HomeMy WebLinkAboutRM 11-19-76�a
SOUTH BEND REDEVELOPMENT COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
November 19, 1976
10:00 A. .
Presidin Officer: Mr. F. Jay Nimtz
President
1200 County -City Building
217 West Jefferson Blvd.
1. ROLL
CALL
Com
issioners
Mr.
F. Jay Nimtz, President
Present
Mr.
Donald A. Wiggins, Vice President
Mr.
A. Peter Donaldson, Secretary
Mr.
Lloyd E. Robinson, Sr., Member
Legal
Counsel
Mr.
Kevin J. Butler
Mr.
George T. Patton
News
Media
Ms.
Jeanne Derbeck, South Bend Tribune Reporter
Mr.
Larry Ford, WSJV -TV Reporter
Mr.
Mike Newman, WSJV -TV Photographer
Mr.
Dan Caesar, WSBT -TV Reporter
Others
Present
Mr.
Gene Evans, Exec. Secretary, Civic Planning Assn.
Mr.
John V. Lindstaedt, Fair Tax Assn.
7
Mr.
Dave Gruver, Dictaphone Corporation
Comj uni ty
Development Mr.
Staff Mr.
Mr.
LPA Staff Mr.
Ms.
Mr.
Keith P. Crighton
John Davis
Richard E. Pfeifer
C. Wayne Brownell Mr. James J. Rowan
Gertrude E. Barth
Marc Brammer
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
On liotion by Mr. Wiggins, seconded by Mr. Donaldson and carried,
the Minutes of the Regular Meeting of November "5, 1976 were
approved as mailed.
3.
APPROVAL OF CLAIMS
On motion by Mr. Wiggins, seconded by Mr. Donaldson and carried,
the claims were approved, as submitted, and were allowed and
ord red to be paid - totalling $38,159.24.
MINUTES
APPROVED
CLAIMS
APPROVED
COMMISSIONERS" REGULAR MEETING
Page 2
Friday, November 19, 1976
3. ThO authorized claims are:
PROJECT
EXPENDITURE ACCOUNT, INDIANA R -57
tract Co. of St. Joseph County, Inc.
$ 25.00
Ab
Ab
tract & Title Corporation
50.00
George
T. Patton
560.00
Total
$ 635.00
PROJECT
EXPENDITURE ACCOUNT, INDIANA
Systems, Inc.
R -66
$ 191.80
Business
Na
tilus /Kuert Concrete, Inc.
1,884.92
Na
tilus Construction Corporation
8,000.00
Total
$10,076.72
312e
LOANS
ert & Helen Hubler /South Bend Roofing
$ 1,867.00
Ro
Ka
alyn Brooks /Joseph J. Plaia
11,840.50
Mary
Ann Norman /Joseph J. Plaia
9,777.50
Total
$23,485.00
REDEVELOPMENT
REVOLVING FUND
Payroll: October 16 to October
29, 1976
$ 3,335.46
Amoco
Oil Company
73.19
Kevin
J. Butler
200.00
Business
Systems, Inc.
16.82
ComTiunity
Development Program
337.05
$-3,962.52
GRAND TOTAL
$38,159.24
REI
BURSEMENT TO REVOLVING FUND
Expenditure Account, Indiana
R -66
$ 3,175.67
Project
4. CORRESPONDENCE
a.
St. Joseph River Bend Development Corp. letter dated November 9, EASEMENT
1976: This letter concerns the easement between Indiana & INDIANA R -66
Michigan Electric Company and the parties of interest in BLOCK 6
the Block 6 Development. Mr. Brownell read the above letter
and suggested that it be placed on file. The Chair indicated
that it was more appropriate to refer the matter to legal
counsel.—Mr—Wiggins so moved, seconded .by Mr. Donaldson
and carried. Mr. Brownell noted that he would like to discuss
the matter with Mr. Butler.
COMMISSIONERS REGULAR MEETING
Page 3
Friday, November 19, 1976
4. C
M
c
91
e.
ESPONDENCE, CONT.
