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HomeMy WebLinkAbout02-11-19 Zoning and Annexation S 3TH8 *p4 ��O I a W `"a x� PFALE 11 86 OFFICE OF THE CITY CLERK KAREEMAH FOWLER, CITY CLERK ZONING &ANNEXATION FEBRUARY 11, 2019 4:46 P.M. Committee Members Present: Oliver Davis, John Voorde, Jo M. Broden Committee Members Absent: Gavin Ferlic Other Council Present: Regina Williams-Preston, Karen White, Jake Teshka, Tim Scott, Sharon L. McBride Other Council Absent: None Others Present: Kareemah Fowler, Graham Sparks, Bob Palmer Presenters: Tim Corcoran, Larry Magliozzi Agenda: Bill No. 19-15- Approval of the City Administration's Efforts to Establish a South Bend Commission and Board of Zoning Appeals Committee Chair Oliver Davis called to order the Zoning and Annexation Committee meeting at 4:46 p.m. He introduced members of the Committee and proceeded to give the floor to the presenters. Bill No. 19-15- Approval of the City Administration's Efforts to Establish a South Bend Commission and Board of Zoning Appeals Tim Corcoran, Director of Planning for the City of South Bend with offices located on the 14th floor of the County-City Building, stated, So, today we bring to you a resolution to allow us to, essentially,begin the hiring process for two(2) staff positions that were budgeted for in this year's budget. That will allow us to start exploring the move of the Plan Commission from, currently the Area Plan Commission, to what would be called the South Bend Plan Commission. To make everyone clear, all this is doing is allowing us to move forward with the hiring process. In the future, there will be an ordinance that would probably be needed. I was speaking to our Legal Department earlier today about what the actual process would be, and it's not too defined in State law. We think it's just an ordinance that would have to be passed, formally, that would establish the Plan Commission. We want to do that later on in the year. Committee Chair Davis interrupted,Because this does not formally establish that moving forward? Mr. Corcoran replied, No. INTEGRITY' SERVICE'ACCESSIBILITY JENNIFER M.COFFIIAN BIANCA L.TIRADO JOSEPH R.MOLNAR CHIEF DEPUTY/DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS DEPUTY/DIRECTOR OF POLICY ORDINANCE VIOLATION CLERK EXCELLENCE I ACCOUNTABILITY I INNOVATION I INCLUSION I EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 1227 W.Jefferson Blvd.I South Bend,Indiana 46601 I p 574.235.9221 I f 574.235.9173 I www.southbendin.gov CITY OF SOUTH BEND I OFFICE OF THE CLERK Committee Chair Davis followed up, That's the issue that I wanted to have clarified. Ok, I'm at peace. Go ahead. I'm at peace. Mr. Corcoran continued(referencing a presentation which is available in the City Clerk's Office), So, why establish a Plan Commission for South Bend? Philosophically, we believe that South Bend citizens should be making decisions for South Bend. We believe the focus on both the rules and ordinances we pass, the City's goals and objectives are probably best suited to have those decisions made by South Bend residents. Simply put, we think the best people able to make those decisions for the City are the people of South Bend. This is in the best interest of both the City and the resident. This resolution only allows us to progress to the hiring process. As I just discussed, this resolution does not initiate the Plan Commission. We will come back at a future date with an ordinance amendment for the Plan Commission itself and I will get that toward the end of the presentation. He went on,We feel that having the Plan Commission as a City Department or within Community Investment will help us streamline and balance the planning and development process. We want to strengthen and develop the synergies between our economic development department, long- term strategic planning, which is what we do right now, and the plan review process which is in the building department. Right now, some of those things work but we feel they could work better when all of those people are more or less in the same room or right next to each other. This is also about balancing competing interests when it comes to things like the difference between economic development and any rezoning in a neighborhood. So strategic planning, just to explain, for instance is like the neighborhood plan you were talking about today. Economic and business development is usually when a developer or maybe a neighborhood organization, as well, comes to us with a particular project that they would like to see happening in their neighborhood or within the City. The plan review process is when there is,what I call complying development, something that already meets the use of the particular zone, and that goes straight to the Building Department. At the moment, Community Investment doesn't see those as readily as we do for rezoning. So, while we have access to the Building Department's document system, we are not necessarily involved in looking at the day-to-day building of things that comply with the current zoning ordinance. He continued, So, what this does allow us to do is help shape those things, a little bit, as well. And even help push in complying development, to help make it better than what the zoning ordinance allows it to do.We know the zoning ordinance is kind of a blunt instrument and it is not very subtle sometimes. So, this will help us work with that. The last part here is the Planning Department initiative. So,over the last few years we've been coming to you with a series of quick fixes. There has been six (6) of them to date and a lot of these quick fixes have targeted things where we've been granting variances almost all the time. There are also a lot of silly rules that were developed or carried over in 2004, which is when our zoning ordinance took effect, and we