HomeMy WebLinkAboutRM 02-03-78SOUTH BEND REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION
County -City Building, Room 1200
227 West Jefferson Boulevard
South Bend, Indiana 46601
REGULAR MEETING
February 3, 1978
10:00 A.
Presidin Officer: F. Jay Nimtz, President
1. ROLL( CALL
issioners: Mr. F. Jay Nimtz, President
Mr. Donald A. Wiggins, Vice President
Mr. A. Peter Donaldson, Secretary
Mr. Lloyd E. Robinson, Sr., Member
Media:
LPA (Staff :
Community Development Staff:
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Ms. Jeanne Derbeck, So, Bend Tribune Reporter
Mr. Dave Anderson, WNDU -TV Reporter
Mr. Les Howard, WNDU -TV Photographer
Mr. C. Wayne Brownell
Ms. Gertrude E. Barth
Mr. Carl Ellison
On otion by Mr. Wiggins, seconded by Mr. Robinson and carried, the Minutes
of �he Regular Meeting of January 20, 1978, were approved as mailed.
3. APPROVAL OF CLAIMS
On motion by Mr. Wiggins, seconded by Mr. Donaldson, and carried, claims
in the amount of $3,899.45 were allowed and ordered to be paid.
REDEVELOPMENT REVOLVING FUND
Payroll: 1 -14 -78 to 1 -27 -78
Kevin J. Butler
Business Systems, Inc.
Gates Chevrolet Corporation
I.B.M. Corporation
Post aster
Superintendent of Documents
Xerox Corporation
312
Dorojthy Z. Deane, Petty Cash
Total
Total
GRAND TOTAL
$ 3,063.94
200.00
18.76
94.73
465.60
18.42
14.00
13.00
$ 3,888.45
$ 11.00
$ 11.00
$ 3,899.45
4. COMMUNICATIONS
Mr. Brownell stated that we had no communications listed on the agenda
,but he has a communication from Bill Slabaugh attaching copies of the
pages of carbon copies of the abstract for the Odd Fellows Building,
including the party wall agreement.
Mr. bJiggins inquired as to the date of the party wall agreement (which
is a part of the original abstract).
Mr. Brownell: Its dated 1871, February 15th, and we find it was recorded
in 1871 but there is an additional note on the bottom of the document
indicating that the cost of the party wall was not entered thereon
until April 25, 1885, fourteen years later.
Cop, of this abstract will be placed on file.
5. OLDIBUSINESS
There was no old business to come before the Commission.
6. NEW IBUSINESS
(a)
Commission approval requested for Section 312 Loan Application for
Harry Thompson, 1929 Swygart Street, South Bend, Indiana, in the
amount of 2,750.00, application # 18 SOU -2 20 1- 76/77/78.
Mr. Brownell gave the above details for this 312 Loan to the
Commission. Approval was moved by Mr. Wiggins, seconded by Mr.
Donaldson and the following discussion took place.
Mr. Robinson: Are we the only ones who approve this kind of trans-
action?
Mr. Brownell: We are the only Commission outside of the HUD office
in Indianapolis who are empowered to take this action.
Mr. Donaldson: What do the code numbers mean - on the application?
Mr. Brownell: 1- 76/77/78 is the period of time, the SOU pertains to
a particular program.
Mr. Robinson: Is there any other entity, government agency or whatever
that has to approve this loan?
Mr. Brownell: It goes to HUD of course, actually what happens, James
Harcus is the Director of the Bureau of Housing as you know and he
signs this letter to me, I bring it to your attention, you approve
it and then I sign it - there is also a place for me to sign on
the application form.
Mr. Wiggins: The Bureau of Housing develops about six pages of questions
and answers which incorporates the request for the loan, the ability
to repay it and whether or not the applicant is within the guidelines
of eligibility - and that sort of thing, and there is a heck of a
lot of work done before the application comes to us.
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6. NEWIBUSINESS, Continued-
Mr.lDonaldson: Is sending it to HUD more or less a formality?
Mr. Brownell: Yes, I think actually you would find the money is already here
in ur account and we turn the money over to them.
Mr. Wiggins: Our approval is simply to give us a check on the number
and amount of these loans and to prevent an oversight by the Bureau
of ousing.