St. Joseph River Bend Development Corp. letter dated Nov. 10,
1976, signed by Lloyd S. Taylor: This letter concerns a
problem which the contractor has encountered in the con-
struction of the site improvements in Block 6. Mr. Brownell
read this letter from Mr. Taylor and indicated that he had
personally discussed the matter with Mr. Taylor and told him
that he (Brownell) did not feel the Department is obligated
in the matter since River Bend Development had the opportunity
to check all of these items ahead of time.
Mr. Wiggins asked whether we have any recourse if the sewer
line is not as it was guaranteed to us. The Chair asked if
the drawings were done by the City Engineer's office - Mr.
Brownell said the drawings were done by the Contractor and
certified by the Engineer's office.
The Chair then indicated that unless there was some objection
he would refer this letter to Mr. Butler. Being none, such
letter was referred to Legal Counsel.
HUD Area Office letter, dated November 3, 1976, signed by
Albert G. Smith for Stephen J. Havens: This letter referred
to the redevelopment of Disposition Parcel 2 -6A by Peoples
First Federal Savings & Loan Assn. and approved redeveloper's
statement for such purpose. Mr. Wiggins moved to place this
letter on file. Mr. Donaldson seconded the motion and it
carried.
IND. R -66
BLOCK 6
SEWER LINE
COLUMBIA ST.
DISP. PARCEL
2 -6A, IND. R -66
PEOPLES FIRST
FEDERAL SAVINGS
& LOAN ASSN.
John G. Pence Associates, Inc. dated November 16, 1976, signed IND. R -66
by John G. Pence, President: This letter is an update of one REUSE APPRAISAL
received 10 -7 -76, same subject, land use change in R -66. Mr. JOHN G. PENCE
Brownell indicated that the principal change here is a clari-
fication of the number of housing units for elderly housing.
Mr. Brownell pointed out to Mr. Pence that we did not increase
elderly housing units only, we simply increased the housing
units from 200 to 350, 211 of which were for elderly housing and
the balance could be used for any purpose. Mr. Pence also included
data to substantiate his findings. Motion was made by Mr. Wiggins
and seconded by Mr. Robinson and carried, to place this letter
on file.
HUD Area Office letter, dated November 15, 1976, signed by IND. R -57
Stephen J. Havens, Director Community Planning & Development: PROJECT CLOSE -
C. Wayne Brownell read this letter and indicated this concerns OUT
a budgetary matter with total project expenditures estimated
to be $4,875,046 - plus the rehabilitation and relocation
payments, or anticipated final total of $5,549,670.
Motion was made by Mr. Wiggins with second by Mr. Robinson and
carried, to place this letter on file.
COMMISS ONERS' REGULAR MEETING
Page 4
Friday, November 19, 1976
5. OLD BUSINESS
a.
Change Order No. 5 and Pay Estimate No. 10, Contract No. 1, Plaza IND R -66
Park, with Nautilus Construction Co., Project Indiana R -66: PLAZA PARK
CONTRACT NO.
C. Wayne Brownell stated that this is a final change order for CHANGE ORDER
total adjusted contract price of $207,665.23. The original #5
contract bid price was $209,206.00 - thus we show a couple
thousand dollars under the original contract price.
Mr. Robinson indicated he did not understand how this change
order could represent an increase in contract price if the
final contract amount is under the original bid. Mr. Brownell
stated that this is the fifth (5th) change order and each of
the change orders represented an increase or decrease in the
contract price. One change order was for a reduction in the
contract of $10,000, thus the final amount represents an over-
all reduction in price. Mr. Brownell further stated that the
final change order was rejected as previously rendered and stated
that he told Nautilus he wanted no part of this until it was
clearly agreed upon and approved by the engineers.
Mr. Donaldson asked what the weather shield credit represented.
Mr. Brownell said he wasn't able to answer but presumed it might
be for money set aside to protect the work and it wasn't needed
because of the weather.
Mr. Rninson asked if the contractor has to guarantee his work for
approximately a year like any normal contract. Mr. Brownell
replied that he thought the contractor must guarantee the exposed
aggregate for three years.
Mr. Butler asked if the landscape work was all completed and Mr.
Brownell indicated that this has not been finalled out.
