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Home My WebLink AboutRM 09-16-77SOUTH BEND REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION County -City Building Room 1200 227 West Jefferson Boulevard South Bend, Indiana 46601 COMMISSIONER'S REGULAR MEETING Friday, September 16, 1977 10:00 A.M. 1. ROLL CALL CommijIsioners Present LegallCounsel Mr. F. Jay Nimtz, President Mr. Donald A. Wiggins, Vice President Mr. A. Peter Donaldson, Secretary Mr. Lloyd Robinson, Sr., Member Mr. Kevin J. Butler News Media Mr. Jim Holloway, WNDU Mr. Lou Tutino, WNDU Mr. Jonethan White, South Bend Tribune Ms. Andrea Wood, WSBT Mr. Frank Vellner, WSBT Guests Mrs. Janet S. Allen Mrs. Edith Hawley Miss Barbara Schankerman Mrs. Patricia Hughes Mr. Douglas S. Kline Mr. Chester J. Chandler Miss Rita F. Donnelly Mr. Christopher Overgaard Mr. Joseph D. Anderson Commurity Development Staff Mr. Keith P. Crighton Mr. Kenneth Schaller Mr. John E. Davis Mr. Richard E. Pfeifer Mr. James Johnson LPA Staff Mr. C. Wayne Brownell Mr. Marc A. Brammer Mr. Jim Masters Miss Christine L. Trippel Mrs. Jane A. Zimmerman 2. APPROIAL OF MINUTES On mo ion by Mr. Wiggins and seconded by Mr. Donaldson and carried, the Minut s of the Regular Meeting of September 2, 1977 were approved as mailed. (1) 3. APPROVAL OF CLAIMS On motion by Mr. Robinson and seconded by Mr. Wiggins and carried, the follo ing claims in the amount of $20,618.31 were approved as submitted and allowed and ordered paid. REDEVELOPMENT DISTRICT CAPITAL James R. Meehan & Associates $ 8.14 John C. Pence Associates, Inc. 800.00 Curly's Sales and Service 114.50 Jerome E. Michaels 800.00 TOTAL $ 1,722.64 REDEVELOPMENT REVOLVING FUND Kevin J. Butler $ 200.00 Credit Bureau of South Bend - Mishawaka 5.00 IBM Corporation 242.29 IBM Corporation 46.80 Postmaster 18.05 Singer General Tire, Inc. 16.50 Xerox Corporation 11.80 Downtown Idea Exchange 45.00 Amoco Oil Company 72.77 Payroll: 8 -13 -77 to 8 -26 -77 2,734.04 TOTAL $ 3,392.25 PROJECT EXPENDITURE ACCOUNT INDIANA R -66 Allied Construction Company Kevin J. Butler Edward Chapleau James R. Meehan & Associates O'Neal Trucking Company, Inc. Charl s F. Sonneborn James IE. Childs & Associates 312 L Charles Brown Maintenance R.E. Carlton, Inc. Circle Lumber Company Circle Lumber Company Circle Lumber Company Color ile McKinley Lumber Niezciodski & Sons $ 351.76 1,441.30 640.00 14.40 . 3,119.86 875.76 7CC Z7 TOTAL $ 6,698.45 (2) $ 2,240.00 781.27 717.63 18.78 863.82 43.86 54.60 168.00 3. APPRO AL OF CLAIMS (CONT' 312 LOANS (CONT'D) Sears Roebuck & Company Ace Brothers Hubert L. Weaver, Realtor Rummel Heating Company Vande heyden Eavestrough Service Roscoe Bailey City Awning of South Bend L.L. Geans & Sons 84 Lumber Company Deak �lectric Huber L. Weaver TOTAL GRAND TOTAL 4. COMMUNICATIONS $ 87.29 500.00 280.00 1,053.18 206.60 325.00 462.28 1.75.00 202.66 585.00 an nn $ 8,804.97 $ 20,618.31 a. Letter dated September 6, 1977 from Charles F. Keller, MAI, SRPA, xpressing interest in doing real estate appraisal work that comes �vailable through our agency. Mr. Nimtz requested a is a er be received and placed on i e for future appraisal work consideration. b. Letter dated September 9, 1977 from Keith P. Crighton regarding ommissioner iggins suggestion to investigate insulating homes requiring onversion to gas heating units. Mr. Wiggins thanked Mr. Crighton tor is reply and Mr. Nimtz directed that this be received and placed on file. C. Memorandum from Marc Brammer, of LPA staff requesting approval of a proposal or reimbursement for Course 101 - for the Society of ea state Appraisers, Intensive Courses a commission agreed that there would be no diffic ulty in granting Mr. Bra.mmer a leave of absence from January 30, 1978 to February 10, 1978 to attend this class at the University of Purdue, and his receiving ormal pay during this leave. Reimbursement of his expenses for this class will be subject to legal counsel decision and availability of funds through Community Development. Mr. Wiggins moved approval subject to the above mentioned terms, seconded by Mr. Robinson and carried. reI . Brownell indicated that at this time an addendum to the agenda of o items might be entered into the minutes, etter dated September 13, 1977 from Stephen J. Havens, Director, ommunity Planning and Development Division, approving Change--(Tr-der Contract D-37 Julius O'Neal ruc ing Company. Mr. Nimtz or eyed is letter be received and placed on ti e. The net Change Order amount s $800.00. The total contract amount is now $16,799.00. (3) 4. COMMUNICATIONS (CONT -D e tter dated September 13, 1977 from Stephen J. Hav mmunity Planning and Development Division, approv , Contract D -39, Ritschard Brothers. Mr. Nimtz o ceived and placed on file. The Change Order net e total contract amount is now $62,101.45. 