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CITY OF SOUTH BEND OFFICE OF THE CLERK don't want this to be taken wrong, but I'm having a little bit of difficulty understanding. My understanding is when you look at flat fees or taxes that are flat,to me,you're going at that because you're trying to get at something simpler that doesn't get weighed down by a lot of variables and in this case a lot of staff time. Or, if you get it wrong, you have members of the public circling us in this huge appeals process. I guess in my mind, if I remember your earlier presentation, the national average is seven dollars ($7) or what is eight dollars ($8)? Mr. Horvath replied, No, it's less. It is five dollars ($5) a month. Councilmember Broden then asked, And the State average for Indiana? Mr. Horvath replied, It is actually the same. It's a little over five dollars ($5). Councilmember Broden continued, Ok, so in some regard, because of timing reasons and all the stuff that would need to go on this sort of impervious surface model, to me, we're almost adding, I don't want to say an income-based rate because flat fees, in some ways are getting us, but the national and statewide average is five dollars($5) so we are actually doing a nod to income-based at the two dollars($2),in my opinion. I know others feel differently but my next thought is to take that further. What would income-based rates look like? Are we as a Council thinking one dollar ($1) would get it done? Fifty cents ($0.50)? Or twenty cents ($0.20)? If you push that as far as it could possibly go, we could eliminate the very thing we are trying to create here to alleviate some of our City's issues. We need to be careful. I think we know the national average, the statewide average, and if Council votes in support of this, we are coming in at something that is far off those averages. So in some ways, I mean to me, we are being responsive and are acknowledging our residents' incomes already in approving this at the two dollar($2)rate. That is kind of my take on it. Councilmember John Voorde stated,This thought just came to me. Maybe you could structure this the way the County Auditor structures exemptions.There is a senior exemption but that is income- based. It's an opportunity but they would have to file to take advantage of it. So it would leave the burden on you to do the checking and that kind of thing but it works for property taxes and it could potentially work for rates without potentially putting a whole big burden on the City. It would also put a little responsibility on the property owner. Mr. Horvath asked, Is that for seniors only though? Or all? Councilmember Voorde replied, Right now it's just for seniors, I believe, yes. I'm just thinking. Mr. Horvath replied,that is helpful and that is part of the thought process going into income-based rates and that is trying to find a system that's easy to implement so you're not using the dollars to hire staff to run the program. That doesn't make sense. We want the breaks to go to the residents and not to paying for fancy programs. We're going to have a dialogue with United Way because they are doing some income-based stuff already on the heating programs. They've already got income verifications they have to do for that to make sure during the winter months that people's heat stays on, so that's one (1) possibility and that sounds like another possibility. It is our hope that someone has already been doing it and we can do it. EXCELLENCE ACCOUNTABILITY INNOVATION I INCLUSION EMPOWERMENT 455 County-City Building 227 W.Jefferson Bvld South Bend,Indiana 46601 p 574.235.9221 f 574.235.9173 TTD574.235.5567 vwwvv.southbendin.gov 7