mr. McM hon: Well, you know, it's really something that the neighbo hood is to be commended for. The response has again b en faster and quicker than we thought. There are 17 diff rent buildings in the area north of Bronson Street that ha e had activity initiated on them with respect to exterio repairs, and perhaps there's a few interior re- pairs. I'd have to go down the list. We just received it the oth r day and it's their money, for the most part. 33 South Bend Commission Regular Mee �edevelopment ing - December 4, 1981 8. PP.OGRES1 REPORTS (continued) This is 17 different instances where something has taken place a d it's not Bureau of Housing funds necessarily and ver positive reaction from the neighborhood, an in- vestment in upkeeping of a number of those homes that hasn't Yeally been made over the recent years. Our de- sire to affect to improve the quality of the housing in that neighborhood is starting to swing that way. We are really leased to be able to say that at this point, we're t ere already. Mr. Nim z: I am sorry Mr. McGann left because we are not all bad you know. I think you know we're doing some things that have great credit. 9. NEXT C%MISISON MEETING Mr. McMahon: I have nothing else Mr. Nimtz, other than to request the Commission consider a special meeting for Tuesday. We would hopefully be addressing some Redevelop- ment issues surrounding the Ethanol Plant at that time and some other related matters with this demolition thing, providing that there is no hitch on it. We can sign that award that was made today. Mr. Nim z: I think I'm available. The only time I am tied up is 2:00 to 3:00 on Tuesday. Mr. Robinson: Can you make it some other day? I can't make it on Tuesday. I will be in Indianapolis. Monday is a heck of a lot better than Tuesday. Ms. Auburn: I don't think I can make it anytime on Tuesday, but I've got a bad week next week. Monday morning. Mr. McMahon: How's Wednesday? Mr. Butler: Paula, does it make any difference to you? Mr. Nim z: Pete, what's your situation? Mr. Donaldson: Wednesday would be better than Monday for me. Mr. Nim z: How about Wednesday for you Robby? Mr. Robinson: Well, that's better than Tuesday. Tuesday is an impossibility. 34 South Bend Redevelopment Comriission Regular Meeting — December 4, 1981 9. NEXT COI MISSION MEETING (continued) Mr. Nim z: Well, we could always meet over at Robby's office, couldn't we? Mr. Robinson: Anytime. I wouldn't want you to get some stigma... Mr. Nim z: 9:00 Wednesday. I hope I'm available. I NEXT COMMISSION MEETING think that I am. Mr. Robinson: 9:00 Wednesday. That's the 9th, correct? Ms. Auburn: I am sorry that I are not going to be able to be at that meeting, because that's when you're going to act on tie demolition bids. Mr. McMa on: I believe the action was taken subject to legal approval. Ms. Auburn: I assume that there will be some more people from the public to speak about the Odd Fellows Building. I think after spending 2 -1/2 to 3 years on looking at that, that I an very comfortable with the decision that we've reached. I think we've looked at every alternative that's possible and I'm not uncomfortable with my personal de- cision a it relates to that building. Mr. McMa on: Just a question I have, was the action taken today ju t subject to your approval? Mr. Butl r: Yes. Mr. McMa on: So the action was taken today. The question would no,... Ms. Aubu n: I suspect there will be some more people that wil come back on Wednesday and that we'll have some more public discussion. Ms. Derb ck: I was going to ask that too, but can we say that this is the action if legal counsel... Mr. Nimt : If the bid's in order. Mr. Butl r: If that bid is in order, yes. Ms. Derb ck: If the bid is in order, then what? The motion today... 35 South Bend Commission Regular Mee �edevelopment ing - December 4, 1981 9. NEXT COOMISSION MEETING (continued) I Mr. Butler: Was to award the bid to... Ms. Der eck: And it will be awarded if the papers are in order. Mr. Nim z: It will be ratified and confirmed. Mr. Butler: Yes, it will be ratified. It has been awarded subject simply to the determination that the documents are fully ir order, the documents submitted, the bid documents. Ms. Der eck: That will be studied by you and by the staff? Mr. Butler: Yes. Mr. Nim z: David? Mr. And rson: My next question then would be, when would demolition begin. Mr. Nim z: Under the contract they have so many days with which t ... Mr. McMahon: They have a few days to mobilize. We would ask that they would begin because we again have a, we would ask that they