5. OLD BUSINESS ens, Director, ing Change Order rdered this letter increase was $8,347.46. a. Approval of contracts for acquisition appraisals in Project R -66 or Mr. Ron Gettel and Mr. Ralph Lauver. Mr. Brownell indicated he had re- negotiated with the appraisers and the contracts are now at a cost of $12,000.00 each instead of the $14,400.00 each as presented at the September 2, 1977 meeting. Mr. Brownell also indicated that the 1ppraisers would try to complete the appraisals in a shorter period of ime, even though the contract still reads 120 days. Mr. Wiggins moved he approval, seconded by Mr. Donaldson and carried. b, The bids on Contract Set #04 were rejected by the Commission at their regular eetinq August 5, 1977. The contract set now designated #4A were rebid and he following were the low bidders: Contract Set 4A Charles Brown Maintenance $ 30,929.50 Contract Set 4A Joe Kocsis Electric Company $ 6,716.00 tontract tract Set 4A R.A. Stickler Plumbing $ 3,611.00 Set 4A Area Services, Inc. $ 3,102.00 ith the contract bids attached from the August 5, 1977 meeting Mr. rownell indicated that these new bids indicated a savings of $9,489.25. r. Robinson suggested to Mr. Crighton that he check with Mr. Kocsis of Dcsis Electric to see if he is doing all of the work himself. Mr. obinson indicated that it is hard to enforce an owner /operator to any ind of wage scale, but if he has any help at all, for some reason there ight be some game - playing as far as fairness in bidding. Mr. Wiggins Oved for approval, seconded by Mr. Robinson and carried. 6. NEW BUSINESS a. Commission approval was requested for the following change orders: Yr. Brownell described Change Order #1 Contract No. NWCD /27 (1243 Lincolnway West) as a deletion of an item that was not charged for by the contractor, but needed to be deleted from the contract. Mr. Wiggins moved approval, seconded by Mr. Donaldson and carried. ange Order #1 Contract No. NWCD /27 (914 North Brookfield) was a mbination of a deletion and an addition, $175.00 deletion, and $895.00 ded making the net addition $720.00. Mr. Wiggins asked why this did t appear in the original inspection to which Mr. Davis answered that bad roof contributed greatly and the owner was not physically able to t upstairs. Mr. Wiggins moved the approval, seconded by Mr. Donaldson d carried. (4) 6. NEW BUSINESS (CONT'D b. Oommission approval was requested for the following change orders: wo Change Order #1's for Contract Set 3/10 for 522 South Meade were equested, the reason for two change orders being the subcontracting f the work involving a plumbing contractor and general contractor. 255.00 was to be added to the plumbing contract for the installation of fibergalss tub enclosure. $48.00 was to be minused from the general onstruction contract because the marlite was no longer needed on the athroom walls. Mr. Wiggins moved approval, seconded by Mr. Donaldson nd carried. hange Order #2, Contract No. CS -8/65 for 217 East Pennsylvania is a inus of $250.00 for the installation of a 40 gallon water heater. he reason for the deletion on the contract is that this work was one under emergency repair. Mr. Wiggins moved for approval, seconded y Mr. Robinson, and carried. r. Butler indicated that items "C" and "D" under "New Business" are ombined in Resolution 541 which is presented at this meeting for ommission approval. Mr. Brownell indicated that our attorneys have rafted Resolution 541 to provide for the financial close out of roject R -66 in August, 1978 and to provide local bonding funds in he event that Urban Mass Transportation Administration funds are not vailable and /or the Economic Development Administration grant does of materialize. Mr. Wiggins moved for approval, seconded by Mr. Donaldson nd unanimously carried by the commission. e. Aareement between redevelopers and the Redevelopment Commission regarding he urchase- of- project land. Mr. Brownell asked that the commission pass his item to our next regular meeting. f. Mr. Brownell indicated that HUD has approved the audit conducted by John Dobson & Company, however due to a back -log in typing the confirmation 4lephone. tter has not been received by us. The HUD information was received via g. Mr. Brownell indicated that our atto ith Barton - Aschman Associates, Inc. 10,000.00. Barton - Aschman has been arking study in connection with the moved that this contract between the schman be approved, seconded by Mr. rneYs have also prepared a contract for a parking study at a cost of the firm that conducted our previous "Super - Block" proposal. Mr. Wiggins Redevelopment Department and Barton - Donaldson and carried. this time a final item on the addendum to the agenda was entered ifnto e minutes of this meeting. h. dommission approval is requested of the following 312 loans!: (5) 7. NEW BUSINESS (CONT'D h. (Cont 'd) ohn D. & Prince E. Sessom 09 East Indiana Avenue lfred R. & Olivia H. Belardes 19 Cushing Street stella McFadden 501 West Huron Street athryn Eichler 119 Dayton ichael J. Gibbons 11 North Blaine elores Williams 201 Revere Place Loan No. Amount: Loan No. Amount: Loan No. Amount: Loan No. Amount: Loan No. Amount: Loan No. Amount: 18 /MC- 11/15/1 -77 $ 5,300.00 18 /MC= 11/12/1 -77 $ 5,200.00 18 /SOU- 2/16/1 -76 -77 $ 5,300.00 18 /MC- 11/15/1 -77 $ 3,450.00 18 /MC- 11/16/1 -77 $ 6,300.00 18 /SOU- 2/17/1 -76 -77 $ 3,450.00 r. Robinson moved that these contracts be approved, seconded by