Mr. Brownell: Otherwise, they would have to go to HUD in Indianapolis
but since they are so far away, HUD has given us (this Commission) authori-
zation to give approval and we are the only one I know of that has this
authority.
Mr. Wiggins: Along the lines that Robbie was developing - do you (Mr.
Bro nell) or our Fiscal Officer check these things over before they are
presented to us?
Mr.lBrownell: No.
Mr. Wiggins: - because you are our agent and we expect you to do the home-
work.
Mr. Brownell: Actually Mr. Harcus and his people are supposed to do all
that checking.
Mr, iggins: But the fact that we have it for approval means that we do
some checking on them to make sure they did it right. If it comes back
"goo ed up then we share the responsibility for that.
Mr. rownell: We don't do as good a job on that as we probably should. We
really rely on Jim Harcus and the Housing Bureau people to do the job
right. If we find an error we of course bring it to their attention. I'll
check this one over before I sign it and if I find something wrong, then
I to e it back to the Bureau of Housing people.
Mr. iggins: What I really want to know is whether someone on our staff
chec s these...
Mr. rownell: I do it after the meeting and before I sign it. The reason
is tat we don't ordinarily get the back -up papers ahead of time. We
put this item on the agenda earlier but didn't get the supporting papers
until this morning.
Mr. obinson: If you do find an error after we have approved it, what
then.
Mr. rownell: I don't sign it until the item in question has been corrected.
Mr. iggins: Its always better to understand the way these things operate
and )revent our winding up with "egg on our faces ".
The hair asked for a vote on the motion which carried unanimously.
Downtown Idea Exchange Article - Mr. Brownell indicated that there is an
item that might be of interest in this publication and he read the article
19.1
6. NEW BUSINESS, Continued-
co cerning downtown Lancaster, Texas. They are finding that where
de elopers are able to get thru all the problems, they are coming out with
su cesses.
Mr. Brownell then said that he has asked Carl Ellison to the meeting
this morning to tell you about the meetings in Indianapolis and Chicago,
the one in Chicago I believe was attended by the Mayor and Chris Murphy.
I thought that Carl could give us a rundown on those.
Also, Kevin Butler is supposed to bring up the lease with the Park De-
pa tment but we don't have that yet so we can't present it this morning.
Chair asked if there were any questions.
Ms. Derbeck asked if she had missed anything (she was late due to an
early deadline at the paper).
Dave Anderson: What is the importance of the Odd Fellows abstract thing?
Mr. Nimtz: We have been told for a long time that this was a party wall
and we have asked the lawyers to research the matter and find out
what the status is. It develops that it is a party wall and it appears
that there was an agreement between the two owners, Almond Bugbee and
Christopher Kunstman, in 1871 to build this wall. Then fourteen years
lat r, in 1885 there was an appraisal and notation added to the abstract
of hat the cost and expense of the wall was - $544.40.
Mr.lAnderson: What does it do for them to get that agreement?
Mr. Wiggins: The whole idea here is that years ago it was common practice
to uild a building adjacent to another by using the wall of the first
building for the fourth wall of your building - it was a wall common to
boti buildings but the problem arises when you tear down one of the
buildings. If you tear the whole building down, you would rip a hole
in the next one - there is a shared responsibility for the party wall.
The people at the Odd Fellows Building were giving us fits because when
we tore down the adjacent building, we left the wall remaining - or a
part of the (party) wall. Now it turns out that there was an additional
wall built since there have been two or three other buildings on this
sit2 over the period of time since the original was built..there were
separate walls above a certain level but a common wall below. We have
now removed the remains of the separate wall above and what is left is
the common wall. This is what I was saying in the first place, I was
not sure that we could tear out that wall without leaving(the tenants)
a g'gantic view.
Ms.
Mr.
Mr.
and
wal
Derbeck: Is it true then that it is a party wall?
Wiggins: That's right.
Brownell: It appears in one place that the cost of the wall was $544.40
in another place it says "$544.40 being one -half the value of the
I "...
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6. NEW BUSINESS, Continued-
Mr. Wiggins: Well, the original cost of the wall is immaterial in this
matter—the only thing that really has any bearing is that both the
original parties shared in the cost of the wall and the wall was common
to the two.
Ms Derbeck: So this is the fourth wall of the building that was torn
do n?
