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7. NEW BUSINESS (Cont'd In answer to Ms. Derbeck's various questions on the HAO Program, Mr. Crighton advised that we are not supplying money to HAO; we are not assisting the HAO Program. We are assisting people who demonstrate a need; people who's income is so low that they couldn't get a bank loan if they had to, and also the age barrier. For further answers to the Housing Allowance Program, Mr. Crighton suggested Ms. Derbeck give Mr Charles F. Lennon, Jr., Director of the HAO Program, a call for specific answers she is requesting. Our concern - -our end of the program - -is to assist people 62 years of age and over into a standard'dwelling. Questions raised on the HAO referrals, as the program is referred to as "HAO Referrals Program,'" the Housing Allowance Office can refer people; however, they cannot follow up on the referral if the people they referred received assistance. HAO can follow up if the kinds of referrals they are making are appropriate ones, but cannot ask or find out the specifics. Mr. Crighton advised it is called the "HAO Referrals Program" because "we refer the people to HAO after we are finished with them. The referrals are the other way around." Commissioner Wiggins further added, "Many of these people, and a lot of it has happened with the ones the Department of Redevelop - ment has been associated with, where we had the house brought up to Code, but the people were not able to keep it up to code, can be helped. HAO can be a real advantage in terms of trying to keep the houses up to code as our department has rehabilitated some of the homes; e.g., in the LaSalle Park area, where we have .gone through repairing some of them twice now. The whole purpose of HAO is to keep these things on top once they are there. Mr. John R. Kagel, Executive Director, Downtown South Bend Council, requested to speak as a citizen only, and referred'to Item 7e, on the Agenda, that has been discussed, as an example; also to Item 7d. He discussed the removal of the tub and lavatories, plumbers seal, etc., at great length, and that if the cause is due to inferior work, then whoever did the original work in that fee is_the party that was responsible for it, then I would say "let's start working at the fee, because each week I have been noticing this comes up in your amendment to contracts. Now, I am only speaking as a citizen, but it appears to me if this keeps coming up by the end of the year, we will have a big rip -off, when you totalize each one of these." Mr. Edward F. Soltesz, Chairman, Governmental Coordination Com- mittee of River Bend Plaza Advisory Committee, stated, "Really, Mr. Chairman, it does bring up a point. When these jobs are done and the inspector, whoever it may be, must have a hairy time trying to find out whether the seal was put back properly -- whether all the piping or drains were put back properly. You can put down all the tile that you want; you can make all the changes of subfloor, but if the plumbing work isn't put together in the right manner, you are - 12 -