Mr. onaldson and carried. FLOOR DISCUSSION The chair recognized Mr. Douglas Kline from Power Discount Drugs. "I am is thi "Inwoi This There this who h� past trend have do the alone park; parker I can parki i and ti went to be busin of bu! have Unive. have 1ette deeply concerned about the downtown redevelopment dnd my background �t I have lived here all my life. My father was shot and killed in )ds" three years ago, and I think I do understand business downtown. s all I have known all my life, and I am concerned about parking. has been a lot of hurt in the past, and I know some of the people in •oom are customers of Power Drug. I know that we have a lot of people ive come into the store who have been hurt in the redevelopment in the ind that were forced out of business. For some reason or other, this keeps continuing. I am against the concept of parking; I think we do not .he proper parking facilities and I don't believe the parking garage will job. Just coming up here I noticed that in the lot from our business and in redevelopment land, including the hole, approximately 300 cars and I notice that through Wyman's and Osco's another 100 cars are being 1, so there are roughly 400 cars right there. Suppose a garage of 700; perceive problems if a mall were to be built, there would not be enough ig. If I were shopping, and had to drive clear to the top of a garage irn right around and drive right back out because of lack of parking, :o another garage, found it was filled; to do the business that will have done there will have to be around ten to twelve Million Dollars of !ss, most new, and I assure you, I cannot believe that we have that kind iness that is going to come to downtown South Bend. This business will :o leave some other area, Scottsdale or some other place. By 1979 �sity Mall will come into effect and we will not know the effects it will in downtown. So with these thoughts in mind, I am willing to submit a • to the redevelopment commission that I wish to be put in file or recorded, (6) 7. FLOORIDISCUSSION (CONT'D Mr. K ine (cont'd) ...if you want to throw it out, it's up to you, but it is addressed to Mr. Nimtz, of whom I have high regard for. Dear Mr. Nimtz: A number of downtown businessmen and interested parties are intending to remonstrate against Resolution 540 at the October 7, 1977' public hearing to be held by the Redevelopment Commission. We would appreciate receiving in writing a detailed procedure of what this required to both initiate and complete the remonstrance process and the deadlines for the same. We also request a definition as to what parties are allowed to remonstrate against Resolution 540; for example, property owners, tenants, taxpa )ers, and /or concerned citizens and so forth. If so, please describe in detail the procedures to be followed and also include the procedures which will be followed at the public hearing on October 7, 1977. We are reque ting you to have your legal staff define the subject for us in an easi1 followed step -by =step explanation so there can be no misunderstanding. We th nk you for your assistance and await an early and timely reply. This is generally all I have to say, I appreciate your time and I would like you t consider a lot of the factors of the businesses involved; we are involved too, I want to stay downtown, I don't want to leave downtown; and back in November when Power Discount was ready to close the business, not because of a lack of business, we have always had good business, but due to thE fact that Cook United was getting out of the drug retailing business and I wanted to stay downtown, I contacted members of the Downtown Council who Were willing to assist me to establish, and yet this is a contradiction in a sense, a young man, who will be 34 in December, wanting to locate in downtown. I have faith in downtown and I believe in downtown. We are not losinc money, we are making money. Many merchants are making money downtown with vhat we have as bad as it may seem. We are at our lowest point right now a d I think from now on, we are going to go up. I have enough faith in downtown to personally pledge my own assets behind my business, but blindly somet mes they will just mow you down and don't seem to care. Our petition, in ca a you want to know has over 1,000 signatures, perhaps 1,500 right now. Thank you for your time." Mr. Nimtz thanked Mr. Kline for coming and reiterated his knowledge of the situation on both sides of the fence. He referred Mr. Kline's letter to legal counsel and assured Mr. Kline of an answer but warned of the technicality of pr cedures due to the involvement of federal funds. Mr. Butler indicated that Indiana Statutes spell out the procedure for remonstrance, but that he would be happy to talk to Mr. Kline's attorney to concur with him on the proce ures. Mr. Nimtz recognized Barbara Schankerman: "I st ongly object to your passing of resolutions without making them public prior to your vote. Passing resolutions without making them public prior to your ote does not allow a citizen any time to prepare and file a remonstrance. Yestei secrei Redev( The sE day, at