Mr. Wiggins: Not necessarily, the Odd F
before this building was built they had
this was part of the original deal that
redevelopers wanted their territory but
in the cost of it..they apparently were
money to build it.
sllows had that site for years
a Lodge building on that site.
got them involved in it - the
they wanted them to help share
having trouble raising the
Ms . Derbeck: Then it was another building than the one the Odd Fellows
ha owned—and it was a party wall to their old building?
Mr.l Wiggins: Yes, but it was continued with the Odd Fellows Building -
the just built on up.
Mr. Anderson: What this really means then is that half of that piece of
wall belongs to the Odd Fellows and half the Redevelopment, is that right?
Mr.
Mr.
Ms.
Wiggins: Basically, I suppose that is right.
Brownell: It comes down to the fact that there is joint responsibility.
Derbeck: You did remove some bricks from the wall...
Mr. Wiggins: Because there was some additional building after the original
building, that was built up above and that was not common, it was up
against their wall..and we took that out.
Mr. Anderson: Isn't this like if you build a fence across your back yard
and your neighbor attaches a fence to it, this becomes a common fence
acr ss both properties - is that a similar analogy?
Chair: No, that is not quite the same thing—as Don says, this was common
pra tice downtown in these older buildings, in order to save money the
joi t property owners built one wall and both used it. The buildings
at ushing and Lincolnway West - Indiana Heating, Blume's Pharmacy,
there are party walls in all those buildings. It was common practice
dow town and it causes headaches now when you try to tear down a building -
whe her it is us or someone else- you only own half the wall so what
can you do?
Mr. Wiggins: These are not allowable anymore because of fire problems -
you must have a firewall inbetween buildings now.
It bras pointed out that the old South Shore Station was built up against
the NIPSCO building.
Mr.
Ellison arrived and was recognized by the Chair to report on the
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6. NEW BUSINESS, Continued-
UDAG application.
Be ore Mr. Ellison gave his report, Mr. Nimtz commended him for the fine
jo he did in speaking to the Kiwanis Club on Thursday - explaining
th situation. Proceed Mr. Ellison.
Mr. Ellison: The (UDAG) application was submitted on the 31st (January)
that being the greatest ordeal..as you may know the project sort of
fell together on the 10th of last month and the regulations for the
UDAG program finally became final at that time so every city, including
us, had to move full steam ahead in order to get an application sub-
mitted. Unfortunately we had the snow and some other localities did
not, and this caused us to lose three days in the process, which is why
we had a frantic finish, but we did make it with submission by virtue
of delivery by airplane on Tuesday (January 31), to Indianapolis.
Yesterday the Mayor and Chris Murphy went to Chicago at the invitation
of HUD; Dave Dresser, who you might say is the person in Washington who
handles the UDAG program, along with some of his staff members, convened
the meeting with all interested Indiana cities submitting their develop-
ment action grants at that time.
The
and
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In any c
Grant is
ground.
Mr. Wigg
involved
Mr. Elli
have the
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industri
Mayor and Chris Murphy had one hour in which to brief Mr. Dresser
staff on our Project. I'm not sure what his reaction was - of
,se if he listened to the cities all day, I'm not sure you would
much reaction on the spot to the various propositions. Hereafter,
)t of things will occur but basically, three things can happen in
next sixty days (one of three things)-
1. HUD could decide to approve the Grant.
2. HUD could decide to keep the Grant pending, that is they could
determine that they are interested in our project but they
don't wish to fund it during the first quarter of the program.
3. HUD could reject the application.
ise, we will know something within the next sixty days. Assuming the
approved, things would probably start by July, that is digging up
ins: To your knowledge, how many other Indiana cities and towns are
in this?
;on: Only two others in our category, Gary and Evansville. I don't
details but I understand Gary wants about $15,000,000 for A Civic
)wntown, a revitalization kind of project and Evansville is after
;rial Park..they apparently have an employer who wishes to triple
so they want to clear some land and establish something like an
it park.
Mr. Robinson: What is the size of their application?
Mr. Ellison: Somewhere in the $700,000 range.
l
6. NEW BUSINESS, Continued-
Mr.1 Wiggins: How much money is available on a nationwide basis?
Mr. Ellison: There is $400,000,000 available nationwide but only $300,000,000
is available to cities in our category, that is cities which meet the
di tressed criteria and have a population of over 50,000.