go up immediately and remove some of the things that we feel are going to drop, such as the wrought iron work and a good deal of the terra cotta. They may wish to, it's not unusual for a demolition contractor to go in and get some salvage out of the building before he brings the wrecking ball to it. We'd asked them to ad- dress a number of the liability things that we are con- cerned a.bout immediately. Mr. And rson: We're looking at 27, 28, 26 days no matter how you want to count it before the beginning of a new year when the new law goes into effect regarding the Mayor and Council appointments of Redevelopment, which then ki d of bens the question that if demolition hasn't begun, nd if indeed there'd be a new commission, could we see reversal of this situation? Mr. McM hon: I think you can rest assured that the demo- lition vill have begun. Mr. Butler: David, unless, and my understanding is that the bidders were made fully aware that if the decision was made to demolish, the bid awarded, that they would have to proceed quickly. I don't know if you were here 36 South Bend Commission Regular Mee �edevelopment ing - December 4, 1981 9. NEXT COOMISSION MEETING (continued) when I said that as a legal matter, if the decision is to demolis the building, that has to be done, it has to be done now. It can't wait a month. Mr. Nim z: Mr. Robinson. Mr. Robinson: I have one question. Who will make the de- cision as to whether they do it with explosives or whether they knock it down with a headache ball? Mr. McMahon: At a $102,000 low bid, that's the bid that we're acting on, which does not have explosives. They would have to come back to us. Mr. Butler: Are you willing to pay a premium for that? Mr. Robinson: Question - could we maybe sell tickets for $10 a throw, invite everybody, we might make that 50 grand for people who want to see a building come down with ex- plosives. Mr. Nim z: I was in Indianapolis when the Lincoln Hotel went down. Councilman Voorde, I didn't mean to shut you off, but I learned that once you began opening bids you'd better stay on that trolley so on. We would be pleased to hear from you again, if you wish. Mr. Voor speak, b address you soul intentio Building quoted. really i measure be very walkways pedestri Mr. Bu tl itself, course, are issu building doubled would, o e: The horse is already out of the barn, so to t I would have questioned the $150,000 needed to he liability. I think there are a number of ways address liability and protect the City if your is to reconsider the saving of the Odd Fellows The $150,000 figure was the very top figure I have heard as low as $60,000, but if you are terested in saving the building as a temporary or much, much less money, even though it wouldn't ightly, you could put one of those construction around there, if you were just concerned about ns getting hit on the head. !r: It is my understanding that, that in and of could not be sufficient and also there are, of :he issues beyond the liability situation. There ?s concerning work that has to be done to the now in order that the cost of that work not be is we proceed through the winter. A 90 -day period course, require that kind of action. 37 South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 9. NEXT COMMISSION MEETING (continued) Mr. Voo de: All along I have maintained that I can't pretend to pass myself off as an expert and, obviously, you haVE done two to three years work on this and we have just come in at the eleventh hour at the bidding of someone who said, hey, wait a minute, I think it can be done So, I am not going to pretend to say that they are abs lutely right and you're absolutely wrong, but there did seem to be a couple of questions, namely , whether or not there was a compelling reason to bring it down now, you may think that from a liability standpoint there is. The other question was, that no one answered, was also TRANSPO going to lose there money if the 90 -day extensi n was granted. Mr. f1cM hon: I think that the comment that's been made by TRAM PO as far as they are extremely concerned about their grant and feel that they have to move forward as fast as possible for fear of losing their money, because they ha e no control over what happens in Washington, what is rescinded and what is grandfathered through. They arE extremely concerned about not moving ahead, and if the dd Fellows area could not be included in the area considered by TRANSPO, then it would have to be submitted with so e other area. One of the considerations that we offered for the Commission to consider