approximately 3:30 p.m. I requested from the redevelopment ary a copy of the three items, two resolutions and an agreement on the lopment Commission's agenda that concerned the proposed downtown mall. cretary explained to me that these documents were still at the lawyers (7) 7. FLOORIDISCUSSION (CONT'D Barba a Schankerman (cont'd) ...and, hence, were unavailable. She went on to say after I questioned her, that the Redevelopment Commissioners, also, will not have read the documents prior to commencing the meeting. These items are very important governmental business. They concern the proposed downtown mall project. The documents explaining these items in detai should have been available to the public several days before the scheduled vote. The public has the right to scrutinize if it so desires. You Commissioners have a responsibility of voting intelligently and in the best nterests of the citizenry. No one can make a sound decision by glanc ng at the documents for the first time a few minutes before the vote. You should get and study copies of all resolutions, agreements, etc. in advance of the voting day so that you can be prepared for your vote. Regardless of the legality of not having the resolution available to the Commissioners, the press, and concerned citizens until just before the vote, not having the resolution available for the public's inspection is BAD politics. It suggests to me what are they trying to hide? Based on my former comments to this Commission, I urge you to vote NO!! At the least, because the public has not had a chance to read the resolutions and agreement and then remonstrate if they so desire, I say: postpone the vote! I ask that Mr. Brownell, Mr. Nimtz, and also the legal staff reply. I request that this objection be made a part of the record." Mr. N mtz concurred that this would be made part of the official record. Mr. Robinson indicated to Ms. Schankerman that the quotes you made trying to fitid information, if she were my secretary and had told you anything I would have canned her. There are proper places and proper people to talk to without trying to subject secretaries, other personnel, who have no authority to disclose information to anyone. This is a position I would take. Your other comments you are entitled to make, but I think you took the wrong approach. Mr. Nimtz recognized Mr. Chris Overgaard: "I wa t to agree with what has been presented here and I think that perhaps my position on this is as a member of the Odd Fellows Building. I too am particular about the downtown relocation or the perhaps 300 employees who will be out of work. I think probably what really bothers me more than anything else is the manner in which this whole procedure has come forward. The d ctatorial directions from the Mayor...I think it is wrong. Now if we operated our County government in the same manner as this whole procedure is haiidled, then you better throw me out of office, and I agree with Barbara, I don t know if you people come under the "sunshine act" but you have to be open and candid about it. I am concerned about the cost to the citizens of this project downtown. You expect me to pay for three hours of free parking, you don't even give my clients three hours of free parking now. You don't pay for walkways, I have in my pocket an article from Indianapolis.showing the way a mall should be developed without destroying everything. I don't understand why you have o tear everything down for progress. I am not opposed to progress, or the nonce t, but I think we ought to preserve what we have down here and try to build aroun it and rectify the mistakes we have made in the past. Thank you." (8) 7. FLOORIDISCUSSION (CONT'D Barbara Schankerman asked Mr. Robinson what the procedure was for having a resolution. Mr. Robinson answered by saying that he believed Mr. Brownell was in charge of this office and that the redevelopment secretary should have said you could only speak to Mr. Brownell for answers to your questions. Mr. Brownell added that he informed his staff that in the future should anyone ask for information that nothing was to be given out without his approval. Ms. S hankerman remarked that that was all that had to be said, to which Mr. Brown Ell remarked now she knew and she understood and she should talk to him: Ms. Schankerman asked to see the legal verification that states that it is not proper to have anybody able to see the resolution prior to vote, this was the purpose of her statement and the answer she wanted to hear. Mr. Brownell told er that he did not believe we were required to prepare resolutions in advance, that the resolution was in Mr. Butler's office and he did bring the resolution in question into this office prior to the beginning of this meeting. The Members of the Commission were fully aware of the attorneys working on this resolution. Mr. Butler also answered Ms. Schankerman's question by stating that there is no requirement under the "sunshine law" or any other law that requires resolutions be made available prior to the meeting. Mr. K witho repli couns simpl downt the q Butle is he indic in le the