wanted to bring those things up-to-date. We did a lot of things that have helped us reduce the number of variances and even some of the rezoning's as well. I think we are starting to see some of that smooth out, which has been good to see. We intend to bring about five (5) more sets of quick fixes to you before the summer just to round that out before we get to what is the complete zoning ordinance overhaul. He went on, So, this brings me to the question, why now? You know, why do this now? We have worked really well with Larry and his staff at the Area Plan Commission for at least since I've EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY j INNOVATION INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 227 W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend,Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f 574.235.9173 TTD 574.235.5567 www.southbendin.gov 2 CITY OF SOUTH BEND OFFICE OF THE CLERK been here, and I believe probably since before my time and we really appreciate all the hard work they've done. But, with the uptick of development in the City and the different priorities we have in our neighborhoods, and the different development pressures that come with that, we think it's important that the City get these things done right and with the City's objectives in mind. The Historic Preservation Commission, for instance, is an example where we brought a County Department into the City. I think it's been working more effectively than it had been while it was in the County. We also wonder, potentially, with the circuit breaker happening in 2020, whether or not the staff will have the same capacity to deliver the same level of service. That is not to say they wouldn't be doing it as best as they can, but again, I think it is one (1) of these things where we feel we have a lot of the talent in house and, with the new staff, we will be able to provide that level of service we are accustomed to and, in many ways, help the County deliver a better quality of service to the unincorporated areas and the smaller towns, as well. He continued, The zoning ordinance overhaul, for instance, and this (referencing a slide in the presentation) is an example of our zoning ordinance to date, this is one (1) of our key initiatives this year. One(1) of the things we've analyzed in the past was not only whether or not some of the rules were really wrong, and we've been working on that, but the usability and readability of the document is,well, as you can see, not great. So, Mike Divita who is well-known here has come to you with different fixes to the ordinance. He's been working very diligently and also with members of the Area Plan Commission, the consultant we've hired and myself to start relooking at how this is. So, it goes from something like that (referencing the presentation) to this (referencing a new slide in the presentation).We want to get something much more visual that shows people the intent behind each of the districts. We want to make it more graphic by using more charts and diagrams and really find the best practice zoning ordinance that we can. He went on, So, we've looked far and wide at what other communities have done and have taken the best things from other communities while tuning it for the City of South Bend. We will have a very unique document that is honed to the South Bend environment. If people want to copy it, great, but it probably won't work for them because it is for us. It, too, is a living document. When we see something that is wrong, we want to fix it as fast as possible. That is one(1) of the things. All zoning ordinances should be a living document. Our current one (1) has had various fixes or amendments to it up until the last couple of years. We want to see this as something that keeps evolving over time. He continued, In terms of staff capacity, the Planning Department already makes a lot of recommendations you see in your packets and we will continue to do that. The quick fixes really have reduced a lot of zonings and variance requests. The new staff will help us fill some of the day-to-day administrative needs and what we intended is for the new staff to actually help with the zoning ordinance overhaul. So, they will be intimately involved with the update of the document as well as creating the processes and procedures that happen behind the scenes so that,day one(1) when the Commission begins,the staff are already up to speed, and they aren't learning on the fly. We also had a meeting with other City departments including the Legal Department and IT. We wanted to measure what the affect will be on each of those departments and we will continue working with the Area Plan Commission to help those departments understand any impacts that might come. That is part of that internal working group. Also, there are fees the Area Plan Commission collects and last year, I don't know the total and they don't make the department revenue neutral, but it could certainly help offset the cost of one (1) of the positions or maybe the extra hours that maybe one(1) of our lawyers has to put in. Something along those lines. EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY INNOVATION INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 1227 W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend,Indiana 46601 p 574 235 9221 f 574.235.9173 TTD 574.235.5567 vwwv.southbendin.gov 3 SCITY OF SOUTH BEND I OFFICE OF THE CLERK He went on, Finally, and I won't get into much of this, but the Plan Commission composition is dictated by State law. It is very similar to a lot of other Boards we have. There are nine (9) members.The Council appoints one(1),the Board of Park Commissioners one(1),Board of Public Works one (1), the City Engineer one (1), and then the Mayor would appoint five (5) citizen members. The Board of Zoning