Mr. Robinson asked if there would be any money held in escrow
until after the year guarantee is up and Mr. Brownell stated he
did not think there was any money in escrow. Mr. Butler indicated
that there is a bond that is supposed to take effect for a three
year period, to take effect upon completion of the work.
Mr. Brownell stated that there is still a conflict between Nautilus
and a lumber company and we are holding that portion of the payment
until the problem is resolved and we know how much each one gets.
This is between their attorneys. The total amount has been deter-
mined but the apportionment between the two has not. This lumber
company was a supplier of Nautilus.
Gene Evans asked if the approximately 54 items on the four tabulated
pages come up to a total of $6,000 increase. Mr. Brownell explained
that these items represent final measurements, these are the items
which cover "so many feet of this" and "so many yards of that ",
the actual amount used compared to the projected amount in the
COMMISSIONERS' REGULAR MEETING
Page 5
Friday, November 19, 1976
5. OLDI BUSINESS, CONT.
original contract. Each of these measurements comes up to a plus
or minus to the original contract price.
Mr. Evans asked if this $6,000 was a previously agreed to work item.
Mr. Brownell said that it was since no one knew in advance how much
of bach would be needed.
Motion was made by Mr. Wiggins, with second by Mr. Donaldson and
car ied, to approve the above change order, #5.
6. Change Orders, various, for extension of time (30 days) for Madison CHANGE ORDERS
a -i Builders, Inc.Northwest Community Development Program. VARIOUS CON-
TRACTS, NORTH-
The 3e change orders represent a request for thirty day extension WEST COMMUNITY
of ontract time by Madison Builders due to the closing of a DEVELOP. PROGR
sup flier, South Bend Aluminum Center, as follows: EXTENSION OF
TIME
Robert & Anita Betty, Jr. 752 N. Cleveland Contr. NWCD /PR /CS -1 /01
Mary L. Coleman 517 N. Blaine " -1/02
Lee E. Watson
Wan a Hardesty
Jea nette W. Stewart
Ire a Minnis
Owei & Alberta Thomas
Edm nd & Irene Vitou
Louse Roundtree
612 N. Walnut " -1/04
537 N. Euclid " -1/05
656 LaPorte Ave It -1/06
537 N. Cleveland " -1/07
515 N. Cleveland " -1/08
672 N. Lawndale " -1/09
504 N. Euclid Ave. 11 -1 /11
The time extension is from November 3, 1976 to December 4, 1976 and
applies to all of the above contracts.
Keith Crighton indicated that it would be acceptable to approve all nine
cha ge orders by block motion. The Chair asked whether the new supplier
wil enable the contractor to finish in the stipulated time and he said
that Mr. Madison has so stated. Mr. Robinson asked if it would be for the
sama price. Keith said, "I think it will be more expensive,, but we
don't anticipate any change orders, Mr. Madison is bound by his contract."
Motion was made by Mr. Wiggins, seconded by Mr. Donaldson and carried,
to pprove above change orders extending contract completion time to
Dec mber 4, 1976.
COMMISSI NERS' REGULAR MEETING
Page 6
Friday, lovember 19, 1976
6. (j) Consideration of request for fund allocation for non - profit
groups for rehab of the following structures, per recommendation of
the Southeast Advisory Board. C. Wayne Brownell read the letter
from Mr. Kenneth Schaller and then asked Keith Crighton if his
understanding of the program is that this money will be used for
reha of the structures by a non - profit corporation which furnishes
the labor for this work.... is this assumption correct? Keith
indi ated that this is true, it comes under the non - profit group
reha program which has been in existence since 1974 and in the
past they have had a high degree of success with it. Mr. Robinson
inquired as to whether we have had our inspectors check the projects
out after the work was done. Keith stated that his department
prepares the specs and Renew, Inc. does the work with volunteer
labor.
Dan Caesar asked if they are licensed contractors.
REQUEST FOR
REHAB FUNDS
RENEW, INC. ETC,
(NON- PROFIT)
BUR. OF HOUSING
SOUTH - APPROVE[
Keith said that the work they do on a voluntary basis includes painting
sometimes a plumber who donates his services- they have to pay for the
electrical work they have done, then they have ,a roofer. They buy the
materials and he puts them up, like on week ends.