was that we felt that that area was the best area for TRANSPO to be located in light of the future development of Century Mall and to make thE balance of the parcel most attractive to invest- ment. 1he question or comment made earlier that, I be- lieve My. Brademas said, certainly there's no question that 20C workers would have an impact on rehab, we cer- tainly agree with that. That's the whole reason that we're tying to market the block and we feel that from an office and retail standpoint that Rouse was correct in their original recommendation and they have restated that recently to us that the bus terminal should be along Washington Street. The Washington Street location did pose some problems to TRANSPO without exposure to Main Street, and if the Odd Fellows Building was to come down, that resolved that problem. If the Odd Fellows Building stayed Lp, we would have had to work around it in some other manner. Your article on renovation of buildings in Chicago is great and it's very accurate, but I would like to note one paragraph. It says here that that space goes for a 82 -100 dollars a square foot, and I can assure you that is not South Bend's market and those buildings were not being saved in Chicago either until it got Lp into that area for a while. 38 South Bend Commission Regular mee �edevelopment ing - December 4, 1981 9. NEXT COPJMISSION MEETING (continued) Mr. Butler: John, I think also you mentioned the Kresge Buildinc and the Oliver Building. Now both of those were demolis ed under private ownership, the private sector had an opportunity in those two cases. Mr. McMahon: I would like to note that the condition that the Odd Fellows Building is in did not all happen in two years. The building continued to deteriorate and the pri- vate ownership found that they were not in the position to affect he repair. Now that's not true on every building in the entury Mall Block. Certainly the Sherland Building is an a ample of just exactly the opposite. The Commission has nev r had an intention, I believe, of just acquiring . everything down there for the sake of demolishing it. What we have acquired and demolished are those buildings that have deteriorated after they have not been addressed through that pr vate enterprise system. There are two classic ex- amples of one going one way and one going the other way. Hr. But er: The old American Bank Building, American PJationa Bank Building, is another example similar to the Sherlan . It's an island out there, it has been maintained by its' owners. i1r. Voo de: I have tried to temper my comments. I have tried not to get too emotional because admittedly I can't presuppose or be so presumptious as to think that I can see things more clearly than you who have put all the work in on it. But, nonetheless, right now I feel disappointed. Flr. Butler: John, one thing that has not been said in respons to Tom's criticism of the staff, good faith and compete ice. This staff, I think the amount of time spent, is ampl evidence of the good faith effort to save that buildin With respect to competence, the staff does not need an kudos from me or really anybody else, but that's a broke record. Tom says that... Mr. Nim z: Tom is a good debater. You were there the other n'ght when he said the place for the bus company is the old South Shore Line. Now he's changed his tune. Mr. Voo de: If that were the case, my mother would never be able to take public transportation because she couldn't stand t e three block walk to shop at Robertson's. Mr. Nim z: I don't know if I mentioned the other night or not, but in the public hearing we had concerning some more blight iere, I am sorry to say Janet Allen said the place is the ld Union Depot for the bus. You know, this is how some pe ple think. Why you would kill off the merchants. 3 e. South Bend Commission Regular Mee �edevelopment ing - December 4, 1981 9. NEXT COOMISSION MEETING (continued) �I Mr. Wig ins: All these people that are saying this, Jay, have no intention of ever taking a bus. In defense of the Commission, some years ago I asked Ernie how smart you haVE to be to be as successful as he was. He said, "well, 3ou have to be smart enough to hire experts and listen to them, and then make your decision." Now, in re- gard to what Tom was saying about this Commission and this staff -- an, we've hired experts, we've hired him as an expert, and the decision hasn't been made off the top of their h ad or out of ignorance, it's been made on the basis of experts. In fact, the whole requirements of the process demand that you get expert