p respo findi peopl and w Andre law" to the All i- those the m in th of thi prior mail i1 evenii press to wh that or eai at th adden, ine asked how could the commission vote affirmative on this resolution t having seen the resolution prior to its vote this morning. Mr. Nimtz d that this is possible because of the great confidence held in the legal 1 of this Commission. Mr. Butler indicated that this resolution is a resolution that states other than including a legal description of the wn area, it contains the language on the agenda. Mr. Wiggins added that estion is not the legal technicality, it is just the purpose... Mr. stated that if there was something beyond what this resolution actually would have suggested it be read or explained in detail. Mr. Kline ted that this did not look good, and that he understands the confidence al ability. Mr. Wiggins stated that it was very pleasing to see all of blic interest in this matter, in years past the trustees who have the sibility of appointing or electing commissioners had some problems g people who were interested. It may be that we now have a series of who might be candidates for the job of a redevelopment commissioner, wish them good luck. Wood questioned if this Commission has been complying with the "sunshine o which Mr. Brownell indicated that copies of the agenda were mailed out press and posted on our bulletin board 48 hours prior to the meeting. ems discussed this morning, including the resolution, with exception to special items, noted on the addendum to the agenda, were contained in iled and posted agenda. Mr. Butler clarified the "sunshine law" to everyone t as he has read it and re -read it that it does not require submission agenda prior to the meeting, it requires posting of the agenda 48 hours if an agenda is used normally by the meeting body. It does not require g to the press. Mr. Brownell did mail the agenda as prepared Tuesday g or Wednesday morning to the media. We are not required to notify the in advance of the meeting if the meetings are held on a regular basis ch I have advised Mr. Brownell from this point forward to notify the press egular meetings of this Commission are held on the first and third Fridays h month. The Commission is obligated under this law to reconfirm this beginning of each year. Ms. Schankerman indicated that the indicated um was not given to her when she picked up a copy of the agenda prior to (9) 7. FLOORIDISCUSSION CONT'D the m eting. Mr. Butler stated that this is not required, the items came to Mr. Brownell after the original agenda had been posted and we are not limit d to the agenda that is posted. Ms. Schankerman objected to this to which Mr. Butler added that the "sunshine law" is ambigious in this respect. Mr. Joseph D. Anderson interjected by saying that "the answers I have heard are based on legality or illegality; whether or not the "sunshine act" may or may not a ply. Do these resolutions involve public funds ?" Mr. Butler answered no. The r solution adopted today strictly...Mr. Anderson asked if they (the resolution) invol ed state, federal or city funds...Mr. Butler answered that he thought all of out actions involved funds, public funds. Mr. Anderson stated "that from the c aracter of the answers I have heard here since I got in here it appears to me that the Commission is hiding behind the fact that in your opinion the "suns ine law" does not apply—that you are saying that even in matters of gr at public interest which you knew before this meeting were of great publi interest, will not be publicized to the public or the press to know in ad ance. You will run it through your normal routine fashion whether the publi is interested or not and I believe that hiding behind the "sunshine law" or an thing else that is a matter of great public interest is contrary to your cath of office." Mr. Butler added that he did not think anyone was hidinc behing the law, that he was just pointing out that the requirements of th "sunshine law" in these meetings were determined in his mentioned opinion of that law. As far as the resolution is concerned it was not un- avail ble for any reason other than it had not been prepared... Mr. Anderson intern pted by saying that "perhaps if preparation takes that long there should be a (elay in bringing it before the Commission and afford the public an opportunity to hear it." Mr. Butler added that when that item was under discussion by the Commissioners, when the people from the audience had an opportunity to discuss the r solution...Mr. Anderson interrupted... "Mr. Butler if it takes you until the last minute to prepare the resolution, how long do you think it takes laymen to in uire into the meaning of its legality, its pertinence, do you think it will take ihem 30 seconds ?..." Mr. Butler answered "No, the resolution was available about 15 minutes before the meeting ... my point is that if there was concern by anyone in the audience with respect to those resolutions they could have asked at that time that they be given time to question and review. I heard no discussion at all concerning the resolution." Mr. Anderson