Mr. Robinson: It is within the realm of possibility that all three cities
co ld be funded then?
Carl Ellison: It certainly is. This is supposed to be a competitive
process and I think our package had good private sector commitments and
certainly these are reputable well -known firms who are capable of doing
these projects—this makes our case very strong I think. In addition,
HUE will look at the capacity of the locality to undertake and complete
a Froject..because they want to be relatively sure you can get it done
in three or four years. I think this city's record, and this Commission
has a lot to do with this..the fact that we used (as examples) projects
which have been conducted by this Commission as part of our evidence
of capability..that our record speaks for itself so if you look at all
thE various factors in the application, we believe we are competitive.
Mr. Wiggins: So what you are saying is, if you were in Mr. Dresser's
position, you would approve it?
Mr. Ellison: I probably would be a little biased.
Mr. Nimtz: As Carl has said, and this is not just our administration, (a
great deal of (the credit) Don goes to you and your predecessors and
colleagues) the Commission has a good reputation, they have done their
jo s; there have been no hangups on anything, our audits have been good,
ou reviews have been good and as far as our record is concerned regionally,
an nationally, it is good, isn't that right Carl?
Mr.l Ellison: That is correct.
Mr. Wiggins: I think we have probably instituted and completed more
projects than any other city in Indiana.
Mr.
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Mr.
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Ellison: That is probably true. Not only that, but we also indicated
the application..the City itself has taken advantage of virtually
kind of HUD assistance that was made available, since 1961 and we
ted the various activities to show our ability to handle not only very
ge complicated activities like urban renewal but also the ability to
dle the smaller things..like the 701 Planning Grant..to indicate
ersity in respect to capability.
Nimtz: As I told the Kiwanis Club group yesterday, while everyone
was wrestling with the snow and trying to survive, Carl and his
f and the people from First Bank were coming down here through the
her and getting this application ready. We thought there might be
xtension of the deadline but there was no extension and though it
t be an awful thing to say, I hoped some people didn't make it be-
e of the snow.
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6. NEW BUSINESS, Continued-
Ms � Derbeck: Did I understand you to say that Gary and Evansville also
ma a the deadline? And there are only the three Indiana cities?
Mr.1 Ellison: Yes, that is correct.
Mr. Anderson: A couple of questions - the First Bank Project in the
"hole" is contingent upon acceptance of this Grant, now if HUD keeps
it pending and it is not approved for the first quarter which, as you
indicated, is one of their options—is that going to affect the future
of the Project? Say First Bank wants to get this thing up and going by
summer, is it possible they might not wait and would drop out?
Mr. Ellison: That question has not really been explored, based on what
has happened thus far - based on the profile which the bank has taken
so far as their personal involvement is concerned, I think if there is
a chance for the Project, it will hang together.
Mr. Anderson: So..they would be willing to wait - second question -
Mr. Ellison: Understand, we think that—our assumption is that it is a
good package and we deserve the Grant, now obviously we have to get the
approval.
Mr. Anderson: I talked to the Mayor about it earlier this week and he said
the Application met two of the criteria: one, it got private investment
into the downtown and two, it created jobs for the low income sector.
Looking at these two criteria, which I guess is the basis of the UDAG
Grant, do you have any feeling that it will go through—with your experience
in other things, do you have any kind of idea of a percentage you could
gi a us..50 -50, 75 -25, 90 -10 ? ??
Carl Ellison: Anybody who gives percentages is guessing—there are a couple
of things you have to keep in mind, one is that this is a brand new grant
from HUD's perspective and although there are certain guidelines to follow
in the regulations, there is much more than that involved in the process
and we don't know who at HUD will be involved in the decision nor what
factors they will have in mind to look at. Obviously, anything that
provides a significant contribution from the private sector and shows
benefits to low income people in regard to employment, will benefit the
locality in the long run. All the applicants apparently will do these
things and assuming everybody has the basics, what values do you use to
award the grant to a given locality..since it is a brand new program,
none of these things has been tested so no one can really predict what
ou chances are.
Mr Anderson: The Mayor was very optimistic about the thing—is that a
"g ain of salt" kind of optimism, or is it optimism based on.....