Appeals is similar but there are only five (5) members total. The Mayor appoints three (3) citizen members. Then there is one (1) from Council and one (1) appointed by the Plan Commission.There are some different regulations around that which we can get into later. Regarding timeframe, we would like to hire the new staff as soon as possible. We are in the process and look to have a draft ordinance probably sometime around May of this year. During that time, we are also doing an external and internal legal review. So, we've hired an external lawyer who is well versed in Indiana Zoning Law the type of zoning document we are creating. He has been engaged and he is currently reviewing things as we are putting it together. We hope it is adopted around September of this year. That is what we are aiming for. We can then get into Commissioner selection and training some time between October and December because there are a lot of things, and Larry already does this, but we get someone to come up and train them on the criteria of what to look for when making decisions. Ultimately, we hope this would all take effect on January 1st, 2020. That is the overview of the resolution. Committee Chair Davis asked, Is our Council attorney included in those discussions? Mr. Corcoran replied, Absolutely. I had a meeting with Stephanie and Aladean. Oh, I'm sorry, your attorney. Yeah, no. Sorry, Bob, I have not yet invited you. Committee Chair Davis stated, I would like for him to be included so we know things all the way from the beginning and he doesn't have to play catch up. The second(2°d)thing on that,the issues that could be quick fixes, if you could send them to us as soon as possible, so we can look at that early and we can spread them over and not have them all jammed in. Mr. Corcoran replied, Of course, we intend to give you time to review. Committee Chair Davis continued,Yeah,but since we already have an idea of what the quick fixes are,just let us know so that way we can already start looking at them and processing them in our minds as soon as possible. From that standpoint, those are the key issues that I would like to see. I'm glad we are aiming for May to have that. I was concerned, in my original comments, that we were trying to get both of them, all, in the same shot. It makes sense and when this whole thing was talked about earlier,it said everything was going to kick off in the summer. It makes sense to me starting it January 1 instead of the middle of the year when we are doing all that kind of stuff. So, I like the timeframe much better than how it was originally presented. So, I appreciate this kind of framework and I'm all in agreement with that. I just wanted to make sure the Committee and the Council is up to date on things early and that our attorney is included. Committeemember John Voorde stated, I'll just state this once, finally, and not again. I instinctively have a problem with this. It is like the Brexit of Area Plan Commissions, or something. Instead of looking for intergovernmental cooperation, which the current Area Plan Commission provides with the exception of Mishawaka. It seems like maybe all these things are needed in terms of the new visual approach and the streamlining of the process and those kinds of things. I can see where all of that is an aid to economic development and tailor-made to our specific EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY INNOVATION INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 227W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend,Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f 574.235.9173 I TTD 574.235.5567 www.southbendin.gov 4 CITY OF SOUTH BEND OFFICE OF THE CLERK needs, but it is too bad we can't somehow, and maybe it's an impossible task, I don't know, but it is too bad we can't put our heads together with the County and make sense of this for everybody and upgrade it together. I like the idea of things coming together and, these are all pipe dreams I suppose, but intergovernmentally, it would be nice if there was one (1) Human Resources Department for the entire County. It would be nice if there was one(1)purchasing department and things like that. So,when I see things fragmenting, like in this case, instead of coming together the way the Building Department would, I wonder if we are missing an opportunity or if we are stepping back. Mr. Corcoran replied, Yeah, and I appreciate that perspective. I think in some ways, it allows us departments to refocus in a way that allows us to do the things we do best for the communities that we directly serve. Committee Chair Davis interjected, I would say, I concur with a lot of things Councilmember Voorde just shared. I mean, I've served on that Committee for the last five(5)years of my life and I've gotten some grey hairs from that Committee but at the same time it's been highly enlightening, more than probably almost anything else on the Common Council. I really appreciate it hearing from the County people and some of the other cities. You really get a flavor of how we all fit into the same picture. I know Mishawaka has their own, there are a lot concerns I have with that. I don't really see, personally, the outcry for it. I see where we can do all of these things and still have it. I was trying to be in my best mind when I first(1st)heard it to see how this rolls but I don't necessarily see the big push because having the value from the McNamara's and that whole crowd, you're talking about forty (40) plus years of experience of what they have had. Each one (1) of these guys have been there and the ladies that are there, it's been amazing to hear their input. And so, it's not that we can't choose some of them. You know,to have it only South Bend people, boy, I feel like there is a going to be a drop off of expertise that