added "this is after thought." Mr. Butler added that we have handled many matters before that have been deferred... Mr. Anderson added "for reasons best known' to the public.." Mr. W ggins objected to that statement: " the actions were taken at public meetings whatever public was here, heard what went on, if they have had any input there has never been any meeting of the Commission to my knowledge, and I have attended practically all of them, to where the public has not had a full opportunity to provide input. With all due respect to you sir, this is the first time I have seen you at one of our meetings.." Mr. Anderson replied that "this is the f rst time that the private actions of the Mayor, Common Council, and all the elected and appointed officials of the City have tried to trample on the public right so openly and obviously." Mr. N mtz recognized Mrs. Allen: Mrs. Allen asked if the resolution's purpose was to close out the Project R -66 in 19118 to which Mr. Brownell answered yes, a financial close out which will happep in August of 1978. Mrs. Allen asked if there would be another extension to th s project to which Mr. Brownell answered no, absolutely not, HUD has been pushitig us to close out for years and now we have agreed to do so in August of 1978. (10) 7. FLOORIDISCUSSION (CONT'D Mrs. Allen asked what would happen if the downtown project didn't go, where would the money come from to pay back to HUD. Mr. Brownell indicated that we dic not owe HUD anything that we owed the trust company ... and that the financial settlement in 1978 would pay off the project notes. Mr. Anderson asked who paid them off and where did the money come from and Mr. Brownell indicated that the Commission paid off the notes and that the money would come from crants that HUD held back from us. Mr. Anderson asked if there was any guarantee that involved the City of South Bend to make up any deficits that night arise? Mr. Brownell added that he didn't think so ... Mr. Anderson added that "while you may not think so Mr. Brownell is it not a fact that if this program goes through, the City has to guarantee to make up any deficits and over-costs of the project ?" Mr. Brownell answered "you are talking about another thing, we are talking about the close out of Project R -66, a Section 112 B Financial Settlement." Mr. Anderson asked "what were the previous over - uns on our earlier projects that the City had to pick up ?" Mr. Brownell didn't know of any. Mr. Anderson said "you don't know of any, would an audit reveal such costs ?" Mr. Brownell said an audit would. Mr. Anderson said " were ou ever audited ? "... Mr. Brownell said we have to have an audit every two y ars...Mr. Anderson asked "were you ever audited specifically for the purpose of determining the costs that the City had to pick up ?" Mr. Brownell added that if there were, the audit would reveal it. Mr. Anderson asked "if those records existed, are they available to the public ? "...Mr. Brownell said yes they existed, and he didn't know if they would be public information. Mr. A derson said "if I asked for them would you refuse to let me see them..." Mr. Brownell said he did not know the answer to that ... Mr. Anderson said "I would constitute that to be a refusal if you don't know the answer." Mr. Brown Ell said "you can constitute anything you want I don't really care what you constitute." Mr. Anderson said "I know you don't really care..." Mr. Brown Ell added he didn't like Mr. Anderson's attitude... that you question us as though you felt we were dishonest. We have been audited on every project, everything has been taken care of and there are no problems. There has been an au it on this present project, and it was just accepted September 2 by HUD.. an audit by John Dobson and Associates. Mr. Anderson asked if Mr. Dobson's audit included the determination of cost over -runs on prior projects...Mr. Nimtz interrupted, "No, this audit was just on this project, now let's settle this thing, Dick, if you want anything give Mr. Butler a letter of what you want and it will be determined if it can be furnished to you. Many of these projects have been close out and I presume records are in storage. We don't have the space up here to hold everything, HUD has complete records on everything...just give Mr. B tier a letter and if it can be legally given to you we will give it to you." Mr. A derson answered by saying that "firstly, I don't believe the public should have to give a letter requesting service, I think the public would be very interested and it would be a matter of good politics on your part to provide information to the public without written demand, or court order for them..." Mr. N mtz, said "Dick, there is no need for a court order . now just listen to me .. if you want anything give Mr. Butler a letter of what you want and we wi 1 give it to you if we can legally give it to you. I don't want you walki g in and verbally saying give us this, give us that, there has to be some -ecord of what has been asked for. It is as simple as that." Mr. Anderson added "if your lawyers indicate that I cannot get it I will