opinions before you can dot an "i" or cross a "t ", or blow your nose. Mr. Nim z: Well, I didn't want to get into a debate with T. Brooks. We're good friends. As I said the other night, Leatha and I eat over there quite a bit. He comes over and sits at the table and talks to us. Mr. McM hon: We just gave Mr. Brademas $150,000 on another City pr ject. P1r. Nim z: Yes, but you know, that piece in the paper he called s incompetent, inexperienced. You know, I could have to en offense to that, but I... Ms. Aubdrn: I did. Mr. Nim z: I have been in politics 50 years and I have been in the Prmy 29 -1/2 years, and it takes quite a bit to get under m skin, and you can't do it very well. But my reply, you kno , should have been, "T. Brooks, the staff, the former members of the Commission, Don and Mr. Helmen, Rich Hill, PL t together the Marriott -First Bank thing. I don't know of any more complicated piece of financial arrange- ment then that thing, stuff I have been in, in 40 years of law practice. The engineering, the legalistics, the title work, t e financing, vaas the most complicated piece of bus - ness, a d if we were incompetent, then that is no criteria, you ,no . Mr. Wig ins: One further thing I'd like to say as long as we're all letting our hair down. Thirty years ago, Eldridge, who was the principal in Wyman's, offered to rebuild that buildin , make a substantial investment, but she conditioned it upon the City acquiring some vacant land and creating some pu lic parking lots. At the time that came before the City Council, I think Dan Clark and I were the two people who werE advocating the City following this procedure doing that. We lost it nine to nothing. This was the point in 40 South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 9. NEXT COOMISSION MEETING (continued) which the cork was pulled and the downtown business com- munity started down the drain, right there, right then. However the people then couldn't see it, the Councilmen couldn't see it, and.I doubt if the majority of the pub- lic cou d see it. But this is where it was, the com- munity ad not recognized the automobile yet, this was 30 years a o. We still aren't sure about it, but you have to create z climate that will allow the things to happen that. you wani to happen. This is what this whole process is about. Mr. Butler: You have visited city after city, you also John, WE are much further ahead in this city. The leader- ship here has been much more creative, much more far- sighted than in many, many cities around the country. Mr. Robinson: One other comment, and I think just like anybody else when they talk, they want to cutt off the debate right afterwards. Let me say one thing, we've had so a m many surveys of this downtown area that I don't e en want to find out how much of our taxpayer dollars we've spent on surveys, and we were suppose to be talk ng to all the experts in the country every time we had ne. I know its been way up there, almost as much as what the cost of demolition is, I'm sure. Mr. NIm z: John Pence, I see you here, did you want to be reco nized this morning? Mr. Pen e: No, I just came as a citizen; I appreciated Joe Ettl's remarks because I used to office over there, and the privy word was very well put. I think the Com- mission should be complimented to bringing this thing to a head and getting this show on the road. Mr. Nimtz: You've made my day. Mr. Don ldson: I would like to say, and especially to John, ir two years Mr. Brademas didn't get anything to- gether, so how is he going to do it in 90 days. He had two years to do this, and I mean we sat on it. Mr. MC M hon: And quite frankly, John, even with the show that Jo n was able to put on the last week and a half here. Mr. Butl er: Tom, you mean, I'm sorry, the question was. 41 South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Mee ing - December 4, 1981 9. NEXT COMMISSION MEETING (continued) Mr. McM hon: When the staff individually talked with some of Commission members, if there's something here that we haven't seen from Tom before or that we haven't before then, we should take time, look at it and give it time to go. But if it's just a repeat of the things we've gone through and the same stone walls that we've run into before, it sounds very good to say I think I can do it, but over two years we've had a number of people who couldn't do it that came to us with much stronger things that T. Brooks did, and there has been nothing changed in that regard. If the information was the same, and I b lieve it was, our recommendation was that the