Dan (.:For free? How many workers are there altogether?
Keit�: Yes, for free - and the work force varies from six to fifteen
or sixteen.
Mr. 4iggins asked whether these non - profit groups were all church-
sponsored. Mr. Crighton indicated that Renew, Inc. is the central
division, at Christ the King Church and the rest of the divisions
are entered in neighborhood parishes...St. Augustines, St. Matthews,
etc. The Chair indicated that Southhold has had some contact with
these people which has all been favorable with good reports on relation-
ships and their work.
Mr. diggins observed that it was great to have such people willing to
do s )mething in terms of helping the neighborhoods. Keith explained
that with the home ownership program, the people have a 12 week home
ownership course which they must attend before they are eligible to
purc ase a home. Then the Renew, Inc. group sells them the home and
property at no profit. After the house is paid for, the homeowner has
a standard unit and is familiar with the various methods of proper main-
tenance and how to budget. This is really an excellent program. The
question was asked as to why we need a separate motion for each property
and Keith explained that the Advisory Board approved them individually,
so motion for approval must be on an individual basis. Mr. Wiggins
made the motion to approve request for 709 S. Liberty St., in the
amou t of $1,443.00, Renew, Inc., seconded by Mr. Donaldson and carried.
Mr. 4iggins moved to approve request for rehab of 710 W. Wayne, in the
amou t of $3,454.00, Renew, Inc., seconded by Mr. Donaldson and carried.
Mr. 4iggins moved to approve request for rehab of 735 Huey St., in the
amou t of $5,000.00, Renew, Inc., seconded by Mr. Donaldson and carried.
COMMISSIONERS' REGULAR MEETING
Page 7
Friday, November 19, 1976
6. (j) ont. Mr. Wiggins moved to approve request for rehab funds for
744 Diamond Avenue, $3,287.00, Renew, Inc. Holy Cross Division, with
sec nd by Mr. Donaldson, motion carried.
Motion was made by Mr. Wiggins to approve request for rehab funds for
112 Birner St., Renew, Inc., Holy Cross Division, $1,432.00, seconded
by r. Donaldson and carried.
Motion was made by Mr. Wiggins to approve request for rehab funds for
722 S. Grant St., $3,701.00, Renew, Inc. Spanish Division, seconded by
Mr. Donaldson and carried.
(k) Southeast Bureau/Housin g Contract Award, Contract Set #6A.....
C. Wayne Brownell read the letter from Kenneth Schaller stating
that this bid from Slatile Roofing & Sheet Metal, Inc. for $7,980.00
Contract No. 44, was the only bid received. Mr. Wiggins asked if
this bid comes within the range of our estimates. Keith said it is
a little high but our problem is that this is the third time we
have advertised on this in an attempt to get the cost down and we have
been unable to do it ... the house is just in poor condition.
Mr. Wiggins asked if it was fair to say that if we don't do something
soon, it will be a lost cause and Keith said "Yes, I'd sure say that."
Mr. Robinson asked if someone is residing in the house now and Keith
indicated that all of their houses are owner occupied.
CONTRACT SET
#6 -A, SOUTH-
EAST BUREAU
OF HOUSING
AWARDED TO
SLATILE ROOF,
CONTRACT CS-
5/44
Mr. Linstaedt inquired whether about 90% of all bids received by South -
East Bureau of Housing come from Slatile and Madison? Keith said that
they receive bids sporadically from Brown Maintenance, Slatile, Madison
Combs Construction and others but this is a bad time of year, with
contractors trying to finish up their work from this past summer and
he d es not expect any increase in bidding until about January or February.
Mr. iggins then moved to approve award of contract to Slatile Roofing
& Sh et Metal, Inc. in the amount of $7,980.00, subject to Common
Council and Legal Counsel review and approval, seconded by Mr. Robinson
and otion carried.
(1)
Southeast Bureau /Housing Contracts Award, Contract Set #6A...