not get it..." Mr. N mtz answered "I presume so if the attorneys say we cannot legally give this to you we can't. I don't know all the regulations and that is why we have Mr. Butler, although we differ politically, I respect his opinion and so far there has never been anything told me wrong. Mr. Anderson added... "we will hold fhat in abeyance." (11) 7. FLOORIDISCUSSION (CONT'D Mr. K ine asked a question about money that was put down by Associates in the previous Superblock proposal... "and then you don't hear of whether it was ever returned ... this leaves me with the impression that something is covered up. Is th -s going to be the same situation here, are they going to be bound to put d llars in and be legally bound, if they do not go through with this project, because the economy changes, what happens then, do these people lose their money or wi 1 it be given back? Is there a guarantee involved ?" Mr. Nimtz said this las been explained several times before and here again, with definite regulations from HUD as to what we can do and what we con't do, when federal money is taken you take the federal regulations along with it. They tell you what 3ou can do and what you cannot do. Mr. Butler explained further the proce ure on bidding for disposition property is the Commission at a planned time vhen the property in question is acquired, if the Commission decides that it wi 1 proceed, then following that determination, the Commission can offer the p operty for sale. With that offer then a notice will be made in the paper, bids will be received on a specified date, and with the bids, a 10% bid bond is re uired. Assuming that the various bids or bid received are in order they will be reviewed, and a determination made by the Commission to accept one of the bids, or bid or reject the bid or bids, then a schedule will be established at that point where the execution of a redevelopment contract and a ain, a performance bond is required, once the contract itself is execu ed. Prior to the execution of the contract if the party to whom the bid has been awarded, fails to enter into the contract or in some other way defaults, then the 10% bid bond would be retained by the Commission. The same is true after the contract has been entered into .... both the bid bond and the perfo Zumum nce bond will be retained. There is a minimum bid required, and that usually is set by the appraisal value of the property. Mr. A he ha propo after made of th said Counc commi Mr. B I hea "now Nimtz conti "a de part meeti clear Mr. A Mr. A Mr. N has t have canno at th derson questioned Mr. Brownell about his telling the Common Council that a commitment for the development—Mr. Brownell indicated that he said al ... Mr. Anderson asked if he had a commitment to bid on the property it has been acquired... Mr. Butler answered "No, we do not, we have his clear, we cannot legally take a commitment until we have possession property. Are you saying a legally binding commitment ?" Mr. Anderson "Yes, if I recall the remarks at the Common Council meeting the Common 1 was told at the time of the approval of the R -66 proposal that definite ments had been obtained by the proposed developers to bid on the property." tler added that" I was at the meeting and Mr. Brownell did not say nor did that and if he had I would have immediately..." Mr. Anderson interrupted it may have been ducked like some of the questions have been today..." Mr. commented "Now Dick do not say that..." "But there was ... Mr. Anderson rued..." a statement that the proposed developers..." Mr. Butler interrupted, finite statement was made today to you that no binding commitment on the of the developers has been made, and that same statement was made at the g in August when the Commission received the proposal. We stated very y that it was just a proposal...a letter of interest...a letter of intent." derson asked "that is not binding..." Mr. Nimtz added "it cannot be..." derson added that "I hope you make that clear to the Common Council..." imtz added, "Dick, I think where you are confused is that the developer e commitment from his proposed tenants... but Mr. Brownell and Mr. Butler teen with this Commission a long time and they both know that legally we take any money down, or enter into any agreement with these people... Is time." Mr. Anderson asked if their proposal to bid, does it include (12) 7. FLOORIDISCUSSION (CONT'D Mr. Alderson continued... "all of the property involved in R -66 for the Centu y Mall project ?" Mr. Butler stated "it includes the property bounded by Wa hington on the north, the service drive, just east of main street, the weste n boundary, the southern boundary of Jefferson Street, the eastern bound ry of St. Joseph Street, and it excludes the parking garage and the Sherl nd Building." "Does it include or exclude the Odd Fellows Building ?" asked Mr. Anderson. "It excludes it..." Mr. Butler continued... "the area that they are proposing to bid upon in their proposal did refer to a parking area between the service drive and Main Street which would include the Odd Fellows Building, but it is not within