comes in,depending on how it's chosen. So, I concur with where you are with that. Committeemember Voorde stated, I have one (1) quick question for Larry. You've been at this a lot of years. Do you share any of these concerns or viewpoints? Larry Magliozzi, Director of the Area Plan Commission with offices located on the 11th floor of the County-City Building, clarified, Specifically and relative to what? Committeemember Voorde followed up, Well, just the overall fragmentation. I think everyone would concur we need to update the zoning ordinance and the process we have to make it more expeditious for economic development and all those kinds of good things but, I don't know. It's just an uncomfortable feeling on my part that it may be a step in the wrong direction. Mr. Magliozzi replied, I don't know if I would couch it in a wrong or a right direction. The Area Plan Commission is a voluntary membership. You have to go back to the mid 1960's on why you created the Area Plan Commission. We all know what was happening back then that prompted that to happen. Committee Chair Davis interrupted, Some people may not know. What was that, in a nut shell? Mr. Magliozzi replied, Well, I was still in grade school, too. But anyway, after the demise of Studebaker and the population was decreasing in our county overall, there was a real effort by EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY INNOVATION 1 INCLUSION 1 EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 1227 W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend,Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f 574.235.9173 TTD 574.235.5567 vwwv.southbendin.gov 5 CITY OF SOUTH BEND OFFICE OF THE CLERK community leaders across the county to shrink. Duplications of staffs was something that was atop of everyone's mind.I think that kind of fits in with what you're saying.There was a push to provide efficiencies to try and get the community moving to the next level of where this community was going. That is the velocity of the Area Plan Commission. And over the years, when the Plan Commission first (1St) started, it was an organization that did everything. I mean, we went after HUD grants back then, we had private contractors and consultants for plans, and we were actually the cog at that point. Then it went into the 1970's, the community decided to go in another direction, so they created MACOG. That took a big chuck out of the Plan Commission. Then the Building Department was still separate for a long time and then Code Enforcement, the City and the County. The Plan Commission started to lose some of the efficiencies,really,because it was a County agency and it is funded by the County. So, you, the City, were at the mercy of the budget process and the combination of some of the activities, the County started funding for other things like comprehensive plans. It kind of lost the effect and has been for a while. He continued, So now we are up to today, I mean, we can have a philosophical discussion of whether it is right or wrong for you. It has been right for Mishawaka as you mentioned, and they seem to be doing fine. The advantage you would have with staying a member of the Plan Commission is the cost. Our services are roughly $300,000 plus and that is pure staff cost. Now, we keep the fees, but the fees don't anywhere near offset our cost on that. The other thing is, I think, by having a staff that is truly county-wide, we see everything. We offer a true apolitical service to our county. We really look at the issue purely and I think we've done that pretty well. I'm not saying you're going to lose that but those are really two (2) main advantages we have. There are a lot of Plan Commissions in Indiana, sixteen (16) to eighteen (18) give or take, and most of those are in the smaller counties. Really, the next two (2) counties that have Plan Commissions our size would be Tippecanoe and West Lafayette. Once you get past those two (2) and ours, those are really rural communities. Some are growing but really, I'm neutral on this. If you stay, you stay, if you leave, you leave. Tim mentioned some advantages for us as a staff. Roughly fifty percent(50%)of our workload would go away but I have plenty of stuff to do to fill that void. That took a little convincing on the County Council's part but it's really what is best for the City of South Bend. I'm neutral on that and I see both sides of it. Committee Chair Davis stated, I'm glad you asked him that and I'm glad we have time. Even though they are going to move forward on some of the things pending our vote today, it's not a decision you just make overnight. I mean, we really have to consider what we heard today and more questions that we can ask because there are some times I've taken on some county issues that I know some of my county people, not so much they were hesitant, but they were in tough positions and I can speak freely because, I mean, whoopity-do. And vis versa, you know? There were some things said that they can speak freely to that I can't. So, I do understand the idea where we want only South Bend voices on South Bend issues. I clearly see that but at the same time there are some times when you can have people share things that I may not be able to necessarily voice the same way and consider partial or non-partial when, you know, county persons have something to say and nobody can say, well, they aren't a part of my district kind of thing. Yeah, so, that is where the arguments you heard here are real issues. I'm glad you brought it up because it's in my heart, too. Committeemember Jo M. Broden stated, The two (2)positions, the Zoning Administrator and the Zoning Specialist positions, remind me, did we receive those positions' descriptions at budget time? EXCELLENCE j ACCOUNTABILITY INNOVATION INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 