action remain that we take the building down, because there had beer no change in any information that had been sub- mitted. Mr. Don ldson: And I'd like to add this too. Two years ago, if it was left up to me, it would have gone down. I wanted to see it down then, but we were requested by the Mayor tc try to save it. That's the reason I went along with it then, but after two years, if he hasn't put a package together, I can't see him putting one togehter in threE months. Mr. Voo de: I publicly stated before that my bias was that the building ought to come down, and it's been that way for the last. three years when Pete wanted to bring it down. I thought that's probably the way to go. At that time I was working part time with Lawson - Fisher and, just informally over coffee, asked those guys, who .I respect as engineers, what do you think of the rehab of the Odd Fellows, and their o inion was, just off the top of their heads, was that they di n't think it could be done feasibly. The more people I talkec to, the more people said it ought to come down. Mr. Butler: And people who are experts, who do have ex- pertise who do know and have looked at it. Mr. Vooi don't wi been wr( hasn't t Thirty ) Odd Fel'. office k and as deterior i is not ever th' de: That's my predisposition. And, like I say, I nt to come here at the eleventh hour and say, "you've ng for the last three years," but any building that een attended to for fifty years is going to be bad. ears ago, you know, my father had an office in the ows Building, and it looked like all the other uildings in town. I am sure that it was as good erviceable and everything else - -it's just been let ate for thirty years. Plans for development downtown, been thirty years ago, too, don't way nobody was nking about doing anything downtown. Again, when I 42 South Bend edevelopment Commission Regular Meeting - December 4, 1981 9. NEXT COOMISSION [1EETING (continued) I was ten years old, I can remember seeing plans on the dining room table for a new downtown South Bend, with parking garages and the whole bit, but those kind of things are worth about as much as Lloyd Allen's plan, and this plan out here that you said we ought to torch, and all those other things. They are good for ideas, it's ju t... I'm one minute late for an appointment with Joe Ker an. Mr. Nim z: Thank you, Councilman. Ms. Der beck: May I change the subject briefly? Mr. Nim z: We recognize the press. Mr. But er: Jean Derbeck wants to change the subject from th Odd Fellows Building, I thought this was her red let er day. Ms. Der beck: I just want to ask you all, informally, if you saw last Sunday's Chicago Tribune. It had a very complimentary remark about the architecture of the First Bank Center. The Tribune's famous pulitzer prize winner architecture critic... It was really about Chicago Archi- tects, and it mentioned Helmut Jahn as the undisputed crown p ince of Chicago architects. And it said, I don't know, h s very fine, spectacular whatever complimentary example of his atrium - office building is the First Bank Center n South Bend, Indiana. Mr. But er: The Marriott is using that picture of that buildin in its National ads, the Wall Street Journal, at leas the mid -west edition. Mr. Nimtz: Run a copy, will you please. Ms. Der6eck: Of course, it's just a small part. Ms. Aubdrn: We'll take it. Mr. Nim z: Is there anything further to come before the Commission? Yes, Mrs. Hernandez, are you speaking as a member of the Planned Commission? I don't know, what is that official body you are on now? 43 South Bend Commission Regular Mee �edevelopment ing - December 4, 1981 9. NEXT COMMISSION MEETING (continued) Mrs. H rnandez: No. I know that you have no control over the press, but I just wanted to mention that I was a little upset about the tone of the article in the paper the of er night. To me it did not emphasize enough that these Luildings were going to be demolished anyway, and it sou ded like you were taking them down because they were being torched. It seemed that if anything, that you were speeding up the demolition process because of the torching. Ms. De beck: You shouldn't complain to the Commission, make your remarks to the Editor of the Tribune. Mr. Ni tz: Thank you. 10. ADJOURNMENT ADJOURNMENT Mr. Ni tz: Anything further? Do I hear a motion that we be adjourned? Mr. Robinson: Moved. Mr. Donaldson: Second. Mr. Nintz: All in favor signify by saying aye. Contrary, no. It carried. We are adjourned. The meeting was adjourned at 11:35 a.m. resi -dent """' trick M. r1crianon, executive uirector 44