CONTRACT SET
C. Wayne
Brownell read the letter from Mr. Schaller requesting award
#6A, SOUTHEA�
of contracts
as recommended by the Southeast Advisory Board, as
BUREAU OF
follows:
HOUSING -CS -6i
CS-6/47
717 E. Wenger St. $2,886.00 Slatile Roofing,etal
47,48,49 and '.
CS-6/48
206 E. Sample St. 2,960.00 " "
CONTRACTS
CS-6/49
127 E. Dubail Ave. 4,870.00
AWARDED TO
CS-6/50
605 -07 E. Keasey St. 2,920.00 "
SLATILE ETAL
COMMISSIONERS' REGULAR MEETINGS
Novembe 19, 1976
Paae 8
6. (I) cont. Mr. Wiggins asked Mr. Crighton whether these figures were
alsc within the estimates. Keith asked permission to jump ahead to
Ite 6(m) - all the houses included in 6(k), (1) and (m) were part of
one contract. The Advisory Committee selected those homes where the
bid was closest to the estimate, proportionately, and rejected those
ite s that were not proportionate to our cost estimate.
Mr. Wiggins moved to approve award of above contracts as set forth,
wit second by Mr. Donaldson..motion carried.
(m) Southeast Bureau /Housing Contracts Set #6A, Rejected ... C. Wayne
Brownell read Mr. Schaller's letter which recommended rejection of
the following contracts, per recommendation by the Southeast Advisory
Boa d:
Mr. Wiggins moved to reject the above contracts with review and re-
adv rtisement for bids as soon as possible. Motion was seconded by
Mr. Robinson and carried.
7. PROGRESS REPORTS
There were no progress reports.
SOUTHEAST BUR.
HOUSING
CONTRACTS CS-
6/45,6/46,6/51
and -6/52
REJECTED
8. Following a solicitation of comments from the press and /or the public
by the Chair, there was an animated discussion of the Sears decision
to move from the downtown area with Mr. Dan Caesar of WSBT -TV asking- quote:
for some assurances that this kind of thing does not happen again - and
the downtown deteriorate even further since the Department of Rede-
vel pment played a prime role in the Sears decision and that of other
businesses, to relocate elsewhere ".
The Chair: "I might say that we are not discouraged or disheartened by
the Sears announcement, I am sure that we are going forward- I have reason
to believe that the Mayor and Dr. Wing are proceeding with further plans
and personally, I have no doubt that South Bend will survive and we will
be a livable, viable community."
Mr. Caesar: "What active role is the Redevelopment Department taking to
insure that something like this does not happen again with the remaining
business downtown ?"
The Chair indicated that this Department has had inquiries from people who
are interested in moving downtown - since the Sears announcement - and
discussions are being held with these people and Mr. Brownell, but we
are not at liberty to disclose who they are at this time. Plans ARE
being formulated for future development of the downtown.
S -6/45
626 E.
Dubail Ave.
$6,945.00 Slatil.e Roofing,etal
S -6/46
1214 S.
Carroll St.
7,540.00 "
S -6/51
1803 S.
Fellows St.
6,908.00
S -6/52
420 E.
Haney St.
11,520.00 "
Mr. Wiggins moved to reject the above contracts with review and re-
adv rtisement for bids as soon as possible. Motion was seconded by
Mr. Robinson and carried.
7. PROGRESS REPORTS
There were no progress reports.
SOUTHEAST BUR.
HOUSING
CONTRACTS CS-
6/45,6/46,6/51
and -6/52
REJECTED
8. Following a solicitation of comments from the press and /or the public
by the Chair, there was an animated discussion of the Sears decision
to move from the downtown area with Mr. Dan Caesar of WSBT -TV asking- quote:
for some assurances that this kind of thing does not happen again - and
the downtown deteriorate even further since the Department of Rede-
vel pment played a prime role in the Sears decision and that of other
businesses, to relocate elsewhere ".
The Chair: "I might say that we are not discouraged or disheartened by
the Sears announcement, I am sure that we are going forward- I have reason
to believe that the Mayor and Dr. Wing are proceeding with further plans
and personally, I have no doubt that South Bend will survive and we will
be a livable, viable community."