227 W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend,Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f 574.235.9173 I I D574.235.5567 www.southbendin.gov 6 ICITYOFSOUTHBEND OFFICE OF THE CLERK Mr. Corcoran replied, Yes. They were a part of the budget. The descriptions and salaries were set at that time. Committeemember Broden requested an updated version of that. She continued, I would suggest with regard to a couple amendments on this, section two (2) mentions the Council's Chair of the Zoning and Annexation Committee related to our discussions earlier about building expertise within the Committee level and then also continuity, I think if we were to look at adding Council Chair and Vice-Chair within that to read, "...the Department shall, with the Council's Chair and Vice-Chair of the Zoning and Annexation Committee..." I think that would help. If you would, please, consider that. I do think, and I appreciate the schedule that you shared here. That is helpful. I do wonder,that was actually one(1)of my questions regarding section three(3) and that is about the tentative schedule. Now that I see it here in plain sight, that helps with my comfort level. In section four(4), "...the Department and Common Council shall work together to ensure that the South Bend Plan Commission..." and should that also read and the Board of Zoning Appeals? "...is properly staffed to implement and administer the South Bend Zoning Ordinance." Shouldn't it be inclusive of both? She continued, And then one (1) thing I guess I hadn't considered heretofore, I'm glad for the previous discussion about the overall cost of the services that we are and have been receiving, I guess I would like some additional information. When we talk about fifty percent (50%) of the work load leaving the Area Plan Commission, I think my immediate thought is,ok,well then,that fifty percent(50%)work load shifts to your department,ok?And then,you know,these new people are onboarding. And I think I've shared those comments before about bandwidth and capacity to be able to absorb that workload. And then two (2), I guess a real kind of down in the weeds thing, is what does that represent in terms of hours? I mean, characterize that for me. Because I think while we could be supportive of this,really at the end of the day,on a petition to petition basis,we want to make sure these advisory services, and that is always something to keep in mind, that capacity will be there and will continue to be there but I think we all should be cognizant of the number of hours that has or,you know, will require. And I appreciate,too,the perspective of what if we were just to update everything and still remain in the Commission?Would that make it easier for the Commission members on the two (2) different entities? Also, how would that impact staff timing? So,just a little bit better gauge for me, and I think for the Council as a whole, on kind of that workload. I like the timing you've put forth here. I like that it's transitional and, frankly, over the balance of this year, but, you know, what does it really mean? She went on,Then, something I had overlooked heretofore is the professional services component in terms of a lawyer. Is that a one (1) for one (1) exchange? What are we anticipating in terms of our budget going forward. So,it kind of gets down to some basic fundamental questions but I want to make sure we're not missing, you know, when we talk benefits of going this direction, I want to make sure that we understand if we go that direction,what are the actual costs that would accrue to the City under this proposal. She continued, And then my last piece is, and maybe it's two (2) part, is, philosophically, South Bend makes decisions by South Bend citizens. I get that and I'm sensitive to that but I'm also sensitive to the role of the public and then also the autonomy and the ability to make decisions independently. I liked your point Councilmember Davis about having served on the Area Plan Commission and, you know,having that ability to speak a little bit more freely to some issues that EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY j INNOVATION INCLUSION ; EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 227 W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend,Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f574.235.9173 I I D574.235.5567 www.southbendin.gov 7 CITY OF SOUTH BEND I OFFICE OF THE CLERK are the Council, that kind of vis versa that you mentioned. I appreciate that. I don't want to lose that and that gets down to while I know that the Plan Commission composition and the BZA composition,is all regulated by law in terms of who serves and who appoints, I really do think the piece about who we ask to serve on this, their qualifications, the acknowledgement of their conflicts they can bring,recusing themselves from decisions, I mean, I think it really gets down to that but also the training that would go in place. Because, what comes to us, I've appreciated the sorting out that happens at the Commission levels, but the information we get, and even though it's a recommendation, I take those seriously and I review them and kind of junk in, junk out, right?The quality of the people who serve on that and who serves on it, and qualifications, I think, really does matter in terms of kind of previewing sort of the tough decisions that we have to consider as a Council. So, I guess a long way of saying is, in some regards with the composition, while it is directed by Indiana Law, qualifications of those appointed individuals, whether it is ours,the Mayors or they are coming from a department, and their training, is so important to their ability to act independently and to also consider public input at that stage and that level before it even comes to