their project. Mr. Anderson added "then therefore, the Redevelopment has included Odd Fellows in R -66 for purpo es known only to the Redevelopment Commission and the City of South Bend." "I th nk that was discussed," stated Mr. Butler, "both at the Commission meeti g when Resolution 540 was adopted and also the hearing before the Common Counc 1." Mr. Anderson clarified, "If I understand what you are saying... the 1 nd and building known as the Odd Fellows building will be no part of the C ntury Mall which is the purpose of amending R -66 in the first place... the Odd Fellows building and its property will be involved solely in acquisition for purposes of the City of South Bend to avoid going through a specific con- demnation of the property by the City of South Bend in which event they could not prevail ... in other words Redevelopment would acquire this property..." Mr. Butler answered the question simply no that is not correct. Mr. Anderson added "well then what is the purpose of the Redevelopment Commission acquiring the Odd Fellows building ?" Mr. Butler stated it is "added as a part of the overa 1 approach in the downtown area by the Redevelopment Department in Indiana R -66 Mr. Anderson stated "it is not then the intent of the City to take that property and build a garage ?" Mr. Butler: "At this point I think that this is the understanding or intent. It has not been finalized by the Commission." "So, " said Mr. Anderson, "that the only purpose of the R -66 Project including the Odd Fellows building at this moment is for the purpose of the City of South Bend to build a parking garage on that property." Mr. Butler reiterated: "It i the concept at this time to include a parking garage on that property and all of the property between Main Street and Jefferson." Mr. Anderson concluded " and ten that is the only purpose of the Odd Fellows building ? "... Mr. Butler repli d that was the correct concept. Mr. D naldson asked that the gentleman speaking identify himself. Mr. Nimtz identified him as Mr. Joseph Dick Anderson, a respected attorney, one of the entre reneuers concerned with the purchase of the Odd Fellows building. Mrs. Illen was recognized by Mr. Nimtz: "Do we now have to remonstrate to the City f South Bend in regards to the Odd Fellows Building ?" Mr. Nimtz replied that ro this was still a part of the redevelopment project, and resolution, and that ihe public hearing on October 7, 1977 at 10:00 a.m. is the proper place to remonstrate. Mr. K ine asked of Build ng, the Wyman purpose of possible yes, t is for the futuri development. the commission if the reason for the acquisition of the Oliver property, and the old American Bank Building was for the further expansion of this development... Mr. Brownell said development of the downtown, the future to provide for the (13) 7. a FLOORIDISCUSSION (CONT'D Mr. A derson asked of Mr. Brownell when was the Odd Fellows Building and acqui ition of other properties for demolition decided..." Mr. Brownell answered in 19-)1. Mr. Anderson asked if it "was for purposes of the amended R -66 that the w ll on the east side of the Odd Fellows Building was left standing ?" Mr. Nimtz added this has been before the Commission on various other occasions and as I recall the City engineer and other engineers looked at this matter and determined that there is no difficulty... Mr. Butler added that Mr. Ed Chapl au would have more answers to this question... that everything that had to be done was done and he would recommend that Mr. Anderson get in touch with Ed. r. Anderson said "I have furnished Mr. Chapleau with copies of surveys, deman ed that the wall be taken down, not only for the purposes of stopping the d preciation on our property, but also for public safety. There has been no re ponse." Mr. Nimtz.asked Mr. Butler to have Ed Chapleau get in touch with Mr. A derson on his questions of this matter. Ms. S hankerman asked if she might direct an answer to Mr. Butler "when he told us with regard to the rosolution that we should have brought this up at the time the resolution was up... at the August 5 meeting Mrs. Hawley was told her place was at the floor discussion, and August 19, I asked to speak and was told the proper place was at floor discussion. We have not had been (liven a chance." Mr. Nimtz replied "now this is not true, but if you have an objection to something... I recall in regards to Mrs. Hawley, we had asked for comments, and hearing none went on to another thing which she interrupted to discuss something else." Ms. Schankerman asked "that in the future with regard to objections, please do give us the floor on these matters. Mr. N mtz indicated that Mrs. Allen has been here for many, many years and whenever there is an item on the agenda she dosen't like we hear about it immed ately. The 4xt Commission meeting will be conducted on October 7, 1977, which is the p blic hearing on the Urban Renewal Project. Mr. N mtz asked for a motion for adjournment, Mr. Donaldson moved for adjou nment, seconded by Mr. Wiggins. The meeting adjourned at 11: 15 a.m. ell, Executive Director Jay imtz, President (14)