Mr. Caesar: "What active role is the Redevelopment Department taking to
insure that something like this does not happen again with the remaining
business downtown ?"
The Chair indicated that this Department has had inquiries from people who
are interested in moving downtown - since the Sears announcement - and
discussions are being held with these people and Mr. Brownell, but we
are not at liberty to disclose who they are at this time. Plans ARE
being formulated for future development of the downtown.
COMMISSIONERS' REGULAR MEETING
Novembe 19, 1976, Friday
Paqe 9
8. Open1 discussion, continued....
Mr. Caesar: "One of the big questions that Sears had was parking - it
appeared that the downtown area could not give Sears adequate parking
and that is one of the reasons they decided to move elsewhere."
Mr. Wiggins pointed out that it was his understanding from people who
had talked to Sears officials, what Sears was saying was that they prefer
"ground'level" parking, "now obviously downtown we can't provide that
quantity of ground level parking because there isn't that much ground
and the ground itself has too much value to be used as 'a' space for
'a' car." It was pointed out by Mr. Wiggins that in the original feasibility
study and program for downtown we had programmed five parking garages
if your recall, which pointed to the fact that parking was a major
consideration. It still is. In the orderly development of the balance
of the downtown area, parking will have to be a consideration.
Mr. Wiggins further stated that people ought to consider that we don't have
a cr stal ball that tells us what is going to happen in the future any-
more than anyone else does. We have hired experts who were supposed to
be the best in this field and it turns out that their crystal ball was
cloudy too. It's real easy when it's all over for people to come along
and say "hey, you did it wrong ". We have said it to ourselves on occasion
but we are going to do the best job we can do - we will try and predict
the future as best we can. A part of this thing that should be borne in
mind too, the Tribune published just the other day a rather lengthy
article by Phil Welber who is the manager of Robertsons' Department
Store and "I thought it was a very upbeat, optimistic kind of article ".
Phil is doing a good business - this is what we have tried to hold up to
other people, we really believe the opportunity is here. We think Sears
had a great chance and I am sorry they didn't take it but that was their
decision and I think that a part of what people need to understand is that
you cannot force people into decisions.
Ms. Derbeck asked, "What about the continuation of the Mall now, in the
block between Jefferson and Washington - we have been held off on that
at the Mayor's request - to see what would happen with Superblock ?"
Mr. Wiggins: "I think this has to be part of the overall new look at that
property and how it can best be developed to accomodate the change in
use that appears to be on the scene. The Mall was held off in antici-
pation of Superblock and that confirmation is just a nice piece of
history now."
J. erbeck: "It means then that you are not going forward with continu-
ing the Mall ?"
Chair: "I think that as Don says we should wait until we see what we are
going to do with that area."
Ms. Derbeck: "Because I have been talking with some of the merchants and
the are not all happy with the Mall. Some people think they would just
as soon have some parking and street traffic ".
COMMISSIONERS' REGULAR MEETING
Page 10
Frid _Y, November 19, 1976
Open discussion, continued.......
Mr. Wiggins indicated that's what they have down there right now.
Dan Caesar: "Are you saying that there's a possibility that you won't
be finishing the north end of the Mall, where the supergraphic is ?"
Chair: "It depends on what goes in there."
Mr. Caesar: "Suppose no businesses locate there, what will you do
with the property ?"
Mr. Wiggins: "We can't look forward to this being vacant property
for the next ten years, we expect to do something for it and we
think there's a market for it - suppose we were to proceed with
some sort of cosmetic treatment of this street as was planned in
several different plans and then we come up with some people who
would like to locate in that area and who will want some different
conformation that will fit in with their plans - then we have fouled
the whole thing up ".
D. Caesar: "May I interrupt, what about the finished Mall and the
empty stores that are there- you're not really sure what's going
to happen there are you ?"
Mr. Wiggins: "True, like I said, the crystal ball is cloudy and we
can't forecast the future. There's plenty of space in the downtown
area and according to George Wing, he is getting what he feels are
responsible requests for information as a result of the "City in a
Box'. Other businesses have inquired I am sure as to the cost for
them to be downtown, what kind of space they can have fur business,
that sort of thing ".
D. Caesar: "Regardless of the economic situation - and we can always
blame it on the economic situation - people are always going to
blame the Redevelopment Department for tearing up the downtown and
making it beautiful but with no retail outlets downtown. Isn't
there going to have to be much more of an effort to attract people
downtown before you start remodelling, making cosmetic changes to the
rest of the Mall etc ?"
Both Mr. Wiggins and Mr. Brownell asked Mr. Caesar what kind of efforts
he had in mind. His response was that he didn't know "you are the
Redevelopment department ". He also said, "You are charged with
that, that's what you have to consider before you do anything more
I would think.....".
Gene Evans: "Mr. Chairman, I certainly don't have to defend the
Redevelopment Department but I've heard this line of questioning and
these kinds of attitudes a number of times and I am inclined to
COMM SSIONERS' REGULAR MEETING
Page 11
Frid y, November 19, 1976
8. Ppen discussion, continued....
emind people when they ask these questions, 'do you remember what
t was like before the Redevelopment Department started ... with the
mpty stores and the trash in front of the doorways and nobody
here to sweep it out, is that what we want to go back to ?"
. Caesar: "That was a matter of taking care of maintenance down -
Nn, as far as the trash and stuff.....
. Evans: "But nobody was doing it ".
. Caesar: "There were businesses downtown then but they aren't
here now ".
r. Wiggins: "I think that a big part of our problem is the attitude
f the community - and a big part of the attitude of the community
s the responsibility of the media, you have a large part in de-
ermining attitudes ".
Caesar: "The community isn't going to put stores downtown ".
r. Wiggins: "Part of that is reflected by the bias of the guy who
s doing the reporting ". Several of those present followed this
omment with an "amen ".
r. Caesar: "I recorded your statements, those of Mr. Nimtz and yours
D. Wiggins) and they are going to go on the air with slight editing
or time limitations only and the essence of what you say has always
been put forward to the people with no bias on my part whatsoever -
nd I dislike that kind of comment. I report the facts as you present
hem here."
evin Butler: "Dan, I think that you opened though with a couple
uestions with respect to your analysis of and impression of, what
ublic opinion is ".
r. Caesar: "I present the questions in order to gain answers ".
r. Wiggins: "But these questions which start out 'have you stopped
eating your wife...' it kind of puts you in a box you know ".
r. Butler: "I am not so sure that the public generally is blaming
he Redevelopment Department."
r. Caesar: "Who else ?"
r. Butler: "I don't know ".
Evans: "Why does the public have to blame anybody ?"
COM ISSIONERS' REGULAR MEETING
Pag 12
Fri ay. November 19, 1976
8. Open discussion, continued.....
Ms. Derbeck: "They could blame a Mayor or two ".
Mr. Wiggins: "They do, they do ".
Mr. Lindstaedt said that it seemed we have the best of two worlds
here, the parks and the scenic view which South Bend has improved
over the years but the bottom line that comes to any organization
is parking, no matter how you go about it. The main issue right
here in the downtown area is parking, and how do we get this bond
issue retired and get this white elephant off our backs.
Mr. Caesar said that 'parking" was an issue with Sears officials,
some of whom he talked with personally.
Ms. Derbeck asked whose side he (Mr. Caesar) was on—and he said
he was just making a comment.
The Chair: "Dan, I rhink Don has answered that - they (Sears) like
surface parking and in the downtown area, surface parking is ex-
pensive."
Ms. Derbeck: "I've got to say that we don't know that parking was
the big question, that's what they said ".
r. Wiggins: "I think there are probably emotional values in these
decisions, it's hard to be a completely reasonable person because
people are not machines, and you have to have some feelings cranked
in..."