Council, you know, as well as staff, right? And the overall plan as a City, to me, it's that convergence of all those things that go on. It's a preview.What are the sticky issues?What are the easy issues? And I appreciate the level of expertise that we do get from somebody who has been a surveyor for thirty (30) years. There are all those levels of expertise that I know I don't have, but I do appreciate that combination where staff input comes and then you have sort of this really public process that enables members with different levels of expertise that I would never have or pretend to have. So,how they're trained and their qualifications,that's big,in my opinion, as to whether or not we will actually get the benefit that we think we will get with regard to this change. Committee Chair Davis stated, I think one (1) thing you shared that Councilmember Voorde alluded to, in terms of this overall partnership we have with the County having some insight in, if we go this way and we have it on our own, I hope we don't go this way for MACOG. I hope we don't go this way with other things and then we start pulling out of every single thing. We could put out of MACOG and we could do that, too, because MACOG, we have people from four (4) different counties sharing ideas that come on different issues. The Western Avenue viaduct, that was stuff from MACOG and we had people from all over the county weighing in on that decision too. And then I weigh in on all the things over there from all these other little towns, some of them I've never been to. Then, I kind of have to go visit them so I can make a halfway decent decision. But, it does force you to get out and see how life is around the whole area because of those meetings. And I was on MACOG for that too, and know you're on that,too, so, I don't want us to have this trend of moving away from all of that when that has been an asset in some ways. At the same time, I do like the idea of South Bend. So, I'm not rushing to that. So, when I saw that time schedule, that has been my biggest hold up. You saw me at the budget time pull this out, kind of thing, because I felt we were rushing too fast to start it in June. There is a whole bunch of change around this table and to throw this into a new Council kind of concept, we have to be real with each other with that, ok? And so, it gives us some chance to look at it. The Council is going to change,the Mayor thing is going to change, whoever it's going to be and all that and then put this into that,is this the best time?Or,should we look at having all those changes in the current system? Is that safer for the benefit of our City given the amount of change we are dealing with at this time in our life? That is something I want everyone to be real with and think about. Councilmember Jake Teshka asked, Mr. Corcoran, do you have,readily available or could you get rather quickly, what the City has paid in terms of fees to the APC over the last year? That would EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY I INNOVATION INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 227W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend,Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f 574.235.9173 TTD574.235.5567 www.southbendin.gov 8 I11 CITY OF SOUTH BEND OFFICE OF THE CLERK be nice just as a comparison as we look at cost,right? I think there are a couple of arguments. One (1) is the philosophical argument, we touched on that. Personally, I think when it comes to the philosophical piece, ultimately, this Council has the final say in any of those decisions anyway. So, what I would be looking towards is efficiencies and if we could do it better, let's do it, right? But, I would like to see some of that data. Committee Chair Davis interjected, And I think that data is important, especially when you're given the fiscal cliff that we are looking at,you know,we have to really examine, is all of that fifty percent (50%) coming back to the City so we have to take care of all of that? That goes into the number of issues you have to look at. I think that is where they were when they started. Because of the financial situation of our City, so, I'm glad you shared the history of that. Are we back to the level,per se, or not? So, let's get those numbers and let's see. Ok, we've had our discussion. Committee Chair Davis then opened the floor to members of the public wishing to speak in favor of or in opposition to the legislation. There were none. He then turned the floor back to the Committee for further comment or main motion. Committee Chair Davis stated, We've had a real thorough discussion on this which I'm very pleased about. One (1) other thing I want to say, my very first (1St) question regarding this was about the legal. What I was told, too, I want to remind everybody, when I talked to Stephanie Steele about this earlier, her thought to me, and I haven't gotten any update on this,but they were going to try and do in house and see if they have any of our own attorneys that have expertise when it comes down to zoning issues. Right now,the APC attorney will stay with them, so we will have to see if any of her own staff would have any zoning expertise. Committeemember Voorde made a motion to send Bill No. 19-15 to the full Council with no recommendation. Committee Chair Davis seconded this motion which carried by a voice vote of three (3) ayes. With no further business, Committee Chair Davis adjourned the Zoning and Annexation ittee mee gat 5:27 p.m. ArI o, Submi i d, avis Co jy'I w• :4 EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY INNOVATION INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 227W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend,Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f 574.235.9173 TTD574.235.5567 vvww.southbendin.gov 9