Mr. Ellison: Its optimism based on the fact that this is an excellent
pa kage but I don't think anyone wants to kid the.public, we frankly
do not know absolutely that we will get the grant, we do think we have
a Pod chance.
6. NE14 BUSINESS, Continued-
Ms. Derbeck: Do you think we should have one of those three answers
in sixty days?
Mr.l Ellison: That is correct.
J.lDerbeck: Do you think it will be as long as sixty days?
Mr. Ellison: We could know sooner but the sixty days is the maximum time
pe iod in`which an applicant can be advised whether or not they will
ge the grant.
J.lDerbeck: That would be about April 1st.
Mr. Brownell: May I ask a question for my paper..HUD has the problem
of distributing this $300,000,000 over the entire country and I suspect
they will have some - perhaps not published guidelines - but at least
mental guidelines as to how large a grant they will give to any city,
in order to spread the money around to the various states and communi-
ti s. I wonder if that would work against the Gary application be-
cause of its dollar amount- $15,000,000?
Carl Ellison: It could, but as we understand it, initially there were to
be 61 cities competing in the first round, we do not have the final
count yet but we understand the figure is more like "82" nationwide.
NOw out of these 82 cities, we do not at this time know what the
range - or average request was so I would guess Wayne that there will
be several things HUD will take into account - internally.
Mr.lWiggins: Geographical distribution being one!
Mr. Ellison: Geographical distribution being one - but that probably will
not be as significant as the mix of projects, they are going to want to
do some downtown type projects, some housing, some industrial -and de-
pending on what the competition is like for each type of activity -that
might have a bearing since HUD is going to be making these grants every
quarter for the rest of the year and its a question of how much they
are willing to allocate for the first round. If there is $300,000,000
available, my guess is that they will not go higher than $100,000,000
nationwide this first round - they will want to save something for
lat r projects.
Mr.
Ms.
won
Mr.
Ms.
Mr.
of
Nimtz: You have to admit, Gary is in bad shape, very bad shape.
Derbeck: We're asking for $8,000,000, right? What if HUD says "we
't give you $8,000,000 but we will give you $6,000,000, what then?
Ellison: Sometimes you can get into a negotiation process..
Derbeck: Could the project still go?
Ellison: Well, anything is possible- we have received a great deal
community support for this project and everybody involved wants to
6. NE BUSINESS, Continued -
do everything they can to benefit the community..
Mr. Anderson: The grant is not all or nothing?
Mr. Ellison: Well, when you come to them initially, that is the way you
put it frankly, but that's the usual thing you do anytime you negotiate
a grant..if some alternative becomes the only way possible to proceed
with the project, I think all parties involved would agree if that is
feasible.
Ms. Derbeck: Well, as you have said, Gary is in such bad shape and
needs the money but on the other hand, maybe there is such a thing as
a city being in such bad shape, you don't have faith they can do the
project.
Mr. Wiggins: I am sure that is one of the criteria for making the de-
cision, because HUD wants a record of success, they would be foolish
if they didn't.
Mr. Nimtz: And Carl is saying this one will fly..
Mr. Wiggins: This one has an excellent chance of succeeding and that is
the best thing we have going for us.
Mr. Ellison: Also, we are ready to go.
Mr. Nimtz: We have a good reputation also, a good background of success,
with no fiscal difficulty, no hangups of any sort on any inspection,
report or audit that we have had. Carl, officially, and for the record,
on behalf of the Commission, we want to thank you and commend you for
the work you did in getting this thing done.
Ms. Derbeck: What about the other problems we have with the historic
buildings?
Mr. Ellison: Well, in addition to the three days we were snowed in and
couldn't work on the application, our meeting with the Historic Preser-
vation Officer was also snowed out. We talked to him yesterday (2 -2 -78)
and the meeting is now re- scheduled down there for Thursday. We will
talk to him about both projects at the same time. In addition, the Keeper
of the Register and the Mayor held a meeting in Washington so we are
accumulating information on this whole matter and believe it will not
be a problem in the long run. We hope to have environmental clearance
by April.
Mr. Wiggins: Good job!
7. NEXT MEETING
The next Commission Meeting will be held on Friday, February 17, 1978
at 10:00 A.M.
8. ADJOURNMENT
Meeting was adjourned at 11 :10 A.M.
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t --TW—wnel I , Executive Dire(j
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