Mr. Caesar: "Another reason was people are afraid to come downtown
at night, in spite of all the comments that were made about that,
increased foot patrols, etc., that was another prime concern of the
Sears officials, they were losing business because people were afraid
to come downtown ".
r. Wiggins: "I think Sears - and I can understand how it would happen
his way - had cranked South Bend into their projections, along with
very other community they have an interest in. Well, South Bend
is not 'every other community' and we have some differences here and
big part of this difference are the things we have already done
ere to set up the kind of setting - if you please - to drop the
jewel into. Well, the jewel did not fall but the setting is here
onetheless. I think that the attitude of this community - for ex-
ample, the kind of community spirit that came about with the departure
f Studebakers, which was a major blow - things of far less importance
in many other communities have killed the community. This didn't
ill South Bend. The kind of community support that rallied in this
instance, as far as the Sears decision was concerned, was indicative
thought of the kind of community we have and can have. South Bend
COMMI.$SIONERS' REGULAR MEETING
Page 13
..... ............................... ...
Frid y, November 19, 1976
8. (Open discussion, continued....
if the people really believe it - can accomplish about anything
t wants to. This will require a lot of community support. The
eople who want to see the downtown as a major retailing center
hat it was - perhaps in their youth - are 'whistling Dixie' because
here aren't any towns the size of South Bend where it is working
his way."
e Chair: "Dan, in regard to a positive note to bring people down -
wn, one estimate I have seen on the remodelling of the Federal
ilding, is that this will put another 250 to 300 people downtown.
Nr. Lindstaedt: "One year from now we will be opening the Century
Centerand I am wondering what the thinking is on small business in
the area — with our convention center, as far as small stores,
entertainment etc. are concerned. I have talked to some people
who have said ...'well, it's in the evening, we would like to see
this but we can't take the bus, we have no transportation, the
crime situation, and I can agree with Dan, what he said about
the crime situation, these are some of things that are holding up
progress, between now and the opening of the Center, a lot of thought
has to be given to transportation, police protection and the accomo-
dations for these people ".
Dan Caesar: John (Lindstaedt), I am not making an analytical comment,
I am asking questions in order to solicit comment - I am not making
suggestions as to whether they should tear up the streets... ".
Mr. Evans: "But these questions are coming out of your own personal
attitudes.. ".
Mr. Lindstaedt: "I think South Bend is one of the most viable com-
munities in the Middle West as far as transportation center is
concerned and a retailing center - if you look at a map and try to
understand what is going on in Chicago, Gary and Hammond, the de-
terioration that is going on there - I think we have everything in
the world to be proud of. At least South Bend is showing some
progress - the only thing is the negative attitude, not only of
the public but of some of the officials."
Mr. Wiggins: "As long as merchants are serious about their role to
serve the people, as long as we have people we will have merchants ".
Mr. Caesar: "Many of the merchants off camera have strong comments,
negative comments about the downtown, they will not say it on
camera, on camera everything is fine, yes, we believe, but the
bottom line is..they firmly believe down in their hearts that,
'hey, things are really bad, nothing is being done, where is the
leadership ?"
COMMISSIONERS' REGULAR MEETING
Page 14
Frid v, November 19, 1976
8. Open discussion, continued....
. Derbeck: "Like who ?"
. Brownell asked Mr. Caesar what "they" would like done.
r. Caesar: "I don't know what they want done..business men like
r. Robinson: "I think these business men have a certain amount of bias
n their attitudes for the simple reason that they want the community
o furnish everything for them in the operation of their business
nd there is no way. It gets back to this business of the 'free
unch' - and there isn't any. That business with Sears, I don't
hink we had a prayer to begin with, even if we had had Mayor
aley here—because they are involved in forty -nine other shopping
enters with DeBartolo. Now we can all add two and two, we don't have
ny facts or fiction to prove or disprove the darned thing. So what -
ver we had done to get Sears to come down here, I think that parking
hing was just a crutch."
e Chair: "The Chair thanks the public and the press for the positive
mments today and the spirit of optimism."
9. NEXT MEETING
he next regularly scheduled meeting of the Redevelopment Commission NEXT
ill be Friday, December 3, 1976, at 10:00 A.M., E.S.T., in the offices COMMISSIOf
f the Department of Redevelopment. MEETING
12 -3 -76
10. ADJOURNMENT
ere being no further business before the Commission, motion was ADJOURN -
ie for adjournment, at 11:15 a.m., by Mr. Wiggins, seconded by MENT
. Robinson and carried.
, txecutive uirec
(SEAL)